BC168, Hyena's awesome isolated high current balance charger

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Sigmacom   10 W

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Re: Hyena's super awesome isolated high current balance char

Post by Sigmacom » Apr 14 2014 6:00pm

I've been using 2 x UNA9 Plus for months now charging my 18S battery. There is no issue charging 9S from each charger. I run them off 2 x EFuel 30A power supplies that are fully isolated.

The standard connection will work but those JST plugs burn out pretty quickly so I replaced the whole output wiring harness with 18 gauge silicon wire and high-mating-cycle Molex connectors. Its easy to get to the output contacts at one end of the PCB to attach these.

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izeman   100 GW

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Re: AW: Hyena's super awesome isolated high current balance

Post by izeman » Apr 15 2014 12:57am

Do you have an English manual? Basic operation is simple but all those different presets and modes are not straight forward for me.

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Re: Hyena's super awesome isolated high current balance char

Post by TheBeastie » Apr 15 2014 7:20am

Sigmacom wrote:I've been using 2 x UNA9 Plus for months now charging my 18S battery. There is no issue charging 9S from each charger. I run them off 2 x EFuel 30A power supplies that are fully isolated.
Cool, did you have to do anything to make those power supplies isolated or is it just out of the box happening?
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Re: Hyena's super awesome isolated high current balance char

Post by icecube57 » Apr 15 2014 9:25am

I sell isolated PSUs. Much cheaper than efuels.

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izeman   100 GW

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Re: Hyena's super awesome isolated high current balance char

Post by izeman » Apr 15 2014 10:25am

TheBeastie wrote:
Sigmacom wrote:I've been using 2 x UNA9 Plus for months now charging my 18S battery. There is no issue charging 9S from each charger. I run them off 2 x EFuel 30A power supplies that are fully isolated.
Cool, did you have to do anything to make those power supplies isolated or is it just out of the box happening?
i remember reading that TWO of these chargers can be connected to a single power source. that's different from the bc168 where this does not work. but don't sue me if it's wrong. i connected two of them to one power supply, but i did NOT connect it to a 12s battery. only 2 single 6s ones.

Sigmacom   10 W

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Re: Hyena's super awesome isolated high current balance char

Post by Sigmacom » Apr 16 2014 5:05am

The EFuel 30A supplies are isolated out of the box.

However I can't really recommend them as I have had 2 fail already and replaced under warranty. They develop an issue where they have a glitch on the output when under load - a brief interruption that causes BC168s or UNA9s to reset. It took several months for this issue to occur on each unit that failed, and it only happens when they are supplying more than about 16A.

Tonight I tested to see if the UNA9s are themselves isolated - and I can tell you that mine definitely are not! I plugged both into the same supply, then attached and started charging 2 separate 6S batteries - one on each UNA9. I put a 1K resistor between the negative discharge lead of one 6S pack and the negative discharge lead on the other 6S pack and read about 20V across it! So at least mine definitely need 2 separate isolated power supplies to run them.

If you do decide to charge a single pack larger than 9S remember that you need to run the top balance lead on one UNA9 and the corresponding bottom balance lead on the other UNA9 (these balance leads are effectively attached to the same point on your pack) all the way to the cell contact before joining them together. If you don't you will get spurious readings on the top and bottom cell on each alternate UNA9 due to current path sharing during the sensing phase.

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izeman   100 GW

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Re: Hyena's super awesome isolated high current balance char

Post by izeman » Apr 16 2014 6:10am

Sigmacom wrote:Tonight I tested to see if the UNA9s are themselves isolated - and I can tell you that mine definitely are not! I plugged both into the same supply, then attached and started charging 2 separate 6S batteries - one on each UNA9. I put a 1K resistor between the negative discharge lead of one 6S pack and the negative discharge lead on the other 6S pack and read about 20V across it! So at least mine definitely need 2 separate isolated power supplies to run them.
i will do the same test. even though it's not relevant for me, as i only use one charger at a time to do balancing or before initial setup/installation of the pack.
for a power supply i can only recommend those use server power supplies. even though my hp580 one only outputs some 13v (after mod) it can deliver more than 50a. and it's really stable and after a fan mod super silent as well. and it was only $^15 delivered.

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Re: Hyena's super awesome isolated high current balance char

Post by solar.g » May 17 2014 11:21am

Hyena,
Are you still re-selling the BC168?
And do you know if there is an 8S version or alternative?
I'm using a borrowed Turnigy Accucell 8150 to charge LiFePO4 Headways for non-ebike application.
I've learnt that the Turnigy doesn't bleed enough from high cells when balancing to avoid high cell voltages (>4V on some!).
Even if I charge one cell at a time, when I put them into a pack some still go to stupid-high voltages.
Time for a proper charger, I think.
I'm in Melbourne, so postage is easy.
How much, how quick? PM me, please.
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Re: Hyena's super awesome isolated high current balance char

Post by pendragon8000 » Jun 02 2014 6:11am

Image
Image
these 2 images show how i used a small heat sink epoxyed to the parallel board conection point, to reduce heat at said point. i was finding it was geting concerningly hot.
now its getting warm but not too hot. ill be extending the 7 wires so the board is functional with my physical setup. atm its a bit or a streach on the balance wires from the pack.
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Re: Hyena's super awesome isolated high current balance char

Post by TheBeastie » Jun 02 2014 6:24am

pendragon8000 wrote: these 2 images show how i used a small heat sink epoxyed to the parallel board conection point, to reduce heat at said point. i was finding it was geting concerningly hot.
now its getting warm but not too hot. ill be extending the 7 wires so the board is functional with my physical setup. atm its a bit or a streach on the balance wires from the pack.
Cool so you got a UNA9.
Before my aircon broke down last summer I was convinced that BBQed balance leads at 7-8amps (on BC168) was a bunch of baloney but then when the room temperature got warm was starting to notice BBQing balance lead problems, especially wire 0.
I do believe that room temperature can make a large difference and having the balance leads near some fans can make all the difference (or just charging at a lower amp rate). I think a thermal run away issue does exist once a balance wire gets hot, its like the heat increases the total resistance and as a result just keeps getting hotter.

12v fans are so cheap http://www.ebay.com.au/sch/i.html?_odkw ... cat=175673
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Over Charging Kills ur battery bit.ly/1hzWKl4
Consider PAS as your only throttle https://goo.gl/Kg1F8F
Fuel-Cell is the ultimate battery coupled with 4th-gen Nuclear
https://goo.gl/TcKtHs https://goo.gl/ZhFFot https://goo.gl/gfa215
10 Square Miles of solar panels = 0.12GW average power! https://goo.gl/Ub1S39

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izeman   100 GW

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Re: Hyena's super awesome isolated high current balance char

Post by izeman » Jun 02 2014 8:08am

i know it's a shame to not use a charger to all it's extent, but if you keep current below 4A you should not run into troubles. those jst-xh are rated for 3A with awg22 wire. if you really melt some insulation of the balance wires this can lead to a very bad situation. most probably the wires will just melt away when shorted, but even that is not cool. using a fan is a good idea if it really has to be high current.
i still recommend using a bulk charger and just do the balancing for highly out of balance packs with these chargers.

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Re: Hyena's super awesome isolated high current balance char

Post by skeetab5780 » Jun 02 2014 10:52am

Ya I've ruined 1 parallel board so far charging too high of current, Lost the negative on just 1 part of the pack which could have been bad if I didn't check them all with a battery medic. Now I just reduced the amps to 5.5 and I haven't had much of an issue. I still do not leave it unattended ever.

I really like the heat sink idea and I think I will try that!

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Re: Hyena's super awesome isolated high current balance char

Post by dan974 » Jun 02 2014 2:02pm

7Ah with one plug into 2x8Ah 5S in parallell is ok for me , I noticed that same with 2x8Ah ask more power 6x8Ah and so the wires and mass get hotter...8A charge is ok for 2 plugs (2x 16Ah(8Ah zippy in // with extension)

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Re: Hyena's super awesome isolated high current balance char

Post by TheBeastie » Dec 09 2014 6:41am

I thought I would post here since its inline with the topic.
I just got the CB86 as one channel on my BC168 died (took a few years tho!) and its getting a tad annoying to use..

So far my CB86 is working, the buttons are a tad dodgey and two of them had gotten stuck down and I had to wiggle them from the sides to help them push them selves back up to normal, I am hoping its just a new button idiosyncrasy..

The CB86 looks more capable then I initially thought, seems like you can plug in different lipos and instead of just parallel charging them like a simple breakout cable would. It actually charges each pack separately and "cycles" through each pack after the previous pack is done, see below at 5:40 secs.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tw9fdp6fb6Y#t=340

I am just doing some basic usage first, I will let everyone know if you can plug a S12 pack into it in serial and have it cycle charge it all up with out it shorting...

I guess there could be an intelligent way to work this out without having to put a S12 pack onto the charger? Like measure resistance between output-1 cell 6 and output-2 cell 6 or something of that nature?
Any input would be appreciated.
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Fuel-Cell is the ultimate battery coupled with 4th-gen Nuclear
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Re: Hyena's super awesome isolated high current balance char

Post by izeman » Dec 09 2014 9:40am

[rant on] o man. once again this f***** ugly 'times new roman'. is it just me? i can't buy a product which uses this crappy font. it looks so damn CHINESE (in a bad way, as i like chinese products over all). why can't chinese product engineer not chose a font more pleasant to the eye??? [/rant off]

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Re: Hyena's super awesome isolated high current balance char

Post by nechaus » Dec 09 2014 10:00pm

haha
apparently the Chinese are big on fonts, i remember reading that some guy in china figured out if they use a certain type of font, it will save the nation x amount of $$$ in printing costs.. i know this is different but funny to remember .

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Re: Hyena's super awesome isolated high current balance char

Post by t3sla » Dec 09 2014 10:59pm

There are a million reasons why they would be using that font, but there is only one way you will get something else.... $
Endless Spirit.

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Alan B   100 GW

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Re: Hyena's super awesome isolated high current balance char

Post by Alan B » Dec 09 2014 11:09pm

izeman wrote:[rant on] o man. once again this f***** ugly 'times new roman'. is it just me? i can't buy a product which uses this crappy font. it looks so damn CHINESE (in a bad way, as i like chinese products over all). why can't chinese product engineer not chose a font more pleasant to the eye??? [/rant off]
Really?

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Re: Hyena's super awesome isolated high current balance char

Post by TheBeastie » Dec 10 2014 3:55am

Well judging from the amount of posts since waking up this old thread I am guessing some people are somewhat eager to know if this can be slapped on in full series on a s12 or maybe in theory up to s48 pack.
I will try to do some tests tonight and give some kind of answer.

For a lot of posts I always have an image come to mind that reflects the mood of the topic. This is the image that come to mind for this topic.

Image
Last edited by TheBeastie on Dec 10 2014 6:41am, edited 1 time in total.
Speed Kills Range, 10mph = 46 miles range, 20mph = 20 miles, 30mph = 8 miles rangehttps://goo.gl/1JNL53
Over Charging Kills ur battery bit.ly/1hzWKl4
Consider PAS as your only throttle https://goo.gl/Kg1F8F
Fuel-Cell is the ultimate battery coupled with 4th-gen Nuclear
https://goo.gl/TcKtHs https://goo.gl/ZhFFot https://goo.gl/gfa215
10 Square Miles of solar panels = 0.12GW average power! https://goo.gl/Ub1S39

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izeman   100 GW

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Re: Hyena's super awesome isolated high current balance char

Post by izeman » Dec 10 2014 4:46am

Alan B wrote:Really?
yes. really. have you never wondered? all manuals are in times new roman, all stickers attached to any devices. even on the websites they use it.
when was the last time you've seen 'times new roman' in every day live - it died with the death of type writers. it's all SANS SERIF fonts now.

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Re: Hyena's super awesome isolated high current balance char

Post by Emoto » Dec 10 2014 8:51am

TheBeastie wrote:Well judging from the amount of posts since waking up this old thread I am guessing some people are somewhat eager to know if this can be slapped on in full series on a s12 or maybe in theory up to s48 pack.
I will try to do some tests tonight and give some kind of answer.
Please do i have started a new thread for this charger http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... 14&t=65316

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Re: Hyena's super awesome isolated high current balance char

Post by TheBeastie » Dec 10 2014 9:58am

Emoto wrote: Please do i have started a new thread for this charger http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... 14&t=65316
Yeah its up to you but you may want to consider deleting that thread as the news seems to be not that exciting :cry:

I placed a thin piece of nickle as a fuse between S6 and S7 and plugged S1-S6 in first CB86 input and then S7-S11 on the second CB86 input (its a S11 4P pack)

It stays all nice when the CB86 is off, fuse is OK. The CB86 was set to start up in "cycle mode" and all I had to do was hit the "start" button but it didnt get that far.. as soon powered on the CB86 the fuse went orange and blew..

The CB86 still seems to be working OK but I don't know if there is a more indicative test to say that no you can't plug it in a S12 pack and have it work, seems like the only way is to split your pack in half if you want to use a single 6 channel charger just the same as the BC168.

I am tempted to try plugging the second on set of inputs one cell upwards so its S2-S6 but I think its not going to work anyway and it wouldn't be of use for S12 pack only S11 or less.

The mini fuse I made might look large here but those round shaped nib magnets on either side are 10mm wide each.
IMAG0192222.jpg
IMAG0192222.jpg (111.92 KiB) Viewed 2943 times
The cycle charge mode most certainly works on S6 packs that are completely separate from the rest of the pack and I have verified that each S6 pack shows its own set of different voltages as in there is no paralleling going on internally but I will say again it does not appear you can hook up a S7+ pack up wired in series into the CB86 inputs like I had hoped.

Here is a small vid of when I turned it on hooked up in series. On second 2 you will see a little orange glow from the fuse as I turn on the CB86.
http://youtu.be/J6CU1lW9vUU
Speed Kills Range, 10mph = 46 miles range, 20mph = 20 miles, 30mph = 8 miles rangehttps://goo.gl/1JNL53
Over Charging Kills ur battery bit.ly/1hzWKl4
Consider PAS as your only throttle https://goo.gl/Kg1F8F
Fuel-Cell is the ultimate battery coupled with 4th-gen Nuclear
https://goo.gl/TcKtHs https://goo.gl/ZhFFot https://goo.gl/gfa215
10 Square Miles of solar panels = 0.12GW average power! https://goo.gl/Ub1S39

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Hyena   100 GW

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Re: Hyena's super awesome isolated high current balance char

Post by Hyena » Dec 10 2014 3:56pm

TheBeastie wrote:I am tempted to try plugging the second on set of inputs one cell upwards so its S2-S6
Exactly what I was going to suggest. The other option is to not plug in the pack until you put it in series mode - incase it defaults to parallel at power up (assuming it's software switching)
IF it works it'd be a great charger for the occasional top up balance charge with a multipin connector.

Good to hear to didn't kill the charger during testing anyway (like I did with 2x BC168s early on!)
Otherwise your post image would have been:

Image

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Re: Hyena's super awesome isolated high current balance char

Post by Emoto » Dec 11 2014 6:56am

TheBeastie wrote:
Emoto wrote: Please do i have started a new thread for this charger http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... 14&t=65316
Yeah its up to you but you may want to consider deleting that thread as the news seems to be not that exciting :cry:
I think ill leave it up just to let people know its out there, feel free to ad any of you science / experiments :)

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Re: Hyena's super awesome isolated high current balance char

Post by diggler » Feb 15 2015 3:41am

- Two this UN-A6 chargers could be combined to compose one 12S charger and even share one input power.
why haven't they made a 10S...
Image
http://www.goodluckbuy.com/upgrade-un-a ... arger.html
Can anybody confirm or deny this?????
Wouldn't this be the IDEAL charger then?
Does the bc 168 have discharge function?
What's the difference between un a6 and un a6 plus? Just the discharge?
Or is it also the capability to use two to charge a 12s off one 12v supply?
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