New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

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eyebyesickle   10 kW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by eyebyesickle » Apr 19 2018 6:49pm

Lucas Red N Tacky #2 (readily available at a hardware store, cheap)
or
Mobil 28 (harder to find, I'd order from the internet, more expensive, slightly better)

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Marin   1 kW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by Marin » Apr 19 2018 10:50pm

I had this fat bike and a 52v TSDZ2 ( from eyeb) and a battery when member anttipaa had a 100mm converter kit in the for sale section, I picked it up and now have it installed,
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the kit came with the tap required to thread the bb for the adapter
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the bottom bracket is 120mm but with spacers works fine
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Marin ex-rental hybrid with 48v bionx...sold
Specialized hardrock with magic pie 4-5
Lunacycle with l/r mid drive coming soon
Kona Caldera with QS 30H (maybe), and phase runner
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irrelevant   10 µW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by irrelevant » Apr 20 2018 2:02am

qwerkus wrote:
Apr 19 2018 2:12pm
Guys, which grease do you use on the TSDZ2 ?
Here's the expensive stuff from Tongsheng repair manual:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/1KG-MOLYKOTE-E ... Sw5TpaohcW

but I think I'll use something cheaper :lol:

aja   10 W

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by aja » Apr 20 2018 5:20am

eyebyesickle wrote:
Apr 19 2018 6:49pm
Lucas Red N Tacky #2 (readily available at a hardware store, cheap)
or
Mobil 28 (harder to find, I'd order from the internet, more expensive, slightly better)
Hmm, perhaps if I need to do it again with the newer motors I should order one of those...

Bigwheel   100 W

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by Bigwheel » Apr 20 2018 11:49am

irrelevant wrote:
Apr 20 2018 2:02am
qwerkus wrote:
Apr 19 2018 2:12pm
Guys, which grease do you use on the TSDZ2 ?
Here's the expensive stuff from Tongsheng repair manual:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/1KG-MOLYKOTE-E ... Sw5TpaohcW

but I think I'll use something cheaper :lol:
No wonder they are so stingy with it at the factory level. Specifically for nylon gears, luckily I have the bronze and the Lucas works for cheap.

qwerkus   1 kW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by qwerkus » Apr 20 2018 12:10pm

Marin wrote:
Apr 19 2018 10:50pm
I had this fat bike and a 52v TSDZ2 ( from eyeb) and a battery when member anttipaa had a 100mm converter kit in the for sale section, I picked it up and now have it installed,
You sure about hitting this tiny motor with 750W ? My overall impression is that it's fine till 500W, but than it's underbuilt.

casainho   10 GW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by casainho » Apr 20 2018 12:55pm

I think this sensor that is screwed on the motor controller but is in visual line with the crank, is a PAS sensor. I verified it has signal 2 wires output (digital signal) that reacts when I pass a magnet in front of them and seems is a kind of quadrature signal and this way should be possible to detect if pedals are rotating forwards or backwards.

Question: I didn't saw any magnets on my crank, can you guys say if the crank has magnets??

Image

Image
- TSDZ2 FAQ: issues and repairs, etc
- TSDZ2 OpenSource firmware

Developer of OpenSource knowledge and technology for ebikes: Wireless Ebike boar ANT+ and Bluetooth, Flexible OpenSource firmware for EBikes: TSDZ2 mid drive motor, KT motor controllers and displays: Bafang 850C color, SW102 Bluetooth and KT-LCD3.

If you like my work, please consider making a donation to help my developments: paypal.me/jorgecasa

hobbyvac   100 mW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by hobbyvac » Apr 20 2018 1:42pm

" I didn't see any magnets on my crank, can you guys say if the crank has magnets........ "



No magnets on my crank and I am using different cranks from the Bafung.

I was also surprised that it doesn't seem to need the magnetic speed sensor on the rear wheel. I removed mine with no ill effects other than the speedometer not working. Yet somehow it knows not to ramp up power until after a half pedal revolution so it somehow knows when the cranks are turning. It may be just working based on time after it senses torque on the pedals and the same with stopping the power

I wish I could shorten up the period of over run after you stop pedaling. Im expecting propulsion to stop when I do and it carries power too long into corners while trail riding.

Farther   1 mW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by Farther » Apr 20 2018 1:51pm

irrelevant wrote:
Apr 20 2018 2:02am
qwerkus wrote:
Apr 19 2018 2:12pm
Guys, which grease do you use on the TSDZ2 ?
Here's the expensive stuff from Tongsheng repair manual:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/1KG-MOLYKOTE-E ... Sw5TpaohcW

but I think I'll use something cheaper :lol:
For that price it better be a 5 gallon pail!

Triketech   1 kW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by Triketech » Apr 20 2018 2:10pm

Look for engine build moly grease at an auto parts store it's basically the same thing.

Lithium grease with moly.

casainho   10 GW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by casainho » Apr 20 2018 5:36pm

Guys, this is how the torque sensor of your motor works and you can see how fast it reacts:



NOTE: This video is dedicated to stancecoke/hochsitzcola for his hard work on documenting the ebike torque sensors and helping on our OpenSource firmware for Ebike motor controllers.
---

On this video, our firmware running on TSDZ2 motor controller, reads the torque sensor ADC value and send by UART to the PC and were it is shown in the graph.

This was the very first time I was able to understand how the original firmware controls the hardware to read the torque sensor.
- TSDZ2 FAQ: issues and repairs, etc
- TSDZ2 OpenSource firmware

Developer of OpenSource knowledge and technology for ebikes: Wireless Ebike boar ANT+ and Bluetooth, Flexible OpenSource firmware for EBikes: TSDZ2 mid drive motor, KT motor controllers and displays: Bafang 850C color, SW102 Bluetooth and KT-LCD3.

If you like my work, please consider making a donation to help my developments: paypal.me/jorgecasa

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Marin   1 kW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by Marin » Apr 20 2018 6:27pm

qwerkus wrote:
Apr 20 2018 12:10pm
Marin wrote:
Apr 19 2018 10:50pm
I had this fat bike and a 52v TSDZ2 ( from eyeb) and a battery when member anttipaa had a 100mm converter kit in the for sale section, I picked it up and now have it installed,
You sure about hitting this tiny motor with 750W ? My overall impression is that it's fine till 500W, but than it's underbuilt.
So far its fine and I’m not too hard on stuff, remember this motor is for pedaling with not like a hub motor or bafang mid drive.
Marin ex-rental hybrid with 48v bionx...sold
Specialized hardrock with magic pie 4-5
Lunacycle with l/r mid drive coming soon
Kona Caldera with QS 30H (maybe), and phase runner
Giant Yukon bbs02
Kona Abra Cadabra bbshd
Wildfire fat bike bbshd

m3lonbr3ad   10 mW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by m3lonbr3ad » Apr 21 2018 7:12pm

I am nearly finished with my first build using this motor. Just waiting for some connectors to be delivered.

I have a question:
Can someone please help me find a decent set of crank arms that mostly corrects the q factor for installation in a 68mm bottom bracket? If I need to provide more information, please let me know. From some quick measurements the right side is about 25mm further from center than left left side. Ideally I should bring the right side in a large amount and the left side in a smaller amount while evening things out.

Bigwheel   100 W

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by Bigwheel » Apr 21 2018 11:46pm

I used a set of Bafang cranks that were in hand as they were straight as compared to the stock cranks. The non drive was a little too close to the cs so I had to grind it a bit. Still not perfect but close enough. That and fitting Bafang accessory 42t chain ring to improve the low gear chainline also.

The drive side crank could come in more if the crank spindle sq. taper was inboard some more. I have been thinking of taking it off and getting it machined.

jeanl   10 mW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by jeanl » Apr 22 2018 5:41pm

casainho wrote:
Apr 20 2018 5:36pm
Guys, this is how the torque sensor of your motor works and you can see how fast it reacts:



NOTE: This video is dedicated to stancecoke/hochsitzcola for his hard work on documenting the ebike torque sensors and helping on our OpenSource firmware for Ebike motor controllers.
---

On this video, our firmware running on TSDZ2 motor controller, reads the torque sensor ADC value and send by UART to the PC and were it is shown in the graph.

This was the very first time I was able to understand how the original firmware controls the hardware to read the torque sensor.
Dude, that's truly awesome!!!

hobbyvac   100 mW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by hobbyvac » Apr 22 2018 7:48pm

I also run a Bafang crank arm on the right side to help balance the offsets. It looks slightly different but not noticable. They are almost completely straight with no offset. Anything less offset and your heel would hit the crank arm.

m3lonbr3ad   10 mW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by m3lonbr3ad » Apr 22 2018 9:04pm

hobbyvac wrote:
Apr 22 2018 7:48pm
I also run a Bafang crank arm on the right side to help balance the offsets. It looks slightly different but not noticable. They are almost completely straight with no offset. Anything less offset and your heel would hit the crank arm.
What about the Shimano step e6000 cranks? Are they staggered offsets?

It seems the lekkie buzz bars are staggered offsets, but cost a lot.

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by Speady » Apr 23 2018 5:28am

m3lonbr3ad wrote:
Apr 22 2018 9:04pm
What about the Shimano step e6000 cranks? Are they staggered offsets?
Image
I tried the Steps cranks once as they came in 175mm, they are curved a bit less than the Tongsheng (-8mm), the Bafang is -16mm.
I prefer TS crank left side and Bafang crank on the right, so the crankarms are evenly centered, as the drive unit itself has some offset to the right.
A single Bafang right crank is only ~$12 from china seller.

casainho   10 GW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by casainho » Apr 23 2018 7:36am

Guys, this is your motor running with our OpenSource firmware (at max of 3866 RPM with the 36V from lab power supply)! I was using a throttle on that test.
So, since the other last video, seems that what is missing right now is "connecting" the torque sensor signal to the motor "throttle" signal, right?? Not yet, first I need to be able to read motor current and limit it to the max recommended value to this controller or the mosfets will burn :-)

What I did learn that may be important for you:
- the controller can run with a battery pack from 7S (24V) up to 14S (52V)
- seems that all controller versions have the same hardware but for instance, brakes and throttle wires are missing. Don't know about the original firmware but our firmware should support all options (so, every controller version will work with or without brakes and throttle)

- TSDZ2 FAQ: issues and repairs, etc
- TSDZ2 OpenSource firmware

Developer of OpenSource knowledge and technology for ebikes: Wireless Ebike boar ANT+ and Bluetooth, Flexible OpenSource firmware for EBikes: TSDZ2 mid drive motor, KT motor controllers and displays: Bafang 850C color, SW102 Bluetooth and KT-LCD3.

If you like my work, please consider making a donation to help my developments: paypal.me/jorgecasa

fixvid   1 W

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by fixvid » Apr 23 2018 7:55am

Very good job Casainho.

Just a question, the firmware is uploaded on the tsdz2 controller right ? It seemed to be a different controller on the bench

casainho   10 GW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by casainho » Apr 23 2018 8:12am

fixvid wrote:
Apr 23 2018 7:55am
Very good job Casainho.

Just a question, the firmware is uploaded on the tsdz2 controller right ? It seemed to be a different controller on the bench
Thanks.

It is the same controller, you can even see the metal part attached (the controller is not only an electronic board).
- TSDZ2 FAQ: issues and repairs, etc
- TSDZ2 OpenSource firmware

Developer of OpenSource knowledge and technology for ebikes: Wireless Ebike boar ANT+ and Bluetooth, Flexible OpenSource firmware for EBikes: TSDZ2 mid drive motor, KT motor controllers and displays: Bafang 850C color, SW102 Bluetooth and KT-LCD3.

If you like my work, please consider making a donation to help my developments: paypal.me/jorgecasa

casainho   10 GW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by casainho » Apr 23 2018 8:45am

I found the limitation of measured current on this controller: 18 amps.
STM8 pin PB5/AIN5 measures the analog signal for the battery current and for each 1 amp, the signal increases 0.275 volts. The max current measured is: 5V / 0.275V = 18.18 amps. Assuming the signal can be linear and I did my measurements correct, maybe the measured current can't be more than 18 amps.

And yes, modding the shunt should change the relation 1A/0.275...

Anyway, this measured battery current on the shunt will let the firmware protect the controller as also control the motor torque, so we can play on the firmware like implementing a torque linear ramp to always control increasing rate of torque.
- TSDZ2 FAQ: issues and repairs, etc
- TSDZ2 OpenSource firmware

Developer of OpenSource knowledge and technology for ebikes: Wireless Ebike boar ANT+ and Bluetooth, Flexible OpenSource firmware for EBikes: TSDZ2 mid drive motor, KT motor controllers and displays: Bafang 850C color, SW102 Bluetooth and KT-LCD3.

If you like my work, please consider making a donation to help my developments: paypal.me/jorgecasa

m3lonbr3ad   10 mW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by m3lonbr3ad » Apr 23 2018 9:26am

Speady wrote:
Apr 23 2018 5:28am
m3lonbr3ad wrote:
Apr 22 2018 9:04pm
What about the Shimano step e6000 cranks? Are they staggered offsets?
Image
I tried the Steps cranks once as they came in 175mm, they are curved a bit less than the Tongsheng (-8mm), the Bafang is -16mm.
I prefer TS crank left side and Bafang crank on the right, so the crankarms are evenly centered, as the drive unit itself has some offset to the right.
A single Bafang right crank is only ~$12 from china seller.
Very helpful, thank you. I might also look into those Lekkie buzz bars if I can find a good good deal.

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eyebyesickle   10 kW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by eyebyesickle » Apr 23 2018 4:51pm

Nice,
Now I have to go check my BBS cranks against my TS, and see how it looks... Wouldn't it be nice for the TS to come with better arms... ugh

hobbyvac   100 mW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by hobbyvac » Apr 23 2018 7:12pm

m3lonbr3ad wrote:
Apr 22 2018 9:04pm
hobbyvac wrote:
Apr 22 2018 7:48pm
I also run a Bafang crank arm on the right side to help balance the offsets. It looks slightly different but not noticable. They are almost completely straight with no offset. Anything less offset and your heel would hit the crank arm.
What about the Shimano step e6000 cranks? Are they staggered offsets?

It seems the lekkie buzz bars are staggered offsets, but cost a lot.
As you can see, the zero offset Bafang arm is as far as you can go. Any negative offset means you will hit your ankle on the spindle area. There is however a lot of room for improvement in quality and weight. On my installation the whole motor is offset so it needs different arms on each side to even get close to symmetrical.

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