CA3-DP Help!

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markz   100 GW

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CA3-DP Help!

Post by markz » Jun 30 2015 8:26pm

All this time I have been running without my CA3-DP plugged in to my Lyen 18fet 4110 controller with MXUS 3000W 4504 4T motor, now I want to actually use it since I paid for it and all. I tried playing around with it, I thought I got the poles wrong, but its set right at 23.

When I plug in the CA, and I turn the throttle, the motor turns slowly. Now I have my throttle plugged into the controller. Just now I am messing around on Youtube, and I see buddy setting up his CA for the exact same setup as me. He has his throttle through the CA, I would hazard a guess through one of the Accessories connectors.

Would this acutally cause the motor to spin so slow.
Because when I disconnect the CA, man I fly, I really fly, I go so fast and the throttle is so sensitive I got to baby the throttle.

So when I hook up the CA3-DP, I noticed a bunch of cables coming off the front, in the velcro thingy.

I never really took much time to know what each cable does.
But I guess now I hook everything up to the CA, it goes through the CA, then only one cable to my Lyen 18fet 4110 controller. Then of course theres the 3 phase wires and the hall wires that are hooked up.

I go to ebikes.ca, and I find what these cables are.....

6 pin connector to CA-LDP compatable controller - I assume this is the long cable that goes to my Lyen.
DC Power
Analogger
THUN Sensor
Accessories (4 connectors) - I assume these are the ones I hook up my throttle to, any switches I want, not sure what the other 2 are for. But yes I want a 3 speed switch to tame this motor.

Any help would be appreciated. I checked and my current throttle connector is to big for the CA, not sure what I will do, so I havent been able to hook the throttle up yet, because I am doing the big 8 hour charge on my batteries.

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Re: CA3-DP Help!

Post by bowlofsalad » Jun 30 2015 10:06pm


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nutnspecial   1.21 GW

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Re: CA3-DP Help!

Post by nutnspecial » Jun 30 2015 10:55pm

cut.jpg
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:lol: Eliminate the green wire and you get monitoring from the new ca's without the controller defaulting to a low setting due to multiple perceived throttle inputs. That's how I'm running right now.

Search for 'jst tool' thread for a decent tool and places to buy the connectors, for when you decide to make use of the ca3's control functions and run throttle and 3 way to it?

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Re: CA3-DP Help!

Post by teklektik » Jul 01 2015 12:44am

markz wrote:When I plug in the CA, and I turn the throttle, the motor turns slowly. Now I have my throttle plugged into the controller.
...
I checked and my current throttle connector is to big for the CA, not sure what I will do,
You need to download the Unofficial Guide. This link is also on the Grin site (you really need to look for manuals, you know?)

The V3 can operate in any of three modes (see Guide section: "3.2 Operating Modes: Normal vs Legacy"):
  • :cry: Monitor-Only Mode - all control functions disabled - just a really really expensive meter - (duh)
  • :? Legacy V2 Mode - crippled operation with only CA V2 limiting features - (Current Limiting, LVC, etc)
  • :D Normal Mode - (all cool stuff is available - Throttle Dead Zone Elimination, Current Throttle, Throttle Ramping, etc)
In order to use the CA features that you paid for, you want to run in 'normal mode'.

Your controller may be either V2 or V3 style which will be verified when you follow the installation steps in the Guide (specifically "4.2.1.1 Direct Connect: Controllers with CA Interface Connectors").

Meanwhile - you have two options right now until you make make the 'normal mode' throttle wiring/connector changes:
  1. Run the CA in 'monitor-only mode' where you get no control features at all - just data display.
    (not recommended - for obvious reasons... )
  2. Run the CA in 'legacy mode' with only CA V2 capabilities (current limiting, LVC cutoff, etc).
    (not recommended - better than option (1) but Current Throttle to tame your motor is not available)
Setting up either of these two modes is described in the manual. Depending on your controller interface type, you can accomplish either of the above (1) exclusively with settings or (2) possibly by moving a soldered connection on the CA PCB. It appears from the symptoms you describe that your controller has a V2 interface and the matter can be addressed with settings, but the Guide test will tell.
  • DO NOT CUT WIRES as recommended by the post above until you have investigated the controller type and/or found that the PCB soldering option is not the route you wish to pursue.
In the end, you will need to replace the throttle connector to get 'normal mode' operation. You can buy a 'CONBAG' of connectors and JSTCrimp tool from Grin or many other sources. Again, the Guide details the wiring options - make sure you understand what needs to be done before springing for goods...
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Re: CA3-DP Help!

Post by nutnspecial » Jul 01 2015 1:16pm

Yeah, don't just cut wires, I was being funny lol. Just de-pinning the green is less drastic.

Nice rundown Tek, I didn't know that much about the legacy mode, and think I'll give it a shot before exploring v3 full capability. Love the idea of amp limit settings and temp monitor/rollback.

To be honest, I'm a little nervous adding something else between the throttle and controller due to an extremely limited margin of error/problems on an extreme setup. (5-30 mph in about 2 blinks lol, and that's moderating throttle to keep from flipping :lol: )

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teklektik   10 GW

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Re: CA3-DP Help!

Post by teklektik » Jul 01 2015 3:52pm

nutspecial wrote: To be honest, I'm a little nervous adding something else between the throttle and controller...
You have a kill switch, right?

My 14 year old car is completely computer controlled - computers work the throttle, the boost, the injectors, the transmission, and just about everything else. The accelerator works a pot and the floor shifter is just a big switch.

"The times they are a-changin..."
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Re: CA3-DP Help!

Post by nutnspecial » Jul 03 2015 10:51am

The controller is already doing what it does, it's not like i'm upgrading from a 'mouse in a wheel' lol.

The point was I'm hesitant to add ANOTHER link in the chain of control, for fear of failure- Possibly due to me not being smarter than the 'tool'.

Example: I had the same thing happening with a limited throttle when ca3 was plugged in, and tried to change the settings in the ca to fix, not realizing I needed a 'hard disconnect' to stop faking out the controller. Changing the settings without having a firm grasp of the ca resulted in 6kw WOT in the garage. :shock: (I didn't understand that even though no inputs were going thru the ca, it was still capable of overiding the controller) That makes a helluva mess when the bike upsets parts bins of hundreds of small parts and ends up upside down in a corner burning the rubber to the wall. :P

I'll carefully try legacy mode sometime, and eventually try the full benefits of ca3 with power/torque throttle. Honestly I'm waiting to hear how others like it and have set it up with higher power setups.

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teklektik   10 GW

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Re: CA3-DP Help!

Post by teklektik » Jul 03 2015 11:34am

Sometimes it's just a matter of RTM...

(The first step in the install process)
BikeSafety.png
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Re: CA3-DP Help!

Post by nutnspecial » Jul 03 2015 11:39am

I know, and you've done an excellent job with the manual. I really need to print it out to pore over it.

and ps, yep got ebrake, kill button at right thumb, keyed ignition, and also the 'mechanical' cutoff- the positive or negative battery wire is connected via bullet and insulator in such a way that in an emergency a quick yank of either acts kinda like the keyed tethers you see on personal watercraft and 4wheelers etc.

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teklektik   10 GW

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Re: CA3-DP Help!

Post by teklektik » Jul 03 2015 12:22pm

nutspecial wrote:I really need to print it out to pore over it.
That's really not the idea at all.

The V3 is complicated and many things interact in unforeseen ways. You don't want to first study the manual and try to get a Phd in V3 so you can wing an installation on your own.
  • All you need to do is have it available in the shop and follow the steps exactly without modification.
The step by step setup takes into account all those weird interactions and puts on the table the bits of info you need as you need them. Everything goes very simply without a lot of up-front reading and understanding. The size of the installation section is largely due to the various installation options for different controllers, etc. Only one particular option will apply and you will end up skipping the rest. The only fly in the ointment is that it is written for a techie audience - but that just means you may need to post questions - not skip a step because it's unclear.

Whether it's a good manual or bad is a matter of opinion - it is what it is... but if you don't follow the steps and use it as intended it will certainly be daunting, frustrating, and lead you astray.
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Re: CA3-DP Help!

Post by nutnspecial » Jul 03 2015 2:37pm

Everything you say is true, but why is it the wrong idea to want to print it out? What's so bad with that? You don't think it could even be a better medium?

I'm sure I will get a better experience with the capability to highlight, tag, thumb through, bracket, scan, flip, etc. Also visual cues of (the dirty page, the earmark, coffeestain etc).
I don't think a laptop or 'smart' mobile will even come close, but I'm not into that stuff anyway. I think touchscreen is the dumbing down of user interface in it's current state.

I'm gonna print and pore. It's jammed with good stuff, and that's the medium i want.
And I will want enough understanding to duplicate different desired results easily for varied criteria. That will take print for whatever my learning style is- good or bad.

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Re: CA3-DP Help!

Post by teklektik » Jul 03 2015 7:37pm

Printing is a fine approach. I was objecting to what seemed like a plan to study it to death before getting about the installation. This tends to overwhelm folks where simply 'reading and doing' works well to get the thing up an running. Deeper familiarity can come after you are riding and grinning....

That said - the second half of the Guide after the Basic Installation is quite different and the sections on Advanced Features are more in the study-and-plan category.

In any case, I hope it proves useful.... :D
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Re: CA3-DP Help!

Post by bobolicious » Jul 14 2015 10:20am

I also am having the same issue with my CA:CA3-DPS. When I use the v3 my throttle goes very slow and fast without using it. I read the V3 guide and installation parts about the throttle and it is to tech for me. I can understand like the first step or 2 then it goes sour. No clue. so for now I just don't use it. I would ask certain questions but I don't understand any of it. I have a 36v throttle. It would be nice for some simple guides or if someone could provide any examples of what they use for 36v

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Re: CA3-DP Help!

Post by markz » Jul 14 2015 1:48pm

What do you mean by it goes slow and fast?

Mine always went slow, and like you I disconnected the CA and I could go fast.
I didnt realize throttles were made for different voltages.
I am currently using my "Strong" store eBike frame with angled down top tubes for centrally located battery placement (stock), was 24V leads with geared, Im using that throttle on 64V setup.
I did buy a throttle either from Lyen or ebikes.ca. Thumb throttle.
I however need 72-74V batteries first, and second reprogram Lyen 18fet before Im riding again. Which will be awhile. Depending on shipping.

I believe the problem MIGHT be shunt perhaps. I have no clue. Or default mode.

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Re: CA3-DP Help!

Post by bobolicious » Jul 14 2015 6:12pm

Yeah there is different V throttles. I tried messing with all the settings for throttle on my V3 and still not sure. The first step says put it on pass - thru and then read what the volts say on your CA. For some reason mine reads 00 and 00. I will wait and see If anyone can chime in and give us some help here.

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Re: CA3-DP Help!

Post by crossbreak » Jul 15 2015 2:20pm

did you cut the green wire? if not, it cant work

or: connect your throttle to the CA. much better solution
I believe the problem MIGHT be shunt perhaps. I have no clue. Or default mode.
you will never find out as long as you dont try what people told you

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Re: CA3-DP Help!

Post by bobolicious » Jul 16 2015 10:07am

To someone who knows what they are doing saying (Cut The Green Wire) would make sense but to someone who does not know much about the wiring you would have to post something longer then 1 line sentence for us to understand. As I stated I read the manual several times and I was unsure on any of it. I am willing to cut and modify wires but i would like to know exactly what I'm doing before i do that. Also i posted my comment way after that response you made cut the green wire because i don't have the same CA he does so i was not sure if that mattered :)

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Re: CA3-DP Help!

Post by nutnspecial » Jul 16 2015 1:02pm

Hi B, as far as I understand:

ca3 is designed to have all inputs run directy into it. It then communicates to the controller using the green wire, the other 5 or so are all just for monitoring I think.

The controller type has a bearing here, but in my circumstance, to run the ca3 as 'monitor only' the green wire will need to be disconnected from the controller in some way. Even when all your inputs (throttle, speedswitch, cranksensor) are going to the controller, the ca3's green wire looks like another throttle to the controller, which confuses it.

It really is all in the instructions, including the proper intended way to use the ca3. I bet Tek would be happy to help if you're having trouble.

If I could, I would specifically do ca tutorials on utube, highlighting different ways to setup and the results.

Ps, I have no idea what kind of a controller uses a 36v throttle, or if the ca can be used for it.
I thought all throttles were either resistive (pot, ie magura), or hall (0-5v signal).

Good luck!

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Re: CA3-DP Help!

Post by teklektik » Jul 16 2015 4:34pm

It seems clear the Guide is too technical for you and there are no other written options, so you really should be making use of ebike.ca's excellent Technical Support.

They are interested in seeing you enjoy your purchase, but it's up to you to solicit their assistance...

Pack it in on the 'free advice' public forum and get the vendor technical support you already paid for.
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Re: CA3-DP Help!

Post by bobolicious » Aug 04 2015 10:36am

Thank you Nut, that did help and thanks for being nice, that goes along way. If someone assumes i should know what i'm doing then i don't even listen to them because they are not usually much help. I will try your suggestions and let you know how everythings working. Thanks again for the help even tho i responded late as i have been very busy.

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CA3 Beta Release – B22

Post by tomjasz » Aug 04 2015 12:37pm

Is the version on electric rider, Beta Release – B22, the most current?
Thanks Justin_le we're here thanks to you. All the best to the mods for their tireless work keeping it on an even keel.

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Re: CA3 Beta Release – B22

Post by teklektik » Aug 04 2015 4:44pm

tomjasz wrote:Is the version on electric rider, Beta Release – B22, the most current?
The Electric Rider B22 copy of the Guide is from Mar 2013 - it's as old as dirt...
  • The present software version is 3.0p11.
    The present Guide version is 3.0p6-l.
Please do not download anything from a site other than the ebikes.ca V3 page or the Guide post here on ES.

In spite of a request to LINK to the V3 Guide and materials instead of COPYing private versions for subsequent download, some shops insist on doing so to fatten up their 'Customer Support' page. While a simple link is a one-time deal that requires no ongoing maintenance and always gives the latest stuff, private copies go stale - and you can see the result as in the case of ERiders...
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Re: CA3 Beta Release – B22

Post by tomjasz » Aug 07 2015 4:27pm

teklektik wrote: Please do not download anything from a site other than the ebikes.ca V3 page or the Guide post here on ES.

In spite of a request to LINK to the V3 Guide and materials instead of COPYing private versions for subsequent download, some shops insist on doing so to fatten up their 'Customer Support' page. While a simple link is a one-time deal that requires no ongoing maintenance and always gives the latest stuff, private copies go stale - and you can see the result as in the case of ERiders...
What a great piece of work. However for the new users and me, the terminally inane, is there a guide for basic setup? I get overwhelmed trying to sort through the manual. There's just so much information. I've managed to get most things right but am still confused about some settings. Would it be acceptable to start a thread and post my motor, battery, and controller and have someone point out errors or omissions? Several strokes and early onset dementia make it difficult to sort. That's my biggest struggle trying to keep up and sort information. There's so much to sort. Having a BBS0x to disassemble and learn on has made me comfortable with all things BBS, but controllers and such remain elusive.
Thanks Justin_le we're here thanks to you. All the best to the mods for their tireless work keeping it on an even keel.

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Re: CA3 Beta Release – B22

Post by teklektik » Aug 07 2015 5:23pm

tomjasz wrote:Would it be acceptable to start a thread and post my motor, battery, and controller and have someone point out errors or omissions? Several strokes and early onset dementia make it difficult to sort.
It's best to post to the V3 Beta thread - that's always monitored for questions and there are many V3-savvy folks who can help there as well as Justin. Other private problem threads like this one are sort of catch as catch can...

Unfortunately, this thing is not a toaster and it can't just be plugged in - it's more like setting up a home theater unit - it takes some reading and tweaking to get it right. If you start in the installation section (4.0) and do each step as you read it, it should go okay. There are many hardware setups possible, but only one will apply and the rest just get skipped. If some step is unclear, don't skip the step or start trying things - instead post up a question to the beta thread and we can try to clear it up. Then you can continue along to the next step.

The Guide is what it is - if it's too techie and ES is not getting you what you need, then as mentioned above, Grin Tech Support is super and will give you help to get things sorted regardless of your skills.
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Re: CA3-DP Help!

Post by tomjasz » Aug 08 2015 11:50am

Thanks for your usual excellent advice and guidance. Overall I'm getting through. I've actually managed to help a user get his setup going, I'm just trying to get the best possible setup. I'm plugging along taking baby steps and notes. An amazing piece of technology. Sadly the old noodle takes longer to grasp concepts and they don't always stay locked in. The joys of the golden years... I'm used to another forum where snarky reminders of "we don't spoon feed" were met with negatives for that respondent. Quite different egos here. However, you and several others have been great! Thanks! Moved the manual to my iPad for easier access and more study. Doesn't everyone lay in bed and read CA3 manuals? Now if I could only tie it to my BBS0x! Someday...
Thanks Justin_le we're here thanks to you. All the best to the mods for their tireless work keeping it on an even keel.

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