Leaf / leafmotor / leafbike high efficiency 1500w motor

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neptronix   100 GW

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Re: Leaf / leafmotor / leafbike 1500w motor

Post by neptronix » Mar 01 2015 8:12pm

A lot of people have PMed me, asking how wide the axle is.
It's wider than i thought. 8.5 inches / 215.9mm.
"Love and compassion are necessities, not luxuries. Without them, humanity cannot survive." - Dalai Lama

My first major build: 1.6kW 8T MAC motor on a Trek 4500.
The new all-arounder: Leafmotor 1500w @ 4kW on a Turner O2 full suspension.
The monster scooter: 20" eZee on a Cannondale Semi Recumbent.
Whipper-snapper: ? on a lightweight BikeE Semi Recumbent

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Re: Leaf / leafmotor / leafbike 1500w motor

Post by --freeride-- » Mar 02 2015 5:18am

I just got an answer from Leafbikes:

My Question:

"Hi Leafbike-Team,

I would like to order a Newest 48V 1500W Motor. But I need less rpm?
What windings are available for the high efficent 1500W model(LBM481500RN)?
'16*4 turn' = 731rpm?
'13*5 turn' = ??
...

Are there other slower versions available? Like 500rpm at 48V? What windings does this model have?

"

Answer Leafbike:
"Yes,we can make 500rpm.

700,600,500,400,300,200,100rpm.

We all can do it.

Only tell use rpm
."


So I would say, there are all kinds of windings available, we just need to ask. I will go for an 500rpm Version.

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Re: Leaf / leafmotor / leafbike 1500w motor

Post by crossbreak » Mar 02 2015 9:12am

if
16s*4 turn = 731 rpm @48V

then @48V
13*5 turn = 585 rpm
10*6 turn = 487 rpm
9 *7 turn = 418 rpm

you will never get a 500.00 rpm @ 48V motor. Simply not possible to get 0.574 turns on a coil. netronix ordered the 731 rpm one and got ~632 rpm no load @ 48 V

if
16*4 turn = 632 rpm @48V

then @48V
13*5 turn = 506 rpm
10*6 turn = 421 rpm
9 *7 turn = 361 rpm
32*2 turn = 1264 rpm

i'm keen to find out what you get. 13*5 sound about right for your 700c rim and 14s battery. Please measure no load current and rpm @ voltag using your CA as soon as you got it installed.
Edit: You can just enter "2778 mm" as "wheel circumference" in your Cycle Analyst Setup. Then 1 kph is 10rpm or 50kph=500rpm and so on.

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Re: Leaf / leafmotor / leafbike 1500w motor

Post by neptronix » Mar 02 2015 1:37pm

Cool, i look forward to see what you get out of the ~500rpm version. I hope you plan on giving it some real juice, unlike my piddly 3000W :)
"Love and compassion are necessities, not luxuries. Without them, humanity cannot survive." - Dalai Lama

My first major build: 1.6kW 8T MAC motor on a Trek 4500.
The new all-arounder: Leafmotor 1500w @ 4kW on a Turner O2 full suspension.
The monster scooter: 20" eZee on a Cannondale Semi Recumbent.
Whipper-snapper: ? on a lightweight BikeE Semi Recumbent

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Re: Leaf / leafmotor / leafbike 1500w motor

Post by ebikedelight » Mar 02 2015 5:22pm

Any idea on the wait time to receive a hub motor from them and shipping costs to U.S. ?

I think this leaf motor will be my next purchase .

I weigh 240 lbs and my 26" fat bike with battery weighs about 60 lbs . Id like to be able to about 30-40 mpg top speed, but have excellent power/ torque using a 48 volt battery and lyen 12 fet controller.

Any recomendation on which winding would best suit my needs ?

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Re: Leaf / leafmotor / leafbike 1500w motor

Post by neptronix » Mar 02 2015 6:54pm

ebikedelight wrote:Any idea on the wait time to receive a hub motor from them and shipping costs to U.S. ?

I think this leaf motor will be my next purchase .

I weigh 240 lbs and my 26" fat bike with battery weighs about 60 lbs . Id like to be able to about 30-40 mpg top speed, but have excellent power/ torque using a 48 volt battery and lyen 12 fet controller.

Any recommendation on which winding would best suit my needs ?
*sense of deja vu is deafening* :wink:

You know, i already tested the default winding, showed the speed of it on 48v, and gave an idea of how many amps it uses in video and in text on the 1st-2nd pages of this thread.. read it all. It will answer your question.
"Love and compassion are necessities, not luxuries. Without them, humanity cannot survive." - Dalai Lama

My first major build: 1.6kW 8T MAC motor on a Trek 4500.
The new all-arounder: Leafmotor 1500w @ 4kW on a Turner O2 full suspension.
The monster scooter: 20" eZee on a Cannondale Semi Recumbent.
Whipper-snapper: ? on a lightweight BikeE Semi Recumbent

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Re: Leaf / leafmotor / leafbike 1500w motor

Post by ebikedelight » Mar 02 2015 7:02pm

neptronix wrote:
ebikedelight wrote:Any idea on the wait time to receive a hub motor from them and shipping costs to U.S. ?

I think this leaf motor will be my next purchase .

I weigh 240 lbs and my 26" fat bike with battery weighs about 60 lbs . Id like to be able to about 30-40 mpg top speed, but have excellent power/ torque using a 48 volt battery and lyen 12 fet controller.

Any recommendation on which winding would best suit my needs ?
*sense of deja vu is deafening* :wink:

You know, i already tested the default winding, showed the speed of it on 48v, and gave an idea of how many amps it uses in video and in text on the 1st-2nd pages of this thread.. read it all. It will answer your question.

appreciate it, but many of us are not good with the technical jargin....heck, I dont even know how to program my LYEN controller even though I have the hookup cable to do it.

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Re: Leaf / leafmotor / leafbike 1500w motor

Post by neptronix » Mar 02 2015 7:13pm

There's tutorials out there for that. Just use the googles :)

https://www.google.com/search?q=infineo ... 8&oe=utf-8
"Love and compassion are necessities, not luxuries. Without them, humanity cannot survive." - Dalai Lama

My first major build: 1.6kW 8T MAC motor on a Trek 4500.
The new all-arounder: Leafmotor 1500w @ 4kW on a Turner O2 full suspension.
The monster scooter: 20" eZee on a Cannondale Semi Recumbent.
Whipper-snapper: ? on a lightweight BikeE Semi Recumbent

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Re: Leaf / leafmotor / leafbike 1500w motor

Post by ebikedelight » Mar 02 2015 7:14pm

neptronix wrote:There's tutorials out there for that. Just use the googles :)

https://www.google.com/search?q=infineo ... 8&oe=utf-8

Thanks..

what is shipping times for this motor..to U.S.

and shipping costs ?

I assume it is typical 36 spoke holes ?

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Re: Leaf / leafmotor / leafbike 1500w motor

Post by crossbreak » Mar 02 2015 7:21pm

shipping cost? link is on the first page. just have a look on their page. You dont want a course on "how I order from china" do you?

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Re: Leaf / leafmotor / leafbike 1500w motor

Post by ebikedelight » Mar 02 2015 7:32pm

crossbreak wrote:shipping cost? link is on the first page. just have a look on their page. You dont want a course on "how I order from china" do you?

I thought it would be just as easy for someone to tell the shipping cost and the time to get it.

The shipping fees on their page, is by kilogram, and isnt a clearcut price.

In the time you used to make your above post, you coulda told us the shipping fee :roll:

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Re: Leaf / leafmotor / leafbike 1500w motor

Post by neptronix » Mar 02 2015 9:05pm

If you've ever used an online shopping cart before, you should know that you are given a shipping quote after entering your address, etc.. just like on every other site.

Multiple people have asked me this. Come, on people. Don't crowd this thread about motor tech with details that are so easily figured out by yourself with a few clicks. I do not work for this company, but they should be paying me to be free tech support for them at this point.. :lol: :evil:
"Love and compassion are necessities, not luxuries. Without them, humanity cannot survive." - Dalai Lama

My first major build: 1.6kW 8T MAC motor on a Trek 4500.
The new all-arounder: Leafmotor 1500w @ 4kW on a Turner O2 full suspension.
The monster scooter: 20" eZee on a Cannondale Semi Recumbent.
Whipper-snapper: ? on a lightweight BikeE Semi Recumbent

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Re: Leaf / leafmotor / leafbike 1500w motor

Post by --freeride-- » Mar 03 2015 5:23am

crossbreak wrote:if
16s*4 turn = 731 rpm @48V

then @48V
13*5 turn = 585 rpm
10*6 turn = 487 rpm
9 *7 turn = 418 rpm

you will never get a 500.00 rpm @ 48V motor. Simply not possible to get 0.574 turns on a coil. netronix ordered the 731 rpm one and got ~632 rpm no load @ 48 V

if
16*4 turn = 632 rpm @48V

then @48V
13*5 turn = 506 rpm
10*6 turn = 421 rpm
9 *7 turn = 361 rpm
32*2 turn = 1264 rpm

i'm keen to find out what you get. 13*5 sound about right for your 700c rim and 14s battery. Please measure no load current and rpm @ voltag using your CA as soon as you got it installed.
Edit: You can just enter "2778 mm" as "wheel circumference" in your Cycle Analyst Setup. Then 1 kph is 10rpm or 50kph=500rpm and so on.
I just asked Leafbike, the 500rpm is no Load rpm. So I did some calculations, no load Speed on a 622x50 wheel is 68.4km/h. At worst case 421rpm it is 57.5km/h no load.

So I will be able to hit at least 50kph on a full Battery. That sounds good to me.

@ Neptronix: Sorry, this bike will be my daily commuter, build to last, so I plan to run 2500-3000W max. I am although using the pedals a lot. I am now running a 400W Setup ;-)


EDIT: I asked again, so I am getting the 13*5 Motor :-)

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Re: Leaf / leafmotor / leafbike 1500w motor

Post by teslanv » Mar 03 2015 8:21am

I managed to get out of them that the "standard" winding is a 16x4T.
They do not seem interested in offering any kind of dealer/bulk order pricing. So for now I have no plans to bring them into our stock supply. :|
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Re: Leaf / leafmotor / leafbike 1500w motor

Post by --freeride-- » Mar 03 2015 10:11am

I had to ask 10 times until the told me it was 13*5... "top secret"

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Re: Leaf / leafmotor / leafbike 1500w motor

Post by neptronix » Mar 03 2015 2:18pm

teslanv wrote:I managed to get out of them that the "standard" winding is a 16x4T.
They do not seem interested in offering any kind of dealer/bulk order pricing. So for now I have no plans to bring them into our stock supply. :|
That sucks.
They're cheap enough to buy in bulk and sea-ship out here and mark those babies up. The cost of the hub isn't much more than your usual ~80% efficient hub. I don't think that people would mind the markup, given that you're providing actual service that they can't do because of their language barrier. Most people are still forking out $300-$400 for last generation crystalyte motors still, to this day. I'm not a businessman, but i'd say that there's some meat on the bone there..

--freeride--, yeah.. they were difficult to talk with as well. Look forward to your 13*5 results.

As for me..

I think i'm not going to go with a 24" rim.. in many road riding tests, the motor does 40mph pretty solid on 65A, and that's exactly what i wanted. I will downgrade the rear 2.0 tire to 1.75" just to pick up a little torque, get a less saggy battery ( i'm still dropping 3v under load ), and load the triangle pack up so that i have a little weight on the front to prevent wheelies, then bump up the power a hair.. how i have things set up is pretty close to being perfect anyway.

Now that my 12FET controller is no longer in the triangle bag, it's not overheating.. so i'd say that it's safe to use a 12FET on this winding.. IF and ONLY if you use 3077 FETs. EM3ev sells such a controller, but lyen doesn't seem to do so.

Here are my current settings, that will give you a nice 2.66:1 phase:battery ratio on a 12FET 3077 controller. You'll get 65A battery current. I'm 186lbs and it just barely doesn't wheelie from a stall on this setting ( which is what i aim for - just barely enough power to not wheelie, but lots of acceleration in the straights ).

Copy and paste the following into a file named 'neptronix 12FET Leafmotor.asv' and load the resulting file up with the em3ev programming software to get your motor tuned just the way i have it:
3:EB312
80
30.0
41.5
0.5
99
0:Switch 3Spd X1 X2
50
100
120
1.0
2.0
1:Only Fake Indicate
1:Comm GND
1:
100
55
0:Low
1:Have
0:Ture
06
1:Speed2
100
2:Compatible
100
0:No
"Love and compassion are necessities, not luxuries. Without them, humanity cannot survive." - Dalai Lama

My first major build: 1.6kW 8T MAC motor on a Trek 4500.
The new all-arounder: Leafmotor 1500w @ 4kW on a Turner O2 full suspension.
The monster scooter: 20" eZee on a Cannondale Semi Recumbent.
Whipper-snapper: ? on a lightweight BikeE Semi Recumbent

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Re: Leaf / leafmotor / leafbike 1500w motor

Post by teslanv » Mar 03 2015 2:51pm

neptronix wrote:
They're cheap enough to buy in bulk and sea-ship out here and mark those babies up. The cost of the hub isn't much more than your usual ~80% efficient hub. I don't think that people would mind the markup, given that you're providing actual service that they can't do because of their language barrier. Most people are still forking out $300-$400 for last generation crystalyte motors still, to this day. I'm not a businessman, but i'd say that there's some meat on the bone there..
Leaf is charging more for the 35mm motors than I am paying for the MXUS 45mm motors with higher power ratings and similar efficiency. Same Lamination thickness and copper fill. I would have to charge $30 more on these Leaf Motors over the $320 I am charging on the MXUS motors. Not sure who is going to want to buy into that, simply for the savings of 5 lbs of weight on the Leaf motors.

I kinda want to put the MXUS and Leaf motors in a head to head test for efficiency. I think the MXUS is just as good as the Leaf, efficiency-wise. The MXUS obviously has it beat for total power.
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Re: Leaf / leafmotor / leafbike 1500w motor

Post by cwah » Mar 03 2015 2:56pm

teslanv wrote:
neptronix wrote:
They're cheap enough to buy in bulk and sea-ship out here and mark those babies up. The cost of the hub isn't much more than your usual ~80% efficient hub. I don't think that people would mind the markup, given that you're providing actual service that they can't do because of their language barrier. Most people are still forking out $300-$400 for last generation crystalyte motors still, to this day. I'm not a businessman, but i'd say that there's some meat on the bone there..
Leaf is charging more for the 35mm motors than I am paying for the MXUS 45mm motors with higher power ratings and similar efficiency. Same Lamination thickness and copper fill. I would have to charge $30 more on these Leaf Motors over the $320 I am charging on the MXUS motors. Not sure who is going to want to buy into that, simply for the savings of 5 lbs of weight on the Leaf motors.

I kinda want to put the MXUS and Leaf motors in a head to head test for efficiency. I think the MXUS is just as good as the Leaf, efficiency-wise. The MXUS obviously has it beat for total power.
Mxus is loosing short vs cromotor
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Re: Leaf / leafmotor / leafbike 1500w motor

Post by neptronix » Mar 03 2015 3:22pm

Yeah, that's kind of a funny situation, isn't it? it's just that the MXUS motor happens to be exceptionally cheap for what you get in contrast.. i wish 9C just made a thin-lam 30 or 35mm motor. They'd sell like hotcakes. MXUS is really dropping the ball in that regard. They could dominate the motor market for a while now if they did.

For now, your choice for high efficiency in a smaller motor is between a leafbike motor or something hilariously expensive like a falco or bionx. But i suspect that the leafmotor is more efficient than those. Or you could be a fool and buy a crystalyte :lol:

I suspect that this motor is more efficient within the power range i plan on using it anyway though, even if weight was no concern at all. Stator losses get larger, the larger the stator is, still. Maybe it's only a difference of 25-50 watts of power usage. I like the very light motor drag on this smaller stator too.
"Love and compassion are necessities, not luxuries. Without them, humanity cannot survive." - Dalai Lama

My first major build: 1.6kW 8T MAC motor on a Trek 4500.
The new all-arounder: Leafmotor 1500w @ 4kW on a Turner O2 full suspension.
The monster scooter: 20" eZee on a Cannondale Semi Recumbent.
Whipper-snapper: ? on a lightweight BikeE Semi Recumbent

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Re: Leaf / leafmotor / leafbike 1500w motor

Post by teslanv » Mar 03 2015 3:31pm

neptronix wrote:Yeah, that's kind of a funny situation, isn't it? it's just that the MXUS motor happens to be exceptionally cheap for what you get in contrast.. i wish 9C just made a thin-lam 30 or 35mm motor. They'd sell like hotcakes. MXUS is really dropping the ball in that regard. They could dominate the motor market for a while now if they did.

For now, your choice for high efficiency in a smaller motor is between a leafbike motor or something hilariously expensive like a falco or bionx. But i suspect that the leafmotor is more efficient than those. Or you could be a fool and buy a crystalyte :lol:

I suspect that this motor is more efficient within the power range i plan on using it anyway though, even if weight was no concern at all. Stator losses get larger, the larger the stator is, still. Maybe it's only a difference of 25-50 watts of power usage. I like the very light motor drag on this smaller stator too.
I am getting right around 4KW power levels at 50 MPH. Not sure where the 10KW at 57MPH is coming from, but I suspect it's from the start-up torque and not from top-speed/inefficiency. My Controller is Set to 50A Battery max, and 20S LiPo. I have smooth starts and great top end.
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Re: Leaf / leafmotor / leafbike 1500w motor

Post by macsboost » Mar 03 2015 11:20pm

Anyone else have success ordering a custom unit from them?

I keep trying to get a quote for a 1500W unit with 4mm^2 phase wires and a 5 turn motor for 500rpm with a 26" 100mm wide rim.

Still going back and forth. They keep trying to upsell me to the 2000W motor that is $495..

I dont need 2KW, I just want the 1500W unit.

I plan on running 15S.

ugh..

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Re: Leaf / leafmotor / leafbike 1500w motor

Post by diggler » Mar 04 2015 12:35am

sorry about your service.
They told me they can do it.
So don't let them scrimp yah.

There trying to kill two birds with one stone.
Up sale and no time customizing.
They also said they'd throw in a temp sensor.
So get on em.
GAS ELECTRIC FAT BIKE 49CC/3000W MXUS V1 18s Lipo 18 Fet BUILDING...http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... =6&t=65638
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Re: Leaf / leafmotor / leafbike 1500w motor

Post by neptronix » Mar 04 2015 1:13am

100mm wide rim from a china company? not gonna happen.
My experience with them is that they'll respond to an email or two, and go silent. Then you have to start the email again.

So, keep the order simple. Just ask for the 500rpm winding. Just get the bare hub. Do a custom spoke job and upgrade the wires to 12ga out the axle as i have.
"Love and compassion are necessities, not luxuries. Without them, humanity cannot survive." - Dalai Lama

My first major build: 1.6kW 8T MAC motor on a Trek 4500.
The new all-arounder: Leafmotor 1500w @ 4kW on a Turner O2 full suspension.
The monster scooter: 20" eZee on a Cannondale Semi Recumbent.
Whipper-snapper: ? on a lightweight BikeE Semi Recumbent

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Re: Leaf / leafmotor / leafbike 1500w motor

Post by diggler » Mar 04 2015 1:15am

Hmm I think I'll get one for the front of my fat bike.
5t, 4mm^2 wire, temp sensor, laced with 12g spokes to a 4x26"
I have a 72v 15,4410 controller new and collecting dust.
I just got two 60v controllers one with 15, 4410's and one with 15, 4110's.
I'm going to probably use the 60v 4410 controller on the 1000w 9c with recycled lappy's.

18s 45 battery amps 5t leaf motor up front. 3.4kw (if the controller will put out 45 amps, maybe only 40)
18s 65 battery amps 4t v1 mxus 3000 in back. 4.9kw

Make my bike go from 4.9kw to 8.3kw for 390usd shipped?
Hello torque city. (If I had smaller OD tires)

Getting the mxus back from the bike shop tomorrow.
Prob have it running in the bike next week.
I heard It's going to be 50deg F!
GAS ELECTRIC FAT BIKE 49CC/3000W MXUS V1 18s Lipo 18 Fet BUILDING...http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... =6&t=65638
600W CAPACITIVE SPOT WELDER BUILDING... http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... =2&t=66466
HOLANDIA BEACH CRUSER 1000W 9C ?TURN REBUILDING... no thread yet.
Next project will be 18" Iron Horse hard tail mid drive

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Turning over a Newest Leaf

Post by SprocketLocket » Mar 05 2015 9:48pm

Nep, please indulge me on some free tech advice. Your shared knowledge below will be (is) helpful to a lot of us.

I gotta admit I was shocked to read you use no rear brake. And you ride so fast, dude. Why is this, I'd like to know the detail? Were you incapable of getting a disk to work? Because if you can't do it: I can't. I look forward to the reason. But for now, I am shopping for a used or cheap mountain bike with CALIPER brakes. I feel I gotta have a rear brake.

I noticed you didn't buy their whole kit, but you apparently got yours shipped laced into a wheel (with some incredibly thick spokes). This option does not appear on their site. I assume you asked for it as a custom order. Could you please let us know how much that wheel upgrade ran you, and what you think about it (I know you had to get it trued, but otherwise looks nice). If you remember what your ship charge was, too. Speaking of which, yeah, those shipping fees are killer. They estimate "$39" on their site, but when you do an actual estimate, it's more like $100-$140, and IIRC, seemed to vary illogically [edit: that was actually Hallomotor's site]. Hallomotor does offer normal/necessary upgrades like freewheel and disk.. but that may not be the same efficiency as this Leaf.

BTW, was your rim a standard 24mm? Did it come with a "notch" cut into the axle for the wires, like the MAC?

Please expound on what you meant about how it's okay with a 12-FET controller, but 'if and only if' it uses 3077's. I don't know much about this, except I've always assumed 4110's were more powerful (since the number is higher), and EM3EV's more powerful controllers shift towards 4110's. Plus, EM3EV doesn't sell a 12-FET 3077 controller that can do 72V, but does with his 12- and 18-FET 4110'ers. Which of his controllers would you recommend (or would you ask him for a custom setup)? My batts could to do up to 72 or even 100V serial, so I'd like to be able to have flexibility with voltage, esp since I'd get a slow wind. I don't feel any desire to hit 30mph. I do want lots of torque for easy/efficient starting + off-road hills..

Here is what I am thinking. Please critique. I like EM3EV, and I like that his controllers are programmable and high quality (and have options). What do you think about the idea of skipping on LeafMotor's full kit, just getting a wheel+motor config like you did, then from EM3EV get a controller, throttle, ebrakes, disk, freewheel (he does sell these things separately), torque arms, and some complementary accessories as a separate purchase? The only downside it seems (for me) is the controllers are not sinewave. I'm tempted to get one of those AliExpress sine controllers, but am afraid about figuring out the phase wiring (the AliExpress listing says you may have to go through "30 combinations", though looks like cwah may have gotten it working with this, sans regen).

One more clarifying "MAC vs New Leaf" question. Are you saying that, on lower power ranges, let's say from 750W and below, that the New Leaf starts and accelerates as (or more) effectively and efficiently as a MAC? I know you kind of answered it before, I want to make sure, I'm having a little hard time believing it.. but want to. You're the dude to ask.

Thanks, man. Sorry to be an info hog, but I'm sure this'll help others a lot. Thanks very much for the axle width measurement (I was gonna ask for that too). That's awesome. This is the only motor I know of which will be at home equally on fat as well as normal bikes. The versatility makes it tempting. Other manufacturers should follow suit. And hey, some people could use that extra axle length as "pegs" for stunts ;) .
Last edited by SprocketLocket on Jul 09 2015 2:32pm, edited 2 times in total.

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