First E-Bike build - Full suspension, geared & DD motor

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First E-Bike build - Full suspension, geared & DD motor

Post by shock » Nov 12 2011 8:25pm

Hello Fellow E-Bikers. So as of today I have embarked on my first ebike build. I've always wanted to build a bike from the frame up so I will slowly be building this bike over winter, starting with an Motobecane frame in XL size. Parts I have ordered so far are the E-biktkit.com rear geared hub, and half grip throttle. Right now things are more in the planning stage, but this thread will serve as a build log. I come from an electronics background, and recently got into brushless motor and LiPo battery R/C helicopter technology. After being astounded in what LiPo and brushless can provide in terms of power, I decided I wanted an electric bike to put around on during the summer months here in Michigan. I've been reading this forum for awhile, about different builds, approaches, wiring, construction, etc. I hope to have this bike running by may 2012. Here are some pics of what I have cooking so far. First one is a pic of the frame I am using as a starting point. Second one is an engineering drawing I am working on for component layout. Black is a fabricated aluminum case, red is controller, blue is Turnigy 6 cell, 5000 mah LiPo packs in a 12c2p arrangement. I'm looking to get 50v at 10mah for pushing the ebike geared hub.

I also want to have a 3 cell LiPo on board for central lighting and Android recharging :)

This bike frame was previously used in an eBike build so it came with nice custom torque arms already built.

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Last edited by shock on Mar 04 2012 2:11am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: First E-Bike build - Full suspension, geared hub motor

Post by nechaus » Nov 12 2011 9:10pm

thats gonna be sweet man...
good luck!!!
get ready to start powering past all the gas/petrol stations

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Re: First E-Bike build - Full suspension, geared hub motor

Post by sn0wchyld » Nov 12 2011 10:46pm

shock wrote:Hello Fellow E-Bikers. So as of today I have embarked on my first ebike build. I've always wanted to build a bike from the frame up so I will slowly be building this bike over winter, starting with an Motobecane frame in XL size. Parts I have ordered so far are the E-biktkit.com rear geared hub, and half grip throttle. Right now things are more in the planning stage, but this thread will serve as a build log. I come from an electronics background, and recently got into brushless motor and LiPo battery R/C helicopter technology. After being astounded in what LiPo and brushless can provide in terms of power, I decided I wanted an electric bike to put around on during the summer months here in Michigan. I've been reading this forum for awhile, about different builds, approaches, wiring, construction, etc. I hope to have this bike running by may 2012. Here are some pics of what I have cooking so far. First one is a pic of the frame I am using as a starting point. Second one is an engineering drawing I am working on for component layout. Black is a fabricated aluminum case, red is controller, blue is Turnigy 6 cell, 5000 mah LiPo packs in a 12c2p arrangement. I'm looking to get 50v at 10mah for pushing the ebike geared hub.

I also want to have a 3 cell LiPo on board for central lighting and Android recharging :)

This bike frame was previously used in an eBike build so it came with nice custom torque arms already built.

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Looks like a nice frame mate. mind if we get a look at the torque paltes?

Id suggest using a power adapter from a pc or a dc-dc converter to power your lights/phone etc... its much easyer in terms of only having to charge 1 set of batterys, and works like a charm 8)

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Re: First E-Bike build - Full suspension, geared hub motor

Post by kfong » Nov 12 2011 11:35pm

Good choice, I've been happy with my Motobecane. Where about in Mich?

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Re: First E-Bike build - Full suspension, geared hub motor

Post by edcastrovalley » Nov 13 2011 12:39am

I have to say that some of these well planned ebikes with launch dates 6 months out are some of the nicest builds out there. Especially for being a first build. Me, I was the exact opposite. I found an ad from a local guy selling ebike kits and a week later I drove over to his business, bought it, and had it installed it on my mountain bike 3 - 4 hours later. I guess I'm the impatient type. It actually turned out well. My only complaint was that my top speed was only 14 mph but I eventually fixed that problem. :mrgreen: Good Luck!

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Re: First E-Bike build - Full suspension, geared hub motor

Post by shock » Nov 13 2011 11:45pm

@kfong - I am in Harrison Twp, Near Metro Park.

@sn0wchyld - Attached are pics of the steel torque arms

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Re: First E-Bike build - Full suspension, geared hub motor

Post by kfong » Nov 14 2011 12:58am

Hey, that's close. I live in Sterling Heights. Do you do any trail riding? The only other local ebikers I know of are the two friends I've helped build an ebike for. In three years I think I've only seen 5 or 6 ebikers total. We'll have to get together next summer for some ebiking.

My Motobecane http://www.endless-sphere.com/forums/vi ... =6&t=12654

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Re: First E-Bike build - Full suspension, geared hub motor

Post by shock » Nov 14 2011 1:16am

I just read your entire thread on your motobecane build, great stuff in there! I'm surprised you didn't try a front mounted pack, something that mounts to the steering head. Looks like the frame you are using is a bit smaller too, I wanted an XL to fit all the amp hours I could in the frame :)

Cool that you are just a few minutes down the road, and know your stuff well, I'm sure i'll have some q's along the way and experienced opinions mean a lot to me. For the most part I've just been riding urban streets on a GT avalanche with a couple other buddies, but would like to get into some more trail riding. Up to this point I just took my ATV on trail's, but this ebike thing is going to open up some new opportunities! For the record I have never even seen a ebike or an ebiker to this day, so I'm glad to make my mark on Harrison Twp :)
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Re: First E-Bike build - Full suspension, geared hub motor

Post by shock » Nov 14 2011 1:20am

Also figured out it's possible to fit 12c3p config giving me 15 mah

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Re: First E-Bike build - Full suspension, geared hub motor

Post by kfong » Nov 14 2011 9:00am

I will with the new ebike I'm building this winter, you need a triple fork to be able to mount a pack up front secure enough for the trails.

Trail riding was the main reason I got into ebikes, we have a lot of fun single track. It takes it's toll on ebikes, so you really have to secure things well, have a balanced layout and reduce any loose wiring if you plan to do a lot of trail riding. I crash quite a bit during a riding season so I over build my battery mounts and practically everything else. My new ebike is going to be such a beast, that if things break then it's going to be a serious crash. More likely I will be the one broken.

I do have other ebikes for errands and street riding.

No problem helping out, I'm glad to see another local ebiker. You would think there would be more by now since it's so fun and useful.

Your build is going to be similar to my Motobecane, what geared motor did you end up getting?
shock wrote:I just read your entire thread on your motobecane build, great stuff in there! I'm surprised you didn't try a front mounted pack, something that mounts to the steering head. Looks like the frame you are using is a bit smaller too, I wanted an XL to fit all the amp hours I could in the frame :)

Cool that you are just a few minutes down the road, and know your stuff well, I'm sure i'll have some q's along the way and experienced opinions mean a lot to me. For the most part I've just been riding urban streets on a GT avalanche with a couple other buddies, but would like to get into some more trail riding. Up to this point I just took my ATV on trail's, but this ebike thing is going to open up some new opportunities! For the record I have never even seen a ebike or an ebiker to this day, so I'm glad to make my mark on Harrison Twp :)

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Re: First E-Bike build - Full suspension, geared hub motor

Post by shock » Nov 14 2011 10:14am

I purchased the geared hub from e-bikekit.com. Trying to make this bike ultra stealth :)

Did not purchase their controller though. I may end up purchasing their controller for simplicity on this first build, but wanted to do a little bit more research on controllers first. The controllers seem to be a well debated topic :)

I would love to make a 2WD ebike, but baby steps, lol. Don;t want to put the carriage in front of the horse if you know what I mean.

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Re: First E-Bike build - Full suspension, geared hub motor

Post by kfong » Nov 14 2011 10:57am

That would be the 350w version. I don't know much about that motor. Looks to be about the same speed as mine at 48 volts. Definitly lighter than mine. Should be great for riding around town and long distances. I put a 250w version on my friends bike. Super efficient, she can go a long ways on just 9ahrs.

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Re: First E-Bike build - Full suspension, geared hub motor

Post by shock » Nov 14 2011 5:30pm

Another goal of the project is very minimal weight, I went with the hub because it's only 7lbs and meets my performance expectations. The frame and shock are very light, and running single gear on front. I was almost debating making it a single speed, but that would limit where and how it can be ridden.
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Re: First E-Bike build - Full suspension, geared hub motor

Post by shock » Nov 16 2011 12:09pm

My wheel should be here today!

Test fitting stuff from my GT avalanche, Getting the "bike" part of the ebike done.

Setup the handle bars too, using an 8 speed shimano clicker, turned upside down, on the left. Leaves the right free for my twist grip.

I also put the front brake on the right side, and was able to arrange some carbon fiber risers for high speed tucks ;)
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Re: First E-Bike build - Full suspension, geared hub motor

Post by shock » Nov 16 2011 9:41pm

The hub motor is pretty sweet! It looks good, high quality, thick spokes and the wheel runs true. Bearings feel nice.

I was a bit disappointed that the rear cassette was not included, even though it is shown in the picture.

Also, NOTE TO THE DESIGN TEAM, next time around make the wires come out of the left side of the hub, instead or the right side where the gears and chain are!!

Also the phase wires are smaller gauge than I expected, but then again this is my first motor so I am just comparing it to some brushless RC stuff I have, and there are a lot of wires going through that axle.

Overall I'm pretty happy with it.

Since I have to place another order to ebike kit to get the cassette, Ill probably order a controller too.
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Re: First E-Bike build - Full suspension, geared hub motor

Post by shock » Nov 17 2011 9:14am

I'm pretty sure I am going to go with one of Lyens controllers. Hopefully there is some sort of standardization in the wiring color codes. The ebikekit controller for sale now is a "second gen" with different connectors than the wheel I received. I suppose that's why the wheel is in the discounted section.

So I'm off to a couple bike stores today to get a rear tire for this rim, a seat post, and hopefully a cassette.
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Re: First E-Bike build - Full suspension, geared hub motor

Post by shock » Nov 17 2011 1:02pm

Installed a matching bontranger tire, except the "triple puncture protection" 26 x 2.0 tire. I really like these H2's.

Also picked up this freewheel [not a cassette]. Looks to be good build quality plus it has an "ultra low" gear, which is great because I am only running a single 44t front.
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Re: First E-Bike build - Full suspension, geared hub motor

Post by kfong » Nov 17 2011 2:41pm

For an ebike it's the high gear you are after. The 11 tooth gear is the difficult one to find locally. You pretty much have to order them. The quality is low. I have yet to find a good quality freewheel with 11 tooth. I have to replace my current one after two seasons. Too much slop, causing erratic shifts. The small gear is so you can pedal at high speed. You rarely use the lower gears unless you are trail riding and have a breakdown. I'm normally on the 11 tooth most of the time and always on my 44t. Hard to decide if I'm going for the crap 11 tooth again, but since I like to pedal. I'll probably order it again.

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Re: First E-Bike build - Full suspension, geared hub motor

Post by shock » Nov 17 2011 4:54pm

This hub does regen.

But you have to push it backwards.

Cut the exposed ends off the wiring when I found out that when they touch, the wheel is very hard to turn in a regen fashion (shorted phase wires)

Ill probably never need the ultra low gear often, but if / when I find myself going slow without the assist, it will be there.

Interesting.. I just counted my highest gear and it's 13T..
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Re: First E-Bike build - Full suspension, geared hub motor

Post by shock » Nov 17 2011 5:34pm

kfong, where do you order the 11T from?
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Re: First E-Bike build - Full suspension, geared hub motor

Post by MadRhino » Nov 17 2011 6:51pm

Make it fool-proof, and I will make a better fool.
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Re: First E-Bike build - Full suspension, geared hub motor

Post by shock » Nov 17 2011 6:54pm

Theres no way a 9 speed is fitting on this frame / hub combo. The 7 speed **JUST** clears.

I'm going to give this freewheel pictured a go, got it local for $20 and the black "low gear" is pretty close in size to the hub which conceals it completely. Muhahahaha! ::stealth fighter::
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Re: First E-Bike build - Full suspension, geared hub motor

Post by MadRhino » Nov 17 2011 7:13pm

They have it 7 and 8 in that page. It's true the 11T freewheels are crap quality, but pedaling with a motor makes it essential. When you try it, you will find it is not high enough yet and start looking for big chainrings. For dirt riding Ebike, a Schlumpf HS drive is THE way to keep crank clearance with high speed pedaling ability, but it is quite expansive.
Make it fool-proof, and I will make a better fool.
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Re: First E-Bike build - Full suspension, geared hub motor

Post by shock » Nov 17 2011 11:04pm

My GT avalanche has an 11T on the cassette, although the front gear is not as large. You guys don't think I can pedal 25 mph with a 44T front and 13T rear?

**edit**

According to this handy calculator:

http://www.sheldonbrown.com/gears/

I'll be spinning the front crank 90 RPM to hit 25mph or 1.5 revolutions per second.

Anyways, thanks for the tip, i'll pickup one of the 11T sprockets in addition, since what you are telling me makes sense.
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Re: First E-Bike build - Full suspension, geared hub motor

Post by kfong » Nov 17 2011 11:16pm

I'm willing to bet you will be looking for that 11 tooth, unless you plan to let the motor do all the work. In any case, I hope you put antiseize grease on that freewheel before you installed it or it might be a pemanent part of the hub.

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