1.7kg 1000w mid drive

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Grantmac   10 kW

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1.7kg 1000w mid drive

Post by Grantmac » Nov 25 2019 1:35pm

https://www.lightest.bike/

If this isn't Indegogo vaporware it could be a total game changer in the DIY arena.

SlowCo   100 kW

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Re: 1.7kg 1000w mid drive

Post by SlowCo » Nov 25 2019 2:04pm

Looks very good. Let's see how the campaign goes.

Grantmac   10 kW

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Re: 1.7kg 1000w mid drive

Post by Grantmac » Nov 25 2019 3:15pm

I'm very tempted by the battery less option for 400euro. Then shop for a frame that can fit it inside the triangle since I'm not sure that casing can much of a hit.

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E-HP   100 kW

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Re: 1.7kg 1000w mid drive

Post by E-HP » Nov 25 2019 7:58pm

So is it plastic?

Grantmac   10 kW

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Re: 1.7kg 1000w mid drive

Post by Grantmac » Nov 26 2019 11:29am

I'm guessing some sort of glass reinforced polymer, as is common for firearms. Although how that dissipates heat is definitely a question.

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ferret   1 kW

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Re: 1.7kg 1000w mid drive

Post by ferret » Nov 26 2019 11:58am

I'm guessing the picture shows a 3D-printed polymer prototype.

...and that heat dissipation of such a small case is not enough for 1 KW continuous use, even if it was made from Aluminium.

Avner.
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Deafcat   100 W

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Re: 1.7kg 1000w mid drive

Post by Deafcat » Nov 26 2019 10:54pm

Heat dissipation and deflection is fairly good on Glass Reinforced Nylon (in molded parts anyway), which is why it's used in so many engine components... It can handle under-the-hood temperatures, should be fine for an electric motor casing.

Of course, if it's 3D printed, this will change a bit. The closest printed materials I'm aware of in this kind of performance, are Onyx and Onyx FR, both from Markforged respectively. These printed composites (nylon-carbon blend, with or without flame resistance additives) are perfectly capable of similar operating temperature ranges, and exhibit similar environmental performances, albeit with somewhat reduced resistance to water ingress: mold cast glass-nylon has quite good water tightness, whereas printed Onyx will slowly absorb some, and pass thru hollow infill (thus it's mostly geometry dependent). I'm not certain of the water-tightness of Onyx FR (yet to use that product), I would hazard a guess it exhibits improved performance in this regard.

The water barrier issue is not really a problem though, since it's possible to add a second material inside to completely seal against moisture... in fact, sections of a material like Markforged White Nylon can be 3D printed and incorporate orings to complete the water protection to a high degree.

As for Avners argument about 1kW being impossible in this tiny packaging, I'm inclined to agree, I don't see how a 1.7kg unit could do that reliably (1200W peak? that's a tuned out BBS02B). I'd love to see them shoot for it though, it never hurts to push the limit!

Grantmac   10 kW

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Re: 1.7kg 1000w mid drive

Post by Grantmac » Nov 27 2019 11:54am

The 1kw isn't out of the question, look at CYC pulling +5kw out of a motor weighing perhaps 3x that much not to mention the Tangent builds. I'm sure that keeping it spinning is part of the equation so gear selection will be important.
I'm interested to see how much reduction it has and what sort of noise level we are talking. Small pinions tend to be a bit noisey but if it's less than Cyclone loud I can live with it.

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Pilot Engineer   100 mW

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Re: 1.7kg 1000w mid drive

Post by Pilot Engineer » Jan 23 2020 6:27am

HI, I'm Matteo, founder of Bikee Bike which developed the " Lightest" ebike kit. I'm here to give you further info and to answer your questions.

About the shields: those are currently made in Aluminum alloy, but looking at the magnesium option as well. We could shave off additional 200g.

We tested the 1000W system against a BBSHD and it's superior in both top speed and acceleration. Peak current draw we tested so far is 1700W. Top speed: 50km/h with a 12T sprocket on a full suspension MTB 27.5".

We just released the new video: you can check it out here



The system is silent, way more than a Cyclone, it has the first reduction stage in steel - plastic and sinewave controller. The small sprocket is not making particular sound unless it's not well aligned.

The system has both torque sensor and throttle override by which you can adjust the assistance on the fly.

I'd love to have your feedback about the system.

All the best,
Thanks
Matteo

1N4001   100 W

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Re: 1.7kg 1000w mid drive

Post by 1N4001 » Jan 23 2020 10:20am

Do you need a crank with freewheel for this? Can you use any kind of battery? What's the maximum voltage?

spiros   10 W

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Re: 1.7kg 1000w mid drive

Post by spiros » Jan 24 2020 4:36am

Hi Matte
Are you Italian?
Anyway I need to test one of this motors....
When will be possible buy a couple of them?
Thank you

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Pilot Engineer   100 mW

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Re: 1.7kg 1000w mid drive

Post by Pilot Engineer » Jan 24 2020 5:02am

1N4001 wrote:
Jan 23 2020 10:20am
Do you need a crank with freewheel for this? Can you use any kind of battery? What's the maximum voltage?
Yes, there's a crank with freewheel included in the kit. Yes, you can use any kind of battery, just mind the voltage settings of the different versions. The 1000W version comes with the ASI BAC800 so the maximum voltage is 72V.

spiros   10 W

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Re: 1.7kg 1000w mid drive

Post by spiros » Jan 24 2020 6:09am

So the 1000watt version will be with an external controller and the others with a built in controller?

spiros   10 W

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Re: 1.7kg 1000w mid drive

Post by spiros » Jan 24 2020 6:18am

I'm excited with this motor :bolt: :bolt: :bolt: a kinematic with a high pivot point will provide better absorption of shock and vibration and excellent grip for the rear wheel. Like many modern DH bikes does.

john61ct   1.21 GW

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Re: 1.7kg 1000w mid drive

Post by john61ct » Jan 24 2020 12:27pm

I don't understand the

"very efficient on hills thanks to the direct drive".

Also, could the extra power of the 1000W version be devoted to extra torque for getting heavy loads up longer steeper hills, rather than increasing the top speed?

Bigwheel   100 W

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Re: 1.7kg 1000w mid drive

Post by Bigwheel » Jan 24 2020 6:06pm

Looks good Matteo! When do you think they will be ready to ship? Are the batteries 21700 cell or 18650? Not clear if it has gone through the Indiegogo campaign cycle yet?

Hillhater   100 GW

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Re: 1.7kg 1000w mid drive

Post by Hillhater » Jan 24 2020 6:47pm

john61ct wrote:
Jan 24 2020 12:27pm

Also, could the extra power of the 1000W version be devoted to extra torque for getting heavy loads up longer steeper hills, rather than increasing the top speed?
Its a mid drive !
.....so the rear cassette gears will multiply the torque for hill climbing as usual.
If anything, this is a refined version of the Cyclone.
This forum owes its existence to Justin of ebikes.ca

john61ct   1.21 GW

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Re: 1.7kg 1000w mid drive

Post by john61ct » Jan 24 2020 8:27pm

OK, but I'm still asking, since I only want to pay for extra power if it will contribute to low rpm torque, I don't want to go over 20mph.

Assume I'm already in lowest gear, and don't want to mess with my existing drivetrain.

Or do you mean as a rule mid-drives have zero adjustability in that regard, so I might as well get the least powerful model?

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PaulD   100 W

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Re: 1.7kg 1000w mid drive

Post by PaulD » Jan 24 2020 10:51pm

How much reduction in chain life are you guys seeing? The Bosch bikes with about half the power and 15-20T sprockets apparently eat through chains really quickly.

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Pilot Engineer   100 mW

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Re: 1.7kg 1000w mid drive

Post by Pilot Engineer » Jan 25 2020 5:19am

Bigwheel wrote:
Jan 24 2020 6:06pm
Looks good Matteo! When do you think they will be ready to ship? Are the batteries 21700 cell or 18650? Not clear if it has gone through the Indiegogo campaign cycle yet?
Thanks BigWheel! The campaign will start soon, the target was within the end of the month but bad weather is slacking the video shoots. I suggest to subscribe to the newsletter here www.lightest.bike/#Subscribe to get updates about that along with additional info. The shipment will start 6 months after the campaign: we need that time to open the moulds, check them, get the production line ready and manufacture the motors.

We're offering batteries with 18650 cells, but you'll find the "motor only" option as well to couple it with the battery you desire.
john61ct wrote:
Jan 24 2020 12:27pm
Also, could the extra power of the 1000W version be devoted to extra torque for getting heavy loads up longer steeper hills, rather than increasing the top speed?
Sure John, you can do that by choosing a smaller motor sprocket: a great advantage of having a separate motor sprocket is that you can change the motor-to-wheel ratio without affecting the crank-to-wheel ratio. So with the 9T you'll see an equivalent torque of 120Nm, while keeping the chainring you want. I can tell you that the 1000W version with a 12T motor sprocket and a 42T at the wheel is hard to keep from wheeling on steep hills without setting a high taming on the app.

john61ct   1.21 GW

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Re: 1.7kg 1000w mid drive

Post by john61ct » Jan 25 2020 11:01am

4-500lbs can be distributed to reduce the tendency to do wheelies

This would likely be just one motor required for my use case.

The replaceable sprocket looks like a great design idea

btslo   10 W

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Re: 1.7kg 1000w mid drive

Post by btslo » Jan 25 2020 2:33pm

Will there be a motor only 500-750W tier? How would the pedal and power delivery feel compared to a TSDZ2 if you had a chance to test? Looking for a lightweight torque sense middrive.

Hillhater   100 GW

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Re: 1.7kg 1000w mid drive

Post by Hillhater » Jan 25 2020 6:35pm

john61ct wrote:
Jan 24 2020 8:27pm
OK, but I'm still asking, since I only want to pay for extra power if it will contribute to low rpm torque, I don't want to go over 20mph.

Assume I'm already in lowest gear, and don't want to mess with my existing drivetrain.

Or do you mean as a rule mid-drives have zero adjustability in that regard, so I might as well get the least powerful model?
Ok, i see what you are asking..
..does the 1000w motor produce more torque by modifications , or is it just due to higher voltage ? ( hence the higher speed)
But even if it is just more voltage to a “standard” motor, it can inherently draw more current at all loaded rpm’s , and hence more torque across the rpm ramge .....depending on controller settings ?
This forum owes its existence to Justin of ebikes.ca

john61ct   1.21 GW

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Re: 1.7kg 1000w mid drive

Post by john61ct » Jan 25 2020 9:05pm

The swapping out to a smaller motor sprocket looks like will deliver what I'm looking for.

Even if going to a lower Kv winding isn't available, been getting schooled that's not such a significant factor.

Tom   100 W

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Re: 1.7kg 1000w mid drive

Post by Tom » Jan 25 2020 10:11pm

Looks intriguing but who knows how refined the torque sensing will be. Seems like there is a wide variation among "torque sensing" drives.

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