Thinking about electrifying my old freeride bike

General Discussion about electric bicycles.
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inh   1 mW

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Thinking about electrifying my old freeride bike

Post by inh » Jun 22 2013 6:59pm

After doing some pondering, I think my old freeride bike would make a great starting point for my first ebike build, especially since I haven't (ab)used it properly since 2004. it's got super thick horizontal dropouts with built in chain tensioners. the rear chainstays are nice and wide and the front fork is the same. I feel like it's begging for a Hubzilla and a 100A controller. If I can get enough range out of it to get my fat ass 17 miles to work then that's even better, but I'd be happy with something to blast around the neighborhood. One thing I'd really like is to keep the charger on board and recharge from the plethora of J1772 charge stations that are around here.

Here's some pics of the starting point. so many mismatched parts that were donated when I was building it or got replaced after I destroyed something:

Image
Not
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Not sure why I posted this yet since I don't have much money to get the parts this month, but I felt like sharing as I haven't seen any Morphine frames on here yet.

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mlt34   100 kW

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Re: Thinking about electrifying my old freeride bike

Post by mlt34 » Jun 23 2013 12:22am

Well good luck on your build, when you get around to it. Will this be your first ebike build?
Are you planning your first electric bicycle conversion? I wrote a book that teaches beginners everything they need to know about building their own ebike.
Then I wrote the book (literally) on building custom lithium batteries.
I also write for EbikeSchool.com, a site that does mainly how-to style articles and other informational write-ups. Check out our youtube channel for great how-to battery building videos.
Lastly, I run www.Vruzend.com, which sells solderless 18650 battery kits, 18650 cells, li-ion chargers, BMSs and more!

inh   1 mW

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Re: Thinking about electrifying my old freeride bike

Post by inh » Jun 23 2013 1:12am

mlt34 wrote:Well good luck on your build, when you get around to it. Will this be your first ebike build?
Yes it will be. Looking forward to it as I hope to apply what I learn to converting my CRX to electric with more of a DIY approach versus droppign in a warp9 like most do.

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dogman dan   100 GW

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Re: Thinking about electrifying my old freeride bike

Post by dogman dan » Jun 23 2013 6:00am

Looks like you have one of the things you need for a big rear humbotor, some meat around the dropouts. That makes fabricating a set of torque plates fairly easy compared to some lighter weight frames.

Carry the battery in the frame triangle of course.

Depending on your budget, you might want to go with a bit less power, with a cheaper smaller motor. Then actually use it for the commute. An affordable kit such as the Yes-USA 1000w 48v kit hits 30 mph at 48v. Bike commuting a lot will save you money, which then can go into the motorcycle you really want.

I'm not knocking the cromotor idea, but if you go big then you use up the battery fast, and then will be needing to stop to charge often. It is possible to ride the cromotor slower and have long range, but your right hand's little brain might not allow it.

The practical side of me says build the commuter. It will still be very fun to ride, 30 mph on a bike doesn't sound like so much, but 17 miles of that is quite a bit of riding compared to pedaling, where you slow down after just a few miles.

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spinningmagnets   100 GW

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Re: Thinking about electrifying my old freeride bike

Post by spinningmagnets » Jun 23 2013 6:48am

I'm not knocking the cromotor idea
I agree with dogman on this. The Cro is impressive, but...a recent build posted how he was using (I think) 72V and 80A or more. He was very pleased with the performance, but...he mentioned the motor wasn't even warm. In my mind this would be an unbalanced design for the application. The Cro is expensive and VERY heavy. It ran so cold, it could probably take double the amps, but where would you put all that battery on a bike that could put out 160A for any length of time?

Even if you wanted some headroom to add more power later, a slightly smaller motor would still be adequate, while allowing the overall weight of the bike to be more reasonable, and especially the weight out at the very back would be better.

The "Crown" hub motor is advertised as having about the same power output as the big 5304 motors, but at a lower weight, while still using a fairly wide 40mm stator. DD hubs seem to respond well to the oil-cooling mod. An oiled-up Crown sounds like a winner for your application...the kit listed in this pic is $1,095 (edit: this isn't a Crown, but it is a 40mm stator hub build http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... 75#p754965)
Image

I keep hearing that the benefit of the DD-hubs is the quiet operation and greater copper mass for big amps (unlike the geared hubs), and the rear mount leaves the frame completely free for large battery pack mounting options, along with rear hubs being able to use much more power than bicycle chains can survive (unlike some mid-drives).

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MadRhino   100 GW

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Re: Thinking about electrifying my old freeride bike

Post by MadRhino » Jun 23 2013 9:32am

It is not a Freeride bike, it is a DJ. The frame is stiff enough to build high power. It will lack the rear suspension if the streets are less than perfect. Nice triangle space to neatly fit 20s 2p of Lipo, enough to do your 17 miles target range very fast with a cromotor in a 24in wheel. I believe this frame can accept a 3.00 X 24 tire, if you run it low PSI it will help to smooth the ride. Chargers don't like the shake usually. Good luck with your build.
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inh   1 mW

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Re: Thinking about electrifying my old freeride bike

Post by inh » Jun 23 2013 8:02pm

MadRhino wrote:It is not a Freeride bike, it is a DJ. The frame is stiff enough to build high power. It will lack the rear suspension if the streets are less than perfect. Nice triangle space to neatly fit 20s 2p of Lipo, enough to do your 17 miles target range very fast with a cromotor in a 24in wheel. I believe this frame can accept a 3.00 X 24 tire, if you run it low PSI it will help to smooth the ride. Chargers don't like the shake usually. Good luck with your build.
It's definitely a freeride bike/frame. It was sold as a freeride frame when I bought and built it almost 10 years ago and tore up the streets and trails daily. It's never seen a single dirt jump :P

Cromotor in a 24 inch is what I want to go with, or perhaps with a motorcycle rim and a slightly wider tire.
dogman wrote: Depending on your budget, you might want to go with a bit less power, with a cheaper smaller motor. Then actually use it for the commute. An affordable kit such as the Yes-USA 1000w 48v kit hits 30 mph at 48v. Bike commuting a lot will save you money, which then can go into the motorcycle you really want.

I'm not knocking the cromotor idea, but if you go big then you use up the battery fast, and then will be needing to stop to charge often. It is possible to ride the cromotor slower and have long range, but your right hand's little brain might not allow it.

The practical side of me says build the commuter. It will still be very fun to ride, 30 mph on a bike doesn't sound like so much, but 17 miles of that is quite a bit of riding compared to pedaling, where you slow down after just a few miles.
My only concern is that a large portion of my commute is uphill and some of it is fairly steep:

Image

I weigh in at about 230 lbs with all my work stuff so I'm worried that a smaller motor might not have the torque to move me up that hill quick enough. It's a two lane highway with a 40mph speed limit, but no one drives it that slow. At least the morning ride would be at 4:30 AM when temps are nice and cool.

I'm thinking hard about a smaller motor now, though. I really like the Yes-USA kit, but I'd rather have slightly nicer/more modular parts than what it comes with. I think I'll grab a kit from ebikes.ca with either The Crown or one of the smaller motors and put it on my wife's 29er (but with the 26 inch rear wheel.) See how far I can get on that and if it's quick enough for my likes. If it works then I can do a similar setup on my bike and if it doesn't I know I need to go bigger next time, plus the wife now has a nice ebike to scoot her 120lb ass around on.

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Drunkskunk   100 GW

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Re: Thinking about electrifying my old freeride bike

Post by Drunkskunk » Jun 24 2013 10:49am

That would be a great bike to convert, but not for speeds above 30mph. You need a full suspension FR or DH for those speeds.

Yes, Banshee did call it a FR, but the Morphine is almost The ideal Urban/DJ frame. Without a rear suspension of a true FR/DH You won't be able to keep the rear wheel planted at higher speeds, and the impacts of potholes, cracks, and road debris will destroy the wheel, anything bolted to the frame, and probably your kidneys as well. But at low speed, the ridged extra stiff frame will give you more agility and potential for high power/high torque applications.
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dogman dan   100 GW

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Re: Thinking about electrifying my old freeride bike

Post by dogman dan » Jun 24 2013 2:33pm

Do bear in mind, Isn't the cromotor a 150mm motor? Bet that bike is 135mm wide.

I agree with the others, unless it's got wide dropouts, looks good for a 135mm motor with some balls, and the 40 mph club.

Just how steep is that steep bit? 10% is doable by ordinary cheap stuff, like a typical dd kit on 48v.

40 mph up a steep hill. Here is where we start the chant.

1 2 3, ready, " get a motorcycle" (in unison). It won't have the cops taking it away.

inh   1 mW

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Re: Thinking about electrifying my old freeride bike

Post by inh » Jun 24 2013 4:18pm

dogman wrote:Do bear in mind, Isn't the cromotor a 150mm motor? Bet that bike is 135mm wide.

I agree with the others, unless it's got wide dropouts, looks good for a 135mm motor with some balls, and the 40 mph club.

Just how steep is that steep bit? 10% is doable by ordinary cheap stuff, like a typical dd kit on 48v.

40 mph up a steep hill. Here is where we start the chant.

1 2 3, ready, " get a motorcycle" (in unison). It won't have the cops taking it away.

Good point about the cromotor width, I completely overlooked that. Looks like the crown is the biggest I can run with now, though. I'm glad I posted to get these kinda of things cleared up.


I'm not hoping to be able to do 40 mph up a hill, but it would be fun to have that much speed available on the flats. Playing with Google maps, it looks like the max grade is about 11%. Would the crown be way overkill for my weight and that grade hoping to do 20 mph?

MAGICPIE3FOCUSPOWER   10 kW

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Re: Thinking about electrifying my old freeride bike

Post by MAGICPIE3FOCUSPOWER » Jul 03 2013 2:04pm

Woowww nice bike!

I have a hardtail with HS3540 and top speed is 60 km/h.
But it's made for clean road, so very controllable... :D

But I will looking for a full suspension bike for offroad happiness :D
Nothing is perfect until I touch it...

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