NOOBIE HERE. Electric Motor Kit Reccomendation?

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NOOBIE HERE. Electric Motor Kit Reccomendation?

Post by ElectricBikeNoob » Jun 30 2015 2:28pm

☺ Hi I am brand new to electric bike kits and this website. I know this question is probably asked all the time by noobies ( like me), but finding the right kit for me is too stressful and overwhelming because of so many technical reasons and abundance of info. Maybe this can help?

I am a 22 yr old man...5'11 in height.....about 180 lbs in weight....average physical shape for biking.

I currently live in Cleveland, Ohio and do not own a car. I wish to use my hybrid bike (Trek Verve 3) as my main transportation for around the whole area and more. Going to work, leisure trips, exercise rarely, etc. Roads and sidewalks (flat to somewhat steep hilly roads) will be used most. Dirt paths and grass too occasionally. Maybe light snow and rain too if possible. Virtually no extreme mountain biking or jumps at all.

I LOVE biking with a passion, but very long trips and long hills take a serious toll on me.

My price range is from $200 - $600. ($650 is the MOST) Need the best electric kit that has a throttle control and/or pedal assist mode.... A battery that can last around 20+ miles using motor only and enough power to blast through long, fair to steep hills with little effort on my part. Oh , I would like to still use my gears too maybe?

Any recommendations for a solid kit I should checkout? Mid drive or gearless hub? 90% road usage, 10% off road, steep hills, etc

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Re: NOOBIE HERE. Electric Motor Kit Reccomendation?

Post by Dauntless » Jun 30 2015 3:21pm

Solid kit. Just a bit hard to define. People like the Yescom, http://www.yescomusa.com/products/26in- ... -48v-1000w especially beginners. But some people like the idea of a better controller, a bit higher voltage, etc.http://www.aliexpress.com/item/72V-1500 ... 89288.html or better yet http://www.aliexpress.com/item/72V-1500 ... 95185.html

But that 20 mile range, you're talking some serious battery. A pair of these might work out. http://www.ebay.com/itm/48v-15ah-LiFePO ... 27e3804c60
Maybe just this one. http://www.ebay.com/itm/48v-30ah-LiFePO ... 27fd687b90

But that's for the stock 48v. If you went to 72v you're talking 4 of these. http://www.ebay.com/itm/36v-15ah-LiFePO ... 2a4fa21212

It's that range requirement that's the killer.

Oh, this is without ever trying your route, or knowing just how much blasting you really want to do.
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Re: NOOBIE HERE. Electric Motor Kit Reccomendation?

Post by ElectricBikeNoob » Jun 30 2015 4:33pm

Thank you for the reply. I will check out your recommendations now. One kit that has my eye is the Bafang BBS02 750 Watt. Will that be a good option for y usage?

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Re: NOOBIE HERE. Electric Motor Kit Reccomendation?

Post by markz » Jun 30 2015 7:05pm

Now I see the point in getting all fluffy over the same questions being asked over and over and over and over and over again.

Go Leaf or Mac, or geared, go 48V, buy a kit.

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Re: NOOBIE HERE. Electric Motor Kit Reccomendation?

Post by dogman dan » Jul 01 2015 5:39am

It's going to be very hard for you to do this on the budget you have in mind.

Cheap motor kits abound, but a battery with 20 mile range pretty much means lithium. You'll need 48v 15 ah at least, unless you are willing to ride around less than 15 mph.

Don't waste your money on a lead battery, unless you can keep your trips to less than 5-6 miles per charge.

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Re: NOOBIE HERE. Electric Motor Kit Reccomendation?

Post by lbz5mc12 » Jul 01 2015 10:22am

If anyone on here would be willing to fix my 36V 20Ah battery that still excepts a full charge but quit discharging for some reason, I'd give him my battery pack plus charger at no charge. He'd just have to cover the repair cost and shipping. Then he could get a yescom 36v 500W kit and that should give him the range. I was getting about 29 miles out of it when it quit working and I weigh about 300 lbs. Also I need to know if he's in the US for shipping purposes.

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Re: NOOBIE HERE. Electric Motor Kit Reccomendation?

Post by Dauntless » Jul 01 2015 6:43pm

I just don't think he can do his "Blasting" uphill with a 500w motor. I rather think that once you're getting more than a few miles from home you're moving out of electric bike range. People want to go faster as they go farther. Bur shifting to the idea of a real electric motorcycle probably isn't appealing to him.
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Re: NOOBIE HERE. Electric Motor Kit Reccomendation?

Post by teslanv » Jul 01 2015 7:04pm

Best value for a decent Hub is a Yescomusa kit. Get a 1000W Rear Kit.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/48V1000W-26-Rea ... 5672940991

Yescom's ebay user name is "xcceries"

Spend the rest on the battery.

You will need Multistar LiPo to get a battery to meet your specs in that price range.

Such as two of these multistars in series.

http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/stor ... ouse_.html

And let the "Don't recommend LiPo to noobs" responses commence... :P

But seriously. It can be done. You just need to educate yourself on WHY LiPo is cheap and more dangerous than various other Lithium chemistries.

BTW, the set-up I just listed will get you ~24MPH top speed and over 20-mile range on electric only.
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Re: NOOBIE HERE. Electric Motor Kit Reccomendation?

Post by ElectricBikeNoob » Jul 02 2015 12:50pm

teslanv wrote:Best value for a decent Hub is a Yescomusa kit. Get a 1000W Rear Kit.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/48V1000W-26-Rea ... 5672940991

Yescom's ebay user name is "xcceries"

Spend the rest on the battery.

You will need Multistar LiPo to get a battery to meet your specs in that price range.

Such as two of these multistars in series.

http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/stor ... ouse_.html

And let the "Don't recommend LiPo to noobs" responses commence... :P

But seriously. It can be done. You just need to educate yourself on WHY LiPo is cheap and more dangerous than various other Lithium chemistries.

BTW, the set-up I just listed will get you ~24MPH top speed and over 20-mile range on electric only.
Thank you for your help, all of you. Why is this kit so cheap in cost? (Not complaining at all). How reliable is this kit? I see it's 26inch wheel.....I think my Trek Verve 3 has 700cc wheels....

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NOOBIE HERE! BEST KIT + BATTERY FOR UNDER $700

Post by ElectricBikeNoob » Jul 02 2015 2:24pm

Okay, I am officially exhausted and stressed out at looking for a solid, reliable kit for cheap with a battery that can last around 20+ miles....

For a starter kit, I'm looking at a YESCOM 48V 1000W Rear Wheel E-Bike Conversion kit for about $248 off ebay. The rest I can spend on battery. $650-$700 TOPS for a whole kit. What is the best battery to give me 20+ miles per charge? Too many options...

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Re: NOOBIE HERE. Electric Motor Kit Reccomendation?

Post by Dauntless » Jul 02 2015 3:37pm

The kit I listed, the one teslav listed, same people, same hub/controller, the more extras the higher the kit price.

As for the battery, maybe the others don't quite catch what I did about your battery demands. "A battery that can last around 20+ miles using motor only and enough power to blast through long, fair to steep hills with little effort on my part," requires more than 20+ miles 'Unchallenged' shall we say. I'm anticipating that 16a won't quite do it for your more 'XGames' level of riding to be included. On any given day you might do more than the 10% hills you've listed.

The risk Teslav is referring to with "And let the 'Don't recommend LiPo to noobs' responses commence. . . ." is that you're going to put two of these 6s together to make a 12s, if that doesn't have the range you'll get two more to make 12s2p, all the while cooking up your own BMS, charger, etc. As the noob. (Perhaps the Electric Bicycle Network on cable will offer up a new TV Series, 'Leave it to Noobie.') Yes, those warnings are a good thing to keep in mind. I just think buying a whole battery pack, with the charger, is a safer way to go when you still don't know what you're doing. Or maybe someone will post a whole instructable for you on putting together the whole package with those cells.

The more you run your batteries dead, the sooner you'll need to replace them. So some overkill saves money in the long run. But I'll remind you, as Dogman says, 'Vent the box, but not toward your. . . .'

As for those fluffy over the same questions, this time didn't bring the same exact answers as previous, now did it?
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Re: NOOBIE HERE. Electric Motor Kit Reccomendation?

Post by dogman dan » Jul 03 2015 6:09am

Lipo for noobs is fine, provided, wait for it...

Never store or charge them where you would not build a fire. That's not a joke, it's serious. Very experienced guys have burned the house down with RC packs in the garage.

Sorry, but no way he's going to have 20 miles range, at full speed, on his budget. Unless he knows the guy at a local drill battery recycling place.

But some cheap 20c lipo, and a charger so slow it takes all day to put back 400 watt hours, and he can have perhaps 10 miles range on his budget. 6 of the 4s hardpacks, for 44v 10 ah. Then later, he can add more packs for range, and dump the cheap ass, shitty, slow as hell charger for something better.

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Re: NOOBIE HERE. Electric Motor Kit Reccomendation?

Post by teslanv » Jul 03 2015 9:48am

dogman dan wrote:
Sorry, but no way he's going to have 20 miles range, at full speed, on his budget.
I suppose that depends on your definition of "Full Speed" and "Blasting up hills". I don't think the OP ever stated his speed requirements. I pointed out that 24MPH was possible with this combination.

Here is a simulation using the Yescom (NineC 2807) motor and a pair of 16Ah Multistars.

Image

Slow down to 20 MPH and range goes up to 29 miles.

Image

Use the PAS that comes with the Yescom kit, pedal along and extend that range even further.

The total cost of the Kit is:
Yescom Kit: $250 (Shipped)
(2) 6S 16Ah Multistars: $240 + Shipping (Assuming they are in stock, which they aren't at the moment :? )
iCharger 106B+ $88 + shipping http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/stor ... duct=47686
Power Supply: $27 + Shipping http://www.lipoconnectionsolutions.com/ ... s-1262.htm
Total: $605 + shipping.
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Re: NOOBIE HERE. Electric Motor Kit Reccomendation?

Post by dogman dan » Jul 04 2015 5:52am

Unless stated otherwise, in my experience noobs expect to spend less time on a 20 mile ride than 2 hours, so I assume he wants to ride 25 mph or so.

Hell yeah he can make 20 miles on 44v 10 ah, It's about 400 watt hours. He just has to ride at 25 wh per mile or less, generally about 18 mph. 25 takes closer to 35 wh/mi. Or more, if hilly enough or windy enough.

As always, I base that estimate on more than 10,000 road miles, rather than sims. Not knocking the sim, just saying what I say is also backed up by real riding.

So he definitely can start with 6 Hobby king 20c 4s hardpacks, and be close to his budget.

Then when he's got some more money, add 3 more. 44v 15 ah should get him close to what he wants for range. Eventually, he may want a much better charger than a cheap 50w one, but again, he can get started on much less money.

But do be aware, you can burn your house down with the hobby batteries. Just not as safe as NMC or other types.

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Re: NOOBIE HERE. Electric Motor Kit Reccomendation?

Post by wesnewell » Jul 04 2015 10:54am

http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... 7#p1058597
Putting a bms on the 12s lipo pack would be the cheapest and easiest route to go. That 16ah 12s pack has 710wh. It takes ~21wh per mile at 20mph on level ground, no wind, so you'd get ~33 miles under those conditions. Slow down and you get more. Speed up and you get less. Add hills, you get less, so ride slower and pedal up the hills.
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Mongoose 26" Ledge 2.1 mtb bike $99, yescomusa.com 48V 1000W rear hub kit $200, Hua Tong 72V 40A controller $35, 10ah 24s lipo $217=~43mph, range=45 miles @ 20mph. 25K miles and still going strong.
Huffy Fortress 3.0 with MXUS 3000 4T motor, 24s lipo, 96V 60A controller. Total cost with extras <$700. Top speed ~50mph
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Re: NOOBIE HERE! BEST KIT + BATTERY FOR UNDER $700

Post by arkmundi » Jul 04 2015 11:44am

ElectricBikeNoob wrote:Okay, I am officially exhausted and stressed out at looking for a solid, reliable kit for cheap with a battery that can last around 20+ miles....

For a starter kit, I'm looking at a YESCOM 48V 1000W Rear Wheel E-Bike Conversion kit for about $248 off ebay. The rest I can spend on battery. $650-$700 TOPS for a whole kit. What is the best battery to give me 20+ miles per charge? Too many options...
OK to the yescom, as there has been very little related experience on the forum that would suggest negatives. I'll suggest another approach to batttery that may make you breath a sigh of relief. Most of the DD 3-phase motors on the market can take a range of voltages and are independent of capacity, which is another consideration. Hence its possible to build-out a smallish in-budget battery to be begin with. And over time, as money allows, adding more capacity. The trick to that is to take control of your battery make.

See my post at Buyin a battery pack for some choices. What you want to do is to carefully chose the cell of the battery make, based on the criteria that it is: 1> a safe chemistry to use on the road for an eBike, 2> has a relatively high C-rate, capable of sustaining the amperage draw of your motor/controller, and 3> has long cycle-life >1000+ cycles charging & discharging.

RC Lipo is none of that, so I generally recommend eBikers to avoid it in favor of LiFePO4 or LiMN or LiMNCo or similar set of chemistries that have been baked into the cells for automotive and/or consumer use. So choose a cell carefully at the outset and build it up over time.

Cells also have one other characteristic that is important to DIY'ers - and that's whether it enables easy construction with commonly available tools & components. You'll want to think that through as well. For instance, I recently recommended the Headway cells to my nephew because they are all the above, and less expensive to buy than the A123 AMP20 nanophosphate prismatic cells that I use. The Headway cells are LiFePO4 and have bolt&screw terminals and easy to use kit components for the DIY'er. Whole kits can be had on-line.

Think through the final design of your pack and then build it in pieces over time. For instance design for a 48V, 20ah battery, but build it in several increments, as money allows. In two increments, get the 10ah cells, serialize them and latter double that and put in parallel, for the final nominal voltage & capacity.

Then at the last, if you want and feel you need, add in a BMS. Running without a BMS is OK as long as you monitor the cells and don't over-charge or over-discharge them. BMS' are for those that want to automate it so they don't have to think about it. But you can add some Celllogs to your budget - they're not expensive - and monitor them to stay in a safe 90%<SOC<10% state of charge range.

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Re: NOOBIE HERE. Electric Motor Kit Reccomendation?

Post by markz » Jul 04 2015 1:53pm

How are the HobbyKing LiFePO4 battery bricks?
Another option is BMS Battery, they have a 72V 10Ah with a 50-100A BMS, looks promising for high powered motors like the mxus 3000w.

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Re: NOOBIE HERE! BEST KIT + BATTERY FOR UNDER $700

Post by ElectricBikeNoob » Jul 04 2015 2:51pm

arkmundi wrote:
ElectricBikeNoob wrote:Okay, I am officially exhausted and stressed out at looking for a solid, reliable kit for cheap with a battery that can last around 20+ miles....

For a starter kit, I'm looking at a YESCOM 48V 1000W Rear Wheel E-Bike Conversion kit for about $248 off ebay. The rest I can spend on battery. $650-$700 TOPS for a whole kit. What is the best battery to give me 20+ miles per charge? Too many options...
OK to the yescom, as there has been very little related experience on the forum that would suggest negatives. I'll suggest another approach to batttery that may make you breath a sigh of relief. Most of the DD 3-phase motors on the market can take a range of voltages and are independent of capacity, which is another consideration. Hence its possible to build-out a smallish in-budget battery to be begin with. And over time, as money allows, adding more capacity. The trick to that is to take control of your battery make.

See my post at Buyin a battery pack for some choices. What you want to do is to carefully chose the cell of the battery make, based on the criteria that it is: 1> a safe chemistry to use on the road for an eBike, 2> has a relatively high C-rate, capable of sustaining the amperage draw of your motor/controller, and 3> has long cycle-life >1000+ cycles charging & discharging.

RC Lipo is none of that, so I generally recommend eBikers to avoid it in favor of LiFePO4 or LiMN or LiMNCo or similar set of chemistries that have been baked into the cells for automotive and/or consumer use. So choose a cell carefully at the outset and build it up over time.

Cells also have one other characteristic that is important to DIY'ers - and that's whether it enables easy construction with commonly available tools & components. You'll want to think that through as well. For instance, I recently recommended the Headway cells to my nephew because they are all the above, and less expensive to buy than the A123 AMP20 nanophosphate prismatic cells that I use. The Headway cells are LiFePO4 and have bolt&screw terminals and easy to use kit components for the DIY'er. Whole kits can be had on-line.

Think through the final design of your pack and then build it in pieces over time. For instance design for a 48V, 20ah battery, but build it in several increments, as money allows. In two increments, get the 10ah cells, serialize them and latter double that and put in parallel, for the final nominal voltage & capacity.

Then at the last, if you want and feel you need, add in a BMS. Running without a BMS is OK as long as you monitor the cells and don't over-charge or over-discharge them. BMS' are for those that want to automate it so they don't have to think about it. But you can add some Celllogs to your budget - they're not expensive - and monitor them to stay in a safe 90%<SOC<10% state of charge range.
Dude, I am a NOOB. I understand none of this.....Just recommend a single battery that is under $600 lol

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Re: NOOBIE HERE. Electric Motor Kit Reccomendation?

Post by markz » Jul 04 2015 3:05pm

48V10Ah from BMS Battery $300 - C-rating is not good though. Cont. 20A. All their "bottle" type batteries seem to be that range.
Next, 48V10Ah, High C Rate, 30Acont./60Amax, $219 seems like a good deal! 15Ah $320.
The question is, how does one increase discharge rates? I remember reading if you start stacking in parallel, discharge rates increase, because you are "multipling" C-rate, by Ah. I do believe, so the cheaper 20A, could work.

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SOLID KIT and BATTERY recommendation?

Post by ElectricBikeNoob » Jul 04 2015 4:50pm

My weight: 180~ lbs. (81 kg)
My bike : Trek Verve 3 (Hybrid)
---------------------------------------------------------
Motor kit for 700cc (28-29inch tires) with throttle and PAS

Desired top motor speed: around 20 mph (32kph) on level ground
Desired top speed while pedaling: between 20-30 mph (32-48kph)
Desired range: About 20 miles (32 km) with mild pedaling at around 15 mph (24 kph)
Will probably commute on average about 8 miles (16 km) a day

Terrain: 92% street 8% off road
Flat to mild hills, mild dirt paths and grass
-NO extreme mountain biking-

Brakes: Doesn't matter, as long as it works great and bike stops in the end lol.

Budget: $800 MAX

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Re: SOLID KIT and BATTERY recommendation?

Post by Rodney64 » Jul 04 2015 7:35pm

I'd just like to know why you started another thread.

http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... =3&t=70673

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Re: SOLID KIT and BATTERY recommendation?

Post by ElectricBikeNoob » Jul 04 2015 7:37pm

Rodney64 wrote:I'd just like to know why you started another thread.
I'm new to forums period and don't know how they work lol.

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Re: SOLID KIT and BATTERY recommendation?

Post by Rodney64 » Jul 04 2015 8:23pm

ElectricBikeNoob wrote:
Rodney64 wrote:I'd just like to know why you started another thread.
I'm new to forums period and don't know how they work lol.

This would be my recommendation depending on what size triangle you have you might be able to go with the large triangle pack.
It maybe out of your price range but it would be worth saving for.


http://em3ev.com/store/index.php?route= ... uct_id=185

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Re: NOOBIE HERE! BEST KIT + BATTERY FOR UNDER $700

Post by teslanv » Jul 04 2015 11:23pm


Dude, I am a NOOB. I understand none of this.....Just recommend a single battery that is under $600 lol
LOL.
The last thing you will find on ES is a consensus. :wink:
Is your battery budget now $600 or is that still the budget for the whole kit AND battery?
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Re: NOOBIE HERE! BEST KIT + BATTERY FOR UNDER $700

Post by ElectricBikeNoob » Jul 04 2015 11:40pm

teslanv wrote:

Dude, I am a NOOB. I understand none of this.....Just recommend a single battery that is under $600 lol
LOL.
The last thing you will find on ES is a consensus. :wink:
Is your battery budget now $600 or is that still the budget for the whole kit AND battery?


Lol ....cut a noob some slack.....$800 MAX for whole kit

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