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Re: QS 3000w midmotor

Posted: Oct 26 2019 12:38am
by larsb
@Silverline: I’d like to see a plot of noload losses from zero to max rpm with a fully charged 96V battery. It will show if losses are getting too large. Would it be possible to get?

What controller do you use?

Re: QS 3000w midmotor

Posted: Oct 26 2019 2:03am
by SilverLine
I do not have a controller yet. Waiting on a vesc6 project. (Only max 20s)... But on YouTube, a user runs this motor on a 96v pack, and hit 150 kmh on his bike :shock:
https://youtu.be/AB5WWC_uYBA

Re: QS 3000w midmotor

Posted: Oct 26 2019 2:05am
by PITMIX
SilverLine wrote:
Oct 25 2019 5:55pm
Usually the heat is the problem...
About the heat, as there is no internal sensor if I put an external probe on the motor casing, what maximum temperature should I set to be safe?

Re: QS 3000w midmotor

Posted: Oct 26 2019 2:06am
by PITMIX
SilverLine wrote:
Oct 26 2019 2:03am
https://youtu.be/AB5WWC_uYBA
already seen previous pages

Re: QS 3000w midmotor

Posted: Oct 26 2019 10:07am
by Torti
These are the data from the engine.

Which does:

Leerlaufdrehzahl: 3800 U / min ohne Dämpfung, 6000 U / min mit Dämpfung.




Artikel: QS 3000 Watt Motor 138 70 h Mittelmotor
Motortyp : BLDC-Permanentmagnet-Innenläufermotor mit Hallsensor
Markenname: QS Motor, QSMOTOR
Motorkonstruktion: einachsig
Entsprechende Räder: 12-Zoll-Räder (Standard)
Magnethöhe: 70 mm, 40 Stück, 5 Polpaare
Statordurchmesser: 138 mm
Leistung: 3000 W
Nennspannung: standardmäßig 72 V
Geschwindigkeit: 100 km / h
Leerlaufdrehzahl: 3800 U / min ohne Dämpfung, 6000 U / min mit Dämpfung.
Maximales Drehmoment: Ca. 56n M ohne Untersetzungsfaktor, ca. 247n. M mit einem Untersetzungsverhältnis von 1: 4. 77
Untersetzungsverhältnis: 1: 4. 77 (Standard)
Maximaler Wirkungsgrad: 88%
Gleichstrom Batterie: Standby (72 V)
Spitzenbatteriestrom: 120A (72V)
Geschätzter Spitzenphasenstrom: 450A
Thermische Sonde: Nein Standard (KTY8 3 /122, wenn Sie brauchen, bitte die Verkäufer informieren).
Betriebstemperatur bis gegeben
Single Hall Plate mit wasserdichten Steckern
16 mm² Leiterquerschnitt (ohne Isolierschicht)
Hall-Sensor-Interferenzwinkel: 120 Grad
Wasserdichter Grad: IP54
Farbe schwarz
Nettogewicht / Bruttogewicht: 10,8 kg / 11,5 kg

Re: QS 3000w midmotor

Posted: Oct 28 2019 12:12am
by ZERONEST
Planning on ordering this to the UK.

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/3305635 ... 63f84Jjq7c

Anything I should know before I do?

Thanks

Re: QS 3000w midmotor

Posted: Oct 28 2019 12:49am
by larsb
Torti wrote:
Oct 26 2019 10:07am
These are the data from the engine.

Which does:

Leerlaufdrehzahl: 3800 U / min ohne Dämpfung, 6000 U / min mit Dämpfung.

Artikel: QS 3000 Watt Motor 138 70 h Mittelmotor
Motortyp : BLDC-Permanentmagnet-Innenläufermotor mit Hallsensor
Markenname: QS Motor, QSMOTOR
Motorkonstruktion: einachsig
Entsprechende Räder: 12-Zoll-Räder (Standard)
Magnethöhe: 70 mm, 40 Stück, 5 Polpaare
Statordurchmesser: 138 mm
Leistung: 3000 W
Nennspannung: standardmäßig 72 V
Geschwindigkeit: 100 km / h
Leerlaufdrehzahl: 3800 U / min ohne Dämpfung, 6000 U / min mit Dämpfung.
Maximales Drehmoment: Ca. 56n M ohne Untersetzungsfaktor, ca. 247n. M mit einem Untersetzungsverhältnis von 1: 4. 77
Untersetzungsverhältnis: 1: 4. 77 (Standard)
Maximaler Wirkungsgrad: 88%
Gleichstrom Batterie: Standby (72 V)
Spitzenbatteriestrom: 120A (72V)
Geschätzter Spitzenphasenstrom: 450A
Thermische Sonde: Nein Standard (KTY8 3 /122, wenn Sie brauchen, bitte die Verkäufer informieren).
Betriebstemperatur bis gegeben
Single Hall Plate mit wasserdichten Steckern
16 mm² Leiterquerschnitt (ohne Isolierschicht)
Hall-Sensor-Interferenzwinkel: 120 Grad
Wasserdichter Grad: IP54
Farbe schwarz
Nettogewicht / Bruttogewicht: 10,8 kg / 11,5 kg
I don’t see a single data that’s not already in the thread. Please read before you post.

Getting noload consumption at several points will show where/if the eddy current losses start getting too high since they grow exponentially with rpm.

Re: QS 3000w midmotor

Posted: Oct 28 2019 10:02am
by multifrag
ZERONEST wrote:
Oct 28 2019 12:12am
Planning on ordering this to the UK.

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/3305635 ... 63f84Jjq7c

Anything I should know before I do?

Thanks
Not related to the product, but due to shipping taking long time we have no idea what will be with brexit. Your parcel might be stuck at the port and not be allowed in due to no regulations if we go out with no deal.

The extensions has been approved, so order without worry.

Re: QS 3000w midmotor

Posted: Oct 28 2019 11:23am
by ZERONEST
multifrag wrote:
Oct 28 2019 10:02am
ZERONEST wrote:
Oct 28 2019 12:12am
Planning on ordering this to the UK.

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/3305635 ... 63f84Jjq7c

Anything I should know before I do?

Thanks
Not related to the product, but due to shipping taking long time we have no idea what will be with brexit. Your parcel might be stuck at the port and not be allowed in due to no regulations if we go out with no deal.

The extensions has been approved, so order without worry.
This was a concern haha :roll:

Re: QS 3000w midmotor

Posted: Nov 04 2019 1:08pm
by AviatorTrainman
Those of you who have ordered this motor, does it come with a controller? The product listing at http://www.cnqsmotor.com/en/article_rea ... r/873.html has a picture of a votol 100 but does not mention it in the description. Is this controller included with the $258 price? If so, does anybody know if that controller is enough for this motor? I'm converting a motorcycle and I'm concerned that a 100 (?) amp controller would not be enough.

Re: QS 3000w midmotor

Posted: Nov 04 2019 1:18pm
by DanGT86
The $258 is for just the motor. I'm not sure about the capability of the 100 controller. I believe the EM150 controller is about $200.

Re: QS 3000w midmotor

Posted: Nov 04 2019 1:39pm
by AviatorTrainman
Okay, good to know. Also, does anybody know the dimensions of the version with the new case? I mostly would like to know the bolt size and separation. Also, is the new one just the old version in a plastic case, or is it actually a different motor in some way?

Re: QS 3000w midmotor

Posted: Nov 04 2019 1:59pm
by larsb
Em100 is too small. I think you should get the em200.
0375C99B-1A2F-48C3-ABAD-EF3140784061.jpeg
0375C99B-1A2F-48C3-ABAD-EF3140784061.jpeg (63.86 KiB) Viewed 1001 times
It can take it, i’ve run it with an APT96600 controller at 600 phase amps.

Re: QS 3000w midmotor

Posted: Nov 05 2019 4:00am
by markz
Yea thats fine and dandy when you have powered tools. I went out and bought me a 18" breaker bar, 22mm socket and can't get the nut off the shaft. Even bent a few fan blades as I shoved a screwdriver in so it wouldnt spin.

Not sure what I am going to be doing now to get a gear on there to make a motor out of it.
End up with a #35 gear welded onto the alternator pulley.

If anyone is going to be going this route, take the alternator pulley nut off when its installed on the junkyard vehicle.



PITMIX wrote:
Sep 08 2019 12:27pm
yes I think it's tight with red Loctite. Normally I can disassemble the alternator pulleys like this without any problem.

Re: QS 3000w midmotor

Posted: Nov 05 2019 2:52pm
by Torti
I want to run my QS138 with a Kelly KLS7230S. Does anyone know if pins need to be replaced on the plug?

Re: QS 3000w midmotor

Posted: Nov 05 2019 5:53pm
by eee291
Nope, it's plug and play.
Also that controller is way underpowered for that Motor.

Re: QS 3000w midmotor

Posted: Nov 06 2019 8:05am
by Torti
but the wires of the cables do not match


which can 120a max 300A

Re: QS 3000w midmotor

Posted: Nov 07 2019 3:52am
by eee291
Torti wrote:
Nov 06 2019 8:05am
but the wires of the cables do not match


which can 120a max 300A
Could you clarify?
The hall sensor plug fits to all Kelly's, only the positive and negative have to be correct (purple and black on the Kelly side) withe red and black one the motor side.
The other three colors are irrelevant (blue yellow green).

Same goes for the phase wires, once you have them connected run the identify angle and you are good to go.

Also it's just 300A for the first minute or so, I'm using it with a 200A cont. Controller and I can barely get the motor warm to the touch 8)

Re: QS 3000w midmotor

Posted: Nov 07 2019 2:53pm
by Torti
then it would have to fit?

Re: QS 3000w midmotor

Posted: Nov 07 2019 4:40pm
by eee291
Looks good to me.

I guess you also have the temp sensor (white wire) not sure if that is plug and play with the Kelly as well since mine didn't have one.

Re: QS 3000w midmotor

Posted: Nov 08 2019 3:37pm
by Grantmac
I've been considering and I think there would be a very good market for a motor about 50-60% as wide as the QS1000. An IPM that can do 2-3kw peak weighing in around 2.5kg would be an awesome package for ebikes and the diameter is much more usable than the large Cyclone/LMX/D4500 motors. It wouldn't need as much reduction as the CYC but also probably couldn't run a single stage to the rear wheel which is borderline on the QS1000 anyway.

They seem to be going the other direction in terms of new sizes for their IPMs so its unlikely we'll see one, but a guy can dream right?

Re: QS 3000w midmotor

Posted: Nov 08 2019 4:00pm
by minde28383
Yes, it is unlikely to see some narrow motor any time soon. There lots of folks just give up and install long ones like D4500 and qs 3000w mid drive motors.

Re: QS 3000w midmotor

Posted: Nov 08 2019 4:32pm
by wjr
I just unpacked my QS 138 and Votol 15S kit.
Haven't done any tests yet (still packing batteries...), but at least I may contribute to the question of sprockets.
The sprocket type shaft appears to be a quite generic 20 mm 6teeth type which is used on many chinese motorbikes.
So you can fit many sprockets of this kind.

I want to electrify an old Kawasaki KL250.
Initially I planned to stay with the genuine 520 chain and rear sprocket.
So I orderded (and received) a bunch of those
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32888920457.html
"10T 11T 12T 13T 14T 15T 16T 17T 18T 19Tooth 520 20mm Front Engine Sprocket For Honda Lifan ZongShen ATV Quad Dirt Pit bike Buggy"

and I can confirm that THEY FIT on the shaft.

However, with a 520 chain I can only achieve 4.3 ratio with motorbike rear sprockets that match the Kawa hub.

So I decided to use 428 chain which is 1/2 x 5/16 ", also known as ISO 08 B-1 industrial standard chain.
I can find 53T rear sprockets on the motorcyle market which yield in 5.3 ratio, and I can get raw sprockets up to 100 teeth from indutrial part suppliers.

So I ordered some 428 front sprockets now from here, for less than 2 € each:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32815925231.html
"Front Engine 428# 10T 11T 12T 13T 14T 15T 16T 17T 18T 19T Teeth 17mm 20mm Chain Sprocket With Retainer Plate Locker"
the smallest with 10T
I'm quite confident that they will fit. I'll keep you informed.

So I think there is no need to remill the shaft or some sprockets for many cases.

Re: QS 3000w midmotor

Posted: Nov 08 2019 5:22pm
by minde28383
I searched and found ISO 08 B-1 industrial standard sprockets in 95 teeth but weight is 5.4kg. Cast iron, most of its weight will be lathed off of course.
http://www.kettentechnik.com/2011/09/12 ... -din-8187/ (picture bellow)

https://www.bearingsrus.co.uk/transmiss ... plex/4sr95 (price for reference)
This shop asks 60 pounds for such sprocket.

Second sprocket size is 114 teeth.

Industrial is an option but when you need to replace or change sprocket you need to mill / lathe it again.

Some time ago I found on ebay aluminium custom made, titled "universal aluminium sprocket.." with many teeth. Not sure if these are still accessible though.

Re: QS 3000w midmotor

Posted: Nov 09 2019 3:39am
by wjr
This is what I had as reference:
https://www.maedler.de/product/1643/161 ... abe-08-b-1
your example: 114 teeth, 9kg, 88 € (excl VAT)

quite some figures, admittedly - but a feasible solution.
Aluminum would be nice, sure, but I doubt that it will be cheaper.

You have to trade off the effort, cost and weight of a two stage drive with an additional shaft, bearings, sprockets, support.

What is your intended ratio?
With 10T front, you're over 1:11 . oops