Nucular electronics - complete kit for ev! [beta]

Place for dealers to post items for sale.
User avatar
ElectricGod   1 GW

1 GW
Posts: 3373
Joined: Nov 01 2015 5:24pm
Location: 3 OH 3

Re: Nucular electronics - complete kit for ev! [beta]

Post by ElectricGod » Jan 20 2020 8:56pm

csc wrote:
Jan 20 2020 10:05am
Hi guys

I'd like to send more juice to my rear qs273 "4000" when I start and at low speed. Bigger kick, in other words. There's a kind of software based, progressive acceleration that I'd like to turn into brutal

I have a consistant margin concerning sag and motor + 12F temp, there's some watts left

What settings would you use ? Clutch stuff ? Of course the phase and battery amps are already set at max

Sorry if the answer is above, I have to read the whole thread, as the question seems to be in discussion
I think if you already have phase and battery amps set to max, you are at the limits of the controller.
A throttle curve will help with low down grunt some, but whatever is your maximum motor torque now is not going to change.
Whatever "untapped watts" you might have left are not going to be accessible without a more powerful controller.
It may be that there is a way to unlock the 12 fet so you can manually set battery and phase amps higher than they are limited to now.
The controller can handle more. I recently ran a PowerVelocity 12 fet at 7kw continuous. I got it to 8kw and that's when it burned out.
XB-502: viewtopic.php?f=10&t=83302&p=1222730#p1222730

Currie scooter: viewtopic.php?f=35&t=83830&p=1227407#p1227407

Benjamin Franklin - "Any fool can criticize, condemn and complain and most fools do."

User avatar
PITMIX   100 W

100 W
Posts: 147
Joined: Nov 18 2018 3:25pm
Location: France

Re: Nucular electronics - complete kit for ev! [beta]

Post by PITMIX » Jan 21 2020 7:41am

To come back to Merlin's request, this setting is very good for keeping a constant power except that it would be necessary to define what happens when the battery has reached the minimum voltage that we programmed. I find that the lowering of the power to never go below the programmed minimum voltage is great. In my case I programmed at 68v for my 20s pack. I managed to reach my home located 1km away, with a 20s battery at 68v. The last 50 meters the controller had reduced the battery intensity to 7A x 68v or 476w. If I had the constant power setting I would have traveled 3m and then I would have come back on foot pushing my 400kg cart for 997m. :lol:
Aixam 550 Twin retrophite Qs 138 70H, Thermo-Nucular electronics 24F, LG Chem 20s 60Ah

User avatar
madin88   1 GW

1 GW
Posts: 3027
Joined: May 27 2013 2:02am
Location: Austria

Re: Nucular electronics - complete kit for ev! [beta]

Post by madin88 » Jan 21 2020 11:09am

PITMIX wrote:
Jan 21 2020 7:41am
If I had the constant power setting I would have traveled 3m and then I would have come back on foot pushing my 400kg cart for 997m. :lol:
I suppose the controller will reduce power either way when the voltage drops to the value you entered, so you would have more or less the same time to bring your car home :wink:

User avatar
Merlin   1 MW

1 MW
Posts: 1920
Joined: Jan 29 2013 10:00am
Location: europe

Re: Nucular electronics - complete kit for ev! [beta]

Post by Merlin » Jan 21 2020 2:21pm

Yep... A power limit doesn't mean you get more as you setup...at this point voltage x amps doesn't hit your power limit setting you have just less power.

Of course it's pretty dumb idea to setup power limits near maximum possible.

If you want a constant power from fresh to hit the lvc its not 'useful' possible. At this point where cells sag down to lvc controller will limit output power.

There are many situations where you don't have much of this setting (small batteries +high power) etc.

But anyone can setup something like "daily" ride and Iam sure you will love it.

User avatar
PITMIX   100 W

100 W
Posts: 147
Joined: Nov 18 2018 3:25pm
Location: France

Re: Nucular electronics - complete kit for ev! [beta]

Post by PITMIX » Jan 21 2020 3:13pm

Yes it's a good Idea :bigthumb:
I think it will be necessary to define a minimum voltage from which the controller can no longer activate this function.
Aixam 550 Twin retrophite Qs 138 70H, Thermo-Nucular electronics 24F, LG Chem 20s 60Ah

Ethan121   1 µW

1 µW
Posts: 4
Joined: Aug 03 2019 4:44am

Re: Nucular electronics - complete kit for ev! [beta]

Post by Ethan121 » Jan 21 2020 11:16pm

How is everyone mounting the display? I'm wondering if I'm missing a clamp or something?
Attachments
IMG_20200122_162344(1).jpg
IMG_20200122_162344(1).jpg (53.2 KiB) Viewed 1177 times
IMG_20200122_162356(1).jpg
IMG_20200122_162356(1).jpg (56.08 KiB) Viewed 1177 times

User avatar
PITMIX   100 W

100 W
Posts: 147
Joined: Nov 18 2018 3:25pm
Location: France

Re: Nucular electronics - complete kit for ev! [beta]

Post by PITMIX » Jan 22 2020 12:44am

No nothing is missing. I drilled a plate and screw with the screw in the middle of the black circle. You can use Gopro accessories. On Amazon you have dozens of accessories for a few Euros.
Aixam 550 Twin retrophite Qs 138 70H, Thermo-Nucular electronics 24F, LG Chem 20s 60Ah

Ethan121   1 µW

1 µW
Posts: 4
Joined: Aug 03 2019 4:44am

Re: Nucular electronics - complete kit for ev! [beta]

Post by Ethan121 » Jan 22 2020 12:52am

Okay that's great. Thanks


User avatar
serious_sam   10 W

10 W
Posts: 97
Joined: Mar 05 2017 8:07am
Location: Australia

Re: Nucular electronics - complete kit for ev! [beta]

Post by serious_sam » Jan 22 2020 5:26am

VasiliSk wrote:
Jan 22 2020 3:59am
This gopro mount for fork top cap
It's awesome.

I didn't realise it was included. Then I was trying to figure out how to mount the display, and I found the mount in with the other parts. Nice little bonus.

This controller is a gift that keeps on giving!

User avatar
ElectricGod   1 GW

1 GW
Posts: 3373
Joined: Nov 01 2015 5:24pm
Location: 3 OH 3

Re: Nucular electronics - complete kit for ev! [beta]

Post by ElectricGod » Jan 22 2020 11:28pm

Merlin wrote:
Jan 21 2020 2:21pm
Of course it's pretty dumb idea to setup power limits near maximum possible.
Dumb? Maybe...depends on your use case.
If I am in a race, I want max power possible.
Daily riding around, this might not be the best setting. Something a bit more conservative might be better since i don't really need full power all the time.

I have a stand-up scooter. It tops out at 45mph on 66v and 70 battery amps on the full power setting. Acceleration is pretty strong and somewhat disconcerting. If you are not ready for it when you crank the throttle, the scooter will leave you in its dust! My medium setting gets used a lot. Acceleration is somewhat less and top speed is 30mph. It's a lot more comfortable for daily use and range is significantly improved. That full power setting does get used. I'll ride in traffic with cars and sometimes I need to pass somebody in a car. 45mph gets me there in most street traffic!
XB-502: viewtopic.php?f=10&t=83302&p=1222730#p1222730

Currie scooter: viewtopic.php?f=35&t=83830&p=1227407#p1227407

Benjamin Franklin - "Any fool can criticize, condemn and complain and most fools do."

HCx   100 µW

100 µW
Posts: 9
Joined: Jan 24 2020 1:29pm

Re: Nucular electronics - complete kit for ev! [beta]

Post by HCx » Jan 24 2020 2:25pm

Hi All,

I'm trying to design a pre charge circuit to go along with my Nucular 24F installation and I can't seem to find any information about the capacitance of this controller.

Or are you guys just using a 'close enough' pre charge circuit to manually energize the system and then leaving the battery connected long term? I see the 300uA standby current so maybe leaving it connected and coming up with a jumper harness to manually precharge wouldn't be the end of the world with this controller.

User avatar
ElectricGod   1 GW

1 GW
Posts: 3373
Joined: Nov 01 2015 5:24pm
Location: 3 OH 3

Re: Nucular electronics - complete kit for ev! [beta]

Post by ElectricGod » Jan 24 2020 2:40pm

HCx wrote:
Jan 24 2020 2:25pm
Hi All,

I'm trying to design a pre charge circuit to go along with my Nucular 24F installation and I can't seem to find any information about the capacitance of this controller.

Or are you guys just using a 'close enough' pre charge circuit to manually energize the system and then leaving the battery connected long term? I see the 300uA standby current so maybe leaving it connected and coming up with a jumper harness to manually precharge wouldn't be the end of the world with this controller.
That's what I do. Close enough is good enough.
I use a 10 watt, 1K resistor for precharge on everything.
It takes more than a second to get the caps fully charged regardless of the controller and the capacitance.
But a second is plenty to eliminate 80-90% of the inrush spark on any 24 fet controller.

Since I have a 24 fet on my bench that is getting set up and a 1K precharge, I thought it worthwhile to make a video. It looks like there are lots of exposed bare connections on things. They have clear heat shrink on them.

https://youtu.be/uDJT4tD4pZ0
Last edited by ElectricGod on Jan 24 2020 9:26pm, edited 1 time in total.
XB-502: viewtopic.php?f=10&t=83302&p=1222730#p1222730

Currie scooter: viewtopic.php?f=35&t=83830&p=1227407#p1227407

Benjamin Franklin - "Any fool can criticize, condemn and complain and most fools do."

Ohbse   10 kW

10 kW
Posts: 866
Joined: Dec 26 2013 5:15pm
Location: Auckland, New Zealand

Re: Nucular electronics - complete kit for ev! [beta]

Post by Ohbse » Jan 24 2020 8:12pm

ElectricGod wrote:
Jan 18 2020 1:02pm
.
Watts = volts X amps
Battery watts = battery voltage X battery amps
Motor watts = battery voltage x phase amps
This is obviously very incorrect, phase amps x battery voltage would result in more power output than power input from the battery.

Torque is phase amps, if you want more 'kick' you need more phase amps. A 12f will not give you enough torque on a qs273.

Current drops as bemf of the motor increases until motor current reaches near zero as voltage available equals bemf. Fw extends this speed at the expense of additional current being required. This is speed range is limited by the bemf voltage exceeding the controller silicon limits.

User avatar
ElectricGod   1 GW

1 GW
Posts: 3373
Joined: Nov 01 2015 5:24pm
Location: 3 OH 3

Re: Nucular electronics - complete kit for ev! [beta]

Post by ElectricGod » Jan 24 2020 9:40pm

Ohbse wrote:
Jan 24 2020 8:12pm
ElectricGod wrote:
Jan 18 2020 1:02pm
.
Watts = volts X amps
Battery watts = battery voltage X battery amps
Motor watts = battery voltage x phase amps
This is obviously very incorrect, phase amps x battery voltage would result in more power output than power input from the battery.

Torque is phase amps, if you want more 'kick' you need more phase amps. A 12f will not give you enough torque on a qs273.

Current drops as bemf of the motor increases until motor current reaches near zero as voltage available equals bemf. Fw extends this speed at the expense of additional current being required. This is speed range is limited by the bemf voltage exceeding the controller silicon limits.
Very incorrect? How about overly simplistic and close enough for people that don't want to read white papers or spend time understanding what's really going on.

I said phase amps increases torque. Not sure what your point is.

For people that like white papers...

Here's one about how Kv works:
http://learningrc.com/motor-kv/

A couple of basic articals on bEMF:
https://www.motioncontroltips.com/lenzs-law/
https://electronics.stackexchange.com/q ... r-in-motor
XB-502: viewtopic.php?f=10&t=83302&p=1222730#p1222730

Currie scooter: viewtopic.php?f=35&t=83830&p=1227407#p1227407

Benjamin Franklin - "Any fool can criticize, condemn and complain and most fools do."

Ohbse   10 kW

10 kW
Posts: 866
Joined: Dec 26 2013 5:15pm
Location: Auckland, New Zealand

Re: Nucular electronics - complete kit for ev! [beta]

Post by Ohbse » Jan 24 2020 10:09pm

ElectricGod wrote:
Jan 24 2020 9:40pm
Very incorrect? How about overly simplistic and close enough for people that don't want to read white papers or spend time understanding what's really going on.
My point is that this:
ElectricGod wrote:
Jan 18 2020 1:02pm
.
Motor watts = battery voltage x phase amps
Is not true.

User avatar
sn0wchyld   1 MW

1 MW
Posts: 1725
Joined: Mar 18 2011 8:27pm
Location: South Aus.

Re: Nucular electronics - complete kit for ev! [beta]

Post by sn0wchyld » Jan 24 2020 10:20pm

ElectricGod wrote:
Jan 24 2020 9:40pm
Ohbse wrote:
Jan 24 2020 8:12pm
ElectricGod wrote:
Jan 18 2020 1:02pm
.
Watts = volts X amps
Battery watts = battery voltage X battery amps
Motor watts = battery voltage x phase amps
This is obviously very incorrect, phase amps x battery voltage would result in more power output than power input from the battery.

Torque is phase amps, if you want more 'kick' you need more phase amps. A 12f will not give you enough torque on a qs273.

Current drops as bemf of the motor increases until motor current reaches near zero as voltage available equals bemf. Fw extends this speed at the expense of additional current being required. This is speed range is limited by the bemf voltage exceeding the controller silicon limits.
Very incorrect? How about overly simplistic and close enough for people that don't want to read white papers or spend time understanding what's really going on.

I said phase amps increases torque. Not sure what your point is.

For people that like white papers...

Here's one about how Kv works:
http://learningrc.com/motor-kv/

A couple of basic articals on bEMF:
https://www.motioncontroltips.com/lenzs-law/
https://electronics.stackexchange.com/q ... r-in-motor
EG mate, this is why some people get annoyed with you from time to time. On your RV motor thread you've just had it explained by several people in no uncertain terms that the calculation bV x phA is meaningless/useless/erroneous, yet here you are defending it as somehow valid or useful, if but 'oversimplified'. Its not even that... It doesn't tell you anything about the system at hand. its not 'motor watts'... motor watts is either A, = battery watts (perhaps accounting for controller output efficiency), or B, = mechanical output power, NEITHER of which is related to or determined by bV x phA. phA gives a indication of torque, subject to things like saturation. bV gives an indication of max RPM with respect to a given motor. its only with the knowledge of bA that power of either the battery output/motor input, or the motor mechanical output can be determined... and none of these values are determined (nor any other value of worth) by multiplying bV with phA. Perhaps you can explain what you are trying to get a 'feel for' with this number your calculating, some of us might be able to point you in a better direction?

You may well see this as some kind of 'personal attack' mate, but its not - its constructive criticism of the errors in your understanding and knowledge, with a clear indication as to both why its in error, and how to fix/improve it. And its stated in an effort to head off spreading of further confusion on an already complicated/complex enough system. If your looking for a 'simplified' view / understanding of the system, this is simply not the way to do it, because as mentioned several times now, it doesn't bare any relation to how the system will behave.

User avatar
sn0wchyld   1 MW

1 MW
Posts: 1725
Joined: Mar 18 2011 8:27pm
Location: South Aus.

Re: Nucular electronics - complete kit for ev! [beta]

Post by sn0wchyld » Jan 25 2020 1:45am

hey all finally got my nuk on my surron - 2 imidiate questions though, does anyone know the thermal probe type in the motor + its pole count? and is it possible to swap the throttle and brake controls (ie so my 'brake' becomes my 'throttle' and visa versa). Am presently hunting through the wiki but not found anything yet... chrs

edit found 2/3 on the wiki, last one is the brake/throttle switch? cheers.
also, is there a way to mode switch using the screen buttons, or only an external button?

j bjork   1 kW

1 kW
Posts: 392
Joined: Aug 31 2018 3:01pm
Location: Linköping, Sweden

Re: Nucular electronics - complete kit for ev! [beta]

Post by j bjork » Jan 25 2020 4:59am

sn0wchyld wrote:
Jan 25 2020 1:45am
hey all finally got my nuk on my surron - 2 imidiate questions though, does anyone know the thermal probe type in the motor + its pole count? and is it possible to swap the throttle and brake controls (ie so my 'brake' becomes my 'throttle' and visa versa). Am presently hunting through the wiki but not found anything yet... chrs

edit found 2/3 on the wiki, last one is the brake/throttle switch? cheers.
also, is there a way to mode switch using the screen buttons, or only an external button?
I don't know anything about surron. But mode switch, I guess you mean 1,2,3,R ?
You can set up the buttons on the display to do that in different ways, look up "hot keys" in the manual. Works very good, no need for an external switch.

User avatar
serious_sam   10 W

10 W
Posts: 97
Joined: Mar 05 2017 8:07am
Location: Australia

Re: Nucular electronics - complete kit for ev! [beta]

Post by serious_sam » Jan 25 2020 5:19am

HCx wrote:
Jan 24 2020 2:25pm
Hi All,

I'm trying to design a pre charge circuit to go along with my Nucular 24F installation and I can't seem to find any information about the capacitance of this controller.

Or are you guys just using a 'close enough' pre charge circuit to manually energize the system and then leaving the battery connected long term? I see the 300uA standby current so maybe leaving it connected and coming up with a jumper harness to manually precharge wouldn't be the end of the world with this controller.
Quoted capacitance of 12F is 2000uf.
viewtopic.php?f=31&t=75494&p=1483963#p1483989

Not sure about the 24F, but I would assume it's 4000uf. You could ask Vasiliy on the Telegram chat to confirm.

When I was doing some preliminary testing of my 12F (before I had a precharge circuit up and running), I was just plugging my 20S test pack into the controller, and I wasn't seeing any sparks. I would probably feel fine without any precharge. YMMV.

However, I am running a precharge/kill switch for my 12F. The circuit activates a mosfet that precharges the controller through a 100R 10W resistor whilst sensing the capacitor charge voltage, and turns on the main power mosfets when the capacitor charge reaches ~95% (which takes about 0.5 seconds). It is activated by a switch on the handlebars, so it also doubles as a kill switch, cutting all power to the controller if required. I like the idea that I can disconnect the battery with a flick of a switch on the handlebars in an emergency. Any system that can relatively easily cause fire should have some kind of redundant safety, IMO.

User avatar
sn0wchyld   1 MW

1 MW
Posts: 1725
Joined: Mar 18 2011 8:27pm
Location: South Aus.

Re: Nucular electronics - complete kit for ev! [beta]

Post by sn0wchyld » Jan 25 2020 6:54am

j bjork wrote:
Jan 25 2020 4:59am
sn0wchyld wrote:
Jan 25 2020 1:45am
hey all finally got my nuk on my surron - 2 imidiate questions though, does anyone know the thermal probe type in the motor + its pole count? and is it possible to swap the throttle and brake controls (ie so my 'brake' becomes my 'throttle' and visa versa). Am presently hunting through the wiki but not found anything yet... chrs

edit found 2/3 on the wiki, last one is the brake/throttle switch? cheers.
also, is there a way to mode switch using the screen buttons, or only an external button?
I don't know anything about surron. But mode switch, I guess you mean 1,2,3,R ?
You can set up the buttons on the display to do that in different ways, look up "hot keys" in the manual. Works very good, no need for an external switch.
that got it cheers - though there doesn't appear to be a option to select mode 1? i can get 2, 3 and R but 1 doesn't appear as an option at all... still hoping theres a software way to swap throttle and brake too...

j bjork   1 kW

1 kW
Posts: 392
Joined: Aug 31 2018 3:01pm
Location: Linköping, Sweden

Re: Nucular electronics - complete kit for ev! [beta]

Post by j bjork » Jan 25 2020 7:17am

It goes back to 1 when you press it again. At least that is how it works with my setup. I have one button for 1/2, one for 1/3 and one for whatever/R (that one goes back to the setting it had before R)

User avatar
VasiliSk   100 W

100 W
Posts: 296
Joined: Apr 10 2014 5:11am
Location: Russia
Contact:

Re: Nucular electronics - complete kit for ev! [beta]

Post by VasiliSk » Jan 26 2020 5:53am

There is no option to swap throttle and brake for safety reasons

User avatar
sn0wchyld   1 MW

1 MW
Posts: 1725
Joined: Mar 18 2011 8:27pm
Location: South Aus.

Re: Nucular electronics - complete kit for ev! [beta]

Post by sn0wchyld » Jan 26 2020 8:23am

j bjork wrote:
Jan 25 2020 7:17am
It goes back to 1 when you press it again. At least that is how it works with my setup. I have one button for 1/2, one for 1/3 and one for whatever/R (that one goes back to the setting it had before R)
In my case its always on 2 - or goes back to 2, with no option for 1... even having programmed 1 button to switch to mode 1... so i can only get 2, 3, R...
VasiliSk wrote:
Jan 26 2020 5:53am
There is no option to swap throttle and brake for safety reasons

fair enough, with the surron harness then - the throttle input is not connected, if I connect a throttle to that can I still use it (instead of the default input)?

User avatar
VasiliSk   100 W

100 W
Posts: 296
Joined: Apr 10 2014 5:11am
Location: Russia
Contact:

Re: Nucular electronics - complete kit for ev! [beta]

Post by VasiliSk » Jan 26 2020 9:05am

how did you configured speed switch?
surron wires have direct throttle connection, if you want to connect it somewhere else i suggest to use display port

Post Reply