MXUS 3000 Hub Motor - V1 V2 V3

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GreenRoad   100 W

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Re: MXUS 3000 Hub Motor

Post by GreenRoad » Jun 14 2015 6:40am

icecube57 wrote:Lets face it PTFE and Silicone wire can carry way more current than the PVC wires. It can carry way more current cause the jacket of the wire can tolerate the temp. PVC jacketed wire startes to melt around 80C and gets soft and tacky well before this temp. The phase wires have a PTFE coating. It begins to deteriorate after the temperature reaches about 260 °C (500 °F), and decomposes above 350 °C (662 °F) So if you are getting the phase wires anywhere near these temps you are doing it wrong. They should see no more than maybe 120 140C near the windings and much less near the axle. So at this point the jacket of the wire is fine but its not really abrasion resistant.All I do is apply a thin layer of heat shrink so that it can take the few minor scuffs related to reinserting it into the axle and it should be golden. Keeping the wire length short is the key. Short pieces of wire even though its a smaller gauge can carry more current than a long piece wire of the same gauge. So as long as you terminate the phase wires outside the axle you are fine. Upgrade the phase wires from 6 inches outside the axle to the controller.
yes sure - the factory wireing is not bad.
PTFE is much better than silicone - the silicone could get easiely damaged - thats an disadvantage.

Its okay that the PTFE could handle much heat - but this is not realy good.
At my problem i think i found the reason for the damage:
One of the inside factory Hallsensor was not realy good mounted. after some time the magnetic damaged the halsensor.
i replaced them about 3times and found at first step no realy reason for it.
Thant i take a look to the sensor and i could see that it geting damaged over mechanical.
I reworked the place on the stator where the Hallsensor are placed - and now no problem.

But - with my 6mm² wires - i could use the adaptto mini - with about 60A at 14S Limn - for the hole time.
The motor is getting not warmer than 80°C - and thats a good setup - for a safe ride.
With a 24" rim i could drive about 65km/h at street - with 3 - 3,5KW - and thats perfect for an street bike.
Uphill also no prob.

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teslanv   100 MW

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Re: MXUS 3000 Hub Motor

Post by teslanv » Jun 14 2015 9:17am

wesnewell wrote:Don't recall the KV for the other ones, but they're post here somewhere.
Posted this in another Thread a while back ...
teslanv wrote:I have confirmed via inspection and testing on the MXUS 3000W Motors as follows:

21X3T Winding:
12.02 Kv
0.796 Kt (Nm/A)
0.072 Ohms resistance (Measured from end of base phase wire, (~1 meter Lead to Motor axle)
Weight (Bare Hub Motor): 9.0 Kg
Km (per Miles' Database Formula): 2.965

16X4T Winding:
8.9 Kv
1.073 Kt (Nm/A)
0.112 Ohms resistance (Measured from end of base phase wire, (~1 meter Lead to Motor axle)
No-Load Current at 50.2V: 0.6A, 447 RPM
Weight (Bare Hub Motor): 9.0 Kg
Km (per Miles' Database Formula): 3.206

12X5T Winding:
7.2 Kv
1.335 Kt (Nm/A)
0.170 Ohms resistance (Measured from end of base phase wire, (~1 meter Lead to Motor axle)
Weight (Bare Hub Motor): 9.0 Kg
Km (per Miles' Database Formula): 3.239

On the 3T Winding which I upgraded the Phase Wires, I have the following:

21X3T Winding:
12.02 Kv
0.796 Kt (Nm/A)
0.060 Ohms resistance (Measured from end of base phase wire, (~0.5 meter Lead to Motor axle)
Weight (Bare Hub Motor): 9.0 Kg
Km (per Miles' Database Formula): 3.248
And here is the excel spreadsheet I developed so you can calculate and compare unloaded speed and torque, given Motor winding, volts, Phase current and tire size.
MXUS 3000W Calculator.xls
(35.5 KiB) Downloaded 127 times
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Re: MXUS 3000 Hub Motor

Post by litespeed » Jun 14 2015 10:51am

I have a 6T on 17" I'm running on 24s15p through a Lyen 18 FET at 75 amps battery and 130 phase and it runs warmer than I would have hoped. Tops out at 36 mph and has wheelie power up to 15 mph. For that I wish I had gone to a lower turn motor.

Anyway on the chart you posted shows 60 amp phase on the 6T? Not sure if I saw that before.

Would that be a peak or long term, highest effeciency or what?

Tom
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Re: MXUS 3000 Hub Motor

Post by markz » Jun 14 2015 3:33pm

Thanks etrike I am always fooling around with the sim.


Litespeed - I got the same 18fet as you I think, I bought the 18 FET Low RDS MOSFET Overclocker Ready LYEN Controller $199.
The specs say
18 x genuine IRFB 4110 MOSFET N-CH 100V (tested up to 110V before damage) for more information about the FET, click the link below:
http://search.digikey.com/scripts/DkSea ... 4110PBF-ND)
72V battery optimized (for higher or lower voltage & current such as 36V-100V, you may need to change the resistor network to avoid damage to the voltage regulator)
65A is the current rate (for higher current, you may need to beef up the trace, shunt, and reprogram it via the software)
Low voltage cut-off: 62.6v
So that was one of the reasons I downgraded from 20S 84Vhoc to 16S. I have yet to search and find information on how and what to change in my controller, so whatever Lyen ships these out with, is what I got.
litespeed wrote:I have a 6T on 17" I'm running on 24s15p through a Lyen 18 FET at 75 amps battery and 130 phase and it runs warmer than I would have hoped. Tops out at 36 mph and has wheelie power up to 15 mph. For that I wish I had gone to a lower turn motor.

Anyway on the chart you posted shows 60 amp phase on the 6T? Not sure if I saw that before.

Would that be a peak or long term, highest effeciency or what?

Tom

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Re: MXUS 3000 Hub Motor

Post by Allex » Jun 14 2015 5:11pm

Tesla I will put your XLS in the first post.

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Re: MXUS 3000 Hub Motor

Post by litespeed » Jun 14 2015 10:49pm

markz wrote:Thanks etrike I am always fooling around with the sim.


Litespeed - I got the same 18fet as you I think, I bought the 18 FET Low RDS MOSFET Overclocker Ready LYEN Controller $199.
The specs say
18 x genuine IRFB 4110 MOSFET N-CH 100V (tested up to 110V before damage) for more information about the FET, click the link below:
http://search.digikey.com/scripts/DkSea ... 4110PBF-ND)
72V battery optimized (for higher or lower voltage & current such as 36V-100V, you may need to change the resistor network to avoid damage to the voltage regulator)
65A is the current rate (for higher current, you may need to beef up the trace, shunt, and reprogram it via the software)
Low voltage cut-off: 62.6v
So that was one of the reasons I downgraded from 20S 84Vhoc to 16S. I have yet to search and find information on how and what to change in my controller, so whatever Lyen ships these out with, is what I got.
litespeed wrote:I have a 6T on 17" I'm running on 24s15p through a Lyen 18 FET at 75 amps battery and 130 phase and it runs warmer than I would have hoped. Tops out at 36 mph and has wheelie power up to 15 mph. For that I wish I had gone to a lower turn motor.

Anyway on the chart you posted shows 60 amp phase on the 6T? Not sure if I saw that before.

Would that be a peak or long term, highest effeciency or what?

Tom
I had Lyen beef up my traces for me. We just need to exchange motors so we both get what we want. :lol:

Tom
I'm married so you know I'm no stranger to pain!

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Re: MXUS 3000 Hub Motor

Post by markz » Jun 15 2015 12:26am

Good, thats what I thought.

Here is a little something I catched in my brain and it stayed.
Back at page 29....
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... US#p978959

Now I am def! doing 17"(21.5") or 19"(24") MMP moto rim, with 1.6" wide and 6mm nip's. Just got to figure out crank arms "hittage".

The one pavement bike path hill I tried today, with a bit of a run and some help, Im impressed! I touched the motor, luke warm, controller a touch warmer. Thats right after doing a test hill. Shoulda went mmp's when I was thinking about it, instead of wasting $100 on 26" bicycle rim/spokes.

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Re: MXUS 3000 Hub Motor

Post by Rix » Jun 15 2015 10:58am

markz wrote:Good, thats what I thought.

Here is a little something I catched in my brain and it stayed.
Back at page 29....
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... US#p978959

Now I am def! doing 17"(21.5") or 19"(24") MMP moto rim, with 1.6" wide and 6mm nip's. Just got to figure out crank arms "hittage".

The one pavement bike path hill I tried today, with a bit of a run and some help, Im impressed! I touched the motor, luke warm, controller a touch warmer. Thats right after doing a test hill. Shoulda went mmp's when I was thinking about it, instead of wasting $100 on 26" bicycle rim/spokes.




Mark, a lot of us had made that mistake. I bet I have 3K is various rims I have laced to hubmotors, and I have tried so many tires out now, I got a corner of the shop just stacked with them. I gave my dad 9 tires, four berm master 24x3 and five 2.75-19 SR241, I gave my uncle five 24x2.6 Duro Razorbacks as that tire is too small for my taste and works excellent on his home build, and I still have tires coming out my ears. Not bragging about how much tires I have, I bring this up to say this, if you go the MC route on your tire, here the tires you should used and why. For 17x1.6 mc rim, go with the 3.00-17 SR241, its the best tire out there in the size period. If you don't have frame clearance for the 3.00-17 SR241, go with the IRC 2.75-17, its almost as good as the SR241, a pound lighter, and 2/3 inch(15mfm) narrower. I would recommend the 2.75-17 SR 241, but its only 5mm narrower than the 3.00-17 and almost the same diameter when mounted and inflated on a 17x1.4 rim. If you go with the 19x1.6 rim, go with the 2.75-19 SR241, this tire is the best tire for this size rim. On again, if clearance is an issue, I would suggest the Vee Rubber VRM021 2.75-19 tire. Its only 2.6 inches wide and also about a pound lighter than the 241. This tire works pretty good everywhere, but the SR241 works great everywhere, the one very distinct advantage the VRM021 has over the SR241 is it has noticeably less rolling resistance. Anyway, unless you want something specifically for road riding only, these are currently the best options out there, and you won't spend a ton of money like I did to find out. For the record, I am currently running an 18x1.4 run and an running the VRM021 3.00-18 tire. Its big at 24.7 inches inflated and is almost as good as the 2.75-18 SR241 I previously ran on my Fighter. Even though its rated as a 3.00-18, its taller than the 2.75-18 sr241, but 4mm narrower than the 2.75-18 tire, and rolls easier. My only complaint about this tire is it is a 6ply tire and comes in at 7 pounds.
Last edited by Rix on Jun 20 2015 10:10am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: MXUS 3000 Hub Motor

Post by teslanv » Jun 20 2015 9:13am

I've been running a variety of simulations on the ebikes simulator.

According to Justin's data, I get the following phase current limits on the various windings:

MXUS XF40-45H "3000W" Direct Drive Hub Motor Series:

3T:
Max. Continuous Phase Current: 55A
Overheat in 10 Minutes: 85A
Overheat in 60 seconds: 242A

4T:
Max. Continuous Phase Current: 42.6A
Overheat in 10 minutes: 66A
Overheat in 60 seconds: 186A

5T:
Max. Continuous Phase Current: 34.9A
Overheat in 10 minutes: 51.6A
Overheat in 60 seconds: 150A

6T:
Max. Continuous Phase Current: 30.3A
Overheat in 10 minutes: 47A
Overheat in 60 seconds: 132A

Generic Winding Phase Current Limits per strand:
Max. Continuous Phase Current: 2.84A per strand
Overheat in 10 minutes: 4.4A per strand
Overheat in 60 seconds: 12.4A per strand

*All data assumes a non-vented hub motor. Venting or other methods of cooling should increase these values.

If these values seem low, just remember that when accelerating from a stop, you might start out at very high phase current, but then in theory phase current would drop as you reach your cruising speed. - As long as your cruising (continuous) phase current is not higher than listed above, you would theoretically never overheat the motor.
Last edited by teslanv on Aug 24 2015 4:01pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: MXUS 3000 Hub Motor

Post by Rix » Jun 20 2015 11:32am

Those numbers makes sense Telsanv, running the respective amps through those motors with a constant load and no decrease in current demand would be just that. We could burst 100v and 120 DC amps through the 5404 all day long and not hurt it, but if ran 2kw through that motor while stalled long enough, it would over heat and eventually smoke the stator. The inductance load demands have a big affect on what and how much motors can handle over a given time frame.

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Re: MXUS 3000 Hub Motor

Post by markz » Jun 20 2015 2:49pm

Wow look at those #'s, now I am glad I bought the 4T winding. More amps!!!!
Yeah I am sold on the idea of a moto rim, smaller diameter, more torque, slower speed. I can see the rim being a cool $100, if not $150 to $200.
I find myself to easily tempted to twist the throttle and fly by people. Im easily doing well over 50km/h, more like 55-60km/h at wot.
I think too that eats up my battery juice too.
If I had my CA working properly I surely could regulate that, but its still wonky. I've tried fooling around with the throttle inputs/outputs, I will email them soon about it.
I did change my throttle, I was too lazy to swap them out. I didnt have my first throttle connected to handle bar, it was hanging freely. Major hand cramps. So I just cut the wire and connected up the one thats on the Strong bicycle. Its very touchy, seems to be a sweet spot, I am sure someones got a fix for that. Thats on the list too.

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Re: MXUS 3000 Hub Motor

Post by Rix » Jun 20 2015 4:27pm

eTrike wrote:I just picked up the Holmes MMP rim I ordered on the 12th. It arrived a couple days ago but I was out of town. I got the Red option rim to save $$ and I had assumed from the post he gave about them that they were new rims, but he wanted to get rid of them as red "got a lot of votes but not a lot of buys" or something similar.

My "new" rim apparently is used.
It has a small dent in one side which didn't seem to happen during shipping as the box was intact and the inside of the rim has baked-in debris that looks like rubber/dirt as if it had been mounted and used for some time.

I'm thankful for the price of the rim anyhow, but wanted to share my experience.
There were some "blemish" sales, sounds like that also may have been the reason for the discount.

My next build will be with this motor and controller. Allex is the man.
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Re: MXUS 3000 Hub Motor

Post by moonshine » Jun 20 2015 6:08pm

Rix,

I'm pumped to see your new build! Let me know what settings you end up with for the Max-E
Current Build: Vector, MXUS 4T in 19" moto, Max-E, 20s8p Samsung 25R http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... =6&t=67752

Torque Raptor, Cromo V3 in 19" prowheel, Kelly KBL96251, 24s4p (SOLD) http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... =9&t=56342
Giant DH Comp, X5404/Cromo V2 in 26" rim, Kelly KBL96251/Lyen 18fet, 24s4p (SOLD) http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... =6&t=40031

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Re: MXUS 3000 Hub Motor

Post by litespeed » Jun 20 2015 7:14pm

I'd say that chart looks pretty close for my 6T with 17" rim. I got to say my EVelbike is a blast to ride around but wish it was just a bit faster. I can hit 36 mph all the time and 38 in a tuck. Climbs everything and pulls wheelies too. It still runs hotter than I thought it would though. I think I'm going to pull the regen and see what that does since I really don't like it on the throttle. Slows down way to hard and sometimes I just want to let go of the throttle. Seems to be pretty efficient. On my 22.5 amp 24s pack Makita Koinin pack I got 24 miles and used 10 amps. Averaged 21 mph and topped out at 38.9 mph. This was Missouri hills, flats and hills. Steepest hill I have is about 1/2 mile long and 7 to 8% grade and can fly up at 28 to 30 mph. I suppose I need to either go to a CA V3 with either the Lyen 18 FET I'm using, Sabvoton 72150 or MaxE

Couple questions if someone thinks they know,

How much speed could I add with a MaxE at 22s compared to my Lyen 18 FET at 24s?

What about a Sabvoton 72150?

Would the MaxE or Sabvoton actually make the motor run cooler or am I looking at basically the same thing?

Or do I just go for a 205 4T motor and add 10 lbs of mass?

Tom
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Re: MXUS 3000 Hub Motor

Post by Rix » Jun 20 2015 7:47pm

eTrike wrote:Still drooling over those controllers... but I don't see it happening for some time.
It was clearance for the color, no mention of blemishes: http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... 31&t=68300
http://holmeshobbies.com/Holmes-MMP-19x ... -BLK1.html

Click on this link, and you will notice the words "BLIM" at the end of the description, this was what I was referring too. That said, I didn't notice it on the red description.

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Re: MXUS 3000 Hub Motor

Post by Rix » Jun 20 2015 7:49pm

moonshine wrote:Rix,

I'm pumped to see your new build! Let me know what settings you end up with for the Max-E
Will do Moonshine. As far as setting goes, my intention is performance based acceleration. I imagine my throttle ramp up will be steep.

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Re: MXUS 3000 Hub Motor

Post by Rix » Jun 20 2015 10:07pm

I meant "BLEM" not BLIM. Yah Etrike, for me, a new rim only stays new until my first ride, then they get dinged and scratched, that's why I wouldn't hesitate for a second to by a blemished rim at 50% off or what ever it comes out too. As long as the bead isn't bent, you rim you be fine. Can you take pic and post it, I am curious as to what the dent looks like. One of my 18x1.4 rims has a flat spot on the bead, like it was dropped from high above.

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Re: MXUS 3000 Hub Motor

Post by markz » Jun 20 2015 10:12pm

Its a good motor, really heavy, lots of power.
Just need the moto rim.
Last edited by markz on Jun 28 2015 9:57pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: MXUS 3000 Hub Motor

Post by Rix » Jun 20 2015 10:16pm

markz wrote:...Well running flag like a drunkard trying to get home, I am sold on a moto rim, DOT tire blah blah blah!



You and me both brother.

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Re: MXUS 3000 Hub Motor

Post by BoomerChomsi » Jul 06 2015 12:06pm

Hi all,

What size nut does this motor has? M14....?? pitch...??

Thank you!
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Re: MXUS 3000 Hub Motor

Post by wesnewell » Jul 06 2015 2:39pm

I use these on the inside of the dropouts.
http://monsterfastener.com/item/jns-195
Need Advice? https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... =3&t=66302
Mongoose 26" Ledge 2.1 mtb bike $99, yescomusa.com 48V 1000W rear hub kit $200, Hua Tong 72V 40A controller $35, 10ah 24s lipo $217=~43mph, range=45 miles @ 20mph. 25K miles and still going strong.
Huffy Fortress 3.0 with MXUS 3000 4T motor, 24s lipo, 96V 60A controller. Total cost with extras <$700. Top speed ~50mph
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Re: MXUS 3000 Hub Motor

Post by Rix » Jul 06 2015 3:19pm

wesnewell wrote:I use these on the inside of the dropouts.
http://monsterfastener.com/item/jns-195
As a spacer?

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Re: MXUS 3000 Hub Motor

Post by mikebikerad » Jul 06 2015 4:32pm

I got my second taste of this motor with a sine wave control a week ago on a neighbors bike.........IT IS LIKE RIDING ON A MAGIC CARPET. There is almost no cogging with the sine wave controller, I was speechless how smooth it was.

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Re: MXUS 3000 Hub Motor

Post by Rix » Jul 06 2015 6:04pm

mikebikerad wrote:I got my second taste of this motor with a sine wave control a week ago on a neighbors bike.........IT IS LIKE RIDING ON A MAGIC CARPET. There is almost no cogging with the sine wave controller, I was speechless how smooth it was.
Bet it was quiet also.

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Re: MXUS 3000 Hub Motor

Post by markz » Jul 06 2015 6:51pm

.....So Lyens Infineon controllers are what square wave?

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