26" Wheels on High Power Ebike (8,000w-10,000w)?

General Discussion about electric bicycles.
User avatar
DotScott   100 mW

100 mW
Posts: 49
Joined: Feb 06 2016 2:16pm

26" Wheels on High Power Ebike (8,000w-10,000w)?

Post by DotScott » Jul 05 2019 10:58am

Hey everyone,

So I just ordered my QS205 50H V3 but it doesn't come with spokes or a wheel... so I have to build this myself.

I plan on running anywhere from 7,000w up to 10,000w peak (96.6v max charge battery with up to 100 amp peak output).

I've been asking around about which 26" wheel to get but people keep telling me to get a 19" motorcycle or moped wheel "like they have"... But I really don't want that. I know it would give me more torque (and slower speeds) but... I'm more interested in speed than torque. Plus I already have all the other parts for 26" wheels besides the spoke and actual wheel (I have a stock of 26" tubes, multiple types/styles of 26" tires, tire armor, etc).

Can anyone suggest a setup (spoke gauge, wheel brand and wheel model) for a 26" wheel for this thing (no other sizes, just 26")?

I have pretty hefty 26" tubes and tires that I think can handle higher speeds (will test thoroughly before riding though) and I think with something like 12-10 gauge spokes and a strong wheel, it'll do ok.

I already know the spoke sizes, just looking for a good, strong 26" wheel to purchase. Anyone else out there riding with a similar setup?

PS. If this has been discussed before, please point me to the post! I couldn't find one.


Thanks in advance!

User avatar
MadRhino   100 GW

100 GW
Posts: 6568
Joined: Sep 03 2010 5:28pm
Location: Montreal QC Canada

Re: 26" Wheels on High Power Ebike (8,000w-10,000w)?

Post by MadRhino » Jul 05 2019 11:59am

I began running 10+ kw 10 years ago on bicycle wheels, double today and still on bicycle wheels.

Lace your motor single cross in a pro DH rim if you go 26. Older models of racing rims are still available 36h. 14 ga SS spokes, I like DT Swiss, with flange and nipple washers. Long nipples does help maintaining the wheel.

I ride 3 inch tires, Duro wildlife or other big mud tire for dirt, Duro Beach Bum on the street.

The weight of motorcycle wheels is a severe performance penalty. Maybe good for those who are living in a region where they do flats every 2nd day but, that is some 20 lbs extra to your bike, because of rims, tires, and extra cells.
Make it fool-proof, and I will make a better fool.
Current bikes
Street:
Trek Session 10 mod. Variable geometry. 70mph
Dirt:
Santa Cruz V10. 50mph

User avatar
DotScott   100 mW

100 mW
Posts: 49
Joined: Feb 06 2016 2:16pm

Re: 26" Wheels on High Power Ebike (8,000w-10,000w)?

Post by DotScott » Jul 05 2019 12:14pm

MadRhino wrote:
Jul 05 2019 11:59am
I began running 10+ kw 10 years ago on bicycle wheels, double today and still on bicycle wheels.

Lace your motor single cross in a pro DH rim if you go 26. Older models of racing rims are still available 36h. 14 ga SS spokes, I like DT Swiss, with flange and nipple washers. Long nipples does help maintaining the wheel.

I ride 3 inch tires, Duro wildlife or other big mud tire for dirt, Duro Beach Bum on the street.

The weight of motorcycle wheels is a severe performance penalty. Maybe good for those who are living in a region where they do flats every 2nd day but, that is some 20 lbs extra to your bike, because of rims, tires, and extra cells.
This is like... EXACTLY what I was looking for. You're my hero!!! Awesome information, exactly what I was hoping to hear. Will begin my search for the wheel :D THANK YOU!


RunForTheHills   100 W

100 W
Posts: 159
Joined: Feb 19 2019 2:41pm
Location: California

Re: 26" Wheels on High Power Ebike (8,000w-10,000w)?

Post by RunForTheHills » Jul 05 2019 4:49pm

DotScott wrote:
Jul 05 2019 10:58am

I already know the spoke sizes, just looking for a good, strong 26" wheel to purchase. Anyone else out there riding with a similar setup?
Don't buy the spokes until you measure the ERD (effective rim diameter) of the rim you are planning to use. Different 26" rims require different spoke lengths with the same hub. You can use an online spoke length calculator to calculate the spoke sizes.

https://www.ebikes.ca/tools/spoke-calc.html

User avatar
MadRhino   100 GW

100 GW
Posts: 6568
Joined: Sep 03 2010 5:28pm
Location: Montreal QC Canada

Re: 26" Wheels on High Power Ebike (8,000w-10,000w)?

Post by MadRhino » Jul 05 2019 7:52pm

Quick search on ebay, found a MTX39 in 26’’ 36h
Image
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Sun-Ringle-MTX ... SwcoFdGWIq

I ride the Double Track, similar earlier version of pro DH Sun rim
Image

I like this one too. No name, bang for the buck big DH rim.
Image
https://classic-cycle.com/all/1115/alu- ... atte?c=419
Make it fool-proof, and I will make a better fool.
Current bikes
Street:
Trek Session 10 mod. Variable geometry. 70mph
Dirt:
Santa Cruz V10. 50mph

Tommm   10 kW

10 kW
Posts: 872
Joined: Apr 03 2018 2:32am

Re: 26" Wheels on High Power Ebike (8,000w-10,000w)?

Post by Tommm » Jul 06 2019 5:55am

Bigger diameter and lighter wheel is far better for even the simplest offroading. Make sure the inner width of the rim is 30mm+, preferrably 35mm and get a big fat tyre, 2.6-3.0.

User avatar
Overclocker   10 kW

10 kW
Posts: 681
Joined: Mar 17 2014 5:48am
Location: Philippines

Re: 26" Wheels on High Power Ebike (8,000w-10,000w)?

Post by Overclocker » Jul 06 2019 12:06pm

IMG_20190510_100713 (1) (Medium).jpg
moto tires & rims aren't that heavy. my bike here has 26" front and 17" rear. here are the weights:

17" x 1.2" alu rim: 680 grams
17" x 2.5 knobby tire: 1950g
17" tube: 420g

26" rim: 800g (jetset downZ)
26" tire: 1250g (specialized butcher DH 2-ply)
26" tube: 270g (maxxis freeride)

17" TOTAL WEIGHT: 3050g
26" TOTAL WEIGHT: 2320g

just 730g more w/ 17" moto. but massive improvement in durability, puncture protection, tread life

but if you really want 26" check out the rim i'm using jetset downZ 40mm width
Last edited by Overclocker on Jul 06 2019 10:51pm, edited 1 time in total.

exe   10 W

10 W
Posts: 84
Joined: Apr 04 2012 10:19am
Location: Victoria BC Canada

Re: 26" Wheels on High Power Ebike (8,000w-10,000w)?

Post by exe » Jul 06 2019 9:34pm

MadRhino wrote:
Jul 05 2019 7:52pm
Quick search on ebay, found a MTX39 in 26’’ 36h

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Sun-Ringle-MTX ... SwcoFdGWIq

I ride the Double Track, similar earlier version of pro DH Sun rim

I like this one too. No name, bang for the buck big DH rim.
Image
https://classic-cycle.com/all/1115/alu- ... atte?c=419
Is there a reason not to use even wider rims like 67mm?

User avatar
Overclocker   10 kW

10 kW
Posts: 681
Joined: Mar 17 2014 5:48am
Location: Philippines

Re: 26" Wheels on High Power Ebike (8,000w-10,000w)?

Post by Overclocker » Jul 06 2019 10:29pm

exe wrote:
Jul 06 2019 9:34pm


Is there a reason not to use even wider rims like 67mm?

if tire wasn't designed for it you'll expose the thin sidewall since it'll bulge out more w/ a wider rim

User avatar
MadRhino   100 GW

100 GW
Posts: 6568
Joined: Sep 03 2010 5:28pm
Location: Montreal QC Canada

Re: 26" Wheels on High Power Ebike (8,000w-10,000w)?

Post by MadRhino » Jul 07 2019 7:41am

exe wrote:
Jul 06 2019 9:34pm


Is there a reason not to use even wider rims like 67mm?
I ride 68mm rims on my street bike, with street hog slicks. They are giving a large contact surface, ideal on pavement.

In the mountain we need more thread digging than contact surface, with rims no more than half tire width, ideally 1/3.
Make it fool-proof, and I will make a better fool.
Current bikes
Street:
Trek Session 10 mod. Variable geometry. 70mph
Dirt:
Santa Cruz V10. 50mph

User avatar
DotScott   100 mW

100 mW
Posts: 49
Joined: Feb 06 2016 2:16pm

Re: 26" Wheels on High Power Ebike (8,000w-10,000w)?

Post by DotScott » Jul 09 2019 7:34am

MadRhino wrote:
Jul 05 2019 7:52pm
Quick search on ebay, found a MTX39 in 26’’ 36h
Image
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Sun-Ringle-MTX ... SwcoFdGWIq

I ride the Double Track, similar earlier version of pro DH Sun rim
Image

I like this one too. No name, bang for the buck big DH rim.
Image
https://classic-cycle.com/all/1115/alu- ... atte?c=419
Man I love this forum and all of the helpful people in here. I appreciate the help a lot!! Thanks for the info, links etc. everyone! I ended up going with the Sun Ringle MTX39 26" 36h Presta Black rim and 12g spokes. Just waiting for it all to arrive so I can start assembling.

This will be a brand new experience for me (building my own wheel). Luckily I also have a Park Tool Spoke Tension Meter - TM-1 that I got a while back, which I assume will come in very handy for this :) I'm excited to get this thing put together! :D

2old   100 kW

100 kW
Posts: 1231
Joined: Jul 19 2014 3:20pm
Location: Socal

Re: 26" Wheels on High Power Ebike (8,000w-10,000w)?

Post by 2old » Jul 09 2019 8:53am

You should get some interesting values with 12 ga spokes. Never tried mine on anything "bigger" than butted 14/15 and AIR, the numbers were 20 - 30 on whatever scale they use. Just used mine to keep tension even throughout the wheel after I built it, then did final truing.

User avatar
MadRhino   100 GW

100 GW
Posts: 6568
Joined: Sep 03 2010 5:28pm
Location: Montreal QC Canada

Re: 26" Wheels on High Power Ebike (8,000w-10,000w)?

Post by MadRhino » Jul 09 2019 11:17am

I build motor wheel tighter, the reason why I drill the rim to match spoke angles and assemble with washers, rim and flange.
Make it fool-proof, and I will make a better fool.
Current bikes
Street:
Trek Session 10 mod. Variable geometry. 70mph
Dirt:
Santa Cruz V10. 50mph

User avatar
Overclocker   10 kW

10 kW
Posts: 681
Joined: Mar 17 2014 5:48am
Location: Philippines

Re: 26" Wheels on High Power Ebike (8,000w-10,000w)?

Post by Overclocker » Jul 09 2019 11:28am

MadRhino wrote:
Jul 07 2019 7:41am

I ride 68mm rims on my street bike, with street hog slicks. They are giving a large contact surface, ideal on pavement.

In the mountain we need more thread digging than contact surface, with rims no more than half tire width, ideally 1/3.

narrow rims like 1/3 tire width are not great for mountain applications, especially w/ low pressures. poor stability, will literally fold over

User avatar
MadRhino   100 GW

100 GW
Posts: 6568
Joined: Sep 03 2010 5:28pm
Location: Montreal QC Canada

Re: 26" Wheels on High Power Ebike (8,000w-10,000w)?

Post by MadRhino » Jul 09 2019 11:22pm

Overclocker wrote:
Jul 09 2019 11:28am
MadRhino wrote:
Jul 07 2019 7:41am

I ride 68mm rims on my street bike, with street hog slicks. They are giving a large contact surface, ideal on pavement.

In the mountain we need more thread digging than contact surface, with rims no more than half tire width, ideally 1/3.

narrow rims like 1/3 tire width are not great for mountain applications, especially w/ low pressures. poor stability, will literally fold over
I ride tubeless with Cush Core inserts. 25 PSI, 36mm wide rim, 2.8 or 3.0 tire. Just perfect. My 68mm rims with 3 inch tires are very good on the street at 20 PSI, but in the trails I have to slow down to avoid washouts.

I will not argue. Choice of wheels and tires are personnal. If you were a fellow rider I'd say follow the leader. :twisted:
Make it fool-proof, and I will make a better fool.
Current bikes
Street:
Trek Session 10 mod. Variable geometry. 70mph
Dirt:
Santa Cruz V10. 50mph

User avatar
Overclocker   10 kW

10 kW
Posts: 681
Joined: Mar 17 2014 5:48am
Location: Philippines

Re: 26" Wheels on High Power Ebike (8,000w-10,000w)?

Post by Overclocker » Jul 10 2019 12:04am

wide-rim-drawing.jpg
wide-rim-drawing.jpg (50 KiB) Viewed 1164 times
rim width isn't a matter of personal opinion, the picture explains it

a 3" tire with 1" rim is bad advice

larsb   1 MW

1 MW
Posts: 1807
Joined: Dec 10 2014 5:12am
Location: Gothenburg, Sweden

Re: 26" Wheels on High Power Ebike (8,000w-10,000w)?

Post by larsb » Jul 10 2019 3:59am

I've had 26" DH rims and 10kW into a shimano cassette hub for about 10 000 km so far.
No issues. It's unbelievable that the hub has not disintegrated yet. Last crash bent the wheels, maybe moto wheels would've been fine in the same crash.

Durability and life are a lot better with the moto wheels so (to me) the choice is in how much you ride.

i'd say the line is somewhere here:
weekend warrior - fine with bike setup
everyday rider - go with the moto wheels
Ride on!

User avatar
MadRhino   100 GW

100 GW
Posts: 6568
Joined: Sep 03 2010 5:28pm
Location: Montreal QC Canada

Re: 26" Wheels on High Power Ebike (8,000w-10,000w)?

Post by MadRhino » Jul 10 2019 12:17pm

Real life is sometimes far from theory. Trails are very different at different places and different weather. I have a mix of hard pack where my 68mm rims are doing good, muddy with roots where they are absolute shit as compared with my 36mm. Overall, I do my trail faster on 36mm rims than 68mm. Maybe 46 or 50mm would be better but each time I was ready to lace a wheel, they weren’t available 36h. I have been speeding those trails a very long time on 32mm Mavic rims and 2.7 Kenda Nevegals before I started building ebikes, winning most of the time.

When I started using Cush Core inserts and ride tubeless, my average time did improve, mostly because of faster cornering in the root gardens.

This is not opinion, it is fact based on timing. Yet it is in one trail network with its particular surface and configuration. In some other trails, other results could happen. Yet I know no mtb racer riding wider than 50mm, and the new carbon racing rims are all between 36 and 50 mm.

On my old Trial motorcycles, I had 4’’ rr tire on 1.6’’ rims, and 2.75 fr tire. I wouldn’t ride those on ebike because of weight. One need to ride particular adverse conditions, to accept the weight penalty of motorcycle wheels.
Make it fool-proof, and I will make a better fool.
Current bikes
Street:
Trek Session 10 mod. Variable geometry. 70mph
Dirt:
Santa Cruz V10. 50mph

Tony01   10 W

10 W
Posts: 97
Joined: Nov 12 2015 2:24am
Location: San Jose, CA

Re: 26" Wheels on High Power Ebike (8,000w-10,000w)?

Post by Tony01 » Jul 11 2019 12:51am

Do 19 rear and 26 front. Run a small 2.00-2.75 tire on the back. Get all the benefits of motorcycle wheels in almost the same form factor. You’re gonna want it for when you move on up to 15kw in the back
I don't always listen to Pantera.... but when I do, SO DO THE NEIGHBORS :D

John in CR   100 GW

100 GW
Posts: 14358
Joined: May 20 2008 12:58am
Location: Paradise

Re: 26" Wheels on High Power Ebike (8,000w-10,000w)?

Post by John in CR » Jul 11 2019 1:39am

A larger diameter wheel on a high power rig doesn't necessarily get you more speed. The route to higher speed is with a smaller wheel and higher voltage. I run smaller wheels than almost anyone else (between 19" and 20.5"OD depending on my tire selection), but at top speed so far of 182kph (and it had a bit more to give with more road) I ride what is probably the fastest hubmotored 2 wheeler on the planet. All 5 of my current rides have small wheels, and all are fast enough that I don't ride around at full throttle, and they're all likely to be faster than your 26" bike wheel bike ends up. It's electric acceleration that I love, and smaller wheels always give you better acceleration.

The only way I'd build myself another ebike with bicycle wheels is if I ever started doing some offroad riding where the unsprung weight penalty was unacceptable. Of course that would have to be a mid-drive.

I'm not much on maintenance...just charge and ride. Even the much more frequent need to put air in bike tires is an issue to me, and I certainly don't want to go back to fixing flats.

User avatar
MadRhino   100 GW

100 GW
Posts: 6568
Joined: Sep 03 2010 5:28pm
Location: Montreal QC Canada

Re: 26" Wheels on High Power Ebike (8,000w-10,000w)?

Post by MadRhino » Jul 11 2019 6:16am

Yep. Street performance does require downsizing the wheels.

In mountain trails, large wheels are flowing so much better. Power and top speed are useless when the bike can't handle speeding on the rough. It is not that easy to tune a heavy bike to ride good on rough terrain, and wheel size does help a lot. DH racing is now on 29, which I had predicted a decade ago, and I wouldn't be surprised to see them on 30 in another 10 yrs.
Make it fool-proof, and I will make a better fool.
Current bikes
Street:
Trek Session 10 mod. Variable geometry. 70mph
Dirt:
Santa Cruz V10. 50mph

John in CR   100 GW

100 GW
Posts: 14358
Joined: May 20 2008 12:58am
Location: Paradise

Re: 26" Wheels on High Power Ebike (8,000w-10,000w)?

Post by John in CR » Jul 11 2019 7:25pm

I completely understand the need for larger diameter wheels for trail riding (on bad streets too). That's why I'm going with 21's for my offroad build. The combination use tires I got end up with over a 27" OD, but that means mid-drive. I think the reasons MadRhino has so much success offroad with a hubbie are that he's got the knowledge and experience to properly tune the suspension to deal with the unsprung weight, and he must be a light weight guy.

User avatar
E-HP   100 kW

100 kW
Posts: 1229
Joined: Nov 01 2018 9:20pm

Re: 26" Wheels on High Power Ebike (8,000w-10,000w)?

Post by E-HP » Jul 11 2019 7:45pm

John in CR wrote:
Jul 11 2019 7:25pm
I think the reasons MadRhino has so much success offroad with a hubbie are that he's got the knowledge and experience to properly tune the suspension to deal with the unsprung weight, and he must be a light weight guy.
Or it could be something as primal as the girl in his avatar is waiting at the finish line...

John in CR   100 GW

100 GW
Posts: 14358
Joined: May 20 2008 12:58am
Location: Paradise

Re: 26" Wheels on High Power Ebike (8,000w-10,000w)?

Post by John in CR » Jul 11 2019 7:51pm

E-HP wrote:
Jul 11 2019 7:45pm
John in CR wrote:
Jul 11 2019 7:25pm
I think the reasons MadRhino has so much success offroad with a hubbie are that he's got the knowledge and experience to properly tune the suspension to deal with the unsprung weight, and he must be a light weight guy.
Or it could be something as primal as the girl in his avatar is waiting at the finish line...
LOL, but hubbies don't care about girls except that they're lighter on average. Electric motors only care about gearing (wheel diameter in the case of hubmotors) and all up load unless you're talking about flat terrain. It's mountainous here, so I don't have the luxury of flat terrain except down at beach level.

Post Reply