Wind and Solar vs Coal, Gasoline, Nuclear

General Discussion about electric vehicles.
sendler2112   100 kW

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Re: Wind and Solar vs Coal, Gasoline, Nuclear

Post by sendler2112 » Dec 07 2019 5:58am

"The question is: Even if storage-project owners want to reduce emissions, how can they? How can they know when to charge and when to discharge?"
.
"WattTime
.
https://www.watttime.org/
.
rolled out Automated Emissions Reduction, a consumer-facing program that uses exactly this kind of real-time grid-emissions data to help customers better manage their distributed energy resources (DERs). Then, in May, it announced a program whereby it would use satellites and AI to track real-time emissions data at every power plant in the world, which could enable DER owners the world over to maximize their GHG impact."
.
The simpler answer would have been to implement a carbon tax on all sources right where it leaves the ground as is proposed in H.R. 763
.
https://citizensclimatelobby.org/energy ... idend-act/
.
so that the market price of the electricity that is generated by gas plants at night wasn't cheaper just because demand is lower.

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TheBeastie   1 MW

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Re: Wind and Solar vs Coal, Gasoline, Nuclear

Post by TheBeastie » Dec 10 2019 2:44am

Continuing on from last weeks fuel-cell news with Doosan's truly incredible 70kilometer long ocean drone flight via fuel-cell technology for emergency transferring of medical gear between islands, viewtopic.php?f=7&t=89002&start=5400#p1514087

This week Doosan do a milder 20kilometer demonstration.
Doosan Launches Environmental Patrol Demonstration Test Using Hydrogen Fuel Cell Drones in the Nakdong River Basin
https://fuelcellsworks.com/news/doosan- ... ver-basin/
Doosan Mobility Innovation’s hydrogen fuel cell drone showed a variety of missions by flying the 20km Nakdong River basin from Gangjeong Boryeongbo to Daegu. It performed a variety of missions with long flights such as emergency evacuation warning broadcasts, oil spill monitoring, transmission tower inspections, and real-time checks of fish ponds.
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Apparently this is a real game-changer for cheap Hydrogen generation out of water...
Scientists find cheaper way to make hydrogen energy out of water
https://fuelcellsworks.com/news/scienti ... -of-water/
An additional benefit is that our nickel-iron electrode can catalyze both the hydrogen and oxygen generation, so not only could we slash the production costs by using Earth-abundant elements, but also the costs of manufacturing one catalyst instead of two."

A quick glance at today's metal prices shows just why this could be the gamechanger needed to speed the transition towards the so-called hydrogen economy. Iron and nickel are priced at $0.13 and $19.65 a kilogram. By contrast, ruthenium, platinum and iridium are priced at $11.77, $42.13 and $69.58 per gram—in other words, thousands of times more expensive.

We've been talking about the hydrogen economy for ages, but this time it looks as though it's really coming.
https://newsroom.unsw.edu.au/news/scien ... -out-water
^Above is the non-detailed press release statement... here below is the mind-bending extreme detailed document on Nature.com
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-019-13415-8
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Hydrogen solutions for shipping seems to be incredibly popular
https://fuelcellsworks.com/news/schotte ... gen-ferry/
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If you wondered about those stories of the 3rd world dumping all their plastic garbage in their rivers/ocean seas to make it 'go away' because its cheaper than burrying or burning then here is another video of such actitivy, I see 3-4 garbage trucks dumping their loads in the water... For some reason this type of video footage is senstive, I seen a number of these similar types of video footage but where they cut the video right before the garbage falls into the water, so you never actually see the dirty deed in completion, its incredibly annoying.
https://twitter.com/FabManuelMulas/stat ... 7594307585
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750 Billion Reasons Why Goldman Is Rooting For Greta Thunberg's Success
https://www.zerohedge.com/markets/750-b ... gs-success
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-gold ... 000175b35c
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I think one large tech company saw this law suit coming as I saw a headline recently claim they exclusively source all their cobalt from Australia, forget which one.
A landmark legal case has been launched against the world's largest tech companies by Congolese families who say their children were killed or maimed while mining for cobalt used to power smartphones, laptops and electric cars, the Guardian can reveal. Apple, Google, Dell, Microsoft and Tesla have been named as defendants in a lawsuit filed in Washington DC by human rights firm International Rights Advocates on behalf of 14 parents and children from the Democratic Republic of the Congo (DRC).
https://hardware.slashdot.org/story/19/ ... um=twitter
https://www.theguardian.com/global-deve ... ing-deaths
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I found a cute kid flying a drone that all the white people haters can dwell apon to accuse of being at fault
Image

But fact is all these celiberaties drive a Tesla, and some of them have been known to tell the general public to "lift their game" in terms of environmental/ethical footprints.
Remember there are over 7,000 cells in your average Tesla, if on average you got a new cell phone every 5 years over an 80 year life time thats only 16 equivalant sized lithium cells used... You are using in the hundreds or even thousands of cell phone equvialant cobalt destroying life times if you buy a few Tesla's in your life time.
Remember the days when celiberaties would get egged for wearing a real fur coat? What ever happened to that kind of thing..
https://www.businessinsider.com/18-cele ... -model-s-6
https://www.ranker.com/list/celebrities ... rity-lists
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Usage of "evil" coal globally continues to power-drive higher to all new records of usage. :lol:
Look at it in a postive way, as long as its being burned far far away in other countries the co2 emissions can't possibly affect your local quality of air. Remember when anyone exhales its at 40,000ppm co2 as your body emits about 1.4kilograms of co2 per day which has to be the most fascinating fact about the human body period.
Coal Endures as World's Favorite Fuel for Electricity Generation
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... generation
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Last edited by TheBeastie on Dec 30 2019 4:32am, edited 28 times in total.
Speed Kills Range, 10mph = 46 miles range, 20mph = 20 miles, 30mph = 8 miles rangehttps://goo.gl/1JNL53
Over Charging Kills ur battery bit.ly/1hzWKl4
Consider PAS as your only throttle https://goo.gl/Kg1F8F
Fuel-Cell is the ultimate battery coupled with 4th-gen Nuclear
https://goo.gl/TcKtHs https://goo.gl/ZhFFot https://goo.gl/gfa215
10 Square Miles of solar panels = 0.12GW average power! https://goo.gl/Ub1S39

Punx0r   100 GW

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Re: Wind and Solar vs Coal, Gasoline, Nuclear

Post by Punx0r » Dec 10 2019 4:31am

Coal plants close to being "uninsurable":

https://www.theguardian.com/environment ... fuse-cover

Soon they will only be able to built or operated with the kind of direct government subsidies renewable energy opponents loathe so much.

Hillhater   100 GW

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Re: Wind and Solar vs Coal, Gasoline, Nuclear

Post by Hillhater » Dec 16 2019 8:06pm

TheBeastie wrote:
Dec 10 2019 2:44am
.....We've been talking about the hydrogen economy for ages, but this time it looks as though it's really coming.....
We know the technology is developed, and there are multiple applications,..
....BUT very few financial details to show the economic viability of these systems. ??
This forum owes its existence to Justin of ebikes.ca

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Toorbough ULL-Zeveigh   100 MW

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Re: Wind and Solar vs Coal, Gasoline, Nuclear

Post by Toorbough ULL-Zeveigh » Dec 17 2019 4:13pm

dude, you absolutely know the h2 economy can only happen once if & when all the lakes & rivers are completely owned by corporations (oil, disney, other satanic entities).
Frank Joey 'hey, how yew Dune' Herbert wrote:The World Bank has predicted that by 2025, two-thirds of the world’s population will run short of fresh drinking water.
Given such a grim outlook, it comes as little surprise that Fortune magazine recently defined water as “the oil of the 21st century.”
Poised to capitalize on this crisis are private companies, many of which are multinationals whose tentacles are probing the planet for opportunities to turn the misery of water-starved regions into profits for their executives and stockholders. ...
https://www.citizen.org/wp-content/uplo ... zation.pdf
Last edited by Toorbough ULL-Zeveigh on Dec 18 2019 12:19pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Dauntless   100 GW

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Re: Wind and Solar vs Coal, Gasoline, Nuclear

Post by Dauntless » Dec 17 2019 10:10pm

Any sufficiently advanced technology is INDISTINGUISHABLE FROM MAGIC!
- Arthur C. Clarke

billvon   1 GW

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Re: Wind and Solar vs Coal, Gasoline, Nuclear

Post by billvon » Dec 17 2019 11:37pm

Toorbough ULL-Zeveigh wrote:
Dec 17 2019 4:13pm
dude, you absolutely know the h2 economy can only happen once if & when all the lakes & rivers are completely owned by corporations (oil, disney, other satanic entities).
Hydrogen is a great idea. But:

1) We don't have any. We have to make it. So it's not really a fuel, more like a storage medium.

2) Right now the cheapest way to make it is by reforming natural gas/methane. And honestly, natural gas is a better fuel/storage medium than hydrogen. It's much safer, easier to handle and ship, and gives you more range. And it's easier to make. And if you really want to run a fuel cell, you can reform natural gas back into hydrogen.

That being said, if we ever get high temperature gas reactors that can do thermal dissociation, we'd get a cheap source of hydrogen. And once there's a cheap source of it, people will have great incentives to solve the storage/shipping/safety problems.
--bill von

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Re: Wind and Solar vs Coal, Gasoline, Nuclear

Post by cricketo » Dec 18 2019 10:52pm

billvon wrote:
Dec 17 2019 11:37pm
2) Right now the cheapest way to make it is by reforming natural gas/methane. And honestly, natural gas is a better fuel/storage medium than hydrogen. It's much safer, easier to handle and ship, and gives you more range. And it's easier to make. And if you really want to run a fuel cell, you can reform natural gas back into hydrogen.
Sabatier reactors. But you guys don't have anything useful to say on the topic :mrgreen:

billvon   1 GW

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Re: Wind and Solar vs Coal, Gasoline, Nuclear

Post by billvon » Dec 19 2019 2:34pm

cricketo wrote:
Dec 18 2019 10:52pm
Sabatier reactors. But you guys don't have anything useful to say on the topic
Well, steam reforming (the Sabatier process goes the other way.) But yeah, I guess I don't have the "correct" perspective on such things . . .
--bill von

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Re: Wind and Solar vs Coal, Gasoline, Nuclear

Post by cricketo » Dec 19 2019 5:05pm

billvon wrote:
Dec 19 2019 2:34pm
cricketo wrote:
Dec 18 2019 10:52pm
Sabatier reactors. But you guys don't have anything useful to say on the topic
Well, steam reforming (the Sabatier process goes the other way.) But yeah, I guess I don't have the "correct" perspective on such things . . .
I was referring to the second part of the quote - I agree Methane is more convenient, and there is a well-understood process for making it. SpaceX is planning to use it on other planets too, so there may be commercial developments in that space very soon. The question is if anyone (other than NASA) is looking into compact machines that can be used say in a typical household...

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Dauntless   100 GW

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Re: Wind and Solar vs Coal, Gasoline, Nuclear

Post by Dauntless » Dec 21 2019 12:31am

Any sufficiently advanced technology is INDISTINGUISHABLE FROM MAGIC!
- Arthur C. Clarke

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TheBeastie   1 MW

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Re: Wind and Solar vs Coal, Gasoline, Nuclear

Post by TheBeastie » Dec 22 2019 2:33am

Hillhater wrote:
Dec 16 2019 8:06pm
TheBeastie wrote:
Dec 10 2019 2:44am
.....We've been talking about the hydrogen economy for ages, but this time it looks as though it's really coming.....
We know the technology is developed, and there are multiple applications,..
....BUT very few financial details to show the economic viability of these systems. ??
Fuel-Cell "TCO" (Total cost of ownership https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Total_cost_of_ownership ) compared to gasoline/fossil-fuel? Sure Fuel-Cell is more expensive, no argument, but so is pure Lithium Battery EV and Tesla solar+battery home.

I am just posting some of the more interesting projects happening in Fuel-Cell news, but there are new Fuel-Cell projects and most importantly new mass-production fuel-cell factories starting up at a remarkable pace.
https://twitter.com/fuelcellsworks
https://fuelcellsworks.com/news/
Nuvera Breaks Ground on Automated Fuel Cell Production Facility in China
https://fuelcellsworks.com/news/nuvera- ... -in-china/
Image

When it comes to wind/solar farms its always government and heavy subsidies that have long created these projects and this appears to barely be stopping anywhere in the whole world, comparatively the amount of private industry going the fuel-cell route for heavy industries like large ships/trucks/trains is really quite remarkable and every week I look at the fuel-cell news I get more convinced that Fuel-Cell really will be the dark-horse long-term winner in "green energy".

There are signs on top that Fuel-Cell will have incomparable advantages that aren't available in the pure lithium battery space or the gasoline space like long-distance emissions free-flying drones that can fly for up to 4 hours https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IdOdyhNM4uk


This kind of stuff is going to propel its self the standard capitalist way.
Victorian unionised Labor government has been spending money on standard lithium battery 25minute drones to watch over crowds and train rail networks during special events days.
https://7news.com.au/sport/horse-racing ... s-c-531563
https://www.news.com.au/sport/sports-li ... 4b1f394746

Paying union folks to fly drones would be expensive as even entry-level unionised workers are being paid over $110,000 for a 36-hour working week and about $200k for a larger working hour week.
Labourers on the West Gate Tunnel are earning close to $200,000 a year as the building industry warns that wages on state government infrastructure projects are out of control.
Figures from the Master Builders Association of Victoria show an entry level labourer working a basic 36-hour week would be earning $110,000 per year but for the industry standard 56-hour week, they would earn $195,000.
https://www.theage.com.au/national/vict ... 531pz.html

So a drone that can fly for many hours straight would be the cheapest part of the drone flying operation, would not matter at all if these drones were $1million dollars each they would be ultimately cheaper long term due to increased continuous operation hours.
The Victorian state Andrews government has been remarkably wasteful as many have heard about the $1billion spent in contracts to not build a well planned new road set by the previous state government, the only reason the road isn't being built was that it was previously contracted with non-unionized companies.
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-05-21/ ... e/11131572
So for government work etc a fuel-cell drone that can fly for hours straight should take the ENTIRE market because the upfront drone costs are nothing compared to the government emergency worker folks being paid to fly them etc.


But yes, nothing will EVER compare to fossil fuel costs, especially natural gas where a lot of the time you just have to shove a pipe into the ground and you have the energy source on-tap, there will likely NEVER be a way to beat that, especially when you consider how much mining and energy it takes to create lithium cells/solar panels etc.
Speed Kills Range, 10mph = 46 miles range, 20mph = 20 miles, 30mph = 8 miles rangehttps://goo.gl/1JNL53
Over Charging Kills ur battery bit.ly/1hzWKl4
Consider PAS as your only throttle https://goo.gl/Kg1F8F
Fuel-Cell is the ultimate battery coupled with 4th-gen Nuclear
https://goo.gl/TcKtHs https://goo.gl/ZhFFot https://goo.gl/gfa215
10 Square Miles of solar panels = 0.12GW average power! https://goo.gl/Ub1S39

sendler2112   100 kW

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Re: Wind and Solar vs Coal, Gasoline, Nuclear

Post by sendler2112 » Dec 23 2019 1:38pm

Total primary energy by source for Netherlands is 91% coal, oil, and natural gas. Coal consumption is stated to have increased from 2011 to 2016.
https://www.ieabioenergy.com/wp-content ... _final.pdf
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Image
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cricketo   10 kW

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Re: Wind and Solar vs Coal, Gasoline, Nuclear

Post by cricketo » Dec 28 2019 2:48pm

NASA's project on CO2 capture and conversion to Methane :

https://ntrs.nasa.gov/archive/nasa/casi ... 016419.pdf

bmrcfreak   10 mW

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Re: Wind and Solar vs Coal, Gasoline, Nuclear

Post by bmrcfreak » Jan 01 2020 11:54pm


sendler2112   100 kW

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Re: Wind and Solar vs Coal, Gasoline, Nuclear

Post by sendler2112 » Jan 02 2020 6:40am

His experiment. " Suppose you are standing on a bus and it suddenly takes off. You fall backward". He says "because you have just run into a wall of vacuum energy".

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TheBeastie   1 MW

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Re: Wind and Solar vs Coal, Gasoline, Nuclear

Post by TheBeastie » Jan 12 2020 3:25am

I have been saving a few interesting reports in energy lately for the "next page" of this thread... But since HillHater/others have not been on this thread to argue if co2 emissions is linked with climate-change which strictly speaking is not meant to part of this thread, then I guess I may as well post a 3rd time for a thread page.

When I first saw this newly uploaded video on the "gordonmcdowell" nuclear YouTube page I was kind of against the idea,
It appears the "fusion" guys have become interested in a lot of the science/parts of the Molten Salt Fission nuclear reactor technology.
The reason to be hesitant about this is that Fusion is more "whacky unproven"/"yet to yield real results", in the science of generating energy, compared to nuclear MSR which has been proven
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:ORNL ... RE_6Kh.jpg
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Molten-Sa ... #Operation

But all up it does seem like some pretty interesting projects/ideas are being spawned out of it all...
Molten-Salt Fusion Reactors and Molten-Salt Fission Reactors
https://youtu.be/7Yww1AwXf_s
Last edited by TheBeastie on Jan 13 2020 9:43am, edited 1 time in total.
Speed Kills Range, 10mph = 46 miles range, 20mph = 20 miles, 30mph = 8 miles rangehttps://goo.gl/1JNL53
Over Charging Kills ur battery bit.ly/1hzWKl4
Consider PAS as your only throttle https://goo.gl/Kg1F8F
Fuel-Cell is the ultimate battery coupled with 4th-gen Nuclear
https://goo.gl/TcKtHs https://goo.gl/ZhFFot https://goo.gl/gfa215
10 Square Miles of solar panels = 0.12GW average power! https://goo.gl/Ub1S39

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ZeroEm   1 kW

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Re: Wind and Solar vs Coal, Gasoline, Nuclear

Post by ZeroEm » Jan 12 2020 8:25am

Fuel Cells they were useful to distract the public while EV's were being smashed. Fuel Cells are gimmicks, if you forgot it is an EV with a generator on board. So how does it replace EV's?
2019 Performer E-Trike 9w/km
2013 Nissan Leaf S 8 bars 328.306w/KM

Hillhater   100 GW

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Re: Wind and Solar vs Coal, Gasoline, Nuclear

Post by Hillhater » Jan 13 2020 6:27am

TheBeastie wrote:
Jan 12 2020 3:25am
..... But since HillHater/others have not been on this thread to argue if co2 emissions is linked with climate-change which strictly speaking is not meant to part of this thread, then I guess I may as well post a 3rd time for a thread page.
......
...Things have been a little “hot” around here lately !
I have been dodging bushfires, no power , no internet, no phones, no roads out ! ... one hell of a Xmas and new year ! :shock:
Now we have a bunch of F..wit Politicians and instant climate experts claiming that climate change ( increase in CO2 etc) is the cause of unstoppable forrest inferno’s, rather than the bleedin’ obvious RESULT of such fires. :roll:
This forum owes its existence to Justin of ebikes.ca

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Dauntless   100 GW

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Re: Wind and Solar vs Coal, Gasoline, Nuclear

Post by Dauntless » Jan 13 2020 8:07pm

Hillhater wrote:
Jan 13 2020 6:27am
Now we have a bunch of F..wit Politicians and instant climate experts claiming that climate change ( increase in CO2 etc) is the cause of unstoppable forrest inferno’s, rather than the bleedin’ obvious RESULT of such fires. :roll:
Its called a 'Personal Agenda.' Its all about what mileage they can benefit from if they lie to you. As Rahm Emanuel said, "Never let a perfectly good crisis go to waste."
Any sufficiently advanced technology is INDISTINGUISHABLE FROM MAGIC!
- Arthur C. Clarke

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Re: Wind and Solar vs Coal, Gasoline, Nuclear

Post by Ohbse » Jan 13 2020 9:11pm

Hillhater wrote:
Jan 13 2020 6:27am
...Things have been a little “hot” around here lately !
I have been dodging bushfires, no power , no internet, no phones, no roads out ! ... one hell of a Xmas and new year ! :shock:
Now we have a bunch of F..wit Politicians and instant climate experts claiming that climate change ( increase in CO2 etc) is the cause of unstoppable forrest inferno’s, rather than the bleedin’ obvious RESULT of such fires. :roll:
Sorry to hear about your experience mate, all the best for 2020 getting better. We got a tiny taste of the fire fallout over here and it really brought it home how awful it must be for Aus.

On topic, I would argue that CO2 is both a contributing factor and an output of the fires. A huge reason why everything's going up so easily is lack of water, that's a specific predicted outcome from climate modelling. Increased rainfall variability causes both catastrophic drought and flooding, worsening consequences from the natural fire cycle. That combined with some particularly incompetent government who dramatically reduced front line fire prevention :(

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Re: Wind and Solar vs Coal, Gasoline, Nuclear

Post by Hillhater » Jan 13 2020 10:11pm

Ohbse wrote:
Jan 13 2020 9:11pm
.... I would argue that CO2 is both a contributing factor and an output of the fires. A huge reason why everything's going up so easily is lack of water, that's a specific predicted outcome from climate modelling. Increased rainfall variability causes both catastrophic drought and flooding, worsening consequences from the natural fire cycle. That combined with some particularly incompetent government who dramatically reduced front line fire prevention :(
If there is one thing that most folk know about Oz , its that it is a land renowned for its drought, fire, and floods !
The current drought and temperatures are no more extreme than those previously experienced.
If you check where the main bushfires are/were , youwill find they are mostly East coast NSW and Victoria ,...not areas that are currently subject to extreme drought
The common comment from those at the front line ( not the Pollies or Scientists !), is that the main difference now is the “fuel load” available to the fires in the Parks and State forests..much of it “green” (but still highly flamable ), live undergrowth....and v strong variable winds.
The Country has experienced much worse, more extensive, more damaging, more deadly, bushfires in the past ,...way before CO2 levels became the focus of idle minds.
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jonescg   1.21 GW

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Re: Wind and Solar vs Coal, Gasoline, Nuclear

Post by jonescg » Jan 13 2020 10:37pm

Hillhater wrote:
Jan 13 2020 10:11pm

The current drought and temperatures are no more extreme than those previously experienced.
http://www.bom.gov.au/climate/current/annual/aus/

But yeah, they're just a bunch of pinkos.

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Re: Wind and Solar vs Coal, Gasoline, Nuclear

Post by Hillhater » Jan 13 2020 11:18pm

jonescg wrote:
Jan 13 2020 10:37pm
........
http://www.bom.gov.au/climate/current/annual/aus/
But yeah, they're just a bunch of pinkos.
...Ahhh ! , yes the BOM.....Bureau Of Misinformation !.....never known to adjust the data to suit the required outcome ! much,.. :roll:
Ever wondered why the BOM have altered historic temperature records DOWNWARDS.. twice ! ..
...and refuse to disclose why or what methodology they used ?
Why did they pick 1961 - 1990 as the reference period ? ( a notably cool period)
Remember the old caution...
....” there are Lies, damm Lies, and Statistics !”
2019 was Australia's warmest year on record. Australia's area-averaged mean temperature for 2019 was 1.52 °C above the 1961–1990 average, ......
...... The national temperature dataset commences in 1910.
...you can work wonders with “Averages”. !
And How convenient that the BOM records only start in 1910 ?...when temp and rainfall data was being recorded from the mid 1800,s ...but then that would have included the “millenial drought” of 1896-1902 and other similar events pre 1900.
But , as i said the drought and temperatures are no more extreme than have been previously experienced.
The 1939 drought was much worse and temperatures were higher than those seen during these recent fires.
..(much of the fires rapid advance was under the Southerly change winds which were often below 20C)
But, if you really think that 1-2 C can make the difference between a local burn, and an uncontrollable bushfire, then OK... but there are bigger factors at play to make that big difference
This forum owes its existence to Justin of ebikes.ca

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Re: Wind and Solar vs Coal, Gasoline, Nuclear

Post by boars » Jan 14 2020 1:20am

TheBeastie wrote:
Dec 22 2019 2:33am
Paying union folks to fly drones would be expensive as even entry-level unionised workers are being paid over $110,000 for a 36-hour working week and about $200k for a larger working hour week.
Labourers on the West Gate Tunnel are earning close to $200,000 a year as the building industry warns that wages on state government infrastructure projects are out of control.
Figures from the Master Builders Association of Victoria show an entry level labourer working a basic 36-hour week would be earning $110,000 per year but for the industry standard 56-hour week, they would earn $195,000.
https://www.theage.com.au/national/vict ... 531pz.html

So a drone that can fly for many hours straight would be the cheapest part of the drone flying operation, would not matter at all if these drones were $1million dollars each they would be ultimately cheaper long term due to increased continuous operation hours.
The Victorian state Andrews government has been remarkably wasteful as many have heard about the $1billion spent in contracts to not build a well planned new road set by the previous state government, the only reason the road isn't being built was that it was previously contracted with non-unionized companies.
Why would you quote labourers on a certain project? Are you suggesting they're laboring to get them off the ground? </dad joke>
Those are not the staff that are flying the drones for your events and the like.

There's perfectly good wage information available: https://cpsuvic.org/member/vps-wage-rates.php

Wages start at 47K per year, not 110K. They won't get bonus pay for working a longer week in most instances also, they'll probably earn FLEX or TOIL (time off in lieu).

Liberal or labour it makes zero difference, these are the negotiated wages with the unions for your standard public service staff, which most likely includes your drone pilots. Frankly though, it's highly likely such operations would get outsourced and cost even more money.

No matter what drone/engine tech is used, people cost money, yes.
That's certainly one of the reasons why manufacturing in this country is so shafted, we aren't cheap to hire.

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