Axiom: a 100kW+ motor controller

Electric Motors and Controllers
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emmgee   10 W

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Re: Axiom: a 100kW+ motor controller

Post by emmgee » Nov 20 2019 6:09am

The Axiom part starts at 13:15 in the video. Soooo good to see you together on the stage, deep respect and congrats!
Modified Scott Nitrous, 74V, MagicPieV2, waiting for Lebowski-Controller.
eScooter vRone, waiting for Lebowski-Controller and brushless motor.

mattsdominion   1 µW

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Re: Axiom: a 100kW+ motor controller

Post by mattsdominion » Nov 21 2019 8:00pm

Congrats guys! I joined this forum specifically because of the hackaday comp. I'd love to get my hands on one of these motor controllers as a beta tester ASAP!

marcos   1 kW

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Re: Axiom: a 100kW+ motor controller

Post by marcos » Nov 22 2019 10:15am

emmgee wrote:
Nov 20 2019 6:09am
The Axiom part starts at 13:15 in the video. Soooo good to see you together on the stage, deep respect and congrats!
The whole thing was an awesome meetup, and it was great to have the chance to finally have a team meeting, here are 4 glasses for maxi that didn't make it.
20191116_134321.jpg
20191116_134321.jpg (161.82 KiB) Viewed 2723 times
Btw I barely got there as my US visa arrived few minutes after we got the invitation to the event, kudos for my wife that handled all that visa paperwork and as usual ended up carrying motordrive stuff with me :) Also thanks to Eric from Luna that got us a place to stay and a car, both equally important if you want to visit L.A. Oh, and I got to experience some tesla M3 performance bursts, now that's a target!

Now back to the lab, where the updated Rev1 boards with higher isolation ratings and stronger filtering were waiting for me to test, along with a 100kW motor that needs some tuning plus some studying to do to get a canada visa for extra productive trips and polar bear sightings.
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Hackey   100 mW

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Re: Axiom: a 100kW+ motor controller

Post by Hackey » Dec 13 2019 10:33am

Hey marcos what is status of MTPA and flux weakning. I want to test switched reluctance IPM motor on this controller.

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john61ct   100 GW

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Re: Axiom: a 100kW+ motor controller

Post by john61ct » Dec 13 2019 11:42am


marcos wrote:Jump to page 11 for the latest hardware
There is no such thing as "pages" in the app. Just link to the actual post, or also give a post#


marcos   1 kW

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Re: Axiom: a 100kW+ motor controller

Post by marcos » Dec 14 2019 8:38am

Hackey wrote:
Dec 13 2019 10:33am
Hey marcos what is status of MTPA and flux weakning. I want to test switched reluctance IPM motor on this controller.
That branch is quite behind the latest master branch, and requires you to build both vesc firmware and vesc tool in order to have the features. FW still lacks a safety feature that slowly downramps Id current in a fault event. If the powerstage can withstand the BEMF generated at those high speeds it shouldn't damage anything, but in a fault the motor will be decelerated violently to base speed. If you can work in linux email me and I can help setting it up (I don't know how to compile vesc tool in windows).

MTPA should work well, the main inconvenience is that there isn't a way to autodetect Ld and Lq so you would have to measure those motor parameters. We are building 2 big dynos and I also got access to a couple of very small IPM motors that are handy to for MTPA tuning, currently sitting on my desk until I assemble the custom made controllers for that drive unit.
john61ct wrote:
Dec 13 2019 11:42am
marcos wrote:Jump to page 11 for the latest hardware
There is no such thing as "pages" in the app. Just link to the actual post, or also give a post#
There is a link right below the line you quoted, it ends in [...]#p1458465 which I think is pointing to the post. Doesn't it work in the app? btw, which app?
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Hackey   100 mW

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Re: Axiom: a 100kW+ motor controller

Post by Hackey » Dec 14 2019 9:12am

I have already setup qt and all stuff for firmware compiling and i am using ubuntu no issues.

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john61ct   100 GW

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Re: Axiom: a 100kW+ motor controller

Post by john61ct » Dec 14 2019 11:46am

marcos wrote:There is a link right below the line you quoted, it ends in [...]#p1458465 which I think is pointing to the post. Doesn't it work in the app? btw, which app?
Tapatalk. Yes I see now what you mean. Here's how it renders:
Screenshot_20191214-114440.jpg
Screenshot_20191214-114440.jpg (70.2 KiB) Viewed 2335 times
Maybe change it to "Click [here (link)] for the latest hardware"?

pjwalmsley   10 mW

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Re: Axiom: a 100kW+ motor controller

Post by pjwalmsley » Jan 03 2020 7:25pm

Congrats! Looks like a killer controller. Looking forward to seeing mass delivery/adoption and general improvements. :)

btdale   100 µW

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Re: Axiom: a 100kW+ motor controller

Post by btdale » Jan 03 2020 8:20pm

Hackey wrote:I have already setup qt and all stuff for firmware compiling and i am using ubuntu no issues.

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I just stumbled onto Qt and am jumping in. Did you find anything online to help you start building or did you start from scratch? I'm confident enough in building the visual aspect but starting communication with the motor/controller/bms seems enough not to mention control.

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pickmeup   1 µW

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Re: VESC-controller: Axiom hardware released!

Post by pickmeup » Jan 11 2020 3:43pm

bigdaveakers wrote:
May 11 2019 10:06am
Finally got chance to have a play with my board.....I wont post pictures as it is a bit 'lashed up' at the moment. My main concern is to get the resolver working.

Sadly it seems to be misbehaving :(

resolversnap.jpg

If the rotor is still it reads around 180 degrees, if I move it I get the trace shown. If I stop it goes back to 180 :(

Any ideas?

Also I took a big deep breath and tried to detect the motor parameters and got the message that inductance was 0 - probably going to need some help!
Dave have you had any luck on moving forward with the Outlander motor and inverter? I am looking at using this powertrain in my setup and I am very keen to see how you are getting on.

Hackey   100 mW

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Re: Axiom: a 100kW+ motor controller

Post by Hackey » Jan 18 2020 2:04am

Ok so now i am working on MID For my Bike. here is final layout i have tested it on display its working with ILI9486 3.5" display and Esp32 . now i need to get data from vesc over uart and we are good to go.
dash.png
dash.png (17.99 KiB) Viewed 1624 times

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jlcortex   10 mW

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Re: Axiom: a 100kW+ motor controller

Post by jlcortex » Jan 21 2020 12:28pm

Hello, someone has tested FF600R06ME3 from aliexpress?, prices are 1/4 the price at mouser! about 40€, is it possible?

Hackey   100 mW

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Re: Axiom: a 100kW+ motor controller

Post by Hackey » Jan 21 2020 12:46pm

jlcortex wrote:Hello, someone has tested FF600R06ME3 from aliexpress?, prices are 1/4 the price at mouser! about 40€, is it possible?
Yep they will work just fine. Actually they are used igbts from big factory machinery.

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marcos   1 kW

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Re: Axiom: a 100kW+ motor controller

Post by marcos » Jan 21 2020 12:59pm

jlcortex wrote:
Jan 21 2020 12:28pm
Hello, someone has tested FF600R06ME3 from aliexpress?, prices are 1/4 the price at mouser! about 40€, is it possible?
Most likely counterfeit, and most likely its not worth the risk if a total fire costs you more that what you saved in those IGBTs.

On other news, we got merged some features for better resolver support.

https://github.com/vedderb/bldc/pull/124

Now when you connect a resolver and configure vesc to use it you can type "encoder" in the vesc terminal and axiom will report stats for 4 failure sources:

* SPI error: when packets coming from the resolver interface have parity errors
* Loss Of Tracking: measured angle has >5° error
* Degradation Of Signal: measured angle has >33° error
* Loss Of Signal: >57° error, most likely a wiring issue or disconnected resolver.

In the code, if any of those error flags are set the resolver angle will be ignored.
If during the last second any of those error flags is asserted more than 5% of the time a system fault will be asserted. You can see in the GUI what was the error source (SPI, LOT, DOS, LOS).

The resolver hardware on board requires some manual tuning that involves measuring the sin/cos signal amplitude, if it is out of bounds its necessary to change 2 resistors to change EXC amplitude.
We have an application note that documents the resolver tuning and setup.

In a leaf motor typically we see pretty much zero resolver errors, sometimes a few tracking errors appear during extreme acceleration. We'll keep testing.

We are testing a Rev1 board now with better isolation ratings.
Another merge a while ago was FPGA binary compression because it couldn't fit anymore in the memory, and Benjamin now uses the compression library to speed up the firmware update process, its quite faster now.
Does your project need a high performance motor drive? Let's talk!
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HighHopes   10 kW

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Re: Axiom: a 100kW+ motor controller

Post by HighHopes » May 05 2020 10:44pm

last week we passed 100kW at 350V on the dyno. @lewbowski, you're right about 45deg being a pretty decent default value for timing adjust.

arlo gives a once over tour in the video: https://youtu.be/hYvuRghNGTc

Major Milestone achieved. :bigthumb:
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Lebowski   1 GW

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Re: Axiom: a 100kW+ motor controller

Post by Lebowski » May 06 2020 12:52am

HighHopes wrote:
May 05 2020 10:44pm
last week we passed 100kW at 350V on the dyno. @lewbowski, you're right about 45deg being a pretty decent default value for timing adjust.

arlo gives a once over tour in the video: https://youtu.be/hYvuRghNGTc

Major Milestone achieved. :bigthumb:
I think what Arlo1 does here is not what I do...

I have a 45 degree rotation in the error signals of Id and Iq, this is fundamentally not the same as a 45 degree rotation in the resolver output... with the rotation in the resolver signal you will not be FOC anymore as you also rotate the wanted Id and Iq. With the rotation in the error signals you have the 45 degree rotation in the control loop (giving you the stability) but not in the wanted Id and Iq (so you remain FOC).

I have this 45 degree rotation in the error signals for both sensored and sensorless modes.

Have you ever seen a rotation being applied to the error signals of Id and Iq ?

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Arlo1   100 GW

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Re: Axiom: a 100kW+ motor controller

Post by Arlo1 » May 06 2020 9:12am

Lebowski wrote:
May 06 2020 12:52am
HighHopes wrote:
May 05 2020 10:44pm
last week we passed 100kW at 350V on the dyno. @lewbowski, you're right about 45deg being a pretty decent default value for timing adjust.

arlo gives a once over tour in the video: https://youtu.be/hYvuRghNGTc

Major Milestone achieved. :bigthumb:
I think what Arlo1 does here is not what I do...

I have a 45 degree rotation in the error signals of Id and Iq, this is fundamentally not the same as a 45 degree rotation in the resolver output... with the rotation in the resolver signal you will not be FOC anymore as you also rotate the wanted Id and Iq. With the rotation in the error signals you have the 45 degree rotation in the control loop (giving you the stability) but not in the wanted Id and Iq (so you remain FOC).

I have this 45 degree rotation in the error signals for both sensored and sensorless modes.

Have you ever seen a rotation being applied to the error signals of Id and Iq ?
45 deg rotation in the error signals but not 45 deg in the NON ERROR signals?
Does your project need a high performance motor drive, battery charger or other power electronics developed? Let's talk!
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Leaf motor controller build. http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... 27#p963227
YSR build http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BRo8r5g4NBg
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Arlo1   100 GW

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Re: Axiom: a 100kW+ motor controller

Post by Arlo1 » May 06 2020 9:15am

OK everyone.

Here is the last 3 videos I have put together during testing. With more to come.

-Arlin





Does your project need a high performance motor drive, battery charger or other power electronics developed? Let's talk!
www.powerdesigns.ca
Leaf motor controller build. http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... 27#p963227
YSR build http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BRo8r5g4NBg
Never above 4.2v never below 2.7v EVER!!!
Support me on Patreon. https://www.patreon.com/user/posts?u=6842045
http://www.undergroundelectrics.ca/

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Lebowski   1 GW

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Re: Axiom: a 100kW+ motor controller

Post by Lebowski » May 06 2020 10:34am

Arlo1 wrote:
May 06 2020 9:12am
45 deg rotation in the error signals but not 45 deg in the NON ERROR signals?
I don't know if it is clear what I do, but I posted an explanation here :
viewtopic.php?f=30&t=104895&p=1553063#p1553063

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HighHopes   10 kW

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Re: Axiom: a 100kW+ motor controller

Post by HighHopes » May 06 2020 9:59pm

i have not worked a lot with IPM motors. a little with axial flux. but mostly SPM and separately excited. so this whole salience thing, the details of making it ACTUALLY work is mostly new to me. we were using a fixed 45deg angle just for quick test and got really good results, better than was expected. but we changed that to now use MTPA algorithm that does a better job
Does your project need a high performance motor drive? Let's talk!
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Do you like our work? Support Axiom to win the 2019 Hackaday Prize!

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Lebowski   1 GW

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Re: Axiom: a 100kW+ motor controller

Post by Lebowski » May 07 2020 7:52am

HighHopes wrote:
May 06 2020 9:59pm
i have not worked a lot with IPM motors. a little with axial flux. but mostly SPM and separately excited. so this whole salience thing, the details of making it ACTUALLY work is mostly new to me. we were using a fixed 45deg angle just for quick test and got really good results, better than was expected. but we changed that to now use MTPA algorithm that does a better job
An oscillation on the phase angle combined with looking at the 1st and 2nd harmonic (in the motor currents) of this oscillation?

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Re: Axiom: a 100kW+ motor controller

Post by marcos » May 07 2020 7:53am

Lebowski wrote:
May 06 2020 12:52am
I think what Arlo1 does here is not what I do...

I have a 45 degree rotation in the error signals of Id and Iq, this is fundamentally not the same as a 45 degree rotation in the resolver output... with the rotation in the resolver signal you will not be FOC anymore as you also rotate the wanted Id and Iq. With the rotation in the error signals you have the 45 degree rotation in the control loop (giving you the stability) but not in the wanted Id and Iq (so you remain FOC).

I have this 45 degree rotation in the error signals for both sensored and sensorless modes.

Have you ever seen a rotation being applied to the error signals of Id and Iq ?
I hear you there Bas, rotating the position sensor X degrees is a common hack to introduce some id current into the motor. The idea is to approximate the optimum torque trajectory (red trace) with just a straight line instead of the exponential trace.
mtpa.png
mtpa.png (19.05 KiB) Viewed 350 times

This breaks the FOC principles and I think d/q axis decoupling breaks as well so we disabled it for now.

In parallel with these tests at 100+kW we are testing the proper way to do this: implementing the MTPA trajectory in the firmware.
Well, proper for our particular FOC code, yours I think auto-aligns.

This MTPA code is working awesome on my bike and is under dyno testing. We had some early MTPA tests with poor results because both Texas and vesc had some minor math errors.
Does your project need a high performance motor drive? Let's talk!
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HighHopes   10 kW

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Re: Axiom: a 100kW+ motor controller

Post by HighHopes » May 07 2020 6:01pm

An oscillation on the phase angle combined with looking at the 1st and 2nd harmonic (in the motor currents) of this oscillation?
nothing that complicated, just textbook stuff. its meant to be open source afterall ;)
Does your project need a high performance motor drive? Let's talk!
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Do you like our work? Support Axiom to win the 2019 Hackaday Prize!

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