My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

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Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by cscscs » Jan 30 2020 1:13am

mewanderinghome wrote:
Jan 28 2020 8:21pm
I read this whole thread, and remember someone else also commenting that the 52v and 48v21ah batteries protrude further from the frame than the 48v17.4ah battery. However, Grace is telling me the battery cases are all the same. Can someone confirm this? I was planning on getting the 48v17.4ah battery because it doesn't protrude, should weigh less, should have enough capacity for me, and saves $130. But if they all protrude on the left, then I might pay the $130 extra for the 52v. I would also be very interested to learn how much the different batteries weigh if someone with each of the 3 battery sizes can "weigh in" on this?
Maybe the 52v case has been redesigned to be taller instead of wider??? But if you look closely in the unboxing video just a few posts ago you can see the extra width of the battery extending outboard of the frame on the left side.

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Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by cscscs » Jan 30 2020 2:00am

mewanderinghome wrote:
Jan 29 2020 3:56am
Next Question TL;DR: Which display to get? Eggrider, Cycle Analyst, or Bafang C240, 500c, or SW102?

What are your thoughts?
I swapped out the stock display (DP C18.UART) for the 500C and like it much better. I found the C18 display obscenely large and vulnerable and the assist buttons were too sensitive and too close together (or otherwise indistinguishable) so I often increased assist when I meant to decrease and vise versa or simply changed assist unintentionally. The 500C is much better in that regard but the buttons are still somewhat indistinguishable (meaning that when focused on the trail, I can't instantly find the correct button). I ended up gluing a small half round rubber button onto the upper button which makes a nice index for my thumb and fixed that issue. I would prefer a form factor like the C240 where the assist selector takes up minimal width real estate on the bar (to make more room for the dropper lever and throttle) and also like the minimalist display that mounts downwind of the bar instead of on top. That said, I don't think the C240 is compatible as it is different comm protocol than the DP C18 (CAN vs UART), but I have made an inquiry with someone who can find out for sure and should know in a couple of days - if it is compatible I would definitely be interested.

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Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by cvin » Jan 30 2020 2:13am

Good info
Thank you

I like the big displays , just want mine to have 9 levels of pas...

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Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by mewanderinghome » Jan 30 2020 12:23pm

cscscs wrote:
Jan 30 2020 1:13am
Maybe the 52v case has been redesigned to be taller instead of wider??? But if you look closely in the unboxing video just a few posts ago you can see the extra width of the battery extending outboard of the frame on the left side.
If my understanding is correct, I think Grace is saying all the batteries stick out on the left, even the lighter, $130-saving 17.4ah, because all the batteries use the same case. Do you have the 17.4 battery, and if so you're saying it doesn't protrude? If so I would definitely go with the 17.4 for smaller form factor as well, but it sounds like barbarossa is also confirming it's likely the same case for all 3 batteries (and apparently he does have the 17.4). If they're the same width case, and it sounds like only 230g difference (thanks barbarossa), then I'll probably pay the extra to go with the 52v...or maybe get crazy and try building my own :shock: (<-- that's me when I cross some leads I shouldn't ; )

Also cscscs, does sound like the C240 won't work, but please let me know when you hear for sure. Otherwise I think I'll start with the 500c display. Thanks :)

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Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by mewanderinghome » Jan 30 2020 12:59pm

amberwolf wrote:
Jan 29 2020 8:23pm
note that the ca has one limitation that for me is severe: it cannot respond to any torque sensor readings until the cranks are moving at 50rpm or more
Yeah it seemed to me that this latest CA can act as a primary display (with temperature power roll-off & a lot of other customizability), if I went to the work of re-routing cabling. If I understand correctly, it seems the CA would be installed inline with the throttle cable, and the brake cutoff cables (one of which I'll probably nix anyway) would then terminate at the CA, not having to go into the downtube. But I'd have to extend the torque and cadence cables (are these one integrated cable?) up to the CA (along with a temp sensor cable). So I'm hoping there's room for another cable in the downtube access hole. I also ordered a gear change sensor that I may or may not use, but I don't know the location of that on the bike (guessing it's some sort of tension sensor inline with shift cable somewhere?), so not sure if that's a cable I'd have to shorten or lengthen.

I thought I saw a CA video that showed how to adjust the torque level at which the CA starts sending go-juice, but you're saying 50 rpm is the minimum? If so I totally agree with you--I want assist from start as long as I'm really bearing down on the pedal and not just resting my foot there. If that's the case, I will likely just get the 500c display to start since it's half the price of the Eggrider, still quite a bit smaller than the stock display, and I don't think I'd have much use for some of the Eggrider features. Only thing I don't like about the 500c is that it has 9 levels of PAS- I'm the opposite in that I just want 5 (less 'shifting' : ) Does anyone know if there's a way to reduce it to fewer levels of assist in the settings?

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Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by barbarossa » Jan 30 2020 3:16pm

mewanderinghome wrote:
Jan 30 2020 12:59pm
and I don't think I'd have much use for some of the Eggrider features
one feature of eggrider v2 i really appreciate is to change/adapt the Bafang controller settings during my rides - ALL Bafang Ultra settings can be changed incl. torque settings (dont forget to power off/on after setting was changed). you need no programming cable or computer anymore. in the end you can adapt your controller settings perfect regarding your personal needs because you dont have longer breaks to connect a computer. also number of PAS levels can be adapted. it also has no silly voltage restriction. you can even set the multiplier of amperage - i need it because of the shunt modded controller - so it even shows the correct wattage/amperage. you can set up to 3 batteries with different max and min voltages and ampere hours - so your percentage is exact. a perfect little display (in combination with a smartphone absolutely perfect) - none of the other mentioned displays will combine all this features for your Bafang Ultra - but of course it is more expensive...

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Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by amberwolf » Jan 30 2020 5:09pm

mewanderinghome wrote:
Jan 30 2020 12:59pm
Yeah it seemed to me that this latest CA can act as a primary display (with temperature power roll-off & a lot of other customizability), if I went to the work of re-routing cabling. If I understand correctly, it seems the CA would be installed inline with the throttle cable, and the brake cutoff cables (one of which I'll probably nix anyway) would then terminate at the CA, not having to go into the downtube. But I'd have to extend the torque and cadence cables (are these one integrated cable?) up to the CA (along with a temp sensor cable).
basically, yes.

you'd also need to figure out how to wire that torque sensor and cadence sensor to the pas connector of the ca v3, including what voltage they require (the torque sensor is probably more than 5v, the cadence is probably 5v), so you can ensure it gets what it needs. the pas ca v3 connector provides 5v and 10v, anything else you'd have to come up with separately.

configuring the sensors in the ca is done per the pas menus, once it's attached and working, and is easy enough but may take iterative experimentation to get it responding the way you want.
I also ordered a gear change sensor that I may or may not use, but I don't know the location of that on the bike (guessing it's some sort of tension sensor inline with shift cable somewhere?), so not sure if that's a cable I'd have to shorten or lengthen.
the gearsensor is basically like the hwbs hidden-wire-brake-sensor, where whenever the gearsensor detects cable movment it gives a pulse to temporarily turn off the motor. (the hwbs stays off once cable moves past a certain point, because it isn't springloaded inside like the gs likely is).

if it's output grounds momentarily then you can just wire it in parallle with the ca's ebrake input. then whenever you shift the ca will momentarily stop providing throttle to the motor...but you would have to have maximum ramping 99.99v/s for throttle off in the ca to ensure it turns throttle off fast enough for it to make any difference to shifting.




I thought I saw a CA video that showed how to adjust the torque level at which the CA starts sending go-juice, but you're saying 50 rpm is the minimum?
i was pretty sure that's the limit, but i can't find a specific post or page in the manual stating this in this way. there are statements that 50rpm is the minimum pas assist start, which is probably why the torque won't start below that either. :? if you have a high-pole-count cadence sensor (i think 24 is the max for the ca?) then it doesn't take much of a rotation to give a 50rpm count into the ca...but it does take some amount of crank rotation before it will start from either torque or cadence sensor.

on a regular bike of regular weight with regular rider you will probably not have any problems because of it...but you'd have to experiment to see if this is sufficient for you.

according to justin_le here they've been trying to change so the torque sensor works by itself, but hadn't done it yet, that was a couple years ago, and the latest firmare (3.13?) i tried it in was no different for me:
viewtopic.php?f=4&t=37964&p=1362554

i haven't even tried to do it in a while; i'm presently not even using the torque at all (tdcm bb) just cadence off that bb sensor, which works reasonably well if not perfectly, once i'm moving (a cadence sensor with more poles would work better, and possibly one that is not on the cranks but instead is on the gearing stages after that might work better, i have an experiment planned to test this, eventually). but i have to startup with the throttle, most of the time. (if i'm on level ground or a very slight downslope i can start pedaling and it will start moving and provide a very minimum assist, enough to keep moving at that speed, barely, but it won't accelerate and allow me to be able to pedal fast enough to get it going any faster, and i have to use a throttle blip to get going. if i'm on a little better downslope, still extremely slight, it'll get going normally. if i'm upslope at all, i can't start it up without the throttle.)



afaik the original idea behind the minimum was that this would help prevent a bike from just taking off under you when you stand on the pedals at a stop to ready for startup, or when mounting a bike, etc. but having it as a hard-coded limit makes it problematic for a number of usage scenarios, which while rare are not unheard of. :( on regular bikes with regular riders under regular conditions none of this matters much, but it does matter for some, and for unusual cases like mine.

the only workaround i know of (other than just using the throttle to get going) at present is to have a "startup" button or switch somewhere that either provides a fake cadence signal to the ca so torque works as if you were already going, or provides a throttle signal of sufficient voltage to get you going, wehther or not you actually ahve a throttle on the system (temporarily bypassing the ca's actual throttle output, or providing a signal to the ca's throttle in connector, whichever is required based on your other ca settings).

If so I totally agree with you--I want assist from start as long as I'm really bearing down on the pedal and not just resting my foot there.


in the ca, you can "zero" the torque sensor at whatever level you want, so you can either zero it without feet on there, or zero it with them, but this would only be really useful if it would initially respond to torque without rotation.

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Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by cscscs » Jan 31 2020 12:46am

mewanderinghome wrote:
Jan 30 2020 12:23pm
cscscs wrote:
Jan 30 2020 1:13am
Maybe the 52v case has been redesigned to be taller instead of wider??? But if you look closely in the unboxing video just a few posts ago you can see the extra width of the battery extending outboard of the frame on the left side.
If my understanding is correct, I think Grace is saying all the batteries stick out on the left, even the lighter, $130-saving 17.4ah, because all the batteries use the same case. Do you have the 17.4 battery, and if so you're saying it doesn't protrude? If so I would definitely go with the 17.4 for smaller form factor as well, but it sounds like barbarossa is also confirming it's likely the same case for all 3 batteries (and apparently he does have the 17.4). If they're the same width case, and it sounds like only 230g difference (thanks barbarossa), then I'll probably pay the extra to go with the 52v...or maybe get crazy and try building my own :shock: (<-- that's me when I cross some leads I shouldn't ; )

Also cscscs, does sound like the C240 won't work, but please let me know when you hear for sure. Otherwise I think I'll start with the 500c display. Thanks :)
My 17.5 battery came off a FLX Blade so might be different from what Frey is providing.

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Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by barbarossa » Jan 31 2020 1:20am

cscscs wrote:
Jan 31 2020 12:46am
mewanderinghome wrote:
Jan 30 2020 12:23pm
cscscs wrote:
Jan 30 2020 1:13am
Maybe the 52v case has been redesigned to be taller instead of wider??? But if you look closely in the unboxing video just a few posts ago you can see the extra width of the battery extending outboard of the frame on the left side.
If my understanding is correct, I think Grace is saying all the batteries stick out on the left, even the lighter, $130-saving 17.4ah, because all the batteries use the same case. Do you have the 17.4 battery, and if so you're saying it doesn't protrude? If so I would definitely go with the 17.4 for smaller form factor as well, but it sounds like barbarossa is also confirming it's likely the same case for all 3 batteries (and apparently he does have the 17.4). If they're the same width case, and it sounds like only 230g difference (thanks barbarossa), then I'll probably pay the extra to go with the 52v...or maybe get crazy and try building my own :shock: (<-- that's me when I cross some leads I shouldn't ; )

Also cscscs, does sound like the C240 won't work, but please let me know when you hear for sure. Otherwise I think I'll start with the 500c display. Thanks :)
My 17.5 battery came off a FLX Blade so might be different from what Frey is providing.

perhaps everyone is right. the FLX blade uses a Reention Dorado Plus that is also available as a 505mm version with 65 cells max. -> 13s5p = 5x3.5Ah= 17.5Ah at 48v
dorado_plus.JPG
dorado_plus.JPG (65.45 KiB) Viewed 1948 times
but Frey -i think- always uses a Reention Dorado Max (of course installing fewer cells in the bigger case for the 48v/17.5Ah version is never a problem):
dorado_max.JPG
dorado_max.JPG (68.1 KiB) Viewed 1948 times
anyways the Dorado Plus version looks like a smart alternative for the bigger Dorado Max battery case. which brings me to a new idea for my next battery built :lol:
@cscscs: you simply took your Dorado Plus FLX battery and it matched with the Frey frame original mounts !?

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Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by cscscs » Jan 31 2020 2:03am

barbarossa wrote:
Jan 31 2020 1:20am
@cscscs: you simply took your Dorado Plus FLX battery and it matched with the Frey frame original mounts !?
I swapped everything over to a bare AM1000 frame, but I suspect the end caps are the same regardless.

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Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by barbarossa » Jan 31 2020 2:51am

cscscs wrote:
Jan 31 2020 2:03am
barbarossa wrote:
Jan 31 2020 1:20am
@cscscs: you simply took your Dorado Plus FLX battery and it matched with the Frey frame original mounts !?
I swapped everything over to a bare AM1000 frame, but I suspect the end caps are the same regardless.
aahhh… i remember you bought a naked Frey frame. and now i understand : you reused the original Dorado Plus plastic mounts and your FLX Dorado Plus battery and it all matched in your empty Frey frame. a very useful information !!! thank you. i think a new project is born for me. i plan to test Samsung 40T INR21700 35A cells. Dorado Plus case is smaller which is nice and would probably be good for 57x 21700 cells (19s3p) which will provide not much range but a good punch for smaller ranges.
buying a new Reention battery case all mounts are included anyways so this would be no problem too. and this Reention cases are cheap :lol:
interesting… thank you for your input :D

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Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by 18650 » Jan 31 2020 4:28am

Did anybody buy the Frey EX? Could you share your experience? (is there a separate thread for that, I couldn't find one?)

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Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by bugnut » Jan 31 2020 11:07pm

Just an FYI, there is now a FREY forum on Electric Bike Review (EBR) under the Discussion by Brand & User Reviews. I'm hoping it brings more interest in the brand. While doing my own research into E Bikes it was this thread here that convinced me to purchase from FREY. So glad I did as I love the Bike.

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Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by Tjeska » Feb 03 2020 2:06am

Does anyone know if the Ultra Max motor controller does start to cut power to the drive when the battery goes to a lower Soc?
I know you can program the "Low Battery Protection", but I would like to know if the controller also starts cutting the max. available power linear if the Soc goes below a specific %?

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Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by Andy123 » Feb 03 2020 7:43am

Hi Tjeska
I tried to set higher limit for Low Battery Protection (14S battery with Samsung 35E) and the highest limit , that can be set ,is only 44 V. Higher is over limit. These voltage 44 V is only about 6% of the rest capacity for 14S pack (Samsung 35E or Samsung 50E). I suppose ,if the battery voltage drops, the BMS will disconnect the battery earlier than the controller with its lower limit.

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Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by Tjeska » Feb 08 2020 11:29am

I dont mean the Low Battery Protection setting in the bafang configuration tool, i know you can change that.
Mine on 39V (3V per cell in my 13S pack).
My question was about the way the Bafang controller reacts when the state of charge goes near that point, does it start to cut power linear or does it just hard cut when it reaches the "Low Battery Protection" voltage?


I tried to go tubeless today with the supplied rim's & tires combo that comes stock on the AM1000, worked flawless.
Just apply good rim tape, new valve and sealed even without any sealant in the tire :lol:

Very happy with the way it drives now, just needed to add one volume spacer in the Lyric and now its perfect!

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Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by Hardcore » Feb 08 2020 1:14pm

I've encountered hard cut-offs when reaching the controller's LVC, no decrease in power except for the feeling of getting a drained battery. Simply turning it off and on made me continue in a lower power setting.

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Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by robocam » Feb 08 2020 4:07pm

I'm so happy you found this thread useful! It makes me happy to see that :)
bugnut wrote:
Jan 31 2020 11:07pm
Just an FYI, there is now a FREY forum on Electric Bike Review (EBR) under the Discussion by Brand & User Reviews. I'm hoping it brings more interest in the brand. While doing my own research into E Bikes it was this thread here that convinced me to purchase from FREY. So glad I did as I love the Bike.

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Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by bugnut » Feb 09 2020 11:37am

robocam wrote:
Feb 08 2020 4:07pm
I'm so happy you found this thread useful! It makes me happy to see that :)
bugnut wrote:
Jan 31 2020 11:07pm
Just an FYI, there is now a FREY forum on Electric Bike Review (EBR) under the Discussion by Brand & User Reviews. I'm hoping it brings more interest in the brand. While doing my own research into E Bikes it was this thread here that convinced me to purchase from FREY. So glad I did as I love the Bike.
Definitely the best and most information on FREY is contained in this thread. I thank you for starting this thread. I must say that it had to take some balls to be one of the first to buy from them. At the time they were a relatively unknown company.
Thanks again

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Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by Pauldugie » Feb 09 2020 12:44pm

After all the positive comments about Frey bikes, I’m surprised they don’t show up on any of the best ebikes of 2020 lists. I’m purchasing an AM1000 after doing a good deal of research and I didn’t find a better bang for the buck ebike anywhere. I just wish they had reps here in the USA so service was available and they could do something about the shipping costs. I missed the group buy so I chose the sea shipping option that reduced the cost to $550. It’s still way less expensive than a comparably specked name brand bike.

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Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by Hammer3er » Feb 12 2020 2:33pm

hi Guys
there are still problems
with rock shox serial number.
on the Sram web site?

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Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by Hardcore » Feb 12 2020 6:12pm

nope, the problem was solved. Front suspension can be searched on the sram website, rear suspension cannot.
https://trailhead.rockshox.com/en/search/

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Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by kson » Feb 13 2020 7:55pm

Reading through the thread it appears the controller tuning isn’t quite perfect from the factory, has anyone tinkered with settings and able to share? I have a HT1000 on order.

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Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by Hardcore » Feb 14 2020 7:14am

Hi Kson,

I've had my am1000 for over 2 years and recently I drove their 2019 bikes but also the EX and I can tell you their controllers have certainly had a good tune. The earlier version was a bit abrupt, but the motor response is, of course in the end, subject to personal taste. The great thing is, you can tune it. There was a thread started some time ago and got revived just recently: viewtopic.php?f=28&t=93000&start=25

Cheers

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Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by scrambler » Feb 20 2020 2:00pm

Hi there,
Has anyone attempted to install a Rohloff on a Frey AM1000 or CC?
Thanks

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