My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Discussions related to motors other than hub motors.
This includes R/C motors, botttom bracket, roller and geared drives.
Marmalade   100 mW

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Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by Marmalade » Aug 12 2019 9:37pm

cscscs wrote:
Aug 11 2019 1:39pm
I also noticed that the outer bearings - especially on the drive side - have no seals - only a shield - so not very well protected from the elements and the outer bearing on the first primary gear that I replaced (with the freewheel) was developing a fair amount of corrosion. I'm convinced washing the bike with water generally does more harm than good and try to just dry brush and wipe down when possible.
Agree. However the dust covers can easily be removed with a thin knife blade to do a periodic bearing clean and regrease without removing the motor.. It's pretty amazing how much muck gets in those and the suspension pivot bearings.

Also the large dia bearing on the motors clutch gear seems to be pressed in too tightly... my previous motor had the inner race spinning on the torque sensor retainer housing. A bit of blue loctite stopped it.

And the 3 pawl clutch/freehubs....you should have seen the state of the ones that were/replaced, def not made to cope with 1kw. Weakest parts of the whole bike imo and prone to eventual failure if used carelessly above eco3.

Having said that it's a great bike. I've seen just as many mechanical woes with brand name e-mtbs.

cscscs   100 mW

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Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by cscscs » Aug 13 2019 4:08am

Marmalade wrote:
Aug 12 2019 9:37pm
cscscs wrote:
Aug 11 2019 1:39pm
And the 3 pawl clutch/freehubs....you should have seen the state of the ones that were/replaced, def not made to cope with 1kw. Weakest parts of the whole bike imo and prone to eventual failure if used carelessly above eco3.
No question - the freewheel is the weak link. Freewheel failure has nothing to do with the assist level or the power of the motor, however, as the freewheel is only subjected to the forces applied to the pedals. If anything, higher assist levels might even mitigate the situation by reducing the force (as torque) required to move the works.

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Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by barbarossa » Aug 13 2019 7:43am

cscscs wrote:
Aug 11 2019 1:39pm
...When it was new it was a bit louder than I had expected and I read about the grease issue so cracked it open to have a look and it was definitely lacking grease. I got some Mobilgrease 28 which is supposed to cling to the gears better...
i am really sorry for your problems...this must be frustrating...

regarding the grease i saw a lot of guys using Mobilgrease 28 for the BBSHD/BBS02 etc. they put as much in it as possible and it seems to be ok. bafang ultra motor has no nylon gear (not the newer versions) - instead of it has massive steel gears and more room/space inside -in comparison to BBSxx. i also ordered mobilgrease 28 from the US (hard to get here in Europe). from my point of view it is a little too "liquid" than expected (NLGI 1 or 1.5 i would say, this might be an advantage for smaller BBSxx with less room/space inside so there is less friction and motor completely filled with mobilgrease has no problems ). i compared the original grease from Bafang with Mobilgrease 28 and Liqui Moly LM47 (might be equal to any black moly grease, to be honest i compared the Bafang grease with even more greases even with some NLGI3 used by BMW). Mobilgrease 28 has a little different consistency and feel. Bafang original grease and Liqui Moli LM47 - i could not distingiush them. i guess, but only guess, Bafang simply uses a kind of black moly grease. but of course i know my "look&feel" comparison was not scientific at all.
after greasing my motor i had to open it again for the shunt mod several weeks later. and i saw what i wanted to see: a solid film of grease at all gears - no damaged gears. but perhaps the same result might have been with mobilgrease 28. apart from obviously absolutely unsuitable greases the most important thing might be: there is enough grease - no matter which grease :D

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Deafcat   100 W

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Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by Deafcat » Aug 13 2019 11:25am

Mobilith SHC 100 is better than Mobil 28 and more readily available (Mobil28 is essentially obsolete).

It works beautifully in the Ultra motor, and will work anywhere you use lithium-synthetic grease for higher speed applications, excellent in the bearings and gears alike... Will not harm nylon or composites, pretty much a perfect all-rounder, a true supreme-performance grease.

Bafangs black moly/lithium grease on the other hand, is bottom shelf trash, often drying up and exhibiting mild corrosion on the ferrous parts... Get that junk out of there ASAP if you want performance and reliability (I spent an hour getting every last trace of it out!)


Note on Ultra motor removal for service: It's quite a bit easier to do it upside down! The wires are easier to handle this way. I still remove the spider etc while right way up, though.

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Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by barbarossa » Aug 13 2019 1:03pm

Deafcat wrote:
Aug 13 2019 11:25am
Mobilith SHC 100 is better than Mobil 28 and more readily available (Mobil28 is essentially obsolete).

It works beautifully in the Ultra motor, and will work anywhere you use lithium-synthetic grease for higher speed applications, excellent in the bearings and gears alike... Will not harm nylon or composites, pretty much a perfect all-rounder, a true supreme-performance grease.

Bafangs black moly/lithium grease on the other hand, is bottom shelf trash, often drying up and exhibiting mild corrosion on the ferrous parts... Get that junk out of there ASAP if you want performance and reliability (I spent an hour getting every last trace of it out!)


Note on Ultra motor removal for service: It's quite a bit easier to do it upside down! The wires are easier to handle this way. I still remove the spider etc while right way up, though.
cool tip… i already read a lot about Mobilith SHC 100. i will order it to complete my grease collection :thumb:

yeah, the motor reassembly. first time it took 3-4 hours. i have the additional problem that i also route rear brake line hose through the motor housing, i have an additional cable for my GPS tracker directly connected to the battery cable and a self made connection from the controller cable (5V+/ground/motor off) to the rear brake pressure sensor and my gearsensor incl. Higo plug. the gps tracker itself is mounted at the inner plastic motor cover. the backup GPS-battery 1000mAh lipo (in case of stolen battery, charged by the main battery) is between plastic cover/gps tracker and motor (but gps tracker and backup battery i can mount after mounting the motor). anyways i would say i have a little more cables than normal :shock: ... a lot of cables. the final trick was to bent all the controller cables and my addtional cables/plug into the space between the last two mounting holes (yellow in the picture) - perhaps the solution was so easy that i did not find it for around 3 hours :lol: . this is the only "large" place/space available even after mounting the motor. with that method it was smooth like butter. last reassembly took 15 minutes, GPS tracker/plastic cover included.
Attachments
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Marmalade   100 mW

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Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by Marmalade » Aug 13 2019 6:35pm

cscscs wrote:
Aug 13 2019 4:08am
No question - the freewheel is the weak link. Freewheel failure has nothing to do with the assist level or the power of the motor, however, as the freewheel is only subjected to the forces applied to the pedals. If anything, higher assist levels might even mitigate the situation by reducing the force (as torque) required to move the works.
My bike has suffered damage to both parts and I would be proud if my legs could take credit for stripping teeth from hardened steel gears :)
hub1 (1).jpg
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bike (2).jpg
bike (2).jpg (63.93 KiB) Viewed 1406 times

cscscs   100 mW

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Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by cscscs » Aug 13 2019 6:45pm

Marmalade wrote:
Aug 13 2019 6:35pm
cscscs wrote:
Aug 13 2019 4:08am
No question - the freewheel is the weak link. Freewheel failure has nothing to do with the assist level or the power of the motor, however, as the freewheel is only subjected to the forces applied to the pedals. If anything, higher assist levels might even mitigate the situation by reducing the force (as torque) required to move the works.
My bike has suffered damage to both parts and I would be proud if my legs could take credit for stripping teeth from hardened steel gears :)

hub1 (1).jpg

bike (2).jpg
The post was specifically referring to the freewheel in the motor, which is definitely only subjected to the forces applied to the pedals. The freewheel in the rear hub as well as the drivetrain (chainring, chain, cassette) are all subjected to the sum of the output of the motor and the pedals; these are two different scenarios. Conversely, what is common to both scenarios is a high concentration of forces at each point of engagement, which is why high POE is particularly desirable for an ebike.

Stanleybb50   100 mW

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Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by Stanleybb50 » Aug 13 2019 7:55pm

Got it assembled and she's beautiful. Gotta adjust things to my positioning/etc. I also like a lever throttle, so I'll be swapping that out. I got the display settings where I like them I believe.

But I have no throttle or pedal assist. Mph shows up and I know things work as the walk assist feature works, but no throttle or pedal assist.

I think I read somewhere in here that I just need to change a setting hooked up to my pc real quick? Or is there another setting I need to change? I kinda at least wanted to feel the stock settings before I go changing things up.

So anyway - I'm not worried or anything, but - what's the deal? 🤷‍♂️😀
Last edited by Stanleybb50 on Aug 13 2019 11:20pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Deafcat   100 W

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Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by Deafcat » Aug 13 2019 11:17pm

There are actually two one-way clutches in the Ultra motor, a three-pawl freewheel for pedal input, and a one-way roller clutch or sprag clutch for the chainring output shaft. I've heard of that output clutch wearing or failing due to too large of a chainring and bad riding (too high of momentary torque loads), failure of the pedal freewheel only possible from too much pedal load as mentioned.

I've yet to damage either of them, though I'd like to replace the pedal freewheel with a sprag roller clutch to get rid of the noise... Onyx hubs on the bike so the only freewheel noise comes from motor. Maybe something I will re-engineer on next disassembly, worth it to have the parts drawn up anyway for community reference.

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Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by mwesleyroper » Aug 14 2019 3:51am

NoFanBoiz wrote:
Jul 11 2019 7:13am
International buyers: have you all purchased via alibaba?

Weird stats trivia -

According to the 'Transactions' tab on the alibaba listings for the AM1000 low end config bike [https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/ ... 53227.html], there have been 3 transactions over the last 11 months,
and 1 transaction for the high end bike [https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/ ... 09431.html].
I purchased the high end about 2 months ago via alibaba

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Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by barbarossa » Aug 14 2019 8:23am

Stanleybb50 wrote:
Aug 13 2019 7:55pm

But I have no throttle or pedal assist. Mph shows up and I know things work as the walk assist feature works, but no throttle or pedal assist.
mmhhh...
perhaps one reason could be that your speed sensor does not work correctly. in that case throttle/pedal assist is (almost) deactivated. is your magnet at the right position ? does your display show up correct speed or any higher speed than "0 Mph" (just pedaling with human power) ?

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Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by Stanleybb50 » Aug 14 2019 8:58am

barbarossa wrote:
Aug 14 2019 8:23am
Stanleybb50 wrote:
Aug 13 2019 7:55pm

But I have no throttle or pedal assist. Mph shows up and I know things work as the walk assist feature works, but no throttle or pedal assist.
mmhhh...
perhaps one reason could be that your speed sensor does not work correctly. in that case throttle/pedal assist is (almost) deactivated. is your magnet at the right position ? does your display show up correct speed or any higher speed than "0 Mph" (just pedaling with human power) ?
Yes - speed sensor is working and mph is being reflected. 🤔

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Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by barbarossa » Aug 14 2019 10:37am

Stanleybb50 wrote:
Aug 14 2019 8:58am
barbarossa wrote:
Aug 14 2019 8:23am
Stanleybb50 wrote:
Aug 13 2019 7:55pm

But I have no throttle or pedal assist. Mph shows up and I know things work as the walk assist feature works, but no throttle or pedal assist.
mmhhh...
perhaps one reason could be that your speed sensor does not work correctly. in that case throttle/pedal assist is (almost) deactivated. is your magnet at the right position ? does your display show up correct speed or any higher speed than "0 Mph" (just pedaling with human power) ?
Yes - speed sensor is working and mph is being reflected. 🤔
Ok next checks:
1) disconnect all motor cutoffs: rear & front brake & gearsensor…
2) are there any error codes ? using the error code page of the display in service menu
Last edited by barbarossa on Aug 14 2019 11:20am, edited 1 time in total.

Hardcore   100 W

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Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by Hardcore » Aug 14 2019 11:19am

might sound stupid, but does it not do anything in higher assist levels as well? If no, then most likely a cut-off feature that stops the motor from engaging.

Stanleybb50   100 mW

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Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by Stanleybb50 » Aug 14 2019 5:55pm

*****USER ERROR. I'M AN IDIOT******

I'm so used to the BBSHD when the bike is on a rack for adjusting that I failed to realize that there was no real pressure on the pedals when I turned them... And the throttle doesn't work like the BBSHD either (won't allow to start from a standstill apparently?)

Anyway - I feel like a moron. It's me and ALLLL me. They had everything hooked up perfect from Frey. Haha - at least I said I wasn't worried - right? Haha

I loaded the Karl's Special Sauce before I gave it a real rest ride... My theory wad that flashing would fix what "wasn't wrong". Haha. So when the Karl's seemingly didn't work either, that's when I decided to test it out outdide. Lol. So now my only experience is Karl's with all his settings from his page with the only change of the 30amp setting. So now I gotta flash back to stock and try that out. Haha.

I'm amazed at the experience and how natural the assist feels! Amazing.

Thanks for the help! I'm an idiot! 😅😂🤣

😥
Last edited by Stanleybb50 on Aug 14 2019 6:04pm, edited 1 time in total.

jeron   100 mW

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Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by jeron » Aug 14 2019 6:03pm

The throttle should work from standstill

Stanleybb50   100 mW

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Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by Stanleybb50 » Aug 14 2019 7:32pm

jeron wrote:
Aug 14 2019 6:03pm
The throttle should work from standstill
I swapped back to stock and back to Karl's (much more natural btw) and still nothing from a standstill. But I really don't care. If I give it even 1/8 of a pedal rotation, then the throttle is available in full.

I mean if you have the solution to it, I'll apply, but I won't lose a wink of sleep over it.

Bike is awesome. No regrets. 👍

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Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by Tjeska » Aug 15 2019 4:29am

Ordered a AM1000 matt black without decals Full spec, would like to do a flashy wrapping job on it.
Spec list:
Gear sensor
Lights
48V 21Ah - rather have more range then the contuous power feel of the 52V 17.5Ah
Some derailleur hangers
Extra charger
Lyric front fork
SRAM EX-1 groupset

Apparently they dont have the Lyric fork & the EX-1 groupset in stock and it can be up to 80 days total befor they can ship.
Start the waiting game...

Ordered the Spider tool to open up the G510 motor, to regrease it from the first day.

Can some of you guys give a update on the wear of the EX-1 groupset?
For the price I couldnt resist buying it.

Hopefully it is worth it over the M8000. :roll:

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Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by Antenor » Aug 15 2019 4:36am

How is the noise of this motor?
In comparison with bbs02?
In comparison with Bosch?

Thank you

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Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by garyal1 » Aug 15 2019 8:26am

jeron wrote:
Aug 14 2019 6:03pm
The throttle should work from standstill
I have recently received 2 AM 1000 and 1 FAT 1000 2.0. All 3 had no throttle UNTIL pedals were turned. No throttle from stop. Frey explained this is the new standard so as to protect the motor / battery and group set.

For the two AM bikes, I left this feature alone as they were going to friends that are new to Ebiking. I figured it WOULD help protect things and since they were newbies they would not miss this lack of throttle from dead stop.

For the FAT 1000 2.0 which was for me, I wanted start from stop feature! Frey sent me a file and I reprogrammed the unit to give me throttle from stop.

Please note for this reprogramming to work you must have the programming cable plugged into your laptop, but do not plug in the green connector to the Ultra until AFTER you have run the software and clicked then upgrade key in the software. ONLY then do you plug in the green connector and the firmware update begins. It fails if you plug it in before you run the update.

Worked perfectly when done as described and gave me back throttle from stop feature.

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Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by garyal1 » Aug 15 2019 8:31am

Tjeska wrote:
Aug 15 2019 4:29am
Ordered a AM1000 matt black without decals Full spec, would like to do a flashy wrapping job on it.
Spec list:
Gear sensor
Lights
48V 21Ah - rather have more range then the contuous power feel of the 52V 17.5Ah
Some derailleur hangers
Extra charger
Lyric front fork
SRAM EX-1 groupset

Apparently they dont have the Lyric fork & the EX-1 groupset in stock and it can be up to 80 days total befor they can ship.
Start the waiting game...

Ordered the Spider tool to open up the G510 motor, to regrease it from the first day.

Can some of you guys give a update on the wear of the EX-1 groupset?
For the price I couldnt resist buying it.

Hopefully it is worth it over the M8000. :roll:
I have an FLX and Frey AM 1000 with the EX1 group set and one HT1000 that I built from a frame I purchased. This one runs at 60 volts and for 4 months while awaiting my Rohloff hub, I put almost 1000 miles on the stock wheels with the Shimano M6000. I was surprised but I had absolutely no issues with the Shimano system. I EXPECTED to have problems! Not one problem and I beat the SH#$ put of it. This week the Rohloff is getting installed....I would save the money and go with the stock Shimano package. then once you receive the bike upgrade it to Rohloff! :mrgreen:

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Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by robwalley1963 » Aug 15 2019 11:39am

jeron wrote:
Aug 14 2019 6:03pm
The throttle should work from standstill
I have a recent Frey HT1000 with the Ultra and my throttle doesn't work unless its moving either (don't have to be pedalling, just registering a speed). Checked all the settings using the config application from the PC against my BBS02 settings (apart from torque page) and seem the same, maybe a restriction because of the power??

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Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by Tjeska » Aug 15 2019 4:10pm

garyal1 wrote:
Aug 15 2019 8:31am
I would save the money and go with the stock Shimano package. then once you receive the bike upgrade it to Rohloff! :mrgreen:
It was a 248 USD option, fairly cheap if you look how much the set costs here.

Isn't the Rohloff crazy expensive compared to that?

jeron   100 mW

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Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by jeron » Aug 15 2019 5:05pm

robwalley1963 wrote:
Aug 15 2019 11:39am
jeron wrote:
Aug 14 2019 6:03pm
The throttle should work from standstill
I have a recent Frey HT1000 with the Ultra and my throttle doesn't work unless its moving either (don't have to be pedalling, just registering a speed). Checked all the settings using the config application from the PC against my BBS02 settings (apart from torque page) and seem the same, maybe a restriction because of the power??
My AM1000 is 1month old and i have full power on the throttle from a standstill.. we can compare settings from the Bafang software?
garyal1 wrote:
Aug 15 2019 8:31am
This week the Rohloff is getting installed....I would save the money and go with the stock Shimano package. then once you receive the bike upgrade it to Rohloff! :mrgreen:
Keep us posted! my next upgrade is also a Rohloff.

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Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by Hardcore » Aug 15 2019 5:54pm

Tjeska wrote:
Aug 15 2019 4:10pm
garyal1 wrote:
Aug 15 2019 8:31am
I would save the money and go with the stock Shimano package. then once you receive the bike upgrade it to Rohloff! :mrgreen:
It was a 248 USD option, fairly cheap if you look how much the set costs here.

Isn't the Rohloff crazy expensive compared to that?
my am has been running the ex1 groupset for over 2000 miles, replaced the smaller 3 cogs with one of those sets for 20 bucks.

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