AVIAN featherweight mid drive

General Discussion about electric bicycles.
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Ecyclist   1 kW

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Location: San Diego, California

Re: AVIAN featherweight mid drive

Post by Ecyclist » Oct 27 2018 5:38pm

Finally, I will be installing bigger 80 mm motor on my build. I tested two different motors with a new more powerful ESCape controller and now I'm in the process of installing hall sensors in these motors. I made 120 deg. mounting boards out of FR4 and I installed sensors in them. I followed the recommendation for testing sensors before installation and learned that directional magnet is absolutely necessary to be able to do that. The magnet on the left is a good one. The other on the right will not work.
Magnets.JPG
Use a magnet on the left side.
Magnets.JPG (67.7 KiB) Viewed 2295 times
To test hall sensors I just used a 5V cell phone charger and multi-meter. All seven sensors that I ordered looked OK.
I also made hall mounting boards. This way, I will know for sure that hall sensors are placed exactly 120 deg. apart and concentric.
I will temporarily attach the board with zip ties so I can adjust angular location. After that I will use 400 deg. F silicone to fix boards permanently.
Hall sensors holders 2.JPG
Hall sensors boards.
Hall sensors holders 2.JPG (60.06 KiB) Viewed 2295 times
Don't expect from life to be easy and then it will be.
My builds:
Avian with hypocycloidal drive https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 2#p1318056
2016 GNG extreme drive https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 28&t=82252

artteth   10 mW

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Re: AVIAN featherweight mid drive

Post by artteth » Nov 06 2018 12:11am

Hi
With vesc6 like controller you don’t need hall sensors
With Skate board they need it in some cases but main benefit of vesc that it can work without halls and with your reduction vesc will speen motor more then enought to star with good power without sunc problems
Now you add 8 weak points to you build (3 hall sensors that can and will broke and 5 thin whires that will broke too in time )
What you really need if you want to Squeeze all power out of your motor is temp sensor
You can get really tiny temp sensors from laptop battery’s (I can make some photos how they look if you interested )
Don’t waste time on halls (it will work but your build isn’t really need it)
For example
I have friction drive 80100 130kv motor and on 12s battery top speed should be around 80kilometers per hour
So I have crazy low rpms and Erpms on low speeds and vesc6 can handle it no problem( for my setup halls give me liiitle better start but I steel don’t use it )

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Ecyclist   1 kW

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Location: San Diego, California

Re: AVIAN featherweight mid drive

Post by Ecyclist » Nov 07 2018 10:14am

artteth wrote:
Nov 06 2018 12:11am
Hi
With vesc6 like controller you don’t need hall sensors
With Skate board they need it in some cases but main benefit of vesc that it can work without halls and with your reduction vesc will speen motor more then enought to star with good power without sunc problems
Now you add 8 weak points to you build (3 hall sensors that can and will broke and 5 thin whires that will broke too in time )
What you really need if you want to Squeeze all power out of your motor is temp sensor
You can get really tiny temp sensors from laptop battery’s (I can make some photos how they look if you interested )
Don’t waste time on halls (it will work but your build isn’t really need it)
For example
I have friction drive 80100 130kv motor and on 12s battery top speed should be around 80kilometers per hour
So I have crazy low rpms and Erpms on low speeds and vesc6 can handle it no problem( for my setup halls give me liiitle better start but I steel don’t use it )
Thank you for your input.
So far, I'm very happy with my 63 mm motor with halls. I have absolutely zero problems with that set up. However, I think that going sensorsless might be a good idea. Once I build a new system with 80 mm motor, I will try it both ways. If I feel very little or no advantage using sensored over sensorless motor during take off on flat and uphill, I will drop sensors. It is R&D after all, and I like to try different options.
Don't expect from life to be easy and then it will be.
My builds:
Avian with hypocycloidal drive https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 2#p1318056
2016 GNG extreme drive https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 28&t=82252

ScooterMan101   10 MW

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Location: South of San Jose, California.

Re: AVIAN featherweight mid drive

Post by ScooterMan101 » Nov 07 2018 11:48am

Could you make a new thread just on this one Topic ?

Temp Sensors from a Laptop Battery and how to make one work with your e-bike motor .

With pictures and any important information.

Many people with all type of e-bike motors can benefit from this .

Thanks


artteth wrote:
Nov 06 2018 12:11am

What you really need if you want to Squeeze all power out of your motor is temp sensor
You can get really tiny temp sensors from laptop battery’s (I can make some photos how they look if you interested )
My first conversion ... Sold

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=71378&p=1077497&hil ... 1#p1077497

It's 2018 already, ( now 2019 ) lets get some real , improved e-bike / e-velomobile / e-motorcycle designs .

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Ecyclist   1 kW

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Location: San Diego, California

Re: AVIAN featherweight mid drive

Post by Ecyclist » Nov 23 2018 1:39am

ScooterMan101 wrote:
Nov 07 2018 11:48am
Could you make a new thread just on this one Topic ?

Temp Sensors from a Laptop Battery and how to make one work with your e-bike motor .

With pictures and any important information.

Many people with all type of e-bike motors can benefit from this .

Thanks


artteth wrote:
Nov 06 2018 12:11am

What you really need if you want to Squeeze all power out of your motor is temp sensor
You can get really tiny temp sensors from laptop battery’s (I can make some photos how they look if you interested )
This is not all that simple. Some controllers don't have option to measure temp. and if they do they need a specific type of thermistor and set up. Taking one out of a laptop is pointless because they are dirt cheap.
Don't expect from life to be easy and then it will be.
My builds:
Avian with hypocycloidal drive https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 2#p1318056
2016 GNG extreme drive https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 28&t=82252

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Ecyclist   1 kW

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Location: San Diego, California

Re: AVIAN featherweight mid drive

Post by Ecyclist » Dec 21 2018 12:34pm

After more than 2000 miles I had my first failure. The twisting force of freewheel pulled heads of three screws that hold the backing plate.
Backing plate.JPG
Backing plate.JPG (121.99 KiB) Viewed 1960 times
I increased screws to six and in the future build I will use 80% stronger screws.
New Backing plate.JPG
New Backing plate.JPG (142.76 KiB) Viewed 1960 times
Don't expect from life to be easy and then it will be.
My builds:
Avian with hypocycloidal drive https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 2#p1318056
2016 GNG extreme drive https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 28&t=82252

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madin88   1 GW

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Re: AVIAN featherweight mid drive

Post by madin88 » Dec 23 2018 6:17am

Ecyclist wrote:
Dec 21 2018 12:34pm
After more than 2000 miles I had my first failure. The twisting force of freewheel pulled heads of three screws that hold the backing plate.
I increased screws to six and in the future build I will use 80% stronger screws.
whats the size of the screws?

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Ecyclist   1 kW

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Location: San Diego, California

Re: AVIAN featherweight mid drive

Post by Ecyclist » Dec 24 2018 11:18am

10-32
Don't expect from life to be easy and then it will be.
My builds:
Avian with hypocycloidal drive https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 2#p1318056
2016 GNG extreme drive https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 28&t=82252

ScooterMan101   10 MW

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Location: South of San Jose, California.

Re: AVIAN featherweight mid drive

Post by ScooterMan101 » Jan 03 2019 2:46am

How is the 80 mm motor working out ?

Differences from the 63 mm motor in climbing ability and better top speed ?

I clicked on your link to that 80 mm motor from Alien Power and it says , Out of Stock.
What was the price in U.S. $ and shipping cost in U.S. $
My first conversion ... Sold

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=71378&p=1077497&hil ... 1#p1077497

It's 2018 already, ( now 2019 ) lets get some real , improved e-bike / e-velomobile / e-motorcycle designs .

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Ecyclist   1 kW

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Location: San Diego, California

Re: AVIAN featherweight mid drive

Post by Ecyclist » Jan 04 2019 11:55am

The Alien 80 mm motor is still sitting on my test bench.
I'm just to lazy to build a new kit and in the same time I'm very happy with my 63 mm motor.
I also race sailboats and have hundreds of other excuses. :lol:
I'll get to it eventually.
My Alien 80 mm motor was $163 and shipping $28. So, total price shipped to California was US $191.
Happy New Year.
Don't expect from life to be easy and then it will be.
My builds:
Avian with hypocycloidal drive https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 2#p1318056
2016 GNG extreme drive https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 28&t=82252

ScooterMan101   10 MW

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Joined: Oct 06 2012 4:45pm
Location: South of San Jose, California.

Re: AVIAN featherweight mid drive

Post by ScooterMan101 » Jan 04 2019 12:15pm

Happy New Year,

I am sure you are happy with your 63 mm motor ... However having run a Hub that can go up to 600 watts ( Q100c ) , and then the Mac 6 T that can go up to 1200-1400 watts ... I can assure you that you will be even more happier when you use the 80 mm motor.
I ride Super Sport Motorcycles so anything under 1200 watts is just not enough fun, the fun begins at 1200-1500 and above on a bicycle.
I have an interest in you using / or at least developing your system with the 80 mm motor since the other lighter weight mid drives like the BBS02/TSDZ2/etc. , I can tell by everyone that has run those small motors that only can use 20-25 amps that more power is needed. ( BBSHD is overpriced and too heavy )
We really need people to Develop RC systems, especially here in the U.S.

Isn't it a little to cold over the next month to race sailboats anyway ?
It certainly is up here in the SF Bay Area, Rain for the next 5 days starting tomorrow.
Ecyclist wrote:
Jan 04 2019 11:55am
The Alien 80 mm motor is still sitting on my test bench.
I'm just to lazy to build a new kit and in the same time I'm very happy with my 63 mm motor.
I also race sailboats and have hundreds of other excuses. :lol:
I'll get to it eventually.
My Alien 80 mm motor was $163 and shipping $28. So, total price shipped to California was US $191.
Happy New Year.
My first conversion ... Sold

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=71378&p=1077497&hil ... 1#p1077497

It's 2018 already, ( now 2019 ) lets get some real , improved e-bike / e-velomobile / e-motorcycle designs .

User avatar
Ecyclist   1 kW

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Joined: Apr 01 2016 10:53pm
Location: San Diego, California

Re: AVIAN featherweight mid drive

Post by Ecyclist » Jan 06 2019 2:02pm

I read ya. More power = more fun.
With 80 mm motor and VESC 6 that I have I will be running my kit at 2400 to 3000 W continues and 5000 W peak power.
Most of that at the wheel thanks to my very efficient transmission. That trany runs so well I can turn it backwards by hand. Also, it runs lukewarm so I'm going to omit cooling fins and add high quality oil seals. Lubricating transmission with oil is the only way to go.
Don't expect from life to be easy and then it will be.
My builds:
Avian with hypocycloidal drive https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 2#p1318056
2016 GNG extreme drive https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 28&t=82252

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Ecyclist   1 kW

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Location: San Diego, California

Re: AVIAN featherweight mid drive

Post by Ecyclist » Sep 22 2019 11:09am

A LITTLE UPDATE.
I'm two weeks away from my trips to Japan with my e-bike. The bike is still working fine and is ready to do about 1000 miles of mountainous terrain on island of Shikoku.
I was working on a single wheel trailer with suspension. The final result was not good. Even though I reinforced structure of the Ogio Rig 9800 bag the build was not rigid for heavy load (about 30 lb.).
Ogio 9800 - trailer.JPG
Ogio 9800 - trailer.JPG (156.52 KiB) Viewed 1339 times
After that fiasco I went with single beam reinforced rear rack. This one is made by Topeck and it is rated up to 15 lb. After some extra structural tweaking I can now sit on it. So, it will do fine.
Reinforced beam rear rack.JPG
Reinforced beam rear rack.JPG (215.78 KiB) Viewed 1339 times
Don't expect from life to be easy and then it will be.
My builds:
Avian with hypocycloidal drive https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 2#p1318056
2016 GNG extreme drive https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 28&t=82252

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Ecyclist   1 kW

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Location: San Diego, California

Re: AVIAN featherweight mid drive

Post by Ecyclist » Oct 08 2019 6:17am

Today is the final stage of my project.
In a couple of hours I will be flying to Japan with my build.
Two bags contain my e-bike, camping gear and everything I need for one month biking and traveling in Japan.
Bags flying to Osaka Japan.JPG
Bags flying to Osaka Japan.JPG (125.54 KiB) Viewed 1226 times
Don't expect from life to be easy and then it will be.
My builds:
Avian with hypocycloidal drive https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 2#p1318056
2016 GNG extreme drive https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 28&t=82252

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E-HP   100 kW

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Re: AVIAN featherweight mid drive

Post by E-HP » Oct 08 2019 8:51am

Ecyclist wrote:
Oct 08 2019 6:17am
Today is the final stage of my project.
In a couple of hours I will be flying to Japan with my build.
Two bags contain my e-bike, camping gear and everything I need for one month biking and traveling in Japan.
Bags flying to Osaka Japan.JPG
Safe travels! I hope you packed a GoPro.

Mongo1   10 mW

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Re: AVIAN featherweight mid drive

Post by Mongo1 » Oct 08 2019 12:18pm

Excellent effort (looks like the original rack only needed thicker gauge panels??)! Have a safe trip!

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nowholeself   100 mW

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Re: AVIAN featherweight mid drive

Post by nowholeself » Nov 02 2019 3:34pm

I love this thread. This project is impressive and a bit inspiring. How noisy is the cycloidal reducer? The small size is killer but the Tangent drive, as cool as it is, sounds like a weed-eater. Is that kind of noise just an unfortunate drawback to such a system, or is there some way to avoid it? Thanks in advance.

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Ecyclist   1 kW

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Re: AVIAN featherweight mid drive

Post by Ecyclist » Dec 03 2019 11:58pm

E-HP wrote:
Oct 08 2019 8:51am
Ecyclist wrote:
Oct 08 2019 6:17am
Today is the final stage of my project.
In a couple of hours I will be flying to Japan with my build.
Two bags contain my e-bike, camping gear and everything I need for one month biking and traveling in Japan.
Bags flying to Osaka Japan.JPG
Safe travels! I hope you packed a GoPro.
Thank you!
It was a fantastic trip. I made a little over 800 miles and circumnavigated the whole Shikoku Island.
I didn't visit all 88 temples, but I took some off-the-beaten track roads that were just spectacular.
On Shimanami Kaido.JPG
On Shimanami Kaido.JPG (163.96 KiB) Viewed 862 times
I met some great people and had an amazing experience.
Sumo wrestlers.JPG
Sumo wrestlers.JPG (234.34 KiB) Viewed 862 times
The bike did an outstanding job. I rode through some heavy rain, including typhoon that soaked me through. I rode steep mountain roads and long tunnels. My upgraded Shimano Ice Tech brake pads and 203mm rotors worked flawlessly. Everything worked as I was hoping or better. I took an extra lubricant for my transmission, but the bike was running so smoothly that I didn't use it.
Photo with two ladies who dedicate their free time to keep temple in impeccable shape.
At the temple.JPG
At the temple.JPG (278.08 KiB) Viewed 862 times
My biggest problem was one flat tire. That's all.
That spider is my witness.
Spider 1.jpg
Spider 1.jpg (105.2 KiB) Viewed 862 times
Eventually, I will get to installing the 80mm motor and push the kit much harder, but now I will enjoy Christmas and upcoming snowboarding trips as well as some sailboat racing. Life is hard.
Final note... please visit Japan. Don't go with an organized trip. Take a friend, if you have to, or better yet, go alone.
You will meet tons of people who will love to meet you.
Merry Christmas to you all.
Don't expect from life to be easy and then it will be.
My builds:
Avian with hypocycloidal drive https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 2#p1318056
2016 GNG extreme drive https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 28&t=82252

SlowCo   100 kW

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Re: AVIAN featherweight mid drive

Post by SlowCo » Dec 04 2019 4:42am

That looks like a beautiful trip!
And great to read that your very nicely built bike did so well. :thumb:

Mongo1   10 mW

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Re: AVIAN featherweight mid drive

Post by Mongo1 » Dec 04 2019 12:05pm

Ecyclist, glad you had a great time and the bike performing as well! Japan is a Wonderfull country to visit and I agree on going it alone if possible to interact with the people. Even though I was there on business, I travelled with Japanese friends who introduced me to their favorite places, etc. Good luck with your future upgrades!!

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