24FET 4110 Controller Modified Lyen MII Edition

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ecross   1 kW

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24FET 4110 Controller Modified Lyen MII Edition

Post by ecross » Sep 08 2019 4:49am

-for sale:

24FET 4110 Controller Modified

infos:
-for 20S to max. 24S batterys
-setup for up to 100,80V battery
-for 24S: 24 x 4,20V 100,80V
-Regen via brake switch modded to work up to 100v
-3 Speed 33%/66%/99%

-Cycle Analyst Port
-Programming Plug Installed

-Setup, DIY, for max. 150A - 200 Battery Amps to 195A - 260 Phase Amps

-Selling for 300 Euro + shipping
-or send offer
-only EU

-postage 8,00 for Germany - 18,00 Euro for EU

Location: Germany
Attachments
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SSL20309.JPG
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SSL20310.JPG
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NC 2805 mod.
H4080 mod.
4504 mod.
4503 mod. with watercooling
LiIon 24S16P from Sony, Sanyo, Panasonic
Siemens 2000W travel charger

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ecross   1 kW

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Posts: 321
Joined: Jun 11 2011 2:09pm
Location: Munich

Re: 24FET 4110 Controller Modified Lyen MII Edition

Post by ecross » Sep 14 2019 12:59am

-new price: 290,00 Euro
NC 2805 mod.
H4080 mod.
4504 mod.
4503 mod. with watercooling
LiIon 24S16P from Sony, Sanyo, Panasonic
Siemens 2000W travel charger

User avatar
ecross   1 kW

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Posts: 321
Joined: Jun 11 2011 2:09pm
Location: Munich

Re: 24FET 4110 Controller Modified Lyen MII Edition

Post by ecross » Sep 15 2019 12:41pm

-new price: 280,00 Euro
NC 2805 mod.
H4080 mod.
4504 mod.
4503 mod. with watercooling
LiIon 24S16P from Sony, Sanyo, Panasonic
Siemens 2000W travel charger

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methods   10 GW

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Re: 24FET 4110 Controller Modified Lyen MII Edition

Post by methods » Sep 16 2019 11:24am

Bet that thing hammers.

I have not kept up over the years but I think a lot of folks are moving toward smaller controllers with more advanced functionality. Lets see...

https://www.ebikes.ca/shop/electric-bic ... llers.html

Hmmm...
Skimming I see a lot of words like "Waterproof" and "Field Orientation"

...

Something like this 24 fet for sale is a different sort of deal. If you want wicked bruit force out of a big low KV motor then this is the way to do it. Run a hundred volts with a 100A limit on Low KV... and you will literally bend metal.

Most folks are just looking to ride smooth. .. .....

I would pay a few hundred bucks for a big bulky controller.
Most people wont any more because they can get reasonable power out of a very tiny package.

Not the same tho...

Always a place for the "Big Block"

-methods
Increasing battery voltage and controller current limit will result in a non linear experience

john61ct   1 MW

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Re: 24FET 4110 Controller Modified Lyen MII Edition

Post by john61ct » Sep 16 2019 8:23pm

methods wrote:Bet that thing hammers.
Quick question, just for you 8-)

Context: heavy cargo/tandem say 400+lb gross, in Utah and Colorado type mountain landscapes, so maximum torque is needed. Speed is not at all important, figure at 10-12mph going up hill, 25mph max speed on the flats. Range efficiency, miles per kWh is **critical**

Call it 100 battery amps available for short times, usual longer stretches say 60A max. CAv3 to be used for overtemp throttling.

Question: from my reading, I thought 48-54V was as high a voltage as I wanted to go, then I came across this quote in my past notes:

> The 72v ecosystem is better for going above 2500w

Is that true, even when speeds will not get past say 20-25mph?

In other words:
Is there a (class of) motor out there - that **requires** voltage over the 52-54V range - that is so compelling, delivering robust reliable super-high power / torque at **low** speeds, that makes it worth the hassle going to 60+V or even 72V?

Fat wiring, no problem.

Flippy says "more volts = always better"

Ed Lyen says
For the best power to efficiency ratio at 25mph or less (especially if torque is the priority), the recommended voltage is around 48-52V.

The reason is that the controller's MOSFETs do not need to work as hard (by minimizing the need to switch on and off internally). Therefore, there will be less wasted heat produced.

In addition, the throttle characteristic is more linear, when compared with using a 72V system, which is critical for the hill climb.

The only reason to use 72V or higher, is if speed is the priority and/or if the existing wiring on your e-bike setup is on the thin or skinny side. The power (in wattage) on the smaller wire(s) can be compensated with higher voltage.
Related threads
viewtopic.php?p=1495908#p1495908




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methods   10 GW

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Re: 24FET 4110 Controller Modified Lyen MII Edition

Post by methods » Sep 18 2019 4:12pm

You have Motor Reliability
You have Controller Reliability

If you want to create Torque then the first thing to consider is Gear Ratio.
This means wheel diameter and KV of motor and Voltage
You need all 3 to make a statement

The second thing to think about is Squared Losses
Current Squared = Heat
Speed Squared = Friction

So if you are going slow wind is not your enemy.... but you are cutting flux slowly....

In this case, in my opinion, you want lots of poles and lots of voltage
TICK
TICK
TICK

Unless you have advanced algorithms (here we are talking about leveraging a STANDARD trap ebike controller)

In that case you want to minimize your wheel diamter
Minimize your KV
Maximize your voltage

Mosfets in a controller produce heat by the current squared times the ON resistance.
The more you switch on and off, the more you are hitting sub-optimal ON resistance
But ... below some point... that is linear
What is a much larger factor is the Current Squared

High Voltage has other drawbacks... Which we can look at in other ways... but when it comes to transferring power.. specifically switching power...

You can switch current
You can switch voltage
Which fails first and in what way?

...

Switching current is NEVER GOOD
Current does not want to change

Switching voltage just requires understanding of drawbacks

So..
If I wanted to go up hill all day every day with high reliability

1) Smaller diameter wheel
2) Lower KV motor
3) Higher voltage battery pack

It is BOGGING that overheats motors. . .

It is BOGGING that pops controllers...

Same as Ping in an internal combustion engine

... hmmm... other ways to say it...

Go get your Ryobi Drill
Set it to #2 high speed setting
Stall it out
Over and over and over

Get a new drill
set it to #1 high torque setting
Stall it out
Over and over and over

What it boils down to is having an appropriate amount of torque on hand to get the job that needs doing done. There is no sense in making edict about some random battery voltage (in absence of KV or wheel diamter). It makes no sense to make a statement about a given motor KV (in absence of excitation Voltage and Current) ... and... we all know that smaller wheels make more torque and result in less bogging....

...

Get a 6 fet controller
Populate it with the best fets you can find
Run it at FULL THROTTLE for 20 minutes
Run it at 20% Throttle for 20 minutes
Report back

Get 2 hub motors
One low KV
One high KV
Lace them both into 26" wheel
Run them both at a Constant Current, at a Constant Voltage, and at a Constant Power
From that you will find the truth of interdependent variables

... Altho flippy annoys me (not sure why, he sounds like Luke in disguise, I know Lukes voice) he is right if he said that high voltage is always better.

To a degree...

To prove that:
Get 2pcs 6fet controller
Configure them to run 2000W each
Run one at 24V and whatever current it takes
Run one at 100V and whatever current it takes
Run whatever mosfets you have to

Which one failed?
Which one lived?

(of course to do that test... you must have a fair test in place... which means DIFFERENT MOTORS of DIFFERENT KV... so DIFFERENT LOADS)

IF
We are to say that one battery voltage works better than another...
IF
We are saying that is true for a specific KV+diamter
Fine

Otherwise -
Takes 3 formulas to solve a 3 variable equation

Ok bye

-methods
Increasing battery voltage and controller current limit will result in a non linear experience

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Re: 24FET 4110 Controller Modified Lyen MII Edition

Post by john61ct » Sep 18 2019 5:49pm


methods wrote:If you want to create Torque then the first thing to consider is Gear Ratio.
Yes from a practical POV, for efficiently pushing heavy weight up long steep hills, I concede gearing external from the motor will be needed.

But for my foundational 101-learning about these issues, positing DD.

Reducing wheel size is limited by rough terrain + no suspension, fatty tires compensating a bit but I think a decent wheel diameter is a given, even if using motorcycle/moped type tires.

Kv will be low to favor torque over top speed.

I want voltage to be 52, 14S LI, unless **really compelling** reason to go higher, if that really does gets me

1. more torque at lower speed
2. less heat at given torque level
3. greater energy efficiency, kW/km

then I'll concede and go to 20S 72V

A sine wave / FOC controller is fine if that makes the difference? not sure why square wave / trap is assumed?



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ecross   1 kW

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Re: 24FET 4110 Controller Modified Lyen MII Edition

Post by ecross » Sep 23 2019 5:08am

-new price: 260,00 Euro
NC 2805 mod.
H4080 mod.
4504 mod.
4503 mod. with watercooling
LiIon 24S16P from Sony, Sanyo, Panasonic
Siemens 2000W travel charger

User avatar
ecross   1 kW

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Posts: 321
Joined: Jun 11 2011 2:09pm
Location: Munich

Re: 24FET 4110 Controller Modified Lyen MII Edition

Post by ecross » Oct 12 2019 4:03am

-new price: 250,00 Euro
NC 2805 mod.
H4080 mod.
4504 mod.
4503 mod. with watercooling
LiIon 24S16P from Sony, Sanyo, Panasonic
Siemens 2000W travel charger

User avatar
methods   10 GW

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Location: Santa Cruz CA
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Re: 24FET 4110 Controller Modified Lyen MII Edition

Post by methods » Oct 21 2019 12:22pm

If I were not a broke hobo. . . I would buy that thing right now.

:mrgreen:

Nothing like a big beefy-ass controller!
mmm... Torque

... I do see tho that advancements in technology have created a new set of controllers that are so much more compact.
and

These days I really am not in the business of Test so much as Practicality...

-methods
Increasing battery voltage and controller current limit will result in a non linear experience

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ecross   1 kW

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Location: Munich

Re: 24FET 4110 Controller Modified Lyen MII Edition

Post by ecross » Oct 24 2019 2:04am

-new price: 240,00 Euro
NC 2805 mod.
H4080 mod.
4504 mod.
4503 mod. with watercooling
LiIon 24S16P from Sony, Sanyo, Panasonic
Siemens 2000W travel charger

User avatar
minde28383   10 kW

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Re: 24FET 4110 Controller Modified Lyen MII Edition

Post by minde28383 » Nov 08 2019 2:38pm

solved.
Last edited by minde28383 on Nov 09 2019 12:30pm, edited 1 time in total.
ebike build in progress
CN 5.5kw scooter (on sale)
E Mindless Maverick Talisman longboard, 2.2KW motor, 150Amps controller (on sale)

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ecross   1 kW

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Location: Munich

Re: 24FET 4110 Controller Modified Lyen MII Edition

Post by ecross » Nov 09 2019 9:31am

-send PM
NC 2805 mod.
H4080 mod.
4504 mod.
4503 mod. with watercooling
LiIon 24S16P from Sony, Sanyo, Panasonic
Siemens 2000W travel charger

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