Specialized Levo vs BBSHD

General Discussion about electric bicycles.
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cavi   10 mW

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Specialized Levo vs BBSHD

Post by cavi » Jan 20 2020 7:13pm

Has anyone ridden a good full suspension bike converted with a BBSHD back to back with a Specialized Levo? I am curious as to what the real feel is and the differences and similarities. I only managed to find one video of Eric from Luna doing just a bike to bike comp of one of their Giant conversions against the Specialized. No riding, and I am not sure he had the right idea,as one of the big things he pointed out as an advantage for his bike was that the battery was soo much larger. Personally I am not sure that is a real advantage if you are really wanting to ride trails then I would favor a lighter pack. I currently run a Wolf PUP for shorter tougher rides as I want the light weight. either way I would love to hear opinions. I personally feel that the lack of a throttle on the Levo is a killer as I run my bike with minimal PA and then when I hit the point on a hill that I can no longer make it I add some throttle to help me make it to the top.

markz   100 GW

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Re: Specialized Levo vs BBSHD

Post by markz » Jan 20 2020 8:41pm

No one here at the Endless Sphere forum rides any bicycle store bought ebikes (Trek, Giant etc) its either all or nothing.
DIY ebikers hang out on the Endless Sphere forum.
Store bought ebikers hang out over in the MTBR forums ebike thread. Where any mention of 1000W gets you warned because its illegal. They think the world revolves around Amurika, and no one lives in places where no such dumb stupid laws exist.

Of course I am over exaggerating, but it'd be darn close if you ask me.

I was thinking about taking a test ride on a bicycle store ebike, but I thought it'd be no fun at all being restricted to 32kph/20mph. Plus who the heck wants all proprietary components where the customer cant even work on their own ebike, let alone buy parts from any place and slap it on. I wouldnt want to have to buy car parts strictly from Toyota stealership for my 2001 Honda Civic, so not doing the same for ebike.

Choosing between the two, choose the BBSHD and pick a good frame to put it on and just have fun. Upgrade certain parts on the BBSHD setup where you are saving atleast a grand or more on the store bought ebike.

cavi   10 mW

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Re: Specialized Levo vs BBSHD

Post by cavi » Jan 20 2020 9:50pm

I think you missunderstood me. I own a Kona Dawg Primo full suspension converted with a BBSHD, and choice of either full size Wolf battery and Wolf PUP, I run one or the other depending where and what I am riding. I was just curious as I have never ridden a name brand E-bike, so I wondered what they offered. I personally hate the idea of proprietary parts and no throttle, but I would love to ride one just to see how they fare against my creation. As for people complaining about too much power on dirt trails hurting trails. i ride in an area that is also used by horses. I can personally attest that there is no way any Emtb no matter how much power I throw at it can do as much damage to a trail as horses do during the wet season. Their hooves sink down about 4 inches each time they touch the ground. The trail at the end of the rain season looks like it got bombed by baseballs.

2old   100 kW

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Re: Specialized Levo vs BBSHD

Post by 2old » Jan 21 2020 12:35am

I own a Haibike hardtail and have ridden a Levo extensively as well as many other OEM bikes. My BBS02-equipped hardtail is more powerful than the Levo, but in order to get exercise I seldom use a power level higher than "3" (of 9). IMO, the difference between a DIY project and OEM is that the DIY is more powerful, but the OEM has the battery and motor integrate better and as a consequence handles batter. If you're more of a bicyclist than a throttle-jockey, you'll probably feel more at home on a Levo than DIY.

Antenor   100 W

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Re: Specialized Levo vs BBSHD

Post by Antenor » Jan 21 2020 11:18am

I have a full suspension bbs02 and a cube hibrid full suspension bosch powered ebike.
I can tel that y use more often the cube, because it has a more natural feeling e i get more exercise. And whem i ride with other people in regular bikes and OEM ebikes it will integrate better with the group. Is desrestrited and i can get 55 km/h if i want...but only on the road because you dont do enduro riding at that speed.

I use my other bike more as a motorbyke, because i dont like the bbs02 pas sistem, so i use the throtle to modulate what i want from the bike. Normally i use it alone to quick blasts in the woods.

I like booth...

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efMX Trials Electric Freeride   1 MW

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Re: Specialized Levo vs BBSHD

Post by efMX Trials Electric Freeride » Jan 21 2020 11:24am

search this forum for "Frey" ..
comparison with various factory ebikes there..
some ride & sk8 videos:
metacafe.com/channels/NATAS666DAMIEN
http://www.youtube.com/natas666damien
i have nothing for sale.. :)

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MadRhino   100 GW

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Re: Specialized Levo vs BBSHD

Post by MadRhino » Jan 21 2020 11:40am

The Levo series are among the best bicycle feel that there is right now to ride mountain trails.

Easy to build better performance for much cheaper, but almost impossible to build a better ride, mtb wise.
Make it fool-proof, and I will make a better fool.
Current bikes
Street: https://s20.postimg.org/ewrvugywt/Session_04_2015.jpg
Dirt: https://s20.postimg.org/lbqwr55ml/IMG_0157.jpg

cavi   10 mW

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Re: Specialized Levo vs BBSHD

Post by cavi » Jan 21 2020 1:00pm

Thanks for the replies, I was just curious as I honestly do not have the funds to even consider a Specialized E-bike and honestly am not sure I even would want one....

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ginekolog   100 mW

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Re: Specialized Levo vs BBSHD

Post by ginekolog » Jan 21 2020 2:28pm

I have BBSHD (on Giant Trance x2 2012) and ride 80% mountain trails - very steep ones. I invited my friend with his Giant Trance E+2 PRO 2019. He stood no chance. Then I tried his bike.

My opinion about "Giant Trance E+2 PRO 2019".
Good:
+ PAS with torque sensor
+ look

Bad:
- motor noise (much louder than bbshd)
- no throtle for mud etc
- weak power, on very steep hills i had to step down and push it up.. btw walk assist is allmost useless it gives like 20W wtf
- small battery (500Wh)
- 25 km/h limit- but can be removed for 200 €
Giant Trance X2 + BBSHD + 52V + 17,5 Ah = :bolt: :bigthumb: :D

markz   100 GW

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Re: Specialized Levo vs BBSHD

Post by markz » Jan 22 2020 1:38pm

The ONLY positive aspect of store bought ebikes like the Levo, is the fact that the battery is blended into the frame and is unrecognizable to most people that its an ebike. Disregard the fact that there is a big bubble at the cranks bb where the motor is, most people wont look there and its hidden by the feet moving, humans are easily distracted.

The MANY negative aspects of store bought ebikes
1) Expensive (ebike itself)
2) Proprietary Parts
3) Expensive Proprietary Parts like Expensive PROPRIETARY batteries
4) Paranoid locking the EXPENSIVE ebike up and leaving it there
5) Cant fix components yourself because of EXPENSIVE PROPRIETARY PARTS

Pro's
1) They look like a bicycle, no wires hanging out
2) Reliable
3) Safe


You get more for your money when you install that BBSHD onto your KONA
1) More battery to go longer distances
2) Easily repairable
3) Easy to find parts
4) Easily replaceable
5) Quick turnaround time from breakdown to riding again
6) Can buy parts anywhere, say a bb for a hub wheel ebike buy at any bicycle store, a rear rack.

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Wolfeman   100 W

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Re: Specialized Levo vs BBSHD

Post by Wolfeman » Jan 25 2020 12:18pm

I went into my favorite LBS the other day with my BBS02 powered Street Klunker (approx $900 for everything ready to ride). It's a Luna Cycles BBS02 so max output is about 1.3kW and the battery is a very peppy 12S 16aH Multistar series set-up.

The guys at the shop know I'm into ebikes and wanted to show me the brand new Norco full suspension factory ebike a Sight VLT E-MTB. Drivetrain is a Shimano STEPS E8000 mid-drive with a 630wH battery. Nowhere on the bike, or Norco's or Shimano's websites can you find out max motor output or pack voltage. Also, no throttle. All this for ONLY $7400. I felt bad for laughing at it, but couldn't help myself.

I'm sure that the Norco is the perfect bike for someone, just not me.... It sounds like your Kona is a fantastic set-up and would probably ride circles around a Levo.
Trek 4300 w/ H3580 Crystalyte at 3600W
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=82738
Worksman Mover M2020-3CB w/DD 750W front hub
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=96873
Dyno Moto 7 BMX Cruiser w/BBS02
viewtopic.php?f=6&p=1467001#p1467001
GT Palomar Vintage hardtail w/BBS02
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=104255

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MadRhino   100 GW

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Re: Specialized Levo vs BBSHD

Post by MadRhino » Jan 26 2020 2:43am

Last year, I have tried the Levo carbon top of the line S-Work, in my usual mountain trails. I ride these trails all the summer with 25kw of power, so no comparison of price, power or speed here, only riding and handling feel.

I my life I have ridden many pro DH racing bikes that were not as good rides as the Levo. Specialized had succeeded to design an ebike that really has the feel of a bicycle in mountain trails. Put a BBHD on a 12k$ brand new DH racing bike and no matter what, you will be very far from the handling quality of a Levo. Of course, it has nothing to compare to our self built bikes in price and performance, but building such a natural handling feel is out of anyone of us reach. This does require a whole team, many years of development, and millions of $. So, IMO, it has a purpose and a target market, in which it is way ahead right now. You sure can turn around it on the street with your BBHD, but down a DH trail you will kill yourself trying to keep in its tail.
Make it fool-proof, and I will make a better fool.
Current bikes
Street: https://s20.postimg.org/ewrvugywt/Session_04_2015.jpg
Dirt: https://s20.postimg.org/lbqwr55ml/IMG_0157.jpg

markz   100 GW

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Re: Specialized Levo vs BBSHD

Post by markz » Jan 26 2020 4:01pm

That goes on the positive aspect of buying a $5k+ ebike.

- Great handling characteristics
- Great weight distribution
- Balanced Good

All for multiple thousands of dollars.

What makes me wonder about, if something breaks on the ebike, who actually fixes it. The local bicycle store mechanic or do they ship the bike off somewhere to be fixed, t/s'ed etc. I know a guy who bought a etrike from Honda Powersports, they had to ship it off and for C$3600 he has the pleasure of waiting months and months to ride again.

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MadRhino   100 GW

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Re: Specialized Levo vs BBSHD

Post by MadRhino » Jan 26 2020 6:50pm

Specialized are very expansive of course. Part of the cost is into exceptional after sale service and warranty, and a fair part of it is into continuous development. They don’t really make profit with their top of the line bikes, because it is too small a market. Their profits are from large series, that are sold way above the average market prices because of their name that is built with winning racing teams. When you buy a 2k Specialized bike, you are their milking cow. But when you spend 15k, you benefit of all the development from racing teams and profits from milking cows. :wink:
Make it fool-proof, and I will make a better fool.
Current bikes
Street: https://s20.postimg.org/ewrvugywt/Session_04_2015.jpg
Dirt: https://s20.postimg.org/lbqwr55ml/IMG_0157.jpg

mxs   10 W

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Re: Specialized Levo vs BBSHD

Post by mxs » Jan 30 2020 4:12pm

markz wrote:
Jan 26 2020 4:01pm
That goes on the positive aspect of buying a $5k+ ebike.

- Great handling characteristics
- Great weight distribution
- Balanced Good

All for multiple thousands of dollars.

What makes me wonder about, if something breaks on the ebike, who actually fixes it. The local bicycle store mechanic or do they ship the bike off somewhere to be fixed, t/s'ed etc. I know a guy who bought a etrike from Honda Powersports, they had to ship it off and for C$3600 he has the pleasure of waiting months and months to ride again.
I assume you are talking about parts related to the drive-train incl. control display.

If you buy from a reputable dealer and a product with well supported network, like Bosch (I am sure they are not the only one though, but hard to beat where I live) ... any repair is pretty quick. The dealer orders is from Bosch local DC and has the parts quickly. While the Bosch stuff is not perfect, this was one of the reason I have chosen it ... pros and cons to anything. Choice is yours to make.

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motomoto   1 kW

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Re: Specialized Levo vs BBSHD

Post by motomoto » Jan 30 2020 4:41pm

I have a Fantic 180 italian ebike which is like a Levo
Fantic19-XF1-180-2.jpg
Fantic19-XF1-180-2.jpg (84.83 KiB) Viewed 994 times
It is so fun and awesome. I climb crazy hills as it provides 250 watts between pedal strokes allowing you
to climb straight up if there is traction. I have also raced Baja at over 100 mph with 60 Hp. I have had 4
Sur-ron bikes and currently have 2. I am sure a BBSHD would out perform these class 1 ebikes in a race.
Class 1 is 250 watts that cuts out after 20 mph. These bikes handle well and you can bomb them like a
downhill bike and are silent and no one notices they are electric. A BBSHD bike has way more power, is
always uglier and people know you are on an ebike and could turn you in if you are going too fast or are
tearing up the bike trails. I prefer stealth mode which is care free.

torker   1 MW

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Re: Specialized Levo vs BBSHD

Post by torker » Jan 30 2020 10:47pm

I wonder how well my old Fsr would handle with mid drive. 😁 Night and day compared to my 9c I'm sure.
Dave When I die I want to slide in sideways yelling WooHoo what a ride !

Giant Rincon w rear 9C 6*10 36 v x 20 amps
Specialized FSR Comp 9C 6*10 48v x 30 amps

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