Votol EM-100 & EM-150 controllers

General Discussion about electric vehicles.
twikis   10 mW

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Re: Votol EM-100 & EM-150 controllers

Post by twikis » Jan 18 2020 1:55pm

Ah well I've already got a Kelly KLS6018S... Phew, 5 is a lot though

Read the whole thread, but no info about lowest LVC. I've got a 11s24p 18650 DIY battery because it's the maximum voltage battery you can put in a Cityel, without risking damage to the rest of the hardware (originally came with 3x12V lead acid).

Ok, but how does it determine what 100% RPM are, without an extra setting for it? Because for example 100% rpm @40V may be 4000rpm, and 3000 rpm @30V. Without an initialization or a dedicated setting where you fill in the rpm you wish for, imo the controller can't accurately limit the rpm to e.g. 2000 rpm/50% at all charge levels. Another point is that I don't always plug the battery in fully charged, which means the controller might have different base level voltages/rpm it's starting off from.

The thing is that I want to be sure to get the functionality I wish for (and therefore I want to properly understand how it works), before buying this controller...

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Laerson   1 mW

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Re: Votol EM-100 & EM-150 controllers

Post by Laerson » Jan 19 2020 5:05am

twikis wrote:
Jan 18 2020 1:55pm
Ah well I've already got a Kelly KLS6018S... Phew, 5 is a lot though

Read the whole thread, but no info about lowest LVC. I've got a 11s24p 18650 DIY battery because it's the maximum voltage battery you can put in a Cityel, without risking damage to the rest of the hardware (originally came with 3x12V lead acid).

Ok, but how does it determine what 100% RPM are, without an extra setting for it? Because for example 100% rpm @40V may be 4000rpm, and 3000 rpm @30V. Without an initialization or a dedicated setting where you fill in the rpm you wish for, imo the controller can't accurately limit the rpm to e.g. 2000 rpm/50% at all charge levels. Another point is that I don't always plug the battery in fully charged, which means the controller might have different base level voltages/rpm it's starting off from.

The thing is that I want to be sure to get the functionality I wish for (and therefore I want to properly understand how it works), before buying this controller...
I connected a variable power supply to my EM150 and simulated an almost empty 11S battery at 33V (11S * 3,0V), it works fine.

Also tested the ''speed limit'' setting at 50%. At full throttle the RPM declines when I decrease the voltage. So when you plug in your battery half charged, you get 50% of the top speed you normally have with a half charge. I hoped the controller was smart enough to keep the RPM constant, because it could, but it doesn't. It would be nice to always have the same top speed regardless of the battery charge.

larsb   1 MW

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Re: Votol EM-100 & EM-150 controllers

Post by larsb » Jan 19 2020 6:14am

That’s poor design :lowbatt:
So it basically just lowers max PWM duty cycle to 50% if you set 50%

84/60=71% so there’s a 29% max reduction in your set rpm limit over the full discharge. Not good.
Ride on!

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Laerson   1 mW

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Re: Votol EM-100 & EM-150 controllers

Post by Laerson » Jan 19 2020 6:26am

Well, for this price you can't really complain, can you? :wink:

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Re: Votol EM-100 & EM-150 controllers

Post by larsb » Jan 19 2020 6:59am

Yes you can. It’s crappy implementation, shouldn’t drive cost :pancake:
Ride on!

twikis   10 mW

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Re: Votol EM-100 & EM-150 controllers

Post by twikis » Jan 19 2020 10:14am

Well they just lost a few sells because of it ha

And thanks @Laerson, for putting the effort into trying this out!

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Re: Votol EM-100 & EM-150 controllers

Post by Bartosh » Jan 19 2020 3:09pm

Hey guys. I just got a brand new controller. Won't discuss QS' warranty/after-sales service/support here, not a place for this story, maybe in a different thread, if they piss me off even more [; Anyway I installed it again and gave it a spin. What can I say... My votol em-150sp just sucks, at least for now.
SilentEnduro wrote:
Dec 23 2019 3:24pm
hi all, new question regarding EM150 with QS138:
wery often on hard hills it seems that controller is cutting power, you open a full throttle but nothing's happend.
I goes this way when rear wheel slipping for a while.
Controller is warm and motor is cold.
Is it possible to somehoe adjust this? and have some kind on gear for hard hills?
I can confirm, there's some kind of (current/current-rise-gain) limit in place. In my case it hit after about 15 -25 minutes of "abuse" (eg. long, steep uphills), can't point the moment when it happened exactly, I just got surprised by it at some point.

As my nucular 24f is still on its way, in the meantime I'm going to check if it's not [controller/motor]temp-related. Need to take a laptop for a ride with me. What's interesting, controller's temp seems to be incorrect. For example, the app shows 27 deg (C, I suppose) at 15C ambient, as soon as the votol is powered up, and it rises to 30 after several twists of a throtte (at noload). This looks strange to me. I checked the temp readings when I got back, still being in the limited mode: controller 34, motor 46. Wtf? I don't like it at all. And I haven't gone crazy with my settings (yet): 150A dc, 9960 ph, max torque settngs (255), no fw, no soft start, sport mode, start @ 83v, stop @ 70v.

What needs to be confirmed: is the sport mode time limited? I've been using this mode mostly. There was a huge difference in motor's response (vs the "normal" mode), even though I set exactly same settings in both. I turned off the controller several times, trying to reset it, with no success. I didn't wait for the caps to discharge completely though. Will soon have a look again.

Anyway I will contact votol/qs and ask them if this "issue" can be taken care of with a custom ini file or a firmware update.

I've been using the most up to date version of the software from siaecosys website. Though, several times my controller's config got broken with some bogus values. Especially when I wanted to edit throttle voltage levels (finally works btw) and "start settings". Once, it even zeroed out the whole port settings area and the controller got bricked until I set it from the beginning. Not a fan of votol atm.

SilverLine   100 W

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Re: Votol EM-100 & EM-150 controllers

Post by SilverLine » Jan 19 2020 3:35pm

Bartosh wrote:
Jan 19 2020 3:09pm
Hey guys. I just got a brand new controller. Won't discuss QS' warranty/after-sales service/support here, not a place for this story, maybe in a different thread, if they piss me off even more [; Anyway I installed it again and gave it a spin. What can I say... My votol em-150sp just sucks, at least for now.
SilentEnduro wrote:
Dec 23 2019 3:24pm
hi all, new question regarding EM150 with QS138:
wery often on hard hills it seems that controller is cutting power, you open a full throttle but nothing's happend.
I goes this way when rear wheel slipping for a while.
Controller is warm and motor is cold.
Is it possible to somehoe adjust this? and have some kind on gear for hard hills?
I can confirm, there's some kind of (current/current-rise-gain) limit in place. In my case it hit after about 15 -25 minutes of "abuse" (eg. long, steep uphills), can't point the moment when it happened exactly, I just got surprised by it at some point.

As my nucular 24f is still on its way, in the meantime I'm going to check if it's not [controller/motor]temp-related. Need to take a laptop for a ride with me. What's interesting, controller's temp seems to be incorrect. For example, the app shows 27 deg (C, I suppose) at 15C ambient, as soon as the votol is powered up, and it rises to 30 after several twists of a throtte (at noload). This looks strange to me. I checked the temp readings when I got back, still being in the limited mode: controller 34, motor 46. Wtf? I don't like it at all. And I haven't gone crazy with my settings (yet): 150A dc, 9960 ph, max torque settngs (255), no fw, no soft start, sport mode, start @ 83v, stop @ 70v.

What needs to be confirmed: is the sport mode time limited? I've been using this mode mostly. There was a huge difference in motor's response (vs the "normal" mode), even though I set exactly same settings in both. I turned off the controller several times, trying to reset it, with no success. I didn't wait for the caps to discharge completely though. Will soon have a look again.

Anyway I will contact votol/qs and ask them if this "issue" can be taken care of with a custom ini file or a firmware update.

I've been using the most up to date version of the software from siaecosys website. Though, several times my controller's config got broken with some bogus values. Especially when I wanted to edit throttle voltage levels (finally works btw) and "start settings". Once, it even zeroed out the whole port settings area and the controller got bricked until I set it from the beginning. Not a fan of votol atm.
Looking forward to here what QS replys. Regarding the current-limiting thing you are mentionen in sport mode, I have noticed that as well. I thought it had something to do with the voltage reading from the battery ("soft under voltage") And they are mentionen something about wrong reading in the voltol fw (according to the manual). So today I lowered my "soft undervoltage" to 61v, and took a test drive. I did not have any problems today regarding "amp power" but I need to do more test, to be sure. What is your thought about this ??

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Re: Votol EM-100 & EM-150 controllers

Post by Bartosh » Jan 19 2020 3:40pm

Hi SilverLine. Thanks for the confirmation. I set both of lvc vals to 53/51V during todays tests. I don't think I got that low with the sag. Do you also have a motor temp sensor connected? Will try to disable kty reading and give it a spin tomorrow.

Edit:
Btw I didn't mention it. I made one more test after the controller cooled down @ the same voltage. It was pulling hard.

You noticed it in normal (mid/"hige" (-;) or the sport mode also?

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Re: Votol EM-100 & EM-150 controllers

Post by SilverLine » Jan 19 2020 3:46pm

Bartosh wrote:
Jan 19 2020 3:40pm
Hi SilverLine. Thanks for the confirmation. I set both of lvc vals to 53/51V during todays tests. I don't think I got that low with the sag. Do you also have a motor temp sensor connected? Will try to disable kty reading and give it a spin tomorrow.

Edit:
Btw I didnt mentioned it. I made one more test after the controller cooled down @ the same voltage. It was pulling hard.

You're in normal (mid/"hige" (-;) or the sport mode?
Okay :confused: :cry:

No i´m not using any temp sensor..... and I have my votol150sp on 180 battery amps / bush bars amps.
Looking forward to hearing about what you find out

Im using the combo on a electric gokart. And after todays test, my votol was cold as ice, and my qs mid drive motor only like working temperature. I find it strange, if the votol is overheating, with the big alu profile it has.

I´m only driving in S-sport mode all the time, because of the "throttle response" you are mentionen, and power :-)

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Re: Votol EM-100 & EM-150 controllers

Post by Bartosh » Jan 19 2020 4:12pm

SilverLine wrote:
Jan 19 2020 3:46pm
No i´m not using any temp sensor..... and I have my votol150sp on 180 battery amps / bush bars amps.
Looking forward to hearing about what you find out

I´m only driving in S-sport mode all the time, because of the "throttle response" you are mentionen, and power :-)
Ok, so we know it's not motor temp-related. I suspect the sport mode may be time limited or something like that, like in different controllers, you can activate it for a short period of time and then need to wait before using it again.

I wouldn't mind using normal modes, but the difference in current rise speed and/or throttle mapping is huge, to visualize what I'm talking about https://s.amsu.ng/OXbvISX9YtnN

Maybe someone can confirm if this kind of motor response can be achieved in one of the regular modes. Then we could try to look for differences in our config files or hw/sw versions. For a record: I didn't test if there's a difference between mid and high modes in this manner (@ the same settings ofc).

Btw my sw 2.32, hw 1.13, 150sp with can.

SilverLine   100 W

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Re: Votol EM-100 & EM-150 controllers

Post by SilverLine » Jan 19 2020 5:39pm

I have same sw and hw numbers, and also Can.

Under sport mode. Ther is something about time, you can enable (log out time, and recovery time) But mine came default without this enabled. So no timer for s-mode i guess ?

Btw. Its funny that model number says "Em-100" when its actually em150. Mine does the same.

What about your end point for throttle ? 4,26v seems low ? My 5k potentiometer puts out 5v when going full throttle, so I set it to 5,1v in software.
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Bartosh   10 W

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Re: Votol EM-100 & EM-150 controllers

Post by Bartosh » Jan 19 2020 6:31pm

Yes, about these "automatic logout enadlers" (-; also disabled here, but maybe these values affect how the controller behaves anyway? Will try to set to 255 or as high as possible (despite it's in sec I suppose). We'll see. According to the manual, it should be enabled when a button is used instead of a switch. I like to have my throttle set this way (faster wot) + I wanted to be sure it covers 100%, we don't know what the actual reading is.

Btw it seems you have the soft start enabled in your settings. Though disabling it does not help in my case.

SilverLine   100 W

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Re: Votol EM-100 & EM-150 controllers

Post by SilverLine » Jan 20 2020 12:40am

Bartosh wrote:
Jan 19 2020 6:31pm
Yes, about these "automatic logout enadlers" (-; also disabled here, but maybe these values affect how the controller behaves anyway? Will try to set to 255 or as high as possible (despite it's in sec I suppose). We'll see. According to the manual, it should be enabled when a button is used instead of a switch. I like to have my throttle set this way (faster wot) + I wanted to be sure it covers 100%, we don't know what the actual reading is.

Btw it seems you have the soft start enabled in your settings. Though disabling it does not help in my case.
Sorry old picturer. I do not use soft start 😀

Miguel Angel   100 µW

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Re: Votol EM-100 & EM-150 controllers

Post by Miguel Angel » Jan 20 2020 9:05am

Hi group, I bought a votol em150s driver from qsmotor but it doesn't work well for me. My motor is 1500w.
1- the software does not recognize it as em150 but as em100
2- the engine works well at low rpm but not at high rpm
3- how the crusero mode is activated.
Thanks, any comments would be very helpful.

Bartosh   10 W

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Re: Votol EM-100 & EM-150 controllers

Post by Bartosh » Jan 20 2020 9:07am

Bartosh wrote:
Jan 19 2020 6:31pm
Yes, about these "automatic logout enadlers" (-; also disabled here, but maybe these values affect how the controller behaves anyway?
It actually works as expected - verified.

There's also no difference in current rise speed/gain between regular modes. It lags everywhere. It reaches 1.5k rpm tops on fast WOT/close. Even if the throttle is set to work as an on/off switch (kind of).

I also tried to tamper the ini file to set a higher soft start value (> 16) - no luck. Same with rate of rise in start settings. This would be very helpful, but the val seems to be 1 byte, so 255 max. Eg. 257 makes it 1. 0 = no current rise at all, no spin. Though, this can be filtered by the desktop app itself, needs to be verified. This is really killing me folks.

Qs/Votol haven't responded yet. The more of us, the better, so I encourage you to contact them directly.

Larsb, IIRC you've got an old S or P version of this controller. Can you give it a spin with no load/no chain, in a regular mode, and check out if you get an instant response like 4k rpm and above? Really fast opening and closing of a throttle. I wonder if they changed it in a new SP or it was always like that.

If it's temp-related, which I will verify on the go in couple days, maybe we need to focus on a pcb mod.

SilentEnduro, any news regarding this matter?

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Re: Votol EM-100 & EM-150 controllers

Post by ZERONEST » Jan 20 2020 9:50am

I am using votol em100 with qs 200w motor in small motocross bike and am also having some power cut outs, often when I am applying a lot of throttle but the wheel cannot spin ( if the wheel can spin It doesn't seem to cut ) I lowered the undervoltage value and it seems to have helped but I have still had it cut a couple of times.

I also have a huge lag in throttle response in the low med and high speed settings but it is perfectly responsive in the sport mode, so I am always using sport mode for now.

There is a lag both at the start of applying throttle and also as I close the throttle it takes a few millisec for the power to actually stop, It is very annoying and quite dangerous and basically makes the other speed settings useless as I really would like to adjust power values to gain more grip off road.

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Re: Votol EM-100 & EM-150 controllers

Post by Bartosh » Jan 20 2020 10:09am

Hey Zeronest, thanks for sharing. I wonder if you have the same sw version (despite the fact it's em100).

Regarding the decel lag you're describing, try to set both rate of rise and rate of decline to 255 (page1). There's a noticeable difference in motor response, but still not what we're after.

Miguel, I think you need to share some more details of your config and describe the problem better.

Miguel Angel   100 µW

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Re: Votol EM-100 & EM-150 controllers

Post by Miguel Angel » Jan 20 2020 11:36am

It's my first time using a votol em150s controller, I want it to work well on my 1500w 56 magnet hub motor, and how do I activate the cruise?
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SilverLine   100 W

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Re: Votol EM-100 & EM-150 controllers

Post by SilverLine » Jan 20 2020 11:40am

Bartosh wrote:
Jan 20 2020 10:09am
Hey Zeronest, thanks for sharing. I wonder if you have the same sw version (despite the fact it's em100).

Regarding the decel lag you're describing, try to set both rate of rise and rate of decline to 255 (page1). There's a noticeable difference in motor response, but still not what we're after.

Miguel, I think you need to share some more details of your config and describe the problem better.
Nice you are working on it 😀

As i told, after i decreased my voltage soft cut out, my problem seems to have gone away. I had a lot of voltage sag, so I thought that this must be my problem, since I only noticed the lack of power after some time. I have a bad cell in my battery i need to change, then I can test again , and se how it goes.

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Re: Votol EM-100 & EM-150 controllers

Post by Bartosh » Jan 20 2020 2:30pm

SilverLine wrote:
Jan 20 2020 11:40am
As i told, after i decreased my voltage soft cut out, my problem seems to have gone away.
Nice to hear. My initial settings were about 51/53V at 20s and I'm sure I did not hit the limit. I retested it when the controller got colder AND as did the battery (no that much of a sag at cold batt? That would also make sense) - problem solved. Anyway to make it clear, I will set the LVCs to 40V and give it a spin, maybe tomorrow. Or... I will rise the soft LVC val to meet my working voltage and will check it out tonight (-;

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Re: Votol EM-100 & EM-150 controllers

Post by SilverLine » Jan 20 2020 2:36pm

Bartosh wrote:
Jan 20 2020 2:30pm
SilverLine wrote:
Jan 20 2020 11:40am
As i told, after i decreased my voltage soft cut out, my problem seems to have gone away.
Nice to hear. My initial settings were about 51/53V at 20s and I'm sure I did not hit the limit. I retested it when the controller got colder AND as did the battery (no that much of a sag at cold batt? That would also make sense) - problem solved. Anyway to make it clear, I will set the LVCs to 40V and give it a spin, maybe tomorrow. Or... I will rise the soft LVC val to meet my working voltage and will check it out tonight (-;
keep us posted :bigthumb:

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Re: Votol EM-100 & EM-150 controllers

Post by Bartosh » Jan 20 2020 3:16pm

Miguel Angel wrote:
Jan 20 2020 11:36am
It's my first time using a votol em150s controller, I want it to work well on my 1500w 56 magnet hub motor, and how do I activate the cruise?
Can't help you with cruise, haven't used it, have a look a the wiring diagram. It's linked somewhere in this thread. The config looks ok to me. You need to describe what the problem is. What I would change: disable softstart, rate of rise/decline to 255, lower the undervoltage values. Plus your 3speed values seem limited; depending on which mode you use (check the display tab), set it to 100%. But it's just me. You didn't tell us much about your expectations.
Last edited by Bartosh on Jan 20 2020 3:47pm, edited 1 time in total.

ZERONEST   10 W

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Re: Votol EM-100 & EM-150 controllers

Post by ZERONEST » Jan 20 2020 3:44pm

Bartosh wrote:
Jan 20 2020 10:09am
Hey Zeronest, thanks for sharing. I wonder if you have the same sw version (despite the fact it's em100).

Regarding the decel lag you're describing, try to set both rate of rise and rate of decline to 255 (page1). There's a noticeable difference in motor response, but still not what we're after.

Miguel, I think you need to share some more details of your config and describe the problem better.
Thank you, I will try this, I have tried a couple of different versions but they all have the same throttle lag

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Re: Votol EM-100 & EM-150 controllers

Post by Bartosh » Jan 20 2020 3:55pm

I've been using the one linked here (new sp version, can, last link @): http://www.siaecosys.com/list/?classid=102

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