Revolt RV-series motor review and comparisons

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ElectricGod   1 GW

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Re: Revolt RV-series motor review and comparisons

Post by ElectricGod » Mar 08 2019 5:23pm

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larsb   1 MW

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Re: Revolt RV-series motor review and comparisons

Post by larsb » Mar 08 2019 5:27pm

Well, the threads will speak for themselves..

Revolt hall placement:
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 30&t=87305

Idiots guide to rewinding revolt:
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 30&t=85534

Johnnydrives thread:
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 2#p1265709

Karolis unbalanced rotor:
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 8#p1249066

Boisrondevens:
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 5#p1237929

https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 5#p1238201

https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 5#p1240031

Wheazel:
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 5#p1237956

Vasilisk:
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 4#p1177299

Nextev review with excessive noload losses of rv160 motor:
https://youtu.be/6whYU1mLjlU
https://youtu.be/wRI_5cF3nUY
Read the comments on the second video..

This data was already on ES when you started your (quite positive) review. I hope none of the people reading here think that Revolt should be your next motor.. They need both new designs and new management to be a company that deserves business with their history.
Ride on!

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ElectricGod   1 GW

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Re: Revolt RV-series motor review and comparisons

Post by ElectricGod » Mar 08 2019 6:29pm

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larsb   1 MW

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Re: Revolt RV-series motor review and comparisons

Post by larsb » Mar 08 2019 6:45pm

As a dead minimum it is evidence for past quality issues...

...Hopefully feedback like this has gotten back to Revolt and they made improvements.
Boisrondevens spoke to revolt about the soldering and halls.

I tried to get warranty replacement, showed them proof, Johnnydrive also.

Yet the soldering issue for you.. Doesn't it tell you something?

If a company ships a rotor like karolis, they have zero quality control.

Bad halls are fixable but it's not our job.
We pay hundreds of dollars to have a finished product.

The way my motor was it was clear it was never test run. Revolt lied and told me they had noooo idea what the issue could be. Yet they were contacted by several buyers regarding the same issue (halls and heating)

What kind of company are they? A shitty company or a company that just had quality issues waaay back in 2016-2017.. 2-3 years ago that is.

And am i a hater or keyboard warrior.. Or a guy with info that shows my point. 8)
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ElectricGod   1 GW

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Re: Revolt RV-series motor review and comparisons

Post by ElectricGod » Mar 08 2019 7:22pm

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ElectricGod   1 GW

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Revolt RV-120-regular

Post by ElectricGod » Mar 08 2019 7:35pm

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ElectricGod   1 GW

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Revolt RV-120-regular

Post by ElectricGod » Mar 09 2019 2:48am

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larsb   1 MW

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Re: Revolt RV-series motor review and comparisons

Post by larsb » Mar 09 2019 3:04am

the RV-100 series reveals an interesting detail. I just wish the RV-100 regular was also at a similar Kv. Look at the phase resistances. This is exactly what I would expect. The regular (lowest wattage) has the smallest phases and the highest resistance. Followed by the Pro and then the E with the lowest resistance and largest phases.
Reveals..? The phase wires have very little to do with it. Please calculate the resistance difference of 2ft 8awg and 11awg and post it..

The low end RV100 regular has unbelievably high phase resistance for that high kV.. Are you sure kV is correct? It's unlikely..
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madin88   1 GW

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Re: Revolt RV-120-regular

Post by madin88 » Mar 09 2019 8:27am

ElectricGod wrote:
Mar 08 2019 7:35pm
I pulled out my inductor tester and mOhm meter and tested all 3 phases for the below motors.
Great! That brings your review to a new level :D
RV-100-regular: 157kv
.12 - .14mH
53.5 mOhms
Does it really have such high winding resistance?
Because that would be very poor for a motor this size.
AP 12090: (good) 50kv
.06, .08 and 1.28 mH (WTF?!)
10 mOhms on all 3 phases.
Good values. There is nothing wrong if the inductance is not identical as it depends on the actual rotor position. Without the rotor it should be identical, but it will be way higher and so not that meaningful.
I guess the other motors you measured without the bell?
This motor will eat the RV120 regular for breakfast, but i know it has its downsides in terms of pole count which probably leads to higher no-load losses at the higher range of RPMs, and the thing with the shaft as it was designed for spinning a propeller directly from the bell.
I think the RV-100 series reveals an interesting detail. I just wish the RV-100 regular was also at a similar Kv.
Twice the kV usually means the winding resistance will drop to 1/4.
You could extrapolate a motor with a given kV to every kV you like (ebikes.ca motor sim has this built in and also features custom motors).

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Re: Revolt RV-series motor review and comparisons

Post by ElectricGod » Mar 09 2019 7:43pm

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district9prawn   100 W

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Re: Revolt RV-series motor review and comparisons

Post by district9prawn » Mar 09 2019 7:51pm

How can you have 22A phase and 3A battery at full speed no load? How do you measure phase current?

Looks like a good result for the Revolt motor. Doesn't it use 0.5mm laminations?
Neu 8057 6kW left hand drive hardtail with 18 fet Vesc: viewtopic.php?f=6&t=96754

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Re: Revolt RV-series motor review and comparisons

Post by ElectricGod » Mar 09 2019 8:13pm

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district9prawn   100 W

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Re: Revolt RV-series motor review and comparisons

Post by district9prawn » Mar 09 2019 8:49pm

ElectricGod wrote:
Mar 09 2019 8:13pm
Phase amps and battery amps do not necessarily track each other. You can have 6 battery amps and 90 phase amps. On my XB-502 scooter, the battery amps are usually 30-50% what the phases show under load. This is not unusual at all.
I agree that you can have high phase currents at low battery current, but at a low duty cycle.

You have about 200w of input power with your 20s supply. If the rms phase current was really 22a then you would expect the mechanical output to be way over 200w. Something's gotta give.
Neu 8057 6kW left hand drive hardtail with 18 fet Vesc: viewtopic.php?f=6&t=96754

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Re: Revolt RV-series motor review and comparisons

Post by ElectricGod » Mar 09 2019 9:09pm

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ElectricGod   1 GW

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RV-120-regular

Post by ElectricGod » Mar 09 2019 11:12pm

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damirsky   1 W

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Re: Revolt RV-series motor review and comparisons

Post by damirsky » Mar 09 2019 11:50pm

can you please measure the thickness of the phase wire or it is too complicate?
in my rv120pro i have changed delta termination to wye so i found that in my motor (bought several years ago) there are only 5 wires with about 0.75 mm diameter. i am wondering what do you have in your rv120..

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Re: Revolt RV-series motor review and comparisons

Post by ElectricGod » Mar 10 2019 12:37am

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larsb   1 MW

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Re: Revolt RV-series motor review and comparisons

Post by larsb » Mar 10 2019 1:30am

...A few pics of the stator. 45mm tall by 112mm wide. Pretty good copper fill, not 100% full, but still far better than the 12090.

..They are .8mm on my calipers and there are 5 strands.
..With thinner wire like in your pro, they could have easily added another strand
So the fill percent is the same as in my motor. works out to 22% when you calculate it correctly. I got 2.5x more copper in there in my rewind. Your 80% estimation of fill percent and that pizza bet we had? I can send you my adress through PM :D

Noload losses are rpm and frequency related they depend on the rotation speed and pole count. Would be useful to state
motor "x" noload at volt /erpm / RPM: .. This way it can be useful for others later on.
What was that about the Revolt motor being wildly inefficient? Seems like it's the other way around! The phase amps in the 12090 are 5X higher!
The phase current for the AP seems off, could be an effect of low inductance or short time constant (or just measurement error). Anyway the peaks of the phase current is not important, DC current does not show a high number so there's no issue.
the .5mm thick stator lams is spurious and incorrect information.
What?? This is the way incorrect data spreading gets started!
Mr sureofhimself seems very sure of something that is not correct. 5 more people repeat it, BANG! It's the new truth.
You managed to correct it yourself, this time..

Why do i bother: It was already clear on several places here on ES, including my rewinding thread with pictures and statement from revolt what lams they use.

Step it up!
Last edited by larsb on Mar 10 2019 5:43am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Revolt RV-series motor review and comparisons

Post by John in CR » Mar 10 2019 4:08am

All this time wasted on crap motors when you own multiples of one of the best motors ever made that you've yet to ride. Of course you have them on fat pig heavy poor handling scooters, but it beats riding in a cage, and putting something useful together is more rewarding that piddling with motors that will never be capable of much more than pedal assist power.
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ElectricGod   1 GW

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Revolt RV-120-regular

Post by ElectricGod » Mar 10 2019 6:33am

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ElectricGod   1 GW

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Revolt RV-120-regular

Post by ElectricGod » Mar 10 2019 8:24pm

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Punx0r   100 GW

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Re: Revolt RV-series motor review and comparisons

Post by Punx0r » Mar 11 2019 5:00am

ElectricGod wrote:
Mar 09 2019 9:09pm
district9prawn wrote:
Mar 09 2019 8:49pm
ElectricGod wrote:
Mar 09 2019 8:13pm
Phase amps and battery amps do not necessarily track each other. You can have 6 battery amps and 90 phase amps. On my XB-502 scooter, the battery amps are usually 30-50% what the phases show under load. This is not unusual at all.
I agree that you can have high phase currents at low battery current, but at a low duty cycle.

You have about 200w of input power with your 20s supply. If the rms phase current was really 22a then you would expect the mechanical output to be way over 200w. Something's gotta give.
What I can tell you is this:
1. Connect a motor to the controller
2. Zero the meter for DC amps, clamp a battery wire
3. Run the motor at WOT and wait a few seconds until current settles out
4. Read the meter
5. Unclamp the meter, set it for AC, re-zero, clamp a phase wire
6. Run the motor at WOT and wait a few seconds until current settles out
7. Read the meter
8. Repeat steps 1 to 7 for the next motor.

The meter reads what the meter reads...
Phase current can't be higher than battery current at full throttle (100% duty cycle), otherwise by simple V-IR you'd have a lot more power coming out of the controller than going it. The phase current is not sinusoidal so only a "True-RMS" will give an accurate reading, but even with an average responding meter the error shouldn't be as high as you're seeing (~400%) so something weird s going on with the measurements.

district9prawn   100 W

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Re: Revolt RV-series motor review and comparisons

Post by district9prawn » Mar 11 2019 6:39am

It's weird how you get very reasonable current measurements on one motor and completely unreasonable results on another. If you put the clamp around all three phases on your alien motor does your meter read close to zero?
Neu 8057 6kW left hand drive hardtail with 18 fet Vesc: viewtopic.php?f=6&t=96754

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madin88   1 GW

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Re: Revolt RV-series motor review and comparisons

Post by madin88 » Mar 11 2019 5:20pm

district9prawn wrote:
Mar 09 2019 7:51pm
How can you have 22A phase and 3A battery at full speed no load?
When i spin up my 8057 with Nucular controller, the display shows 1,5A battery and 7A phase current at 100% duty cylce.
At no-load and without field weakening.
The fact that it reads higher phase currents could have something todo with ripple current which can be way higher as the average current, but i also don't understand why the clamp meter does measure it so high if it features true RMS.
In theory, even if the ripple current peaks many times higher as the average current, a true RMS meter should be able to read the average correct.

However that be, if the AP motor would have just 1/4 of the inductance, it would at least explain the higher phase current, but it has been measured to be almost identical.

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Re: Revolt RV-series motor review and comparisons

Post by ElectricGod » Mar 11 2019 9:50pm

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