High-kW onboard chargers

Batteries, Chargers, and Battery Management Systems.
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john61ct   100 GW

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High-kW onboard chargers

Post by john61ct » Jan 12 2020 9:40am

Wonder what's out there OTS now and accessible to DIYers

Here's a fluff / vaporware "what's coming" post, looks promising if real:

https://insideevs.com/news/392378/innol ... rd-charger

Tony01   10 W

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Re: High-kW onboard chargers

Post by Tony01 » Jan 15 2020 8:44pm

Is the modded huawei 3000w charger no good for onboard?

I'm looking for a level 2 setup. as high KW rate as possible up to 10kw for as little money as possible. I have a 21s, 24ah 25c/5c pack.
I don't always listen to Pantera.... but when I do, SO DO THE NEIGHBORS :D

john61ct   100 GW

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Re: High-kW onboard chargers

Post by john61ct » Jan 16 2020 4:36am

Nope those and the Flatpaks seem the way to go. Starting point anyway.

Wiring J1772 input to start with is what I'd really like to see a detailed howTo cookbook on.

Tony01   10 W

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Re: High-kW onboard chargers

Post by Tony01 » Jan 16 2020 10:42pm

Wiring up a J1772 is the easy part- Charging an Electric Bike with a J1772 EV Plug

The hard part is the price. Powerful chargers cost real money. It's not just the price of a single unit, it's replacing it when it breaks.

J1772 connector $80.
Modded Huawei $225
72v 30a GTK charger, 2200w, looks tougher? maybe not $250

So you are looking at a bike side parts cost starting at $350 for DOUBLE the charge speed of a typical 110v plug.

I get about 45Wh/mi if I ride easy. So at 2200w charge its not even a mile per minute. Not worth it, currently guerilla charging at 800 to 1250w on 110v with a $130 charger.
I don't always listen to Pantera.... but when I do, SO DO THE NEIGHBORS :D

john61ct   100 GW

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Re: High-kW onboard chargers

Post by john61ct » Jan 17 2020 3:45pm

Stock Huawei R4850G2 go for maybe $60 on eBay.

if 48V is too low, with a good controller maybe go to double that, no modding needed.

John in CR   100 GW

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Re: High-kW onboard chargers

Post by John in CR » Jan 17 2020 4:13pm

Use Nucular controllers and you can charge through the motor coils at whatever current your motor, batteries and the plug can handle. No expensive charger to fail and no space or significant money is used. Plus you have one of the best controllers available to power your motor.

Tony01   10 W

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Re: High-kW onboard chargers

Post by Tony01 » Jan 17 2020 5:48pm

John in CR wrote:
Jan 17 2020 4:13pm
Use Nucular controllers and you can charge through the motor coils at whatever current your motor, batteries and the plug can handle. No expensive charger to fail and no space or significant money is used. Plus you have one of the best controllers available to power your motor.
But still need a psu to do the ac/dc to a voltage lower than the battery? So I could technically run two huaweis in parallel either for 5kw, or 2.5kw for redundancy?

I already have an asi, and I’d still need to carry a psu.
I don't always listen to Pantera.... but when I do, SO DO THE NEIGHBORS :D

John in CR   100 GW

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Re: High-kW onboard chargers

Post by John in CR » Jan 18 2020 12:16am

Tony01 wrote:
Jan 17 2020 5:48pm
John in CR wrote:
Jan 17 2020 4:13pm
Use Nucular controllers and you can charge through the motor coils at whatever current your motor, batteries and the plug can handle. No expensive charger to fail and no space or significant money is used. Plus you have one of the best controllers available to power your motor.
But still need a psu to do the ac/dc to a voltage lower than the battery? So I could technically run two huaweis in parallel either for 5kw, or 2.5kw for redundancy?

I already have an asi, and I’d still need to carry a psu.
Yeah, I forgot we need to supply a lower voltage than pack voltage, but when we rectify AC to DC don't you divide the AC voltage by the sqrt of 2 to get the DC voltage? With the standard pack voltage I've adopted of 21s, it may be cutting it a bit close, so when I go to a charger-less ebike that plugs straight into any 110V outlet, I'll probably go to a 22s pack, as well as bounce my plan for what is essentially a nearly unbreakable charger that consists of 4 big diodes (and probably a capacitor???) off of the experts here on the forum. AC voltage is pretty variable down here, so I may have to add some kind of added supply voltage protection.

Things will get a lot easier once Nucular comes out with the high voltage controllers I beg for every chance I get. I dream of the day when I can push a HubMonster with dual 24f Nuc's and a 35s or higher pack (if they go to a 200V unit). Then I can take back the title of fastest hubmotor from Rovi, though he did fry that double wide 100lb QS after just a handful of runs and mine tuned as a daily rider with over 6 years of trouble-free service. Since I've hit 182kph on 31s, I could probably eek by his 200 with some aero, a bigger wheel, and maybe 1 more cell in series, but I want to blow by his record when I break it.

john61ct   100 GW

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Re: High-kW onboard chargers

Post by john61ct » Jan 18 2020 1:02am

So to clarify, the Nucular controller requires DC input, and will output a voltage higher than that input voltage, boost conversion only?

And let you arbitrarily set a custom voltage?

And let you de-rate current amps?

So a pair of PSUs each 3kW outputting ~48Vdc, gets converted to say 90A @58V, or 65A @80V or whatever I want?

John in CR   100 GW

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Re: High-kW onboard chargers

Post by John in CR » Jan 18 2020 8:45am

john61ct wrote:
Jan 18 2020 1:02am
So to clarify, the Nucular controller requires DC input, and will output a voltage higher than that input voltage, boost conversion only?

And let you arbitrarily set a custom voltage?

And let you de-rate current amps?

So a pair of PSUs each 3kW outputting ~48Vdc, gets converted to say 90A @58V, or 65A @80V or whatever I want?
Yes on the boost conversion only. Not sure about DC only input since the motor during regen isn't DC. Yes complete control over voltage cutoff and charge current limits, though 90A or 65A is likely to heat your motor a bit much, especially when it's just sitting there not spinning and no airflow of movement.

Personally I wouldn't carry any PSU or regular charge as they're simply not designed for the vibration and shock resistance virtually guaranteeing failures, and I'm too cheap to pay several hundred for a charger designed for onboard installation, so I'll suffer through backpacking a charger for my rare really long rides. All my stuff other than my in town rocket converted MadAss have 100km+ range now, so charging is pretty much a non-issue.

Converting to DC is simple, just 4 diodes for full rectification. Is there something as easy and reliable (and not too lossy for lots of heat to dissipate) that can divide voltage? The Nuc's don't need a fixed voltage input, though I think going too low means higher losses and heat, it just needs to be less than pack voltage.

I love the idea of not worrying about a charger, or which one to connect (I still have a few different pack voltages and have to be careful). Plus quite easily through the display I could change the charge current, so run a nice low one for usual overnight charging, and then crank it up when needed for quick charging all with no worries about a charger failure, since the controller is designed for much higher current use than I'd ever consider charging. The only thing to forget is an extension cord, which is easy enough to find or buy cheaply.

john61ct   100 GW

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Re: High-kW onboard chargers

Post by john61ct » Jan 18 2020 9:12am

Mean Well's HLG series is pretty robust.

HLG-600H-54A is the biggest but can be stacked, 11-12A each up to 57v

I picked up a pallet of the 240W ones cheap

Tony01   10 W

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Re: High-kW onboard chargers

Post by Tony01 » Jan 18 2020 2:00pm

john61ct wrote:
Jan 18 2020 9:12am
Mean Well's HLG series is pretty robust.

HLG-600H-54A is the biggest but can be stacked, 11-12A each up to 57v

I picked up a pallet of the 240W ones cheap
Not high enough kw.

John in CR I don’t know enough about electronics but I do know a simple rectifier. That would be really cool to be able to avoid the PSUs.

Onboard is the only way. Always worried leaving the bike charging that somebody will steal my charger.

Is there anybody who has run the Huawei onboard long enough to know?
I don't always listen to Pantera.... but when I do, SO DO THE NEIGHBORS :D

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