true cost?

General Discussion about electric vehicles.
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gammy13   10 µW

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true cost?

Post by gammy13 » Dec 28 2019 1:48am

I am very interested in full size electric vehicles, but it seems like all the "true cost" comparisons seem a little out of whack for me (meaning keeping the car for 10 years, etc..). So with that being said i have never paid over 21K for a vehicle. Last two vehicles were honda element brand new at 21K and brand new honda accord at 21K. The vehicle would need to be somewhat similar (meaning something like a tesla 3 size or similar). Seeing a car payment of 350 vs. 650 it is tough to imagine that it is "saving money". So my question is.....assuming

12-15K miles per year

20K gas vehicle

5 year ownershipusps trackingshowbox


at what price point does it actually "even out"? Meaning it would be more cost effective to purchase an EV. thanks in advance
Last edited by gammy13 on Dec 30 2019 12:41am, edited 1 time in total.

john61ct   100 MW

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Re: true cost?

Post by john61ct » Dec 28 2019 2:08am

If saving money is the goal, #1 rule is, only buy what you can afford, as in paying cash.

If there are other higher priorities, then forget about trying to "justify" it with abstract economic BS, just get what you want and enjoy the ride.

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jonescg   1.21 GW

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Re: true cost?

Post by jonescg » Dec 28 2019 7:21am

A lot of people ask "When will it pay for itself?" which is a silly question - I have never seen a car reach into it's pocket and pull out it's wallet and buy itself from the showroom floor.

But what we can ask, is "At what point will I have spent as much money on either car?" And for an electric car vs petrol car, you're looking at about 8 years of 14,000 km per year. By year 8, you've spent as much money on either car, but from this point on, the EV is costing you less than the gasser.

Borrowing money to buy a car is the least desirable place to be, but it can work if finance is cheap enough. Most personal loans are around 5-7% p.a. nowadays.

Grantmac   10 kW

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Re: true cost?

Post by Grantmac » Dec 28 2019 1:01pm

I buy 10-15 year old cars for ~$5000 and keep them 5 years then sell for ~$3000. I do no major maintenance beyond timing belts. I don't carry collision insurance since that will be the cost of the car in 5 years and if I use it for an at-fault accident my rates will double.

Its going to be a long time before an EV makes any monetary sense for me. The exception is an ebike for commuting which has paid for itself in 6 months.

cricketo   10 kW

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Re: true cost?

Post by cricketo » Dec 29 2019 12:09am

john61ct wrote:
Dec 28 2019 2:08am
If saving money is the goal, #1 rule is, only buy what you can afford, as in paying cash.

If there are other higher priorities, then forget about trying to "justify" it with abstract economic BS, just get what you want and enjoy the ride.
:bigthumb:

cricketo   10 kW

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Re: true cost?

Post by cricketo » Dec 29 2019 12:10am

jonescg wrote:
Dec 28 2019 7:21am
A lot of people ask "When will it pay for itself?" which is a silly question - I have never seen a car reach into it's pocket and pull out it's wallet and buy itself from the showroom floor.
Not yet, but that's one of the Tesla's promises when you add your vehicle to the pool of their autonomous taxis.

Grantmac   10 kW

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Re: true cost?

Post by Grantmac » Dec 29 2019 1:40am

cricketo wrote:
Dec 29 2019 12:10am
jonescg wrote:
Dec 28 2019 7:21am
A lot of people ask "When will it pay for itself?" which is a silly question - I have never seen a car reach into it's pocket and pull out it's wallet and buy itself from the showroom floor.
Not yet, but that's one of the Tesla's promises when you add your vehicle to the pool of their autonomous taxis.
Let's be realistic: that's about 2-3 car buying cycles away for the people buying Teslas. Plus who's insurance is going to cover it when operating under the direction of an algorithm?

cricketo   10 kW

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Re: true cost?

Post by cricketo » Dec 29 2019 1:22pm

Grantmac wrote:
Dec 29 2019 1:40am
Let's be realistic: that's about 2-3 car buying cycles away for the people buying Teslas. Plus who's insurance is going to cover it when operating under the direction of an algorithm?
I am not sure why your claim is realistic. There are many things that will go into making that a reality, but there is no indication it will be so far away. One thing I suspect though, once it starts happening, there may be more people willing to do it than there is demand. As always with honey, whoever gets there first will benefit the most. https://www.tesla.com/insurance

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Dauntless   100 GW

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Re: true cost?

Post by Dauntless » Dec 30 2019 11:35pm

I think the OP is getting right to the most important issue at the moment. It's mass market time, that puts cost analysis on top.

When I first started with those Curries, I made how many 6 mile round trippers during $5/gallon? How many times did I not rent a car with mine in the shop? The cheap bike actually paid for itself pretty quick, but was not fun to ride.

The car replacement types want as close a total replacement as they can get; that's not really available but a lot of people don't make the really long trips, etc., So it's fine.

There will always be people who can buy the Stealth and not ride much, but that's never a big market. I remember telling people the beauty of the early Tesla was the rich kids would pay for all the R&D to develop the bugs out: I remember George Clooney had a $100k Tesla and that half car thingee in the same price range. I remember him bellyaching because the Tesla kept quitting on him.

The time to see that as a good thing is over. Most people aren't in a position to get out of justifying it, now we need to play to them.
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st35326   100 W

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Re: true cost?

Post by st35326 » Dec 31 2019 12:16am

Grantmac wrote:
Dec 29 2019 1:40am
cricketo wrote:
Dec 29 2019 12:10am
jonescg wrote:
Dec 28 2019 7:21am
A lot of people ask "When will it pay for itself?" which is a silly question - I have never seen a car reach into it's pocket and pull out it's wallet and buy itself from the showroom floor.
Not yet, but that's one of the Tesla's promises when you add your vehicle to the pool of their autonomous taxis.
Let's be realistic: that's about 2-3 car buying cycles away for the people buying Teslas. Plus who's insurance is going to cover it when operating under the direction of an algorithm?
It's A.I. not an Algorithm, very different things. Also, Tesla currently insures both of my Autopilot/FSD cars, cheaper that USAA and Geico.

https://www.tesla.com/insurance

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wturber   10 MW

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Re: true cost?

Post by wturber » Jan 06 2020 11:27pm

john61ct wrote:
Dec 28 2019 2:08am
If saving money is the goal, #1 rule is, only buy what you can afford, as in paying cash.

If there are other higher priorities, then forget about trying to "justify" it with abstract economic BS, just get what you want and enjoy the ride.
I agree 100% with both main points and would add that this is why I've personally never bought a new car and have never paid over $10k for a car. I've also not made a car payment since (I think) 1982.

My general rule is, "Don't buy new if economy is your main goal." That said, with government subsidies on electrics and/or hybrids, there are occasional exceptions to that rule. But you have to do the math for those particular situations.
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markz   100 GW

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Re: true cost?

Post by markz » Jan 14 2020 5:26pm

Great points made.

Maybe what society has to do is look at their driving behaviour, the husband dont need no Ford F150 and the wifey dont need no Toyota 4Runner as a daily commuter to the cubical. Gas gussling behemoths, getting no gas mileage at all.

Look at Europe, they drive small fuel efficient vehicles.
Take good care of the vehicle and they will last a long time.

I like the Hyundai Elantra when I rented that, also liked the Nissan Note. Hyundai was getting 10km/L (30mpg) while the Note was a bit better. Getting into the 1.9L engines, like the small Suzuki's would benefit longer distances for gas volume.

I have been seriously pondering the early 2000 VW tdi engines, like the Jetta or Passat. I'd drive it to the ground, then rebuild it but stuff it in a Jeep Cherokee or a Suzuki Sidekick/Tracker/Samurai for some awesome wheeling capabilities.

markz   100 GW

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Re: true cost?

Post by markz » Jan 14 2020 5:31pm

Save lots of money being able to spin wrenches on your own vehicle.
Buying older late model vehicles means lots of available used parts.

That is an attraction some owners would have, but not all.

Grantmac   10 kW

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Re: true cost?

Post by Grantmac » Jan 14 2020 7:54pm

I drove a TDI for 150,000miles until it was written off. If they made an AWD TDI Golf wagon I'd be driving one still.
Mine only needed regular maintenance as most do under a half million miles.

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Dauntless   100 GW

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Re: true cost?

Post by Dauntless » Jan 19 2020 4:00pm

Any sufficiently advanced technology is INDISTINGUISHABLE FROM MAGIC!
- Arthur C. Clarke

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