Wind and Solar vs Coal, Gasoline, Nuclear

General Discussion about electric vehicles.
Punx0r   100 GW

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Re: Wind and Solar vs Coal, Gasoline, Nuclear

Post by Punx0r » Nov 03 2019 1:07pm

European coal plants to lose over 6 billion euros in 2019 as they are undercut by cheaper gas and renewables:

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... -this-year

Note the comment about Poland being an exception due to generous government subsidies.

Hillhater   100 GW

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Re: Wind and Solar vs Coal, Gasoline, Nuclear

Post by Hillhater » Nov 03 2019 4:55pm

Not really due to the actual cost of generating power..
.. more political manipulation of the market.
....and certainly not a major boost for renewables,. Mostly a benefit to Gas generators !
And i bet it does nothing to reduce the cost of electricity.
.....EU carbon permits have surged fivefold since 2017. That has driven up the cost of burning coal. At the same time, benchmark gas contracts in the Netherlands are trading 27% below their 10-year seasonal average, encouraging utilities to use that fuel instead......
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jonescg   1.21 GW

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Re: Wind and Solar vs Coal, Gasoline, Nuclear

Post by jonescg » Nov 06 2019 7:58pm

https://reneweconomy.com.au/australias- ... ime-17935/

And the roasts still roasted, the sky did not fall in, and Whyalla is still on the map.

Great to see that Wivenhoe power station is finally being used for what it was made for, after 40 odd years. Pumping water 78 m uphill when solar is abundant and turning the taps on in the evening.

Hillhater   100 GW

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Re: Wind and Solar vs Coal, Gasoline, Nuclear

Post by Hillhater » Nov 06 2019 11:03pm

Ahh ! they are a inventive bunch over on RE...
Australia’s main grid reaches 50 per cent renewables for first time
......Tell ‘em they’r dreamin’
Unfortunately, the 24% of ROOF TOP Solar isnt part of grid supply... actually its not even 24 % come to that !
No body has actual data for RT Solar,..its all “estimated” based on panel sales and several adjustment factors.
With no allowance for disused, damaged, underperforming, installations.
( a complex , but highly inaccurate method) so their 24% is a “maximum Estimate”
And of course the vast majority of RT Solar is self consumed with minor quantities getting back to the supply line. ..i am reliably informed that none gets beyond the local Sub stn to enter the actual “grid”
So, in reality, its unlikely the wind/solar contribution to the grid exceeded 30% at any point
Actual grid demand (@11:50)..18.5 MW
Fossil sources.... 12.1 MW
RE Utilities.... 6.4 MW
RT Solar ........ 5.7 MW (estimated)

Just to add a little reality to their deamfest..
.. it is only a week or so since S Australia ( RE’s “chosen one/Golden balls” state for renewables ), had to turn on their banks (9) of diesel powered utility generators to prevent shortages when wind generatoin dropped to nothing after sunset, and their gas burners were already maxed out together with maximum imports from joining states !
.. yep, that almost stopped the roast !
Reliable stuff this RE power...cant wait to see how this pans out as less and less coal generation is available . :roll:
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Cephalotus   10 kW

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Re: Wind and Solar vs Coal, Gasoline, Nuclear

Post by Cephalotus » Nov 08 2019 11:53am

Cost-efficient and Climate-friendly Transformation Strategies for the German Energy System up to 2050

"...According to the calculations by the Jülich scientists, the additional costs of transforming the energy system for the 80 % target in 2050 will be around 1.1 % of the expected GDP. For the ambitious target of a 95 % reduction, the share of the costs is 2.8 %. The additional annual costs are approximately equal to the current expenditure on energy imports, which was around 1.9 % of GDP in 2018. “The transformation of the German energy sector brings with it considerable investment costs. However, the cost of this transformation can be planned and managed, while the cost of adapting to climate change after the fact is uncertain and could be many times higher,” comments Robinius..."

https://www.fz-juelich.de/SharedDocs/Pr ... study.html

Study (in German):
https://www.fz-juelich.de/iek/iek-3/EN/ ... _node.html

sendler2112   100 kW

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Re: Wind and Solar vs Coal, Gasoline, Nuclear

Post by sendler2112 » Nov 08 2019 1:26pm

Very interesting. Let us know if an English version of the full report becomes available.

sendler2112   100 kW

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Re: Wind and Solar vs Coal, Gasoline, Nuclear

Post by sendler2112 » Nov 09 2019 3:31pm

China is building. They were dismayed to find that there economy was only growing at a 6% annual rate which was well short of the last few years. Only 6%/ year. That is a doubling of the economy every 12 years! Which is generally a doubling of material throughput every 12 years. And generally a doubling of energy consumption every 12 years.
.
https://www.carbonbrief.org/guest-post- ... lf-of-2019
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Embodied energy in new construction.
.
"Power-sector emissions, which had driven the rebound in overall emissions since 2017, flattened off. However, there was a surge in real estate and infrastructure construction that saw emissions from steel and cement expand rapidly."
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There are limits to growth on a finite planet.
.

sendler2112   100 kW

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Re: Wind and Solar vs Coal, Gasoline, Nuclear

Post by sendler2112 » Nov 10 2019 8:33am

"How do we keep the lights on, avoid revolution and turmoil, keep children in school and people in work, yet still manage to fundamentally transform the human presence on planet Earth before ‘business as usual’ leads to run-away climate change, a drastically impoverished biosphere, and the early demise of our species?
Metaphorically speaking we are challenged to redesign the plane we are on in mid-flight. How do we keep the basic needs met while we are preparing and experimenting with the kind of transformational change that will make ‘business as usual’ obsolete and offer a qualitatively different alternative?"
.
https://medium.com/age-of-awareness/why ... 9a2dc5bac1
.

billvon   100 MW

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Re: Wind and Solar vs Coal, Gasoline, Nuclear

Post by billvon » Nov 10 2019 4:05pm

sendler2112 wrote:
Nov 10 2019 8:33am
Metaphorically speaking we are challenged to redesign the plane we are on in mid-flight.
Agreed that that's a hard problem - but also keep in mind that we've been doing that since industrialization began 150 years ago.

I mean, change from horses to trains? Think of all the stablehands, tack manufacturers, farmers, breeders, sanitation workers, farriers, blacksmiths, grooms, trainers and veterinarians who would be put out of work! It would be a catastrophe. (And it WAS a catastrophe for some people.) But we managed.

Likewise, the transition from trains to cars and trucks. And the transition from ships to airplanes. And from pony express to telegraph to telephone to internet. None of them were easy, and the transition to low-carbon energy will be even harder. But the _process_ of disruptive change is something we've been engaged in for the past 150 years.
--bill von

sendler2112   100 kW

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Re: Wind and Solar vs Coal, Gasoline, Nuclear

Post by sendler2112 » Nov 10 2019 9:19pm

We are rapidly approaching not only energy constraints due to the saturation of available sinks for the waste. But also physical resource supply constraints of all types. Which will very shortly begin to place hard limits on growth. Which will prevent even just the interest on the massive world debt from being repaid. Which will start cascading defaults (already happening. Greece, Spain, Iraq, Lebanon, Yemen, Venezuela, Chile, Bolivia, most of Africa). We will need a whole new way when this high flying plane starts to come back down. And be proactive now to try to create a softer landing.
.
The action needed goes well beyond the New Deal/ WWII build up/ Marshal plan scale of commitment and has been likened to the paradigm shift of social norms that was required to abolish slavery.

billvon   100 MW

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Re: Wind and Solar vs Coal, Gasoline, Nuclear

Post by billvon » Nov 10 2019 9:29pm

sendler2112 wrote:
Nov 10 2019 9:19pm
The action needed goes well beyond the New Deal/ WWII build up/ Marshal plan scale of commitment and has been likened to the paradigm shift of social norms that was required to abolish slavery.
Good example. Yes, the change in social norms will have to be of that level. (And of course the change of an entire economy.) But again - we've done that before.
--bill von

Cephalotus   10 kW

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Re: Wind and Solar vs Coal, Gasoline, Nuclear

Post by Cephalotus » Nov 11 2019 2:39am

sendler2112 wrote:
Nov 08 2019 1:26pm
Very interesting. Let us know if an English version of the full report becomes available.
spring 2020

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