Votol EM-100 & EM-150 controllers

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Bartosh   10 W

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Re: Votol EM-100 & EM-150 controllers

Post by Bartosh » Jan 03 2020 4:23am

SilentEnduro wrote:
Jan 03 2020 3:49am
A bit update, sad to say but today I've got same issue on my old controller =(
wonder if CAN-votol might blow halls in motor....
I'm experiencing quite a similar problem now. Last night I switched to a different controller (apt) to see how it revs at 600a. But there is some hall-related magic happening. Can't make it work at the moment. The hall angle shift I had configured before would not spin the motor anymore. Nothing changed in the wiring. Will look into it later.

Edit: I mean it does not spin when I switched back to votol (old settings, old wiring).
Last edited by Bartosh on Jan 03 2020 4:39am, edited 1 time in total.

larsb   1 MW

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Re: Votol EM-100 & EM-150 controllers

Post by larsb » Jan 03 2020 4:28am

So the Votol doesn’t work anymore? Or didn’t you get it working with the APT

That probably is because wiring needs to be matched for both phases and halls and different controllers might have different color coding (it happens a lot!) and they might also define hall shift differently so tha x degrees=y degrees between two controllers.
Last edited by larsb on Jan 03 2020 4:36am, edited 1 time in total.
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Bartosh   10 W

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Re: Votol EM-100 & EM-150 controllers

Post by Bartosh » Jan 03 2020 4:33am

Yes, of course, but it simply stopped working in the previous setup (votol), so no wiring changes at all. That's why I call it magic. BTW I have an old type qs138 70h with the magnet ring and hall pcb on the side and I suspect it may be broken. I already changed the plastic ring as it came broken from the factory.

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Re: Votol EM-100 & EM-150 controllers

Post by larsb » Jan 03 2020 4:39am

That’s interesting. So how long ago was it working with the Votol? Change point for error in this case would be that controller was disconnected. Some cable or pin not connecting properly after this is a probable root cause.

No errors?
Any movement at all?

If you don’t have movement then i’d guess on throttle.
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Re: Votol EM-100 & EM-150 controllers

Post by Bartosh » Jan 03 2020 4:50am

Lars, sorry for not being precise enough. Yeah, I will check the wiring again. The votol was working until last night, but I wasn't entirely happy with the result so I thought I could play with a different controller. BTW I use votol em-150P (which is same as S, not SP, according to what QS said).

SilverLine   100 W

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Re: Votol EM-100 & EM-150 controllers

Post by SilverLine » Jan 03 2020 5:12am

Bartosh wrote:
Jan 03 2020 4:50am
Lars, sorry for not being precise enough. Yeah, I will check the wiring again. The votol was working until last night, but I wasn't entirely happy with the result so I thought I could play with a different controller. BTW I use votol em-150P (which is same as S, not SP, according to what QS said).
Did you connect +5v and gnd correct on both controllers, for the halls ?

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Re: Votol EM-100 & EM-150 controllers

Post by Bartosh » Jan 03 2020 9:45am

SilverLine wrote:
Jan 03 2020 5:12am
Did you connect +5v and gnd correct on both controllers, for the halls ?
Yes. There's no place for mistake, plug and play type of connectors but I checked.

Lars, wheel stopped at ca. 1% throttle. Sometimes didn't even move.

Sadly, right now there is nothing more to examine. I think the votol's just blown... :shock:

As I had some problems with the throttle setting and lack of power (like there was some kind of permanent soft start enabled even though it wasn't set in settings) I asked QS for a firmware update for my controller. So uploaded the bin file, the progress bar finished at 100%, I waited couple more minutes and restarted the controller. HW version in the app did not change but there were new values shown in throttle settings which means the firmware was saved. Yay! I also uploaded default settings I got from QS. Then I gently... really gently twisted the throttle and the shit happened. The motor gone crazy at max RPM (up and down, several times)... and after one very long second it blew my main 200A fuse at the battery. :cry: It does blow the fuse as soon as I turn it on.

I'm really upset folks. I asked the guy from QS three times if it was safe to upload this version of firmware to my controller (P) and which software version to use. I will try to repair/replace it under warranty, we'll see. But it is what it is.

In the meantime I'll try to make the APT work, but won't ot here.
Last edited by Bartosh on Jan 03 2020 10:08am, edited 1 time in total.

larsb   1 MW

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Re: Votol EM-100 & EM-150 controllers

Post by larsb » Jan 03 2020 9:56am

That’s bad.. feel sorry for you. Can you upload the new settings screens you got? Maybe it can point where the error is (but i doubt it).

Are phases shorted now, how functional is controller? If it blows your fuse instantly then it’s hard to test but if you remove throttle and all other connections and leave only battery, is it possible to connect to it?
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Re: Votol EM-100 & EM-150 controllers

Post by Bartosh » Jan 03 2020 10:27am

Here's the ini file I got from QS. You can open it without connecting to the controller. I just changed the softstart and motor type to v-shape. They told me to use *IO19* exe for nonCAN controller. Please don't export these settings to your controller :wink: Just saying...

I'm still waiting for an answer from QS regarding warranty before I open up the brick. There's short between B- and two of three phases, same with B+, so fets burnt. Anyway even if I repair it, I don't have a backup of prev firmware.
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EM150S-72V-QS138-200.ini
(488 Bytes) Downloaded 48 times
Last edited by Bartosh on Jan 03 2020 12:44pm, edited 1 time in total.

SilverLine   100 W

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Re: Votol EM-100 & EM-150 controllers

Post by SilverLine » Jan 03 2020 10:58am

For reference, got a cheap speedometer from Aliexpress to work on the Votol-Em150 controller
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/3299098 ... 4c4dFV5Yrw


This display has a "Hall" tab. Just connect the White "ISDN" wire from controller to this, together with vbat and gnd, and you are set.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h_KmvQAC_Ww

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SilentEnduro   1 W

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Re: Votol EM-100 & EM-150 controllers

Post by SilentEnduro » Jan 03 2020 2:55pm

Folks, my pain in ass ended))
Today I've disassembled all the wiring at bike and find out that there is no voltage on + after contactor. I'm using Chinese dc switchgear and this small piece of @#$#&! just blew my mind :twisted: (replaced with Schneider)
So when I connect controller to PC it has power thru low-current cables, and then I rotate a wheel by hand, simultaneously charging the capacitors inside controller))) I can see the RPM, cause there is no need to power controller to see it))) then capacitors have enough power to rotate a wheel for 1sec (via throttle) :lol:

For now everything works, and I hope to test CAN votol tomorrow.

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Re: Votol EM-100 & EM-150 controllers

Post by larsb » Jan 03 2020 3:09pm

Cheers! Not everyone has bad karma today then :D
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Bartosh   10 W

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Re: Votol EM-100 & EM-150 controllers

Post by Bartosh » Jan 03 2020 3:58pm

SilentEnduro wrote:
Jan 03 2020 2:55pm
For now everything works, and I hope to test CAN votol tomorrow.
Glad you got it sorted out :wink:

Speaking of bad karma... I think the root of the problem and magic behavior of my controller MAY be the hall pcb. I don't want to jinx it before I make the apt controller work as it should and test it under load but... my motor came with broken hall mount from the factory, so QS sent me a new one together with a brand new hall pcb and magnet ring (I didn't ask for it, so it was a pleasant surprise at that time, but keep reading). I replaced the whole thing to be sure. Now I just inspected this pcb and noticed a little scratch/mark on it. I'm not quite sure if this is the case, but replaced it with the old one and the motor spins quite smoothly now using a different controller (still with no load). :confused: You can see the scratch I'm taking about in the attachment. Gee...

So the conclusion for now: if I didn't upload this broken piece of firmware, my votol might still be alive and eventually ripping.
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20200103_220047-min.jpg
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SilentEnduro   1 W

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Re: Votol EM-100 & EM-150 controllers

Post by SilentEnduro » Jan 04 2020 6:33am

BTW, Judging from the halls picture, am I right that hall angle should be set to 120°?

larsb   1 MW

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Re: Votol EM-100 & EM-150 controllers

Post by larsb » Jan 04 2020 7:13am

Yes, 120 it is
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SilentEnduro   1 W

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Re: Votol EM-100 & EM-150 controllers

Post by SilentEnduro » Jan 04 2020 7:29am

Yea, checked specs for 138.... Seems i'm really tired with this votol)))
however my 138 has 60* =)

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Re: Votol EM-100 & EM-150 controllers

Post by larsb » Jan 04 2020 9:06am

The pcb is 120 degrees and I’d say that 60deg spacinc is impossible, and not good.

The benefit of (industry standard) 120 degree spacing is that 111 or 000 is not used in the hall sequence. dead or shorted halls show instantly as a fault. If you have this sequence then you have a hall malfunction.

You could check if there’s a hall that doesn’t switch.
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Re: Votol EM-100 & EM-150 controllers

Post by Bartosh » Jan 04 2020 9:36am

It may be a hall angle shift? So 60 as constant (preconfigured) + 60 deg of shift. I think I've seen it somewhere in the software. Don't recall which version.

Edit: got it, some old binary, without connecting.

Edit2: it was 60 in my case also, when the controller was alive.
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larsb   1 MW

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Re: Votol EM-100 & EM-150 controllers

Post by larsb » Jan 04 2020 9:45am

hall shift angle and hall spacing angle are two different things.

Hall spacing is either 60 or 120,QS motor has 120 spacing.
Hall shift can be whatever value as it's related to the halls installation position
Last edited by larsb on Jan 04 2020 12:14pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Votol EM-100 & EM-150 controllers

Post by Bartosh » Jan 04 2020 9:49am

Lars, what's the shift value in your config? So there's only offset to configure in the app. 1st option seems disabled and set to 120 as it should?

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Re: Votol EM-100 & EM-150 controllers

Post by larsb » Jan 04 2020 10:26am

It's 60
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SilentEnduro   1 W

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Re: Votol EM-100 & EM-150 controllers

Post by SilentEnduro » Jan 05 2020 9:31am

Tried to replace my regular Votol EM-150 with Votol EM-150 SP (CAN version) to see is there any difference.
My old one pulls down the power when you are trying to go up to really long or hard hill...

https://youtu.be/_Q-1PBQI7Bk

First video in English =)

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Re: Votol EM-100 & EM-150 controllers

Post by larsb » Jan 05 2020 10:39am

Interesting. So what temperature is heatsink when it pulls down power? Could it be improved by watercooling or isn't it so warm? i've seen watercooling blocks for the votol on Taobao.

What wheels and reduction ratio do you use?
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Re: Votol EM-100 & EM-150 controllers

Post by SilverLine » Jan 05 2020 10:55am

You are sure, its not your battery ?? Driving in the woods like you do, put lots of load on the battery. And in cold weather, batteries is not performing very well. Do you know how much voltage sag you have ?? What batteries are you using ?

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SilentEnduro   1 W

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Re: Votol EM-100 & EM-150 controllers

Post by SilentEnduro » Jan 05 2020 12:04pm

larsb wrote:
Jan 05 2020 10:39am
Interesting. So what temperature is heatsink when it pulls down power? Could it be improved by watercooling or isn't it so warm? i've seen watercooling blocks for the votol on Taobao.

What wheels and reduction ratio do you use?
It seems that it might be not overheating, cause can-votol reduce the power even if it's not hot.
I'm using 18" and 1:7.3 reduction ratio.
SilverLine wrote:
Jan 05 2020 10:55am
You are sure, its not your battery ?? Driving in the woods like you do, put lots of load on the battery. And in cold weather, batteries is not performing very well. Do you know how much voltage sag you have ?? What batteries are you using ?
I'm sure that it's not a battery, the same issue at KTM with different battery.
Voltage sag is about few volts on full throttle.

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