Salvaged EV cells index: Leaf, Volt, Tesla, Zero, etc

Batteries, Chargers, and Battery Management Systems.
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DogDipstick   1 kW

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Re: Salvaged EV cells index: Leaf, Volt, Tesla, Zero, etc

Post by DogDipstick » Jan 26 2019 6:53am

They pull 13Ah to 3.245v... From 4.15V (MAX), the final LG rated cutoff is 2.800v.... on the LGP1 (yes, first gen) 15Ah rated Cell. I dont fully discharge, and I rate the battery I build, ( not the cell) accordingly. For a MAX charge/discharge on a single cell ( from 4.15v to 2.845v) I can pull 14,000-14,500mAh out easily, but I do not need to when I have a bunch of cells to match. If you regularly drain the cells to the min, you have cells get weaker. "13Ah" is a safe place for me to cut off, and still get mega range. Yes the ebike can pull the power out, but it doesnt know if a cell is empty before the others, causing over-discharge damage. So I call my battery a 13 Ah battery, and never run into that problem. I never run them dry. Lg might have made (manufactured) the cells, and rated them, but I built (manufactured) the battery, and rated it. Here is a NASA PDF that included these cells in a testing comparison. The LG P1 cell in on page 9. https://ntrs.nasa.gov/archive/nasa/casi ... 011197.pdf :
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SO FAR IN THIS FORM FACTOR: I have seen :
LGX P1
LGX P1.5
LGX P1.7 X
LGCHEM 2.5X
Last edited by DogDipstick on Apr 11 2019 6:02am, edited 1 time in total.
Allota Watts @ 83.1v of raw QS power takes me everywhere on my Ironhorse DW link XC... :) Powered by Chevy. :D Broke 10 horses the other day. ( BTW; ...don't get hurt... :? )... (Currently building a battery datalogger.). :roll: Playin with (24) IRFB4115s now. :wink:

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Re: Salvaged EV cells index: Leaf, Volt, Tesla, Zero, etc

Post by DogDipstick » Feb 18 2019 10:13pm

I just got a new module. These are testing 14.25Ah-15Ah out. I have been using the batts in the ^^ above pictures for some time now, and no loss od capacity or change inIr in the datalog when I put a charge on them.

Here you can see the battery ( one Volt 2250Wh Chevy Volt Module:), how it is designed, and how the cells are arranged in the OEM production. If you wanted to remove cells in a 3p configuration you would want to cut along the inside of the " U-Shaped" bus bars, opposite the side of the tab welds. Right on either side of the little black molded dots ( no deeper than necessary!), then flip the module on its side and "bend" the module slightly against its back to pull the assembly out 3 at a time ( including heater plates and plastic cell casings). :) I do not need to do this because I do full individual testing of a cell by cell nature.
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As you can see, I do not need to do this, because I am salvaging single cells. I mill the entire U-Shaped bus off until the tab is free.

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Allota Watts @ 83.1v of raw QS power takes me everywhere on my Ironhorse DW link XC... :) Powered by Chevy. :D Broke 10 horses the other day. ( BTW; ...don't get hurt... :? )... (Currently building a battery datalogger.). :roll: Playin with (24) IRFB4115s now. :wink:

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Re: Salvaged EV cells index: Leaf, Volt, Tesla, Zero, etc

Post by 999zip999 » Feb 19 2019 12:30am

This is not a test bench but real life.

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spinningmagnets   100 GW

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Re: Salvaged EV cells index: Leaf, Volt, Tesla, Zero, etc

Post by spinningmagnets » Mar 23 2019 1:41pm

Volkswagen eGolf

https://www.greencarcongress.com/2014/0 ... egolf.html
BatteryVWeGolf2.png
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The e-Golf is powered by a 24.2 kWh, 323V Li-ion battery pack—318 kg (701 lbs), or 21% of the e-Golf’s DIN unladen body weight—with the component 25 Ah cells and modules provided by Panasonic. The pack is located between the front and rear axles. The front end of the battery is equipped with the Battery Management Controller (BMC) which performs safety, diagnostic and monitoring functions and also regulates the battery’s temperature in the Battery Junction Controller (interface to energy supply for the motor).

The modules (in 6- and 12- cell versions) are shipped in from Panasonic, and assembled into the pack at the Braunschweig plant. The pack comprises 264 cells in 27 modules (88s 3p). One of the challenges for the battery team was working through the volumetric geometry of the pack and the orientation of the modules to fit the space available in the e-Golf in adherence with the MQB approach.

The pack has no active cooling system. At the beginning, noted Dr. Manz, Volkswagen thought it might need a thermal management system. However, as the engineers went through testing on the pack with the packaging and the Volkswagen-developed management system, they discovered that they did not need a cooling system.

The e-drive unit consists of a 85 kW (114 hp), 270 N·m (199 lb-ft) synchronous electric motor (EEM 85) and single-speed transmission (EQ 270) with integrated differential and mechanical parking brake. Both motor and gearbox, which form a compact, modular unit, were developed in-house at Volkswagen. The e-drive unit is made at the Volkswagen components plant in Kassel, Germany.

The power electronics module controls the high-voltage energy flow between the e-motor and the lithium-ion battery (between 250 and 430 V depending on the battery voltage). The power electronics converts the direct current (DC) stored in the battery to alternating current (AC). The primary interfaces of the power electronics are its traction network connection to the battery; 3-phase connection to the electric motor; connector from the DC/DC converter to the 12V electrical system; and a connection for the high-voltage power distributor
Its hard to get accurate info, but after some research, the large "cinder blocks" shown in the pics are 4S / 3P and have 12 cells. The 3P provides 72-Ah, so maybe 24-Ah per cell when new. In order to have some sort of "Lego" modules that allow the same blocks to be used in a variety of EVs, they also have 6-cell modules, which I presume would be 2S / 3P, but...who knows?
BatteryVWeGolf3.png
A, this block appears to have 12 cells, and several sources indicate it is 4S / 3P, with nomimal voltage of 3.7V per cell, 14.8V nom per block in the stock configuration
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fechter   100 GW

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Re: Salvaged EV cells index: Leaf, Volt, Tesla, Zero, etc

Post by fechter » Mar 23 2019 9:30pm

What happens when reporters don't really know anything about batteries...
The pack comprises 264 cells in 27 modules (88s 3p)
"One test is worth a thousand opinions"

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Re: Salvaged EV cells index: Leaf, Volt, Tesla, Zero, etc

Post by DogDipstick » Mar 30 2019 8:32am

KIA HYUNDAI "up to '16", quoted from an internet reference. Sonata/ Optima

8s Modules You can see the 8s modules and balance contacts in the disassembly

Here is a link to a Battery Disassembly,you can see the BMS, contacts and hardware>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://isopack.blogspot.com/2017/08/h ... nya1aSZI


compliments of https://greentecauto.com/

Some physical damage to the exterior casing. No cell damage. Aluminum casings holding the cells in pairs against each other. Air cooled 8s modules. Good voltages, testing now. Will upload data.

( To be edited with more information...)

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LG Chem LGXV4-2 Cells. From a Kia ( unknown as of yet). 8 cell modules : 8 cells in series for 28.8v. Nominal / Module,.

4Ah/cell, 16Wh/Cell,

130Wh / 8s Module. approx.

9.5 x 4.75 x .2 inch (10.5 Inch w/ tabs)

233g. Ea

IR ( measured on a Revolectrix powerlab6) 1.5mOh-2mOh stable repeated.

4Ah in on average, 3.95 Ah out on average.

The MAX I have gotten from a 1C discharge is 4.216 Ah @ 4amps. Most cells approached this in testing. I believe 4.25Ah ( prolly originally rated 4Ah) would be available with a .5C discharge. I have done many 2C discharges on a test, and they will report 3.8-3,9Ah out generally with a higher amp draw.

Tab Thickness: .0085 in, or .215 mm.

Tab dimension: ( cut from string) .25 in x 1.775 in. Average.

Of the initial purchase, 7 / 32 were puffed. 25 good ones. No damage and full capacity. The puffed ones also show good capacity ( 3.79, 3.80 Ah) but show some physical puffing around the tabs.
TEST: 1 Cell, 1C, 1 cycle ( from charged to discharged to charged) 4A constant current discharge/charge rate DATALOG. 4 Screens of the cycle.

CAPACITY
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CellV
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IR ( only shown from depleted state for accuracy)
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AMPS(charge/discharge) / TIME
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Last edited by DogDipstick on Apr 18 2019 1:52pm, edited 9 times in total.
Allota Watts @ 83.1v of raw QS power takes me everywhere on my Ironhorse DW link XC... :) Powered by Chevy. :D Broke 10 horses the other day. ( BTW; ...don't get hurt... :? )... (Currently building a battery datalogger.). :roll: Playin with (24) IRFB4115s now. :wink:

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spinningmagnets   100 GW

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Re: Salvaged EV cells index: Leaf, Volt, Tesla, Zero, etc

Post by spinningmagnets » Mar 30 2019 12:24pm

It looks like the pos/neg tabs are on opposite ends of the cells. Could you show a closeup of how the pack framework clamps the tabs together?

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Re: Salvaged EV cells index: Leaf, Volt, Tesla, Zero, etc

Post by DogDipstick » Apr 09 2019 8:26am

spinningmagnets wrote:
Mar 30 2019 12:24pm
It looks like the pos/neg tabs are on opposite ends of the cells. Could you show a closeup of how the pack framework clamps the tabs together?


Sure. The tabs are on opposit ends. The module uses air space for cooling and is layerd with small aluminum enclosures ( like a hard drive stamped enclosure)... holding two cells against each other back to back, the four enclosures making up per module, . You can remove the cells "as is" in a welded 8 cell string, zigzagging down the line end to end, pos to neg. from ground. :)

A module holds the balance connector, and the balance leads exit the bottom of the module. Main discharge is handled by two 8mm bolts nex to each other on the end of the module.

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Allota Watts @ 83.1v of raw QS power takes me everywhere on my Ironhorse DW link XC... :) Powered by Chevy. :D Broke 10 horses the other day. ( BTW; ...don't get hurt... :? )... (Currently building a battery datalogger.). :roll: Playin with (24) IRFB4115s now. :wink:

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Re: Salvaged EV cells index: Leaf, Volt, Tesla, Zero, etc

Post by miro13car » Apr 09 2019 10:00am

Problem with Greentecauto is that they do not provide specs of batt modules
very bad for DIY crowd.
You have to dig yourself on Google to find out specs
Not like HibridAutocentre which provide detailed specs of every module they sell
Eplus, Bionx

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Re: Salvaged EV cells index: Leaf, Volt, Tesla, Zero, etc

Post by DogDipstick » May 26 2019 11:27am

Problem with Greentecauto is that they do not provide specs of batt modules
very bad for DIY crowd.
You have to dig yourself on Google to find out specs
Not like HibridAutocentre which provide detailed specs of every module they sell


I have had a good discussion with GTA... He is nice once he figures you are a real buyer and will cater to you if you are not just phishing for cheap prices: something we all are guilty of one time or another. He is an expert in his field, you know, and that is acquiring batteries. Shipping is legal and not breaking the bank either.

Check out this little ol list I found... Hows this for specs... EV Batt thru 2019. Figures in RED are estimates. You can obviously see the POWER DENSE cellsv vs the not-so powerful. Plus capacity, form factor, and discharge/ charge rates, cooling, ect. Image I Dl'd this a while ago but DID NOT save the credit for the reference. The source is gone now. SO: Whoever compiled this list... THANK YOU.
Allota Watts @ 83.1v of raw QS power takes me everywhere on my Ironhorse DW link XC... :) Powered by Chevy. :D Broke 10 horses the other day. ( BTW; ...don't get hurt... :? )... (Currently building a battery datalogger.). :roll: Playin with (24) IRFB4115s now. :wink:

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spinningmagnets   100 GW

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Re: Salvaged EV cells index: Leaf, Volt, Tesla, Zero, etc

Post by spinningmagnets » Jan 12 2020 9:20pm

Apparently the 2014 Mercedes-Benz B-class uses a pack that is made by Tesla, using their cylindrical cells. Here is a short teardown video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RhtlYDoQM38


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Re: Salvaged EV cells index: Leaf, Volt, Tesla, Zero, etc

Post by jkenny23 » Jan 13 2020 12:29am

DogDipstick wrote:
May 26 2019 11:27am
Problem with Greentecauto is that they do not provide specs of batt modules
very bad for DIY crowd.
You have to dig yourself on Google to find out specs
Not like HibridAutocentre which provide detailed specs of every module they sell


I have had a good discussion with GTA... He is nice once he figures you are a real buyer and will cater to you if you are not just phishing for cheap prices: something we all are guilty of one time or another. He is an expert in his field, you know, and that is acquiring batteries. Shipping is legal and not breaking the bank either.

Check out this little ol list I found... Hows this for specs... EV Batt thru 2019. Figures in RED are estimates. You can obviously see the POWER DENSE cellsv vs the not-so powerful. Plus capacity, form factor, and discharge/ charge rates, cooling, ect. Image I Dl'd this a while ago but DID NOT save the credit for the reference. The source is gone now. SO: Whoever compiled this list... THANK YOU.
Looks like your link is dead now too, but I saved it since it's an excellent reference. Attached to my post here also.
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Re: Salvaged EV cells index: Leaf, Volt, Tesla, Zero, etc

Post by miro13car » Jan 24 2020 12:16pm

what?
Greentecauto wants you to ship old battery?
you cannot just buy like that?
Eplus, Bionx

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Re: Salvaged EV cells index: Leaf, Volt, Tesla, Zero, etc

Post by John in CR » Jan 25 2020 3:51am

Dogdipstick, what's with all the missing images above?

SM, if people have the privilege of sharing pics on the forum, then they should have to be actually shared by uploading. Disappearing images or being forced to join photobucket etc is an irritating disservice to all.

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spinningmagnets   100 GW

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Re: Salvaged EV cells index: Leaf, Volt, Tesla, Zero, etc

Post by spinningmagnets » Jan 25 2020 11:28am

I agree about the pics. On occasion I have linked to a pic to save time, but when a picture is important to the post and the treasure of info here, I save the pic to my laptop and then upload it. I'm afraid I don't have the power to change that here on ES.

So many great pics have been lost in the older posts when Photobucket changed their policies. They waited till billions had uploaded pics to photobucket "for free", and then suddenly put a pay-lock on the door. At the very least, they should have grandfathered-in the pics previous to that, but I believe the things that happened were always the plan from the beginning.

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Re: Salvaged EV cells index: Leaf, Volt, Tesla, Zero, etc

Post by DogDipstick » Jan 25 2020 7:28pm

John in CR wrote:
Jan 25 2020 3:51am
Dogdipstick, what's with all the missing images above?

SM, if people have the privilege of sharing pics on the forum, then they should have to be actually shared by uploading. Disappearing images or being forced to join photobucket etc is an irritating disservice to all.
I am sorry, I will be certain to re-upload them now since I know how to correctly. Expect an update.
Allota Watts @ 83.1v of raw QS power takes me everywhere on my Ironhorse DW link XC... :) Powered by Chevy. :D Broke 10 horses the other day. ( BTW; ...don't get hurt... :? )... (Currently building a battery datalogger.). :roll: Playin with (24) IRFB4115s now. :wink:

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Re: Salvaged EV cells index: Leaf, Volt, Tesla, Zero, etc

Post by DogDipstick » Jan 25 2020 7:30pm

spinningmagnets wrote:
Jan 25 2020 11:28am
I agree about the pics. On occasion I have linked to a pic to save time, but when a picture is important to the post and the treasure of info here, I save the pic to my laptop and then upload it. I'm afraid I don't have the power to change that here on ES.

So many great pics have been lost in the older posts when Photobucket changed their policies. They waited till billions had uploaded pics to photobucket "for free", and then suddenly put a pay-lock on the door. At the very least, they should have grandfathered-in the pics previous to that, but I believe the things that happened were always the plan from the beginning.
Yeah I had to be prompted a few times until I got the enthusiasm to figure out the correct way. Expect update. keep up the good work being a writer and moderator, MrMagnets.
Allota Watts @ 83.1v of raw QS power takes me everywhere on my Ironhorse DW link XC... :) Powered by Chevy. :D Broke 10 horses the other day. ( BTW; ...don't get hurt... :? )... (Currently building a battery datalogger.). :roll: Playin with (24) IRFB4115s now. :wink:

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