Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

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macribs   1.21 GW

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by macribs » Jan 16 2020 1:09pm

2smokers are the devil's work;)
You are not wrong, your are not wrong. But sometimes you need to make a deal with the devil to have the most fun :twisted:

AFAIK there ain't no real world options to riding smokers when it comes to high performance snowmobiles, so for that and snowbikes I guess I stay the devils child for now. Once we have the long promised ssd batteries....who knows what fun we can without dancing with the devil.

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by 3DTOPO » Jan 16 2020 8:46pm

macribs wrote:
Jan 16 2020 6:09am
Well if your kick is "floating" more then speed and agility I guess even a sur run snowbike can bring you fun.
Where I live, because it is a forested mountain, with twisty roads/trails and trees everywhere, I don't care how many CC's or horsepower you have, you're not going to be going over 30mph (48kph) for more than a hundred meters or you will find yourself wrapped around a tree or flying off a cliff.

That's why the Sur Ron is a perfect fit for the type of stuff I ride. Same thing applies on snow as on the dirt. I don't want or need a snow machine that can do 50-100mph (80-160kph) because there is no where I could ever go that fast around here. Even if I could, since I almost always have by Siberian Husky running with me, I'm just not interested in leaving him in the dust (or powder).
macribs wrote:
Jan 16 2020 6:09am
Btw. Any dirt cheap snowmobile with small 2stroke will give you the floating feel for next to nothing in terms of purchasing cost and riding cost
I have absolutely no interest in a loud, obnoxious and polluting snow machine - that ruins all the fun to me. I would enjoy myself more on Snowshoes.
macribs wrote:
Jan 16 2020 6:09am
Like I don't do cross country skiing, but I love snowboarding and even got a pair of twin tip alpine's. Cross country skiing is floating and enjoying the scenic view . Like a sur ron snowbike I imagine. And snowboard or downhill skiing is more nitro snowbike.
I've clocked myself at 88.5mph (142.4kph) on a snowboard from the top of Mammoth Mountain to mid mountain without taking a single turn. I get it, going fast can be exciting. But I can have just as much fun going for a hike, trail running, pedaling my bike. Certainly not as exciting, but can be just as fun.

I would say that the Sur Ron is somewhere between an acoustic downhill bike and a mx bike (which is why I love it so much - it's the perfect balance). Outfitted with a ski and track, I think it would be somewhere between an acoustic snow-bike (or cross country skis) and a snow machine.
macribs wrote:
Jan 16 2020 6:09am
so surrron snow bike would be a lot more fun than "no-bike"
I guess when I wrote the first post I was only relating it to my own feel about snowbikes and didn't even consider others would feel different. Ain't no right or wrong way to feel. Whatever floats your boat is fine, and if you enjoy sur ron snowbike you should ride sur ron snowbike.
I can wholeheartedly agree with that.
fechter wrote:
Jan 16 2020 8:57am
The actually make an electric snowmobile:
Cool, but personally, I have zero interest in that. I want something light and nimble and doesn't instantly kill my dog in the event of an accident.
dirkdiggler wrote:
Jan 16 2020 11:17am
efMX Trials Electric Freeride wrote:
Jan 13 2020 2:29pm
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Funny we had this conversation two years ago, back on page 86,87 of the thread. I'd love to see that Sur-ron Timbersled Ripper riding in a video. Could be more fun than we think. I know my local motoshop has the older Ripper 93 version for $1k, which would be reasonable. That's only if I don't need to do a ton of custom work to get it to fit the Sur-ron. Seems like you'd have to with the chain on the other side, no foot brake and such.
3dtopo-
Definitely let us know what you hear back from them if you do!
I was just thinking this felt a lot like a repeat too! Yeah, I wished they had a video.

I haven't got a reply and am staring to think I won't. I don't understand ignoring a community someone builds - but to each their own I guess.

I'm going to order a Ripper, but I'm going to wait until next Fall. By the time I received one and got it installed it would probably be February, then I'm only about a month away from wanting to run on tires. I doubt any major modifications are required to the Sur Ron; if anything probably just need some custom spacers or something which would be trivial to turn on my lathe.

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Rix   100 GW

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by Rix » Jan 17 2020 10:33pm

Got my new X Lightbee in. Its a bit better than the first generation. Put some trials tires on and got Motomoto's 55T sprocket and chain on. Thanks Kim for cutting the chain to length. Haven't ridden it yet, maybe this weekend.
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3DTOPO   1 kW

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by 3DTOPO » Jan 17 2020 10:37pm

Awesome! Welcome back to the "club". :)

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by litespeed » Jan 17 2020 11:29pm

Rix wrote:
Jan 17 2020 10:33pm
Got my new X Lightbee in. Its a bit better than the first generation. Put some trials tires on and got Motomoto's 55T sprocket and chain on. Thanks Kim for cutting the chain to length. Haven't ridden it yet, maybe this weekend.
If you don’t mind get a picture of you on the bike. If I remember correctly your tall like me or close to it? I’m 6’-3” (was 6’-4” but years of wear and tear.....) and about 210 lbs.

Bike looks great all murdered out.

Tom
I'm married so you know I'm no stranger to pain!

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by Allex » Jan 18 2020 6:18pm

Rix wrote:
Jan 17 2020 10:33pm
Got my new X Lightbee in. Its a bit better than the first generation. Put some trials tires on and got Motomoto's 55T sprocket and chain on. Thanks Kim for cutting the chain to length. Haven't ridden it yet, maybe this weekend.
Wzup Rix! Missed this small bee too much?
Have not posted it here but:
Just got got my modded controller fixed now. We fitted 24F Nuc inside.
Thx team Nucular!
Image

Worth it for me, because it is plug and play, screw on using original mounts without hassling with new mounts and besides, it looks stock even though it is tuned!
This bike is so sick now! Belt drive and 12kW pops wheelies just like that at 50km/h
Tops at around 100km/h did not have time to experiment much with settings yet though.
16s13p 30q (39Ah vs stock 32Ah) pack in original battery casing too!

It will be brutal with 20s
You should test drive one Rick ;)

Yeah Hopefully I will offer kit containing battery and controller
Controller spec:
Maximum power 20 000W
Nominal power 10 000W
Voltage range 20-90V
Phase max 500A
Battery max ~300A

With above battery I can only run 195A so I am limited to about 12kW

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by Merlin » Jan 18 2020 7:08pm

20s14p - 3Kwh - is on the way :D

450A peak allowed :D
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Rix   100 GW

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by Rix » Jan 18 2020 9:59pm

litespeed wrote:
Jan 17 2020 11:29pm
Rix wrote:
Jan 17 2020 10:33pm
Got my new X Lightbee in. Its a bit better than the first generation. Put some trials tires on and got Motomoto's 55T sprocket and chain on. Thanks Kim for cutting the chain to length. Haven't ridden it yet, maybe this weekend.
If you don’t mind get a picture of you on the bike. If I remember correctly your tall like me or close to it? I’m 6’-3” (was 6’-4” but years of wear and tear.....) and about 210 lbs.

Bike looks great all murdered out.

Tom
I'm about 4 inches shorter and 30 pounds more :lol: . If you want to post for a pic, I will do that.

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Rix   100 GW

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by Rix » Jan 18 2020 10:06pm

Allex wrote:
Jan 18 2020 6:18pm
Rix wrote:
Jan 17 2020 10:33pm
Got my new X Lightbee in. Its a bit better than the first generation. Put some trials tires on and got Motomoto's 55T sprocket and chain on. Thanks Kim for cutting the chain to length. Haven't ridden it yet, maybe this weekend.
Wzup Rix! Missed this small bee too much?
Have not posted it here but:
Just got got my modded controller fixed now. We fitted 24F Nuc inside.
Thx team Nucular!



It will be brutal with 20s
You should test drive one Rick ;)

Yeah Hopefully I will offer kit containing battery and controller
Controller spec:
Maximum power 20 000W
Nominal power 10 000W
Voltage range 20-90V
Phase max 500A
Battery max ~300A

With above battery I can only run 195A so I am limited to about 12kW
Geez, you and Merlin have some high powered bikes there. BTW, I can't get my bike to run when I twist the throttle. I didn't run it until after I got my new sprocket and chain on. I have everything plugged in and when I power it up, the lights are on, speed is on, horn works, but when I twist the throttle, nothing. And yes, I had the kick stand up. Also, in the top picture, there is a red wire that loops on itself, is this the wire I need to cut to get full power? My bike came with another harness, with a red light bulb in the middle, whats that about? Let me know what you think.
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Merlin   1 MW

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by Merlin » Jan 19 2020 6:26am

Does it show any errors in display?
(the harness is for diagnostic stuff) but AFAIK you can't use by yourself.

There's also a crash sensor. But before you disassemble the bike to disconnect stuff for testing where did you bought?
It's new with 0 miles. Your dealer should help?

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by madin88 » Jan 19 2020 8:37am

Merlin wrote:
Jan 18 2020 7:08pm
20s14p - 3Kwh - is on the way :D
I would like to know more about that battery. :)
Is it 14p inside the silver case (looks selfmade?), or with the add-on bag?

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by Merlin » Jan 19 2020 8:41am

with the new aluminimum case =)
...with Bag extender 4.4kwh :lol:

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by madin88 » Jan 19 2020 9:35am

Merlin wrote:
Jan 19 2020 8:41am
with the new aluminimum case =)
:thumb:
18650 cells or which size, and does it fit without doing anything on the frame (like filing and grinding)?

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by Merlin » Jan 19 2020 9:58am

Plug n play battery. Nobody wants to cut or grind something on the bike =)

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Offroader   100 MW

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by Offroader » Jan 19 2020 10:21am

20s14p could fit inside a sur-ron sized battery case. I calculated it was very possible if you pack the cells tightly together and do not use cell spacers. You really do not need spacers for the battery cells, while the cells do heat up a bit, the cells do not exceed their temperature limits before the cells are completely drained.

I have a bike with a 20s14p pack. The only issue with that is it does add a bit of extra weight. It will add 11.5 LBS or 5.2kg of extra weight to your sur-ron. 11.5 lbs is not a big deal but it will be felt and it is extra added weight. If you are off-roading the bike and need to lift it over stuff it will be more of an issue.

One thing you have to take into consideration is if you will actually need a 3KW pack. This is a lot of capacity.
For me lately I find myself only going on shorter joy rides, I never even use up all my stock Sur-Ron battery capacity. For me a larger pack doesn't make much sense. Even if I commute to work with it I can just charge it at work. I would prefer to have the less weight.

If you do feel you need the capacity then it is well worth it as the increase in weight isn't that big of a deal and you adapt to the extra weight quickly. Especially for you guys who just use the bike on the street as a motorcycle, who cares about the weight.

Optimally you would have two battery packs and just switch them depending on distance you are riding. That is the beauty of the Sur-Ron that you have a battery pack that is easily removed. Would make more sense if the packs were matched in discharge amps, or both met your amp requirements, so you don't have to change your controller settings.

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by litespeed » Jan 19 2020 11:55am

Rix wrote:
Jan 18 2020 9:59pm
litespeed wrote:
Jan 17 2020 11:29pm
Rix wrote:
Jan 17 2020 10:33pm
Got my new X Lightbee in. Its a bit better than the first generation. Put some trials tires on and got Motomoto's 55T sprocket and chain on. Thanks Kim for cutting the chain to length. Haven't ridden it yet, maybe this weekend.
If you don’t mind get a picture of you on the bike. If I remember correctly your tall like me or close to it? I’m 6’-3” (was 6’-4” but years of wear and tear.....) and about 210 lbs.

Bike looks great all murdered out.

Tom
I'm about 4 inches shorter and 30 pounds more :lol: . If you want to post for a pic, I will do that.
I’ve seen you in many pictures and familiar with your rides so your the equivalent of a banana to me...... most pictures make these look really small so I have a hard time judging. I believe someone said they are about the size of an XR100R? I bought one of those for my wife years ago so if that’s a good comparison, in your opinion, then you can skip the modeling session.

Thanks

Tom
I'm married so you know I'm no stranger to pain!

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by Rix » Jan 19 2020 7:53pm

litespeed wrote:
Jan 19 2020 11:55am
Rix wrote:
Jan 18 2020 9:59pm
litespeed wrote:
Jan 17 2020 11:29pm
Rix wrote:
Jan 17 2020 10:33pm
Got my new X Lightbee in. Its a bit better than the first generation. Put some trials tires on and got Motomoto's 55T sprocket and chain on. Thanks Kim for cutting the chain to length. Haven't ridden it yet, maybe this weekend.
If you don’t mind get a picture of you on the bike. If I remember correctly your tall like me or close to it? I’m 6’-3” (was 6’-4” but years of wear and tear.....) and about 210 lbs.

Bike looks great all murdered out.

Tom
I'm about 4 inches shorter and 30 pounds more :lol: . If you want to post for a pic, I will do that.
I’ve seen you in many pictures and familiar with your rides so your the equivalent of a banana to me...... most pictures make these look really small so I have a hard time judging. I believe someone said they are about the size of an XR100R? I bought one of those for my wife years ago so if that’s a good comparison, in your opinion, then you can skip the modeling session.

Thanks

Tom
These bikes feel like a lightweight CRF150F (not the 150R) with a shorter wheel base size wise. I will get a picture to you, but at 6'3", you will look big on it.

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by Rix » Jan 19 2020 7:55pm

Merlin wrote:
Jan 19 2020 6:26am
Does it show any errors in display?
(the harness is for diagnostic stuff) but AFAIK you can't use by yourself.

There's also a crash sensor. But before you disassemble the bike to disconnect stuff for testing where did you bought?
It's new with 0 miles. Your dealer should help?
Got it from Luna direct. Its under some kind of warranty for sure, I don't want to touch it and screw that up. I will get it working, just a matter of time.

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by 3DTOPO » Jan 19 2020 8:23pm

Rix wrote:
Jan 19 2020 7:55pm
Merlin wrote:
Jan 19 2020 6:26am
Does it show any errors in display?
(the harness is for diagnostic stuff) but AFAIK you can't use by yourself.

There's also a crash sensor. But before you disassemble the bike to disconnect stuff for testing where did you bought?
It's new with 0 miles. Your dealer should help?
Got it from Luna direct. Its under some kind of warranty for sure, I don't want to touch it and screw that up. I will get it working, just a matter of time.
I would be willing to bet its one of the protection sensors, which as I'm sure you know are on the (1) breaks, (2) tilt and (3) kickstand.

I would first try disconnecting the break sensors - mine caused the same issue with hardly any miles on the bike. Of the sensors, they can be disconnected the most easily without taking anything apart. Just unscrew the thumb nuts over the wires going to the breaks then pull the wires out. I would have removed them even if they weren't faulty eventually - I much prefer them removed. If that doesn't do it I would disconnect the kickstand sensor next (triangle connector).

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by 3DTOPO » Jan 19 2020 8:33pm

Rix wrote:
Jan 19 2020 7:55pm
Got it from Luna direct. Its under some kind of warranty for sure
I'm not saying they won't help you, but as far as I know, they still haven't announced any warranty information for the Sur Ron.

Before I purchased one about a year and a half ago, they promised me they would publish warranty information "very soon". I could be wrong, but I don't think they've ever published one.

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by macribs » Jan 19 2020 8:34pm

Merlin wrote:
Jan 18 2020 7:08pm
20s14p - 3Kwh - is on the way :D

450A peak allowed :D

What kind of cells and cell size did you choose? Couldn't tell for sure from the pic but is the new battery box a little taller then the original box? Not that a taller box will be a problem. For sure for a hi power controller upgrade one likely would need to splurge for a bigger pack as well to harvest all the fun.

Are you on the 24f nuc as well or rocking something like the bac 8k maybe? For sure you will get a very different bike now that you can peak as high as 450A. That thing will be brutal.

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by Merlin » Jan 19 2020 9:01pm

i can tell you the height when everything is done. =)
for now the case is a bit higher. the "close mechanism" would get an upgrade. just a longer piece of hanger to close it.
maximum height should be a "flat" stock cover. just for aesthetics not higher.
It is a veeeeery tight fit/build and needed alot of experimenting/try&error to fit all safe insulated incl BMS.
It will used on nasty Offroad conditions.
first shot was to high. pretty huge battery but looked crappy. with a flat cover you could even use additional bag for extra terrestric capacity but
i think 3kwh is a good balance. Good for a ~80Km/50mi fun adventure without efficiency miracles :mrgreen:

yea iam a nucular user. Surron and LMX.
LMX allready running 20KW and its useless overpowered :lol:
you can sit on the handlebar and it would flip you over from zero :D
thats why iam sayin useless...its hard to control. for a good run i need several atempts to accelerate quick.
way way easier to limit to ~200a and just enjoy acceleration with pinned throttle =)

anyway, my lmx is more short geared for Offroad rides so without flux weaken it runs only ~65kph/40mph


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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by macribs » Jan 19 2020 9:24pm

Allex wrote:
Jan 18 2020 6:18pm
Just got got my modded controller fixed now. We fitted 24F Nuc inside.
Thx team Nucular!
Image



It will be brutal with 20s
Nice.
Let us know how she rides with the new 24f + 20s.
Allex wrote:
Jan 18 2020 6:18pm
Yeah Hopefully I will offer kit containing battery and controller
Controller spec:
Maximum power 20 000W
Nominal power 10 000W
Voltage range 20-90V
Phase max 500A
Battery max ~300A
Hm. Tell me more? Will you be selling 24f nuc and custom surron packs from Stockholm. That would mean no additional VAT. :lol: :wink:

What kind of cells will you be using and will you be able to provide similar controller as you are rocking? A 24f nuc inside stock controller housing? I think for the L1e plated surron that original housing for the 24f nuc is clever.

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by macribs » Jan 19 2020 9:27pm

Merlin wrote:
Jan 19 2020 9:01pm
i can tell you the height when everything is done. =)
i think 3kwh is a good balance. Good for a ~80Km/50mi fun adventure without efficiency miracles :mrgreen:
Nice.

Merlin wrote:
Jan 19 2020 9:01pm
yea iam a nucular user. Surron and LMX.
LMX allready running 20KW and its useless overpowered :lol:
you can sit on the handlebar and it would flip you over from zero :D
thats why iam sayin useless...its hard to control. for a good run i need several atempts to accelerate quick.
way way easier to limit to ~200a and just enjoy acceleration with pinned throttle =)

anyway, my lmx is more short geared for Offroad rides so without flux weaken it runs only ~65kph/40mph
Don't really know much about the lmx, but useless overpowered, seems like you hit the sweet spot bullseye. And I really like that you are making your surron just as "useless overpowered". Power, when will it ever be enough really? And I guess you can always play around with the settings in the 24f nuc and restrict things a bit. I don't own a 24f yet so I am not really sure about what kan be achieved in the three modes but look into that if you find your new battery and controller to be a little "hot" in the woods.

I'll be you will enjoy all of that power at each straight away and sandy surfaces, up every steep hill and whenever you crank that throttle wide open.

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by BCTECH » Jan 20 2020 1:30pm

does anyone know if the rear wheel is laced exactly centre of the hub or offset ? by how much?

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