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Re: Taycan video with some useful information

Posted: Sep 27 2019 3:15am
by TheBeastie
While there are tons of reviews now on YouTube it's nice to be able to watch a 4k-resolution video of the Porsche Taycan actually being produced in the factory.

While there is a lot of 4k content out there on YouTube if you looking for another thing to test your fancy new 4k smart TV on you can watch a Porsche EV being built.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=41nazRGnXoQ


I found watching this video weirdly interesting/entertaining, the high level of automation in the video make it almost seem like with all the robotics that the most useful thing the humans can do is wear white gloves and hand-feel the car all over for any visual/feelable imperfections in the car.

Re: Taycan video with some useful information

Posted: Sep 27 2019 9:50am
by MorbidlyObeseKoala
That was interesting to watch. The paint on the body was probably the most captivating for me because of how the booth eliminated so much overspray. The sleeves on the arms didn't look to have any paint on them.

I would say the humans had significant work in the wiring and cable running section but you are right, all of those other steps used to be human jobs and now they massage the car with gloves after the robots do the hard parts.

Another thing I kept thinking was how many people they must have in their automation department or maintenance department. All those arms have to be serviced eventually.

Re: Taycan video with some useful information

Posted: Sep 27 2019 11:50am
by Toorbough ULL-Zeveigh
Punx0r wrote:
Sep 25 2019 2:42pm
Not sure on the provenance of this figure, but 800V system is supposed to save 4kg
ACH DU FREAKIN' LIEBER GOTT IM HIMMEL AUGUSTINE!
or about the same if you left off the body paint.
MorbidlyObeseKoala wrote:
Sep 27 2019 9:50am
The paint on the body was probably the most captivating for me because of how the booth eliminated so much overspray.
if two taycans two hairy gnus can
two caribou can two kangaroos can even cuckoos can
then my friend so can you

Re: Taycan video with some useful information

Posted: Oct 05 2019 3:15pm
by Cephalotus
Ohbse wrote:
Sep 19 2019 3:37am
It's possible there are thermal advantages from the higher voltage relative to other inverter tech available to Porsche but it can't be assumed.. generally higher voltage capable silicon has a proportional increase in resistance. There are 'sweet spots' where system efficiency peaks and perhaps 800v won out, but I don't think it could be by enough to justify all the extra development and components required. I think it was done primarily for marketing wank.
It is done for quicker DC charging.

CCS is limited to 500A and you need to actively cool cables and contacts at 500A.

500A at 400V gives you 200kW maximum, 500A at 800V gives you 400kW maximum

Re: Taycan video with some useful information

Posted: Oct 07 2019 1:19am
by sleepy_tired
For everyone that was anticipating German engineering dominance to smash the upstart Tesla, Taycan is a big disappointment - however measured on its own merits without comparisons it's very impressive for a first attempt.
It's typical Porsche silliness. Why copy successful designs when you can make it 300% more complicated and help make dealerships rich repairing and supporting such a complicated beast?

The initial price tag is only a small part of what makes their cars unaffordable for most people.
I am surprised that the Taycan isnt faster to 100km/h with that lower gearing....
......but maybe it because of its 5100lb weight :shock:
We are getting to the point were the real limitations for acceleration is going to be suspension setup and tire compound. How much anti-squat is built into the suspension and how 'sticky' the tires are. Drag cars are setup with enough anti-squat that they actually raise up in the rear under acceleration, despite the massive weight transfer to the rear under acceleration. Too much anti-squat, however, and other suspension characteristics are compromised. Stuff like road handling and comfort.

Increasing the weight can be compensated for by increasing the torque. Increasing the weight increases the pressure of the tires on the pavement, which increases traction, which then can be used to offsets the increased effort to motivate the car forward.

Which means that pretty soon 0-60 times will be irrelevant. For high-end cars the deciding factor on acceleration is going to be just tire compound and road surface. Advanced traction control is going to be needed to keep the tires right on the edge of adhesion to maximize acceleration since the motor will be able to easily exceed traction limits at will.


I really don't understand the point of having the two speed transmission, personally.

Looking at the motor design and the size of it compared to the 2-speed transmission it seems like if you wanted to double the torque... why not just put in 4 motors instead of 2?

Image

I mean just look at that silly mess.

You have the motor, the inverter, the clutch pack, the double set of gears, the limited slip differential and all that complicated mess...

If you want 4wd why not just do 4 motors? You get the same double-the-torque. It's not going to use up any more energy. And you dramatically cut down on the unique part count by a massive amount.

The car is going to require extremely sophisticated traction control to reach it's performance limits, doesn't the limited slip differential just get in the way? I know that motors weigh a lot, but I can't imagine they are that much heavier then that transmission. As long as the weight is positioned correctly in the chassis it's not going to have negative impact on handling or acceleration. A slight reduction in range, maybe.

Re: Taycan video with some useful information

Posted: Oct 07 2019 4:11pm
by MitchJi
We are getting to the point were the real limitations for acceleration is going to be suspension setup and tire compound. How much anti-squat is built into the suspension and how 'sticky' the tires are. Drag cars are setup with enough anti-squat that they actually raise up in the rear under acceleration, despite the massive weight transfer to the rear under acceleration. Too much anti-squat, however, and other suspension characteristics are compromised. Stuff like road handling and comfort.

Or the Tesla second generation Roadster with the SpaceX thrusters.

Re: Taycan video with some useful information

Posted: Oct 07 2019 5:08pm
by Hillhater
Im no EV drive train/system expert, but my guess is that it is all a compromise of weight/motor design/ speed/acceleration , etc
For good acceleration, high torque is needed, which could be either from bigger or multiple motors, ...or higher gearing ratio. Either of those adds weight, but since all EV motors seem to need reduction transmissions, adding an extra gear ratio , is probably simpler, lighter, less complex or costly, than a dual motor/ transmission system.
Also you have to consider the max speed requirement, which requires either a lower gear ratio, or a very high motor rpm if a single ratio is used, together with motor rpm/efficiency factors. Again, the dual gear ratios could be used to optimise this without complicating motor/inverter system design.

Re: Taycan video with some useful information

Posted: Oct 18 2019 12:24pm
by sleepy_tired
I betcha that next generation Taycan (or whatever Porsche replaces it with) won't have the second gear.

Re: Taycan video with some useful information

Posted: Oct 18 2019 11:49pm
by st35326
sleepy_tired wrote:
Oct 18 2019 12:24pm
I betcha that next generation Taycan (or whatever Porsche replaces it with) won't have the second gear.
I believe that will end up being correct.

Re: Taycan video with some useful information

Posted: Oct 30 2019 8:47am
by TheBeastie
So here it is!
Porsche Taycan Turbo S vs Tesla Model S: DRAG RACE :lol:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F28i1D1OJ5o

Re: Taycan video with some useful information

Posted: Oct 30 2019 11:03am
by Toorbough ULL-Zeveigh
looks like top geer's production budget is covered for the year.

Re: Taycan video with some useful information

Posted: Nov 19 2019 7:29pm
by jonescg
Article from Charged EVs about why the Taycan went with 800 V - it all comes down to the charging:
https://chargedevs.com/newswire/why-did ... taycan-ev/

Re: Taycan video with some useful information

Posted: Jan 11 2020 5:30pm
by LSBW
I really liked this small tidbit of info in the battery and charging section.

(for example, 50 kW maximum charging doesn’t require any preconditioning).

33.5 kWh battery in my 2017 FFE refuses to take any decent amps at my local DCFC, before it reaches temp of 0C, and sometimes, if it was cold overnight, takes its sweet time to warm up.
Easily 30 minutes, or even more, if it was -20C the night before.

Re: Taycan video with some useful information

Posted: Jan 11 2020 6:37pm
by spinningmagnets
The 2-speed transmission was put on the rear axles to reduce the amps drawn at hard acceleration. The front motor on the Taycan is a direct-drive single-speed reduction.

The Euro 800V charging standard was developed by a loose-knit group. The Global conglomerate Fiat-Chrysler-Automobili (FCA) owns both Ferrari and Maserati. The 800V cars now include

Porsche Taycan
Koenigegg Regera
Maserati Alfieri
Aston Martin Valhalla
Aston Martin Rapide E
Lotus Evija
Pininfarina Battista
Audi PB18 E-Tron
Nio EP9

https://www.electricbike.com/14-expensi ... orts-cars/

Image

Re: Taycan video with some useful information

Posted: Jan 14 2020 5:10pm
by markz
All fine and dandy, fancy dancy cars, super cars, what have you. Not my cup of tea, because I dont got the cash and the tree hugging, save the whales aspect was never my thing, though saving money is.

The look of some of the cars are ugly imo, but free open market to each their own.

As long as we can have access to the batteries for our own needs then even better.
spinningmagnets wrote:
Jan 11 2020 6:37pm
800V cars now include

Re: Taycan video with some useful information

Posted: Jan 15 2020 12:36am
by st35326