Bosch Perfomance Line Throttle Mod

Electric Motors and Controllers
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Gazoo   1 µW

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Bosch Perfomance Line Throttle Mod

Post by Gazoo » Apr 20 2019 12:19pm

Hey,

I got my hands on "broken" Bosch Performance Line motor for cheap. The issue with it seemed to be the electronics - error 500 and 531.
I've been searching for one like that for quite some time because I had a plan - I wanted the Bosch motor equipped with throttle.

Before I start describing the process let me explain my choice. I already have Kona Stinky converted to an ebike, with 2600W hub motor that I converted myself, I love it, but it having no gearing makes steep climbs tough, so i thought about making another bike using central mounted motor. The Bafangs BBS seem to me a bit delicate, it decreases clearence and it's not cheap compared to hubs, and still I'm not convinced to mid drives - this project is for me to verify which is better for me (the Bafang Ultra however seems a great option if only it was cheaper).
Bosch on the other hand seems sturdy, compact and hides neatly between the cranks - thats what I like about it. What I don't like is that there is no easy way to DIY them. Expensive batteries with little capacity, CAN communication, no throttle.
That is when i got an idea of replacing every electronic part of that system with something more friendly - chinese KT controller and a custom battery, this would give me mechanically great engine with easy to use and modify electronics.
Still, you need to remember that this project is done on a cheap, there might be some better systems for this application, but i really wanted to go this way, to test myself and possibilities of this motor.

So i got this engine for cheap - scrap value almost. I disassembled it, removing the controller and one other PCB which to seemed to be the hall sensor (correct me if I'm wrong).

Image

After disassembly my first obstacle seemed to be the lack of hall sensor in the motor itself (just three phase wires coming out of it), but it didn't stop me. I bought SS41 halls which I knew worked well with chinese controllers and placed them in the motor assembly:

Image

Also in the picture you can see the 125deg.C termal protection that i glued with heat transfering glue.
Halls are placed 120 degrees apart form each other as the rotor has 14 poles (calculations based on this guide - http://mitrocketscience.blogspot.com/20 ... r.html?m=1).

To complete the package i bought the Hailong battery case and the KT controller that hides in the rail of the battery (https://www.aliexpress.com/item/KT-sine ... 4c4dxKxkHe)
Battery is 36V 10S5P.

Afted few hiccups with connections whole thing started spinning:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6SQxieZ ... gs=pl%2Cwn
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GIU7ixn ... gs=pl%2Cwn


Image

The issue i have right now is that with heavy acceleration the power cuts out - when sitting on a bike on heavy gear, giving it full throttle fast it jumps and cuts out immediately. I understand that it might have no power to move on heavy gear, but my other motor buzzes steadily trying to spin, and this configuration just cuts it out. It's not the battery cut out (I have the leds between the battery and the controller and these don't turn off). When adding throttle gently it moves, and drives like it should, only when giving it too much it just cuts out. Any ideas what's the problem?
I tested the hall sensors and they seem to be ok:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hkpx-kU ... gs=pl%2Cwn
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v9rCFiR ... gs=pl%2Cwn

Thanks for your help in advance and I will keep you updated on the progress of the project.

Richo27   1 µW

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Re: Bosch Perfomance Line Throttle Mod

Post by Richo27 » Apr 22 2019 4:04am

Very interested in what you are doing here. I have a Bosch performance line CX powered bike. As you said its a neat mid drive motor, in its stock form it puts out a decent amount of torque, but I would like a throttle as well and the option to run custom battery packs.

Gazoo   1 µW

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Re: Bosch Perfomance Line Throttle Mod

Post by Gazoo » Apr 22 2019 10:32am

It seems like all the Bosch motors can be modified, it just takes some work and voila - very happy with this setup so far.

uolihp   1 µW

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Re: Bosch Perfomance Line Throttle Mod

Post by uolihp » Jan 12 2020 5:27am

Hello Gazoo, I find your idea really great ! I am very interested in your work,
I would like to do something similar and if you have time to answer me I would have some questions for you.
- Do I understand that the hall sensors are glued? With what glue?
- How to find the exact position on the stator?
- I would like to install a programmable controller, if possible in Open Source, what are the parameters to know for the controller?
Thank you, if you have time to answer me ,
cordially,
Philippe

leffex   100 W

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Re: Bosch Perfomance Line Throttle Mod

Post by leffex » Jan 13 2020 4:13pm

Good work Gazoo!

You're kind of the first (at least) that I know of who have managed to do this!

Awesome!

I did use another controller on a bafang but it feelt jerky and I put down that project. One thought I had when I read about your story was that if you change highest voltage that the throttle is able to put out. Will this fix your problem or is the problem more of a physical nature like a clutch in the motor.
Salestech in an ebike store

leffex   100 W

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Location: Sweden

Re: Bosch Perfomance Line Throttle Mod

Post by leffex » Jan 13 2020 4:18pm

Nastrovia!

viewtopic.php?t=96492
Are all the hall sensors 120* apart? Above thread is hall sensor layout on a bafang. Shouldn't they be in like a group?

Image
Salestech in an ebike store

andrea_104kg   100 W

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Re: Bosch Perfomance Line Throttle Mod

Post by andrea_104kg » Jan 13 2020 5:30pm

why you don't use a sensorless controller?

uolihp   1 µW

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Re: Bosch Perfomance Line Throttle Mod

Post by uolihp » Jan 16 2020 12:16am

Yes Andrea, why not ? maybe a good idea?
I am not well informed, can we really use a controller without sensor, what are the disadvantages compared to a controller with sensor?
Do you know a good programmable controller without sensor? A link ?
Thank you very much and cordially :wink:

larsb   1 MW

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Re: Bosch Perfomance Line Throttle Mod

Post by larsb » Jan 17 2020 1:40am

@gazoo:Based on the pics your hall sensors are placed too deep? It just might me the pics but:

They should be on the surface of the stator laminations towards the magnets. Or facing the ends of the magnets

Revolt motors place the halls deep and the effect is that as soon as the current is increased the coil fields switch the hall sensor in the wrong time instead of the magnets switching the halls - you get a cutout due to hall error.

@andrea104kg: Sensored controllers are mostly useless for startup with load - not recommended. the halls should be fixed instead!

@leffex: Hall placement can either be 120 degrees mechanical apart or 120 degrees electrical apart. It does the same job. Electric degrees=(mech degrees)*(pole pairs no)

That this works is because it should be 120 degrees electrical between the sensors for almost all controllers, 120 mechanical is always same as 120 degrees electrical no matter how many magnet poles there are but the opposite is not true. There’s plenty of data here on ES or google it.
Ride on!

electric_nz   10 mW

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Re: Bosch Perfomance Line Throttle Mod

Post by electric_nz » Jan 30 2020 2:39am

Great idea. I’m guessing the nylon gear and heat generation would limit the power you could pump through it, but it certainly looks way overbuilt for 250W!

andrea_104kg   100 W

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Re: Bosch Perfomance Line Throttle Mod

Post by andrea_104kg » Feb 01 2020 7:59pm

this is a tsdz2 motor whith a sensorles controller (from pswpower) , its not very differnt from bosch.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OvpPC61ZaM0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=InSiMgWegt4
the problem under load are tipical of hub motor, it may happen that the controller does not understand the direction of rotation of the motor and there is a jerk starting effect. But a pedal stroke is enough to start the engine.
The central engines are much more multiplied than the hubs, and the minimum weight of the foot on the pedal is sufficient to start the engine

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