Nucular electronics - complete kit for ev! [beta]

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Re: Nucular electronics - complete kit for ev! [beta]

Post by Quokka » Jan 14 2020 8:59am

Vassily, recieved my 24F controlers. They are amazingly small and fit in the same shield as the adaptto's did on my qulbix. Great work.
Am installing them now in place of MAXE adaptto's after a long break from ebiking (cause thay were all dead) and would like to run a similiar variable regen (simple thumb throttle) can this be achieved with the 24F?
Qulbix Q76R+ QS205+MaxE

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Re: Nucular electronics - complete kit for ev! [beta]

Post by VasiliSk » Jan 14 2020 10:32am

ElectricGod Sorry i may be missed question. 12F and 24F have same control board, check schematic, only difference is PWM connector got wider (v2.5)

Quokka Thanks, you can connect variable brake same way as throttle, use display BRK port or controller BR port

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Re: Nucular electronics - complete kit for ev! [beta]

Post by ElectricGod » Jan 16 2020 1:51am

VasiliSk wrote:
Jan 14 2020 10:32am
ElectricGod Sorry i may be missed question. 12F and 24F have same control board, check schematic, only difference is PWM connector got wider (v2.5)

Quokka Thanks, you can connect variable brake same way as throttle, use display BRK port or controller BR port
Thank you...that was my guess.
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Re: Nucular electronics - complete kit for ev! [beta]

Post by cheeko » Jan 16 2020 2:48am

VasiliSK

Whats the progress with the BMS?

Cheers
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Re: Nucular electronics - complete kit for ev! [beta]

Post by VasiliSk » Jan 16 2020 3:08am

No much, been working on new 6F version. after launch will switch to bms

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Re: Nucular electronics - complete kit for ev! [beta]

Post by cheeko » Jan 16 2020 3:23am

Thats Better then no news :)
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Re: Nucular electronics - complete kit for ev! [beta]

Post by csc » Jan 16 2020 8:53am

One year and a half with no issue

With 2 x 12F there's torque for sure. Waiting for the 24F on rear wheel to carry... maybe a mobilhome ?!!

https://youtu.be/KioDNWrlIoI

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Re: Nucular electronics - complete kit for ev! [beta]

Post by ElectricGod » Jan 16 2020 6:31pm

VasiliSk wrote:
Jan 16 2020 3:08am
No much, been working on new 6F version. after launch will switch to bms
Will the new 6 fet be designed like the 12 and 24 fet with daughter boards?
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Re: Nucular electronics - complete kit for ev! [beta]

Post by Merlin » Jan 16 2020 7:00pm

i have "maybe" something for our wishlist.

in short: a power limit option for each mode.

we all know how nice is the first miles with a fresh battery. and we all know how it sucks when your on 30% Battery left.
you miss some couple KW of Power because your Battery voltage drops 15/16v.

if you had the option like on the old cycle analyst setting a power limit you could open the amps in all modes fully and
only limit your modes to power. Voltage drops, power stay same from first to last mile your bike feels all the time same.

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Re: Nucular electronics - complete kit for ev! [beta]

Post by john61ct » Jan 17 2020 2:36pm

Since OP stated no CA is needed, I assumed that was already an option.

If I only want to buy controllers that are compatible with CAv3, would these qualify?

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Re: Nucular electronics - complete kit for ev! [beta]

Post by ElectricGod » Jan 17 2020 2:47pm

john61ct wrote:
Jan 17 2020 2:36pm
Since OP stated no CA is needed, I assumed that was already an option.

If I only want to buy controllers that are compatible with CAv3, would these qualify?
The CA is OLD tech. IMHO, it needs a refresh.
At least a higher def color display that is bigger.
They have not seen new development in many years.
They will work with an external shunt on anything.

There is no CA connector, which is what you are really asking about. There's no point. You won't need a CA in any way. 100% of the functionality of a CA is built into the controller and LCD and done far better!
This is just one of the screen layouts you can select.

Image
Last edited by ElectricGod on Jan 17 2020 4:24pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Nucular electronics - complete kit for ev! [beta]

Post by j bjork » Jan 17 2020 3:42pm

Merlin wrote:
Jan 16 2020 7:00pm
i have "maybe" something for our wishlist.

in short: a power limit option for each mode.

we all know how nice is the first miles with a fresh battery. and we all know how it sucks when your on 30% Battery left.
you miss some couple KW of Power because your Battery voltage drops 15/16v.

if you had the option like on the old cycle analyst setting a power limit you could open the amps in all modes fully and
only limit your modes to power. Voltage drops, power stay same from first to last mile your bike feels all the time same.
I don´t really get it, you want to limit the power so it sucks all the time instead of just when you are running out of battery?

I think there are a function already to keep the speed the same with field weakening when the voltage drops.

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Re: Nucular electronics - complete kit for ev! [beta]

Post by Merlin » Jan 17 2020 3:57pm

i dont really need "max peaks power"

fully 20s = 79v x 150 = 11,8kw (including vdrop)
30% 20s = 64v x 150 = 9,6kw (including vdrop)

this difference you notice pretty good.

if you limit your ride to 9.5KW you have not the feeling of losing power =)
iam talkin about power...not speed.

got it? :mrgreen:

edit:

btw. flux weaken suffers the same on lower voltage.
if your bike runs 100kph on fresh battery with flux it will hit only 90 on lower battery(voltage)

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Re: Nucular electronics - complete kit for ev! [beta]

Post by ElectricGod » Jan 17 2020 4:29pm

Merlin wrote:
Jan 17 2020 3:57pm
i dont really need "max peaks power"

fully 20s = 79v x 150 = 11,8kw (including vdrop)
30% 20s = 64v x 150 = 9,6kw (including vdrop)

this difference you notice pretty good.

if you limit your ride to 9.5KW you have not the feeling of losing power =)
iam talkin about power...not speed.

got it? :mrgreen:

edit:

btw. flux weaken suffers the same on lower voltage.
if your bike runs 100kph on fresh battery with flux it will hit only 90 on lower battery(voltage)
I'm with Bjork on this one. I'd rather have full power when I can have it.
Maybe what you should do is implement the 3 speed option.
Make one of the switch settings be that 9.6kw so you get the same ride quality at all battery charge levels.
Make another switch setting where you get 11.8kw.
Make another into limp mode where you can still ride, but battery usage is pretty low.
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Re: Nucular electronics - complete kit for ev! [beta]

Post by j bjork » Jan 17 2020 4:32pm

Ok, I understand.
What I meant with flux is no flux fully charged. But when voltage drops you compensate with flux.
I think that is available. But as you say, that is only to keep the speed, not the power.

I just run full power, and limit with the throttle 8)

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Re: Nucular electronics - complete kit for ev! [beta]

Post by Merlin » Jan 17 2020 4:45pm

ElectricGod wrote:
Jan 17 2020 4:29pm

Maybe what you should do is implement the 3 speed option.
Make one of the switch settings be that 9.6kw so you get the same ride quality at all battery charge levels.
Make another switch setting where you get 11.8kw.
interessting. how you setup 9.6kw/11.8kw? :D

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Re: Nucular electronics - complete kit for ev! [beta]

Post by ElectricGod » Jan 17 2020 8:36pm

Merlin wrote:
Jan 17 2020 4:45pm
ElectricGod wrote:
Jan 17 2020 4:29pm

Maybe what you should do is implement the 3 speed option.
Make one of the switch settings be that 9.6kw so you get the same ride quality at all battery charge levels.
Make another switch setting where you get 11.8kw.
interessting. how you setup 9.6kw/11.8kw? :D
Look at the schematic. It shows you the connections to use for 3 speeds. The rest is settings in the controller.
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Re: Nucular electronics - complete kit for ev! [beta]

Post by Merlin » Jan 17 2020 8:47pm

Show me where you can setup a power level and not amps :wink:
It's not the button question.

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Re: Nucular electronics - complete kit for ev! [beta]

Post by ElectricGod » Jan 18 2020 1:52am

Merlin wrote:
Jan 17 2020 8:47pm
Show me where you can setup a power level and not amps :wink:
It's not the button question.
You have options for different phase amps and motor speeds. I forget what the exact section in the config is, but I thought it was pretty obvious once I was looking at it. They are like 3 profiles...A,B and C or something...lol...that's not it exactly...I'd have to go look. I know that's not super helpful, but it was a while ago that I last set up this option last and have since forgotten the specifics.
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Re: Nucular electronics - complete kit for ev! [beta]

Post by larsb » Jan 18 2020 2:26am

What your butt feels is torque response, right? And this is related to available torque (current) and this is related to the drive voltage which cannot (ultimately) be kept constant without rpm limiting.

I can’t see what a constant x kw setting would give?
What did the CA function do that isn’t already done in a torque throttle controller?
Last edited by larsb on Jan 18 2020 9:12am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Nucular electronics - complete kit for ev! [beta]

Post by PITMIX » Jan 18 2020 8:35am

Merlin, I'm not sure what you want. Personally I agree with the opinion of Electricgod. On speed 1 you can choose the battery and phase intensity as an ECO mode. You can choose the other 2 speeds with higher battery intensities and phases. Isn't that enough to do what you want?
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Re: Nucular electronics - complete kit for ev! [beta]

Post by john61ct » Jan 18 2020 11:17am

Isn't Nucular a true FOC controller? aka flux-vector control

Correct me if I'm wrong but my understanding is that means not just manipulating gross current levels to influence torque, as with the CA, maybe similar to "sinusoidal commutation" controllers?

But much more precise control based on monitoring of current sensors internal to the motor,

and powerful CPUs to process the signal data, predicting the rotor angles real-time.

If this is a reasonable description, then all such FOC controllers perform this functionality better than the CAv3 can?

But the issue here is that control based on **power**, watts as opposed to amps, simply is not useful?

Just trying to grok the fundamentals here, appreciate the feedback.


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Re: Nucular electronics - complete kit for ev! [beta]

Post by PITMIX » Jan 18 2020 11:56am

Whether it is a real FOC or a fake when I activate the function f w I gain 10 km / h. If I understand correctly Merlin asks for a configurable Fw for each speed one two and three?
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Re: Nucular electronics - complete kit for ev! [beta]

Post by ElectricGod » Jan 18 2020 1:02pm

john61ct wrote:
Jan 18 2020 11:17am
Isn't Nucular a true FOC controller? aka flux-vector control

Correct me if I'm wrong but my understanding is that means not just manipulating gross current levels to influence torque, as with the CA, maybe similar to "sinusoidal commutation" controllers?

But much more precise control based on monitoring of current sensors internal to the motor,

and powerful CPUs to process the signal data, predicting the rotor angles real-time.

If this is a reasonable description, then all such FOC controllers perform this functionality better than the CAv3 can?

But the issue here is that control based on **power**, watts as opposed to amps, simply is not useful?

Just trying to grok the fundamentals here, appreciate the feedback.
Field weakening isn't magical.
It costs you more current to use it.
You lose motor efficiency to use FW.
I can't say for your motor and how effective FW will be for you.
The ideal motor for FW is an IPM inrunner.
You need exposed iron in the armature for it to work.
The magnets are literally in the way of using FW effectively.
This is why IPM motors are the best option for FW since the magnets are inside the iron.
My best suggestion to you is try FW on your motor under load.
I have attempted to use it on several outrunners and the RPM gains were so small as to NOT matter.
I tried it on a couple of inrunenrs and they were a bit better, but still not worth using FW for greater current usage.
I have never tried it on a hub motor, but they too lack lots of exposed iron so I don't expect much.

FOC is definitely the best motor control around since it is the most precise and controls motors the best.
However FW has nothing to do with FOC. Trapezoidal and sinusoidal controllers can also implement FW.

I'm not sure how a CA can possibly implement real FW or phase current control. The CA would need direct access to the halls and phases to do this. I just looked at the latest CA manual and it operates as I expected. There is no conceivable way it can implement field weakening or phase current control. It just doesn't have that ability. A CA can create throttle curves. Even with a 3 speed switch, it is only controlling throttle voltage. It has no way to control phase amps or FW or hall delay/advance. A CA uses a shunt in series with the battery and controller or the shunts inside the controller for detecting battery amps. This is NOT the same as phase amps or controlling phase amps.

Watts = volts X amps
Battery watts = battery voltage X battery amps
Motor watts = battery voltage x phase amps

If you look at a lot of better controllers, they have a shunt or current sensor on each phase connection. They are used to directly measure phase amps for each phase and that gives the MCU direct feedback on what the phases are seeing for current. The Nucular controllers use shunts on the battery side and some math to calculate phase amps. It's just one of several methods to get phase amps.
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Re: Nucular electronics - complete kit for ev! [beta]

Post by Merlin » Jan 18 2020 1:23pm

PITMIX wrote:
Jan 18 2020 8:35am
Merlin, I'm not sure what you want. Personally I agree with the opinion of Electricgod. On speed 1 you can choose the battery and phase intensity as an ECO mode. You can choose the other 2 speeds with higher battery intensities and phases. Isn't that enough to do what you want?
not sure how i can explain better than i did.

its not only related to max power. if you setup "S1" as your ECO Mode with 50A Battery, "S2" Daily Mode 200A, "S3" FuckAllOthers mode 350A

you have in each mode the same problem. A Fresh 100% Battery has more Power than an Empty Battery.
I see that Commuters or "Car-Drivers" dont see much difference. The "normal" guy could even use a "Speed Throttle" Bike and get used to it. (heres the place for a puking smiley) :P

But if you ride Offroad, Trial or other technical stuff it just needs some extra "attention" to compensate your weaker getting bike.

The Bike just feels different. Its an option. Nothing more.

How much of NUC users Ride Speed mode
How much of NUC users Ride Torque mode
How much use the Controller to charge the Battery
How much dont care about because they use the normal Battery charger.

NUC has features, some use them, some not. A Power limiting option would be Nice. thats it.

PITMIX wrote:
Jan 18 2020 11:56am
Whether it is a real FOC or a fake when I activate the function f w I gain 10 km / h. If I understand correctly Merlin asks for a configurable Fw for each speed one two and three?

not speeeeeeedddddd.....Limit your Modes to POWER not amps =)

NO SPEED IS HERE INVOLVED GUYS.....NO FLUX WEAKENING EITHER :lol:

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