My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Discussions related to motors other than hub motors.
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SpeedHunter   1 mW

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Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by SpeedHunter » Oct 30 2019 7:16am

Tjeska wrote:
Oct 29 2019 3:30pm
Got message today from Grace:

One AM1000 XL, Magura brakes, Lyrik fork, Sram EX-1 & gear sensor, 48V 21AH pack ready for shipment!

Image

Cant wait until its here, got a great custom decal set ready and a dropper post for it!
Have some other mods in mind for it once its here. :D
Interesting that you got the XL, how tall are you?

SpeedHunter   1 mW

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Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by SpeedHunter » Oct 30 2019 7:27am

Hey guys,

I requested a front and rear light from Frey, these are what they have, thoughts?

Not a huge fan of the rear option, looks like it could break off.



Image

Image

Tjeska   10 W

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Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by Tjeska » Oct 30 2019 10:43am

SpeedHunter wrote:
Oct 30 2019 7:16am
Tjeska wrote:
Oct 29 2019 3:30pm
Got message today from Grace:

One AM1000 XL, Magura brakes, Lyrik fork, Sram EX-1 & gear sensor, 48V 21AH pack ready for shipment!

Image

Cant wait until its here, got a great custom decal set ready and a dropper post for it!
Have some other mods in mind for it once its here. :D
Interesting that you got the XL, how tall are you?
196cm tall :wink:

18650   10 mW

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Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by 18650 » Oct 30 2019 12:37pm

do 29" wheels fit on the AM1000?
robocam wrote:
Oct 29 2019 5:56pm
...
For the non-fat version, if you want to try 29" wheels, you can get an entire DT Swiss wheelset for $250 shipped! Unfortunately it doesn't have a Shimano compatible hub though.

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robocam   10 kW

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Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by robocam » Oct 30 2019 1:53pm

I have a 29" wheelset. I'll check. But it should definitely fit the fork. 29" and 27.5"+ are close in outer diameter. If they fit, that will be nice because they should offer significantly less rolling resistance. Here's some info about rolling resistance.

https://www.bicyclerollingresistance.com/mtb-reviews

According to this comparison, the difference in outer diameter between these particular 27.5 x 3 and a 29 x 2.3 tires is 5/8", so that 29" tire will extend 0.3" more into the frame.

https://forums.mtbr.com/26-27-5-29-plus ... st12585348

I know road wheels (same wheel size as 29") with 28mm wide tires will fit because I have a set on my 26" mountain bike. I'm actually planning to put road wheels on my AM1000 so that I can use it to keep up with my road friends.
18650 wrote:
Oct 30 2019 12:37pm
do 29" wheels fit on the AM1000?

batboy   10 µW

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Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by batboy » Oct 30 2019 10:53pm

Can someone with a medium AM1000 measure from the ground to the lowest point on the frame? I'm seeing similar bikes on Alibaba with a M frame that measure about 70cm. With shoes on, I should have about ~1inch of clearance (28" inseam)?

FlyingFinn   100 W

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Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by FlyingFinn » Oct 31 2019 4:13pm

Got today confirmation from the bikeshop. Rear hub’s freewheel had failed on my two-week-old FAT1000. New better quality DT Swiss hub was 259€ and replacement work including new spokes only 78€ which is a bargain.

Contacted Frey today concerning the return of the hub.

formula101   1 kW

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Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by formula101 » Oct 31 2019 4:22pm

FlyingFinn wrote:
Oct 31 2019 4:13pm
Got today confirmation from the bikeshop. Rear hub’s freewheel had failed on my two-week-old FAT1000. New better quality DT Swiss hub was 259€ and replacement work including new spokes only 78€ which is a bargain.

Contacted Frey today concerning the return of the hub.
What do you think a fair resolution is?

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Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by FlyingFinn » Oct 31 2019 4:29pm

formula101 wrote:
Oct 31 2019 4:22pm
What do you think a fair resolution is?
Good question... Maybe to refund the price of the original chinese rear hub and the costs of the replacement (78€). De Facto a Swiss DT hub is an upgrade and replacement at the same time. I can’t seem to wonder why Frey has decided to use cheap rear hubs. With 160Nm of torque it’s a recipe for disaster...

formula101   1 kW

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Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by formula101 » Oct 31 2019 7:04pm

$3K is an incredibly competitive price for a full suspension bike with the specs that it has. They obviously can't spec top of the line components throughout, that would drive the price up exponentially. The question is, are there enough component failures to say these parts are unreliable? A single failure is not really evidence of a broader trend, or else we'd be reading about them here and elsewhere with greater frequency.

Every last model of e-bike I've researched has had it's share of broken components and frames, defective controllers, batteries and motors in significant number.

Oddly, some of the most expensive, like Stromers, seem to be the least reliable of all!

FREYebikes   100 W

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Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by FREYebikes » Oct 31 2019 9:51pm

We have sold many full suspension fat bikes, this is first case claim there is some problem with the rear hub but without any description or any photo to show us how the situation is, we can't do any support under this kind of case.

formula101   1 kW

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Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by formula101 » Oct 31 2019 10:10pm

LOL, I sure hope for their sake Frey doesn't scam you on customer service. It would prove my point, but....

https://electricbikereview.com/forum/th ... 403/page-2

It's getting heated over on the EBR forum, too:

ebay used to be where people sold their second hand BS. Now it's just a front for China importers. And they knock off EVERYTHING!!!!

No matter how hard they try, a leopard can't change it's spots.

Hardcore   100 W

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Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by Hardcore » Nov 01 2019 1:50am

As said before, I had a hub break on me on an earlier model of the am1000 (I believe it had a different hub than the quanta you mention) and FREY was very helpful in resolving the issue after I contacted them with the pictures. I decided also to get refunded for the rear hub and I would buy myself a more expensive locally sourced wheelset. That's more leniency than most sellers have shown me.

That said, I read this thread and I can understand the frustration when parts fail, but it happens and good that you let the community know. It is, however, more effective to go through the warranty process of any failed product with the seller. Most likely your internals are broken, hence you can't take a picture what's broken without opening it. I am curious to see how it looks, please upload the pictures once you get them.

Considering that Frey says they sold many bikes and only a few cases of broken hubs these are adequate hubs. In fact, I'm buying myself another frey bike and I am not worried about the quality of the bikes. At this price point there's no alternative ultra powered bike with these components and for a china based company I'm extremely satisfied with the prompt handling of warranties and after sales service I received for the few cases I had in the last 18 months.

FlyingFinn   100 W

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Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by FlyingFinn » Nov 01 2019 8:08am

Hardcore wrote:
Nov 01 2019 1:50am
As said before, I had a hub break on me on an earlier model of the am1000 (I believe it had a different hub than the quanta you mention) and FREY was very helpful in resolving the issue after I contacted them with the pictures. I decided also to get refunded for the rear hub and I would buy myself a more expensive locally sourced wheelset. That's more leniency than most sellers have shown me.

That said, I read this thread and I can understand the frustration when parts fail, but it happens and good that you let the community know. It is, however, more effective to go through the warranty process of any failed product with the seller. Most likely your internals are broken, hence you can't take a picture what's broken without opening it. I am curious to see how it looks, please upload the pictures once you get them.

Considering that Frey says they sold many bikes and only a few cases of broken hubs these are adequate hubs. In fact, I'm buying myself another frey bike and I am not worried about the quality of the bikes. At this price point there's no alternative ultra powered bike with these components and for a china based company I'm extremely satisfied with the prompt handling of warranties and after sales service I received for the few cases I had in the last 18 months.
Thx for your insight! As I've understood Quanta is just a generic chinese brand sold mainly in AliBaba. I don't know if it's ''a real company''.

Picture of the opened hub: https://aijaa.com/1LT8CB

I'm not the first one facing this issue with Quanta 190mm https://forums.mtbr.com/fat-bikes/quant ... 60470.html
Last edited by FlyingFinn on Nov 01 2019 9:29am, edited 1 time in total.

Hardcore   100 W

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Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by Hardcore » Nov 01 2019 8:50am

I tried to look for a thread on how I can remedy my hub without buying a new one and found no such thing. Hence I assumed it wasn't too common of a failure or not worthwhile to repair.

That thread seems a few years old and gives a possible reason for the failure. Premature failure usually indicates wrong machining or assembly and luckily an uncommon event.

I am sure that your new hub will be more than adequate and wish you many enjoyfull miles. These bikes are supposed to give smiles on our faces.

Qwurdi   1 µW

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Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by Qwurdi » Nov 01 2019 3:54pm

FREYebikes wrote:
Mar 10 2018 4:02am

About IGH, we will follow it and maybe try some on our bike in the near future, after confirm some suitable model. as I known, it should be customized to match the frame. At present, belt is impossible to use, as bafang supply the specific strengthen crank wheel not fit for belt. only for chain.

Hi Ivy!
Have a look at this bike, it does have the bafang ultra max, rohloff and gates belt! It is possible!
https://www.orangebc.com/de/produkte/fa ... ssung.html

Posting this here, although id love to see it on the Frey EX bike
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image

Surely it would be a major price bump, but it would also be a Supernice quality improvement.

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scrambler   100 W

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Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by scrambler » Nov 01 2019 4:44pm

That is my ideal combination :)
If Frey could do that at a more reasonable price, it would be very exciting :)

coolminty   100 µW

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Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by coolminty » Nov 01 2019 5:23pm

I am also still waiting for a Belt + IGH combo. It also appears that the competition is also slowing stepping into Freys territory with their higher torque & higher speed offerings that were one of the reasons I considered Frey to begin with. I am happy to pass on a Rohloff hub for cost reasons but there are plenty more known brand offerings out there. Enviolo for example.

I have paused buying a new bike until this offering is available.

I also think the price bump wouldn't be to far off it is now if paired with a reasonably priced IGH.
Qwurdi wrote:
Nov 01 2019 3:54pm
FREYebikes wrote:
Mar 10 2018 4:02am

About IGH, we will follow it and maybe try some on our bike in the near future, after confirm some suitable model. as I known, it should be customized to match the frame. At present, belt is impossible to use, as bafang supply the specific strengthen crank wheel not fit for belt. only for chain.

Hi Ivy!
Have a look at this bike, it does have the bafang ultra max, rohloff and gates belt! It is possible!
https://www.orangebc.com/de/produkte/fa ... ssung.html

Posting this here, although id love to see it on the Frey EX bike
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image

Surely it would be a major price bump, but it would also be a Supernice quality improvement.

cscscs   100 mW

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Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by cscscs » Nov 01 2019 6:33pm

[/quote]
Have a look at this bike, it does have the bafang ultra max, rohloff and gates belt! It is possible!
[/quote]

Ironically, in the context of the OPs rear hub failure, the Ultra motor has a clutch on the primary gear assembly that couples the pedal-crank to the output that is essentially just a basic 3-pawl freewheel. I know because I have had to replace two of them in my Ultra motor within the first 1500 miles. I now believe that the root cause was crank-strikes which I have now remedied by replacing the horribly long Bafang cranks with 155mm Miranda and have not had that problem since. The point being, I would be hesitant to commit to a bike mating the Rohloff to the Ultra, preferring instead to see an IGH mated to a more contemporary design using a sprag type clutch on the pedal-crank as in the m600 (but then the m600 has a proprietary crank - which is a discussion in another topic in this forum). Also, in addition to the strength (or lack thereof) of a basic pawl-type hub, another major consideration is the low points-of-engagement. One of the benefits of the Rohloff is the high engagement. So even a high-quality hub with sprag-type mechanism or very high POE is going to be a big improvement on a 3-pawl unit. For example check these out: https://onyxrp.com/product-category/mtb-hubs/

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Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by FREYebikes » Nov 01 2019 10:05pm

Hi,

QUANTA is a Taiwan based hub company also supply higher level hubs for MTB.
Just checked your pictures, can't see obvious problem or damage from the picture, but I trust that you thought something problem in the hub so you sent your bike check and repair in bike shop. I noticed that your hub is with 32holes, we have strengthen both mountain bike hub and fat bike hub inside and come with 36 holes following instead of earlier 32 holes.
if 36 holes updated hub to you is OK, we can offer a replacement hub for you to change. or refund reasonable cost you replace some other hub you think reliable is also OK.
About the link you put, that is in 2015, more than 4 years ago, not same hub, it is not comparable.

Anyway, we are always keeping improving details in all factors. any problem or issue is also improving possibility location.
Thank you for your attention and your feedback.
FlyingFinn wrote:
Nov 01 2019 8:08am
Hardcore wrote:
Nov 01 2019 1:50am
As said before, I had a hub break on me on an earlier model of the am1000 (I believe it had a different hub than the quanta you mention) and FREY was very helpful in resolving the issue after I contacted them with the pictures. I decided also to get refunded for the rear hub and I would buy myself a more expensive locally sourced wheelset. That's more leniency than most sellers have shown me.

That said, I read this thread and I can understand the frustration when parts fail, but it happens and good that you let the community know. It is, however, more effective to go through the warranty process of any failed product with the seller. Most likely your internals are broken, hence you can't take a picture what's broken without opening it. I am curious to see how it looks, please upload the pictures once you get them.

Considering that Frey says they sold many bikes and only a few cases of broken hubs these are adequate hubs. In fact, I'm buying myself another frey bike and I am not worried about the quality of the bikes. At this price point there's no alternative ultra powered bike with these components and for a china based company I'm extremely satisfied with the prompt handling of warranties and after sales service I received for the few cases I had in the last 18 months.
Thx for your insight! As I've understood Quanta is just a generic chinese brand sold mainly in AliBaba. I don't know if it's ''a real company''.

Picture of the opened hub: https://aijaa.com/1LT8CB

I'm not the first one facing this issue with Quanta 190mm https://forums.mtbr.com/fat-bikes/quant ... 60470.html

FREYebikes   100 W

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Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by FREYebikes » Nov 01 2019 10:24pm

I see the link, thank you.
We will check something more to see what is possible to proceed in the near future about this kind of request.
Qwurdi wrote:
Nov 01 2019 3:54pm
FREYebikes wrote:
Mar 10 2018 4:02am

About IGH, we will follow it and maybe try some on our bike in the near future, after confirm some suitable model. as I known, it should be customized to match the frame. At present, belt is impossible to use, as bafang supply the specific strengthen crank wheel not fit for belt. only for chain.

Hi Ivy!
Have a look at this bike, it does have the bafang ultra max, rohloff and gates belt! It is possible!
https://www.orangebc.com/de/produkte/fa ... ssung.html

Posting this here, although id love to see it on the Frey EX bike
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image

Surely it would be a major price bump, but it would also be a Supernice quality improvement.

Sinbord1981   100 W

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Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by Sinbord1981 » Nov 02 2019 7:58am

Removal, strip down, re-grease and reassembly of the Bafang Ultra GS510.1000 motor in my Frey AM1000 eBike in a bid to reduce noise. Don't try this at home! It will invalidate your warranty for one and your eBike might not work again when you put it all back together. Not sure if this link will work for you to my FaceBook page otherwise the YouTube link further below should do:

https://www.facebook.com/AdrenalineEbik ... 154165020/



I did this for three main reasons:
1. I wanted to see what it was like inside. I've always loved taking things apart and putting them back together. I do normally end up with a few bits left over though but I should point out I'm a qualified engineer (Masters degree in Electronic & Electrical Engineering).
2. On one of my earlier videos a few people said Bafang don't particularly grease the motor very well in the factory and it needs cleaning out and re-filling with Mobile SHC100. Well that's rubbish in my opinion. I've been to the factory and seen them make their motors. I spoke to the Bafang engineers; they test every one and they are essentially sealed for life. They just don't go wrong. I stripped mine down and did it anyway though.
3. I did it for you! The video demonstrates I can drop a motor out of the frame and reinstall it. If there are ever any warranty issues with motors for my customers in the UK, I can deal with it and replace it (however unlikely that is).

You really do NOT need to do this. My motor is now really super quiet however. A lot of the noise picked up in video depends on where and how you mount the video camera. I had mine mounted on the handlebars which picks up a lot of inductive noise through the frame of the bike that you simply don't hear in the real world when riding.
Watch it all the same as it's still interesting to see it inside.

FlyingFinn   100 W

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Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by FlyingFinn » Nov 02 2019 8:31am

Sinbord1981 wrote:
Nov 02 2019 7:58am
Removal, strip down, re-grease and reassembly of the Bafang Ultra GS510.1000 motor in my Frey AM1000 eBike in a bid to reduce noise. Don't try this at home! It will invalidate your warranty for one and your eBike might not work again when you put it all back together. Not sure if this link will work for you to my FaceBook page otherwise the YouTube link further below should do:

https://www.facebook.com/AdrenalineEbik ... 154165020/



I did this for three main reasons:
1. I wanted to see what it was like inside. I've always loved taking things apart and putting them back together. I do normally end up with a few bits left over though but I should point out I'm a qualified engineer (Masters degree in Electronic & Electrical Engineering).
2. On one of my earlier videos a few people said Bafang don't particularly grease the motor very well in the factory and it needs cleaning out and re-filling with Mobile SHC100. Well that's rubbish in my opinion. I've been to the factory and seen them make their motors. I spoke to the Bafang engineers; they test every one and they are essentially sealed for life. They just don't go wrong. I stripped mine down and did it anyway though.
3. I did it for you! The video demonstrates I can drop a motor out of the frame and reinstall it. If there are ever any warranty issues with motors for my customers in the UK, I can deal with it and replace it (however unlikely that is).

You really do NOT need to do this. My motor is now really super quiet however. A lot of the noise picked up in video depends on where and how you mount the video camera. I had mine mounted on the handlebars which picks up a lot of inductive noise through the frame of the bike that you simply don't hear in the real world when riding.
Watch it all the same as it's still interesting to see it inside.
An interesting hack and a well made video. Now I can estimate the amount of grease without opening my own motor. Most likely this amount the motor comes with won’t cause any trouble in cold. For people who use their bikes in sub-zero conditions might want rather to remove or lessen the amount of grease and possibly replace it with silicone oil or any other runny lubricant. Grease becomes like a playdough in -10 C.

FlyingFinn   100 W

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Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by FlyingFinn » Nov 02 2019 11:25am

FREYebikes wrote:
Nov 01 2019 10:05pm
Hi,

QUANTA is a Taiwan based hub company also supply higher level hubs for MTB.
Just checked your pictures, can't see obvious problem or damage from the picture, but I trust that you thought something problem in the hub so you sent your bike check and repair in bike shop. I noticed that your hub is with 32holes, we have strengthen both mountain bike hub and fat bike hub inside and come with 36 holes following instead of earlier 32 holes.
if 36 holes updated hub to you is OK, we can offer a replacement hub for you to change. or refund reasonable cost you replace some other hub you think reliable is also OK.
About the link you put, that is in 2015, more than 4 years ago, not same hub, it is not comparable.

Anyway, we are always keeping improving details in all factors. any problem or issue is also improving possibility location.
Thank you for your attention and your feedback.
I don’t know if installing a 36-hole hub to a 32-hole rim is even possible? I would have to buy a new rim as well...

Since I have already bought a new hub for 259€ and replacement work for 78€(receipt provided to you in AliBaba). I’m proposing a refund of 200€/224$.

Tjeska   10 W

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Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by Tjeska » Nov 02 2019 11:44am

Sinbord1981 wrote:
Nov 02 2019 7:58am
Removal, strip down, re-grease and reassembly of the Bafang Ultra GS510.1000 motor in my Frey AM1000 eBike in a bid to reduce noise.
Thx, for making the video nicely done!

By the looks of it I don't think that the motor is "under lubricated", it looks right.
The one thing thats difficult to say is, what kind of quality grease they use...

Will change mine out after some months of riding just to be sure.

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