Serious FOCer (84V VESC 6 based controller)

Electric Motors and Controllers
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shaman   1 kW

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Re: Serious FOCer (84V VESC 6 based controller)

Post by shaman » Sep 06 2019 8:14pm

cheapcookie wrote:
Sep 06 2019 7:36pm
Hey, I am interested in a few of these puppies, what's the state of the project ?
Still in design review. I keep coming up with different ways to skin this cat (engineering ADD) and then tossing those designs at @marcos to review. I'm hopefully on the last design revision that I'll do and annoy @marcos with.

For this latest design revision, think TI's booster packs and MSP430 combo. 2 boards connected over/under style with headers but mine is also mechanically reinforced with screws. That's all I'm sharing for now until I tease you guys with another shitty render.
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cheapcookie   100 W

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Re: Serious FOCer (84V VESC 6 based controller)

Post by cheapcookie » Sep 07 2019 5:29pm

shaman do you have a brand ? This is a commercial venture correct ?

shaman   1 kW

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Re: Serious FOCer (84V VESC 6 based controller)

Post by shaman » Sep 08 2019 8:45am

Yes I'll be looking to sell this commercially. I do have a domain and business email setup now but I wouldn't say I have a "brand" built.
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john61ct   100 GW

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Re: Serious FOCer (84V VESC 6 based controller)

Post by john61ct » Sep 08 2019 9:52am

Can this design be adapted to 48-54V range packs, for very low speed but **very** high torque output?

What would be the biggest phase amps output range in that scenario?

Biggest battery amps draw?

Context: viewtopic.php?f=14&t=102203&p=1495384#p1495384

shaman   1 kW

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Re: Serious FOCer (84V VESC 6 based controller)

Post by shaman » Sep 08 2019 12:30pm

@john61ct my first post answers your voltage question.
shaman wrote:
Mar 15 2019 9:44am
Features:
  • 15V to 84V operation
Max motor phase amps will hopefully be around 150Arms peak and 75Arms continuous for the Serious FOCer. Max battery amps would be similar in the same regard. Amps will determine the torque output of the motor. You're motor would hopefully have a torque constant, a value from its datasheet, that allows you to calculate the amount of torque produced based on how many amps are flowing through it. I don't know what you consider "high" torque. Torque requirements for your particular situation will become a classic statics and dynamics problem. You have weight, incline/decline grade, gear ratio, speed, air resistance, wheel diameter, ect to account for. There are ebike calculators out there that could help with this.
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john61ct   100 GW

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Re: Serious FOCer (84V VESC 6 based controller)

Post by john61ct » Sep 08 2019 1:10pm

OK thanks.

That whole Features list is blanked out in Tapatalk, but launch in browser, renders fine

That is double the Phaserunner ampacity, so hopefully enough

shaman   1 kW

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Re: Serious FOCer (84V VESC 6 based controller)

Post by shaman » Sep 08 2019 1:15pm

john61ct wrote:
Sep 08 2019 1:10pm
That is double the Phaserunner ampacity, so hopefully enough
Yeah thanks to using TO-247s. The estimations I'm giving are what I'm hoping for. Empirical testing will reveal what they actually are when I make prototypes.
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Re: Serious FOCer (84V VESC 6 based controller)

Post by cheapcookie » Sep 09 2019 1:02am

Do you plan on having stock around 2020? Haven't looked much at the github, is there beta test ready stuff?

Image

shaman   1 kW

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Re: Serious FOCer (84V VESC 6 based controller)

Post by shaman » Sep 09 2019 7:01am

Hopefully I have these to market at the end of fourth quarter this year. Maybe just in time to snag the holiday season!

So far I've only use my GitHub repository for my open source hardware stuff like the cheap focer. most likely my GitHub will only have the firmware and schematics for my commercial products.

There aren't any beta units available yet. I'm still moving through this design review with @Marcos. I have to finish up that design from that render you found and then see what Marcos has to say about it. Hopefully this will be the one. After the design review is completed, I'll create a prototype for my own analysis. I'll take it to the lab and do some basic tests. after I get some good data and have made any necessary changes to the design, I'll look at creating some beta units. Beta testing will be no joke this time around. Serious contenders only.
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Amiran   10 W

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Re: Serious FOCer (84V VESC 6 based controller)

Post by Amiran » Sep 24 2019 9:02am

Shaman,

Would like your thoughts on testing your foc unit with hub motor QS 205 3.5T in 20 inch moto wheel with 120A max battery current peaks and 60-80a continuous.

If cheapo old tech 24F controller survived this, your s should do with 12Fets? No?

I am located in UK and happy to take a part.

Thanks

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Re: Serious FOCer (84V VESC 6 based controller)

Post by shaman » Sep 24 2019 11:22am

This could be in the territory of this TO-247 controller but you will need some really good cooling. What voltage are you running?
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Amiran   10 W

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Re: Serious FOCer (84V VESC 6 based controller)

Post by Amiran » Sep 25 2019 2:51pm

Hi Shaman,
Running now 11s but looking to build 13s soon.

I am sorry to ask I do not know vescs very well yet, will the controller turn the power down if it overheats?

What part will get damaged for overheat due to over current?

Would it be to mosfets?

What I'm trying to say here would it be possible to have quick soldering fix, upsize the cooling and get back on the road?

Thanks

shaman   1 kW

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Re: Serious FOCer (84V VESC 6 based controller)

Post by shaman » Sep 25 2019 3:15pm

Yes my controller will do thermal throttling and even thermal shutdown based on the measured temperature of the mosfet case. These thermal thresholds can be set by the user but I would recommend using the default values.

Yes the components most likely to take damage from over current or over temperature would be the mosfets. Yes I intentionally designed with through-hole package mosfets to make repair easier among other benefits such as easier heat sinking
Last edited by shaman on Sep 25 2019 7:02pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Amiran   10 W

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Re: Serious FOCer (84V VESC 6 based controller)

Post by Amiran » Sep 25 2019 3:38pm

Sounds right and practical too.
Easy repairs are good thing when you are experimenting.
Let me know if we can arrange something.
Thanks.

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Re: Serious FOCer (84V VESC 6 based controller)

Post by shaman » Oct 05 2019 11:39am

:!: UPDATE

Design review was concluded. Thank you very much @marcos for your design review services! I've learned a great amount from that experience.

I've ordered the boards and BOM components to make an initial prototype. The holiday in China slowed down the orders a bit but all should arrive next week.

I'll be assembling the prototype and analyzing it in the lab like I did with my Cheap FOCer. Once issues/changes have been identified, I'll make the revisions to the design and place orders for materials for the beta units.
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shaman   1 kW

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Re: Serious FOCer (84V VESC 6 based controller)

Post by shaman » Oct 10 2019 11:35am

I'll have the prototyping materials delivered by the end of today. I'm borrowing a reflow oven from a friend for the weekend. Gunna set up the development environment for the VESC firmware/software tomorrow.
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Re: Serious FOCer (84V VESC 6 based controller)

Post by coleasterling » Oct 10 2019 5:25pm

Excited to see how it turns out!

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Re: Serious FOCer (84V VESC 6 based controller)

Post by shaman » Oct 14 2019 9:38am

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Alright. Got it soldered up. Had to fix a couple of stupid mistakes (wrong pinout for crystal, no power to the IMU, ect). I haven’t powered it up yet. I think I’ll leave that for this week when I can get to the lab with a current limiting power supply. Better play it safe.

Until then I’m working on the code. It’s been a copy/paste operation so far with what Mr. Vedder has already written.

Also the connector panel is a flimsy piece of crap. Gunna get rid of that nonsense and put horizontal JST connectors in a over/under configuration on the edge of the control board. This will raise the overall height by about 4mm but I think it’s worth it.
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Re: Serious FOCer (84V VESC 6 based controller)

Post by coleasterling » Oct 14 2019 5:05pm

I was reading along and looking at pictures and thought, "Dang, that end board looks sketchy." Great thought, but I agree, probably better to move away from it unless you could make some sort of bracket to screw it to the other board.

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Re: Serious FOCer (84V VESC 6 based controller)

Post by shaman » Oct 15 2019 6:13pm

less shitty connectors.JPG
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Ok. This should do better for connectors in the beta units.
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Re: Serious FOCer (84V VESC 6 based controller)

Post by john61ct » Oct 15 2019 6:21pm

A single block however many pins needed, custom pigtail pinout spec'd for common connectors, maybe the "adapter" sold as an option in various lengths.

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Re: Serious FOCer (84V VESC 6 based controller)

Post by shaman » Oct 15 2019 6:32pm

@john61ct I like the adapter idea for the ebike crowd. Might be tricky to figure out how to work that in...
Maybe simply JST to "insert common ebike connector here" adapter pigtails?
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john61ct   100 GW

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Re: Serious FOCer (84V VESC 6 based controller)

Post by john61ct » Oct 15 2019 8:14pm

They aren't robust enough physically IMO.

The ones that are similar to what used to be used for robust "ribbon cables" on PC boards internally,

probably designed for 6-8A rather than JST's what, 3A?

Something where the crimping doesn't look for a $50 tool

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Re: Serious FOCer (84V VESC 6 based controller)

Post by fechter » Oct 16 2019 8:33am

shaman wrote:
Oct 15 2019 6:13pm
Ok. This should do better for connectors in the beta units.
That looks pretty good to me. Much better than the separate end board.
"One test is worth a thousand opinions"

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Re: Serious FOCer (84V VESC 6 based controller)

Post by coleasterling » Oct 16 2019 10:41am

Yep, I like it.

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