5-16S Smart Tiny BMS preorder - 30/150/750A rated

Place for dealers to post items for sale.
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Merlin   10 MW

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Re: 5-16S Smart Tiny BMS preorder - 30/150/750A rated

Post by Merlin » Dec 28 2019 7:35am

That's easy to say customers do something wrong but there wasn't something wrong.
Simply because I had 2 of them and bms wires were allready installed.
Soldering b- b+ and put the balance leads from existing battery in there.

How can that be wrong?

There was nothing else attached. Not a program wire no bt not even the lem sensor.

I have also signed a nda and that wasn't simple bike batteries.
Your company missed now the biggest player in your list since this prototype batteries visited one of the top 5 international automotive suppliers.


And for what? A 100 dollar issue.
(I know it wasn't you since you are a dev guy...)

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Re: 5-16S Smart Tiny BMS preorder - 30/150/750A rated

Post by circuit » Dec 28 2019 7:43am

Merlin, I really can't comment on what happened there, but if your company will be revisiting the search of BMS, please give us a second chance, as it sounds like there may have been a miscommunication of some sort. The company grew over the years and there are several sales/support reps out there, trying to make their cut. You know the story...

Out of curiosity, what BMS did you choose and how many were bought so far? Any issues?
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Re: 5-16S Smart Tiny BMS preorder - 30/150/750A rated

Post by hary » Dec 29 2019 11:17am

circuit.

That's right that the 45€ shipping cost seems just too excessive.

The uninsulated USB/UART CP2102 cable or the BT module are also sold at high prices, and it is not clear if as DIY they can be replaced by cheap ones from Ebay (by the way where insulated USB/UART cable can be found for cheaper).

As a DIYer, I expect something with schematics, at least what chip does it use.
Or that it has a lot of review/hack on some forum.

I can't find a lot of what I'm expecting from TinyBMS. Despite it seems to be well documented (76 pages datasheet, open UART protocol) I afraid to feel a bit alone with an expensive TinyBMS.

Chinese on the other side appears in a lot of post, even if their documentation is very poor.

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Re: 5-16S Smart Tiny BMS preorder - 30/150/750A rated

Post by circuit » Dec 29 2019 12:03pm

hary wrote:
Dec 29 2019 11:17am
circuit.

That's right that the 45€ shipping cost seems just too excessive.

The uninsulated USB/UART CP2102 cable or the BT module are also sold at high prices, and it is not clear if as DIY they can be replaced by cheap ones from Ebay (by the way where insulated USB/UART cable can be found for cheaper).

As a DIYer, I expect something with schematics, at least what chip does it use.
Or that it has a lot of review/hack on some forum.

I can't find a lot of what I'm expecting from TinyBMS. Despite it seems to be well documented (76 pages datasheet, open UART protocol) I afraid to feel a bit alone with an expensive TinyBMS.

Chinese on the other side appears in a lot of post, even if their documentation is very poor.
Hi hary,

Thank you for your feedback, however, again, this is not a DIY or hack-oriented product. What you are asking for is to be expected if it was... Please note this sales thread was started 4 years ago, when the product was released. Then it was very interesting to get some feedback and these forums looked like a good place for open conversation. However, 4 years later, it's a professional, OEM-oriented product now. We, as a company, can not afford making few bucks on a sale and then providing costly support that typical DIYers need. The documentation should be more than adequate to get up and running for a professional.
I have counted over 15 DIY-BMS attempts over last 10 years and none survived more than 2 years, that I know of. There must be a good reason for that...
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Re: 5-16S Smart Tiny BMS preorder - 30/150/750A rated

Post by john61ct » Dec 29 2019 1:40pm

Yes, listening to complaints about minor pricing issues, comparing to DIY / hobby stuff etc is a fool's game,

race to the bottom puts quality companies out of business.

This is a market niche where serious players committed to quality have to charge many times the price of cheap Chinese stuff, and still not waste expensive support resources on people figuring stuff out.

Customers have to understand this and support the good companies, not expect the world for the price of a restaurant dinner.

Or else there's nothing left but crap in the world.

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Re: 5-16S Smart Tiny BMS preorder - 30/150/750A rated

Post by Altair » Dec 29 2019 4:16pm

While I understand Energus' point in not wanting to lose time and money with the DIY market, a question arises about the pertinence of posting the BMS for sale here on Endless Sphere, which IS a DIY forum. But then again, as electric vehicles go (except automobiles), the main actors still are the DIY group.
I too agree that the 45Euro shipping charge was excessive, considering that the customs office in my country, Canada, charges tax not only on the goods, but also on the shipping paid.
I would also have appreciated that the standard accessories (wiring, temp. sensors, bluetooth module) come WITH the BMS, not as additional items. That BMS cost me a small fortune, but I can't complain about the performance and reliability.
The best way to avoid lost time with the customer service, is to have a comprehensive Users Manual, which you do have now, but you didn't at the time I ordered my BMS. With everything clearly explained, anyone should't need any additional help from the manufacturer.
Thanks for addressing the issues here.

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Re: 5-16S Smart Tiny BMS preorder - 30/150/750A rated

Post by hary » Dec 30 2019 3:54am

Altair wrote:
Dec 29 2019 4:16pm
While I understand Energus' point in not wanting to lose time and money with the DIY market, a question arises about the pertinence of posting the BMS for sale here on Endless Sphere, which IS a DIY forum.
.
.
.
And I've read a lot of post now about BMS, and I understood that circuit is part of Energus (maybe the head) and he has been asking a lot of question here for developing his TinyBMS, which in a way is absolutely great.
But it is disappointing that it ends up to something that looks very commercial and closed device.
If I would be older on this forum and would have been participating to these post regarding the development time of the TinyBMS (back to 2016), I would now feel a little strange/bad...

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Re: 5-16S Smart Tiny BMS preorder - 30/150/750A rated

Post by circuit » Dec 30 2019 4:43am

hary, just out of curiosity... Would you mind pointing out to the questions I asked and answers given? Because I remember presenting the product at it's initial release and asking what extra features you, the community, would like. Some of suggestions were implemented.
I have not, however, asked how to pull off particular hardware implementations or how to code things. So there is nothing to feel used about. Some members wanted a feature and that feature is now available, so now you have one more option to choose from. Isn't it a win-win?
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Re: 5-16S Smart Tiny BMS preorder - 30/150/750A rated

Post by john61ct » Dec 30 2019 5:44am

Yes as wonderful as the FOSS / open hardware movements are, just the fact a vendor participates in a forum does not imply any obligations are thus incurred.

Exchange of information is always in the interest of the community, as is freely helping vendors improve their products, same as helping noobs and DIYers with their issues.

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Re: 5-16S Smart Tiny BMS preorder - 30/150/750A rated

Post by Upperfoot » Dec 30 2019 7:16am

circuit wrote:
Dec 29 2019 12:03pm
Hi hary,

Thank you for your feedback, however, again, this is not a DIY or hack-oriented product. What you are asking for is to be expected if it was... Please note this sales thread was started 4 years ago, when the product was released. Then it was very interesting to get some feedback and these forums looked like a good place for open conversation. However, 4 years later, it's a professional, OEM-oriented product now. We, as a company, can not afford making few bucks on a sale and then providing costly support that typical DIYers need. The documentation should be more than adequate to get up and running for a professional.
I have counted over 15 DIY-BMS attempts over last 10 years and none survived more than 2 years, that I know of. There must be a good reason for that...
As a thought, you could always charge for support separately as a DIYer vs OEM.

I personally would find that more transparent than trying to wrap it together within other charges as the needs of the two different types of customers are different.

You could structure it like (numbers are just for example)

Shipping price lowered to standard rates

1- 20 BMS orders - Sell support at £30 as a separate product on your website to cover X amount of hours (or whatever your margin is on the shipping to cover support costs)
20+ BMS orders - Support is included

That way you keep your margin for support for those that need it, and you exclude it from the price for those that don't, or have hit the threshold for minimum orders for the cost to be absorbed.

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Re: 5-16S Smart Tiny BMS preorder - 30/150/750A rated

Post by vanR » Jan 15 2020 12:33pm

@Circuit: Do you recommend fusing the cell tap wires? If so, what fuse specifications do you recommend? If not, why not?
Does this recommendation change when not using TinyBMS to balance the cells?

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Re: 5-16S Smart Tiny BMS preorder - 30/150/750A rated

Post by circuit » Jan 15 2020 12:37pm

Fusing is a good idea in case there is short between wires. Fuses should be located close to cells, rated at 200mA.
There will be no negative impact AFAIK, only slightly higher build cost.
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Re: 5-16S Smart Tiny BMS preorder - 30/150/750A rated

Post by cricketo » Jan 15 2020 12:59pm

circuit wrote:
Dec 29 2019 12:03pm
Thank you for your feedback, however, again, this is not a DIY or hack-oriented product.
Which is kind of hilarious, considering you've built a Swiss Army knife. Why would ANY OEM get a Swiss Army knife at a premium, when they need just a box cutter ? Don't get me wrong, it's your business and you're free to run it whichever way, especially if you feel you're doing just fine. Just an observation though.

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Re: 5-16S Smart Tiny BMS preorder - 30/150/750A rated

Post by circuit » Jan 15 2020 1:28pm

cricketo wrote:
Jan 15 2020 12:59pm
circuit wrote:
Dec 29 2019 12:03pm
Thank you for your feedback, however, again, this is not a DIY or hack-oriented product.
Which is kind of hilarious, considering you've built a Swiss Army knife. Why would ANY OEM get a Swiss Army knife at a premium, when they need just a box cutter ? Don't get me wrong, it's your business and you're free to run it whichever way, especially if you feel you're doing just fine. Just an observation though.
Well, we work closely with OEMs and often we not only add features, but remove them as well, to bring cost down. Look at this product as a demo. It is still, however, much cheaper than competition with similar feature sets.
If it's too expensive and you don't need a swiss army knife, how about $15 PCM from aliexpress? Those are fine for many DIY builds, I use one myself on a cheap kick scooter.
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Re: 5-16S Smart Tiny BMS preorder - 30/150/750A rated

Post by john61ct » Jan 15 2020 2:03pm

link please?

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Re: 5-16S Smart Tiny BMS preorder - 30/150/750A rated

Post by circuit » Jan 15 2020 2:51pm

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Re: 5-16S Smart Tiny BMS preorder - 30/150/750A rated

Post by john61ct » Jan 15 2020 3:18pm

Huh?

I meant to these
circuit wrote:$15 PCM from aliexpress? Those are fine for many DIY builds, I use one myself on a cheap kick scooter.
Sorry if that was not clear


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Re: 5-16S Smart Tiny BMS preorder - 30/150/750A rated

Post by circuit » Jan 16 2020 5:26am

john61ct wrote:
Jan 15 2020 3:18pm
Huh?

I meant to these
circuit wrote:$15 PCM from aliexpress? Those are fine for many DIY builds, I use one myself on a cheap kick scooter.
Sorry if that was not clear
Just google it. There are plenty of colors and flavors, down to $3 a pop.
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Re: 5-16S Smart Tiny BMS preorder - 30/150/750A rated

Post by john61ct » Jan 16 2020 9:01pm

I was hoping someone could recommend a specific model known to be better than average. Costing a bit more is OK to get robust build quality components better reliability and lingevity.

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Re: 5-16S Smart Tiny BMS preorder - 30/150/750A rated

Post by WalkerYYJ » Jul 31 2020 1:57pm

Hey all,
So for clarification, I see mention of talking over the Cycleanalyst protocol. Does that mean you can connect one of the comms lines to a Cycleanalyst to get SOC, speedo/range/etc data/calculations?
In an Ebike setup already using a Cycleanalyst/Phaserunner/GMAC/ etc what’s the usual configuration when running a custom pack powered by a TinyBMS?

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Re: 5-16S Smart Tiny BMS preorder - 30/150/750A rated

Post by circuit » Aug 01 2020 3:20am

The protocol is used by TinyBMS to use android apps, designed for cycle analyst. Actual interconnect ob TinyBMS and cycle analyst is not possible and not needed, as TinyBMS calculates SOC by itself.
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