Can't Get #@!!@ Tire On Rim

General Discussion about electric bicycles.
Balmorhea   10 kW

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Re: Can't Get #@!!@ Tire On Rim

Post by Balmorhea » May 16 2020 12:09pm

MadRhino wrote:
May 16 2020 6:17am
Balmorhea wrote:
May 16 2020 12:32am

Pro tip: NEVER use tire levers to install a tire. If you really need leverage to get them on, then you will not be able to get them off later without destroying something...
We normally fit bicycle tires by hand alone but, do you know a single bike shop in the world that never use tire levers ? There are some (DH tires especially), that are PITA to fit on some rims without the levers.
I use levers to install once in a while, to save time. But even in the shop setting, I probably use them 50 times more often to remove tires than to install. Otherwise, I might miss problems like three rim strips stacked up in the wheel, or a tire bead that’s damaged from a previous blow-off.

Stiff DH tires and heavily armored tires that hold their beads wide apart can be a nuisance, and so can godforsaken “tubeless compatible” rims. But if you can get the wires into the center channel of the rim, and there isn’t something wrong with the tire-rim combo, you don’t need a pry bar to install. And when something is wrong and you do need it, it may be impossible to remove the tire without damaging the tire, the rim, or both.

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Re: Can't Get #@!!@ Tire On Rim

Post by larsb » May 16 2020 3:58pm

I’ve had same issue with impossible tires, that time due to low diameter. I could eventually force it on. If the rim is ok in size then i’d scrap the tyre. I didn’t and later failed to fix my flat in the middle of a 3 hour road bike session. Walking in bike shoes that far isn’t so nice :D

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Re: Can't Get #@!!@ Tire On Rim

Post by LeftieBiker » May 16 2020 6:19pm

larsb wrote:
May 16 2020 3:58pm
I’ve had same issue with impossible tires, that time due to low diameter. I could eventually force it on. If the rim is ok in size then i’d scrap the tyre. I didn’t and later failed to fix my flat in the middle of a 3 hour road bike session. Walking in bike shoes that far isn’t so nice :D
As soon as I determine that the tire is the problem I'll return it. It is a $40 tire!

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Re: Can't Get #@!!@ Tire On Rim

Post by amberwolf » May 26 2020 1:40pm

Did it turn out to just be the tire?

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Re: Can't Get #@!!@ Tire On Rim

Post by 99t4 » May 26 2020 2:59pm

Somebody asked this earlier but I didn't see the answer: "What exactly does it say on the side of your tires?"
Tire sizing standards are confusing and it matters to get the correct size.
Here is a well-respected info to help you make sure the tire you have will actually fit:
https://www.sheldonbrown.com/tire-sizing.html

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Re: Can't Get #@!!@ Tire On Rim

Post by 999zip999 » May 26 2020 4:22pm

stop if you can't get the tire on the rim if you get a flat you're not going to get the tire off the rim go get a new tire

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Re: Can't Get #@!!@ Tire On Rim

Post by LeftieBiker » May 26 2020 5:21pm

I will drag the tire into the sun and take some photos of the markings, but it's starting to look to me like I have a 27" rim. Running the tape measure up and over the axle I get something like 24.5" so unless the axle height adds a full 2" to the measurement it's bigger than 22.5." I'll carefully try the radius measurement again.

I really, really don't want to have to buy a rim and spokes, and pay a bike shop to transfer the motor and tire to them, in part because I'm sure they will screw up some part of the job and I'll still have no new wheelmotor for my bike. I still don't know why Ebay erased the listing from existence, but because they did there is no way to take action through them.

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Re: Can't Get #@!!@ Tire On Rim

Post by John in CR » May 26 2020 6:28pm

Soapy water is your friend. I can't imagine any bicycle tire being that difficult. You should try a 13" scooter tire. Since I found a tire repair shop nearby that does it for less than $3, I save myself the aggravation. The worker there loves me, because mine are so simple for him, and I talked him into the 50% price increase that pushed it to almost $3...plus I tip. I've fought with scooter tires wasting almost a full day once, because I was afraid to have a tire guy mess with a hubmotor. They use soapy water and pro tools that are super smooth from years of heavy use.

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Re: Can't Get #@!!@ Tire On Rim

Post by Balmorhea » May 27 2020 5:44am

LeftieBiker wrote:
May 26 2020 5:21pm
I will drag the tire into the sun and take some photos of the markings, but it's starting to look to me like I have a 27" rim. Running the tape measure up and over the axle I get something like 24.5" so unless the axle height adds a full 2" to the measurement it's bigger than 22.5." I'll carefully try the radius measurement again.
There are a bunch of bicycle tire sizes whose rims measure between 22.5" and 24.5" in outside diameter, but 27" is not one of them. Any 27 inch (ISO 630) rim will measure over 25" in outside diameter.

In between 26" MTB (ISO 559) and 27" (ISO 630), there are at least the following sizes:

650C (ISO 571)
Schwinn 26x1-3/4" (ISO 571)
650B (ISO 584)
26x1-1/2" (ISO 584)
27.5" MTB (ISO 584)
700D (ISO 587)
650A (ISO 590)
26x1-3/8" (ISO 590)
Schwinn 26x1-3/8" (ISO 597)
700C (ISO 622)
28" x fractional, but not 28 x 1-1/2" (ISO 622)
29" MTB (ISO 622)

Note that a fractional size, e.g. 28x1-1/2", is pretty much always a different rim size than a decimal size, e.g. 28x1.5".

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Re: Can't Get #@!!@ Tire On Rim

Post by LeftieBiker » May 29 2020 7:12pm

Among the numbers on the tire is "55-559" along with "75R-0007911" and "88R-002024". There is also a symbol that looks like "E+".

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Re: Can't Get #@!!@ Tire On Rim

Post by 99t4 » May 29 2020 10:35pm

OK, that helps. 55-559 Translates to common 26x2.17 tire, which is what you thought you bought, correct? Designed to fit a compatible rim. Look at this diagram:
Image
(Thanks to sheldonbrown.com)
That dimension "bead seat diameter (BSD)" should be 559mm (22 inches), as ES member Balmorhea stated in his/her first post in this thread. Means your rim should measure 559mm (22 inches) BSD for the tire to fit.
So now you get to measure the BSD of your rim, since as you stated there are no descriptive markings or stickers on your rim.

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Re: Can't Get #@!!@ Tire On Rim

Post by LeftieBiker » May 29 2020 10:40pm

Thanks. I've done radius measures, and attempted to do circumference measures. None of them was less than 22.5" for the diameter, and a few were more like 23-23.5".

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Re: Can't Get #@!!@ Tire On Rim

Post by 99t4 » May 29 2020 10:44pm

LeftieBiker wrote:
May 29 2020 10:40pm
None of them was less than 22.5" for the diameter, and a few were more like 23-23.5".
Is that the BSD measurement?

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Re: Can't Get #@!!@ Tire On Rim

Post by LeftieBiker » May 30 2020 1:05am

99t4 wrote:
May 29 2020 10:44pm
LeftieBiker wrote:
May 29 2020 10:40pm
None of them was less than 22.5" for the diameter, and a few were more like 23-23.5".
Is that the BSD measurement?
I was using the edge of the bead, yes. The axle prevents a real, direct diameter measurement.

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Re: Can't Get #@!!@ Tire On Rim

Post by LeftieBiker » May 30 2020 2:35am

Assuming that this rim is on the tall end of "26 inches" what tires will fit it? I'd like both designation and brand/model recommendations. I ride 95% on pavement, 5% on dirt roads and paths. I ride in Winter, but not usually on snow and ice. I try to avoid rain, but don't always succeed, so an aggressive road tread that will work in mild off-roading would be best.

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Re: Can't Get #@!!@ Tire On Rim

Post by Balmorhea » May 30 2020 4:28am

LeftieBiker wrote:
May 30 2020 2:35am
Assuming that this rim is on the tall end of "26 inches" what tires will fit it? I'd like both designation and brand/model recommendations. I ride 95% on pavement, 5% on dirt roads and paths. I ride in Winter, but not usually on snow and ice. I try to avoid rain, but don't always succeed, so an aggressive road tread that will work in mild off-roading would be best.
What rim is it? If it’s some garbage Chinese no-name rim with equally suspect spokes, why not start over?

Did you ever determine whether you’re actually dealing with a 27.5” rim?

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Re: Can't Get #@!!@ Tire On Rim

Post by LeftieBiker » May 30 2020 5:35am

Balmorhea wrote:
May 30 2020 4:28am
LeftieBiker wrote:
May 30 2020 2:35am
Assuming that this rim is on the tall end of "26 inches" what tires will fit it? I'd like both designation and brand/model recommendations. I ride 95% on pavement, 5% on dirt roads and paths. I ride in Winter, but not usually on snow and ice. I try to avoid rain, but don't always succeed, so an aggressive road tread that will work in mild off-roading would be best.
What rim is it? If it’s some garbage Chinese no-name rim with equally suspect spokes, why not start over?

Did you ever determine whether you’re actually dealing with a 27.5” rim?
The motor I need is laced into this rim. The bike has had no spoke or rim issues in 2 years with these rims. The 26" tire fit one whole sidewall into the new rim - just not both - so it is likely not 27.5". I don't want a wheel building project for which I have no skills or stamina. I just want to get a good tire on the rim, and the wheel on the bike.

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Re: Can't Get #@!!@ Tire On Rim

Post by 99t4 » May 31 2020 6:40pm

LeftieBiker wrote:
May 29 2020 10:40pm
None of them was less than 22.5" for the diameter, and a few were more like 23-23.5".
Is that the BSD measurement?
[/quote]

I was using the edge of the bead, yes. The axle prevents a real, direct diameter measurement.
[/quote]

If that means you measured the BSD (as shown in the diagram above) then your rim is what is commonly known as 27.5, which has the ISO size of 584mm which = your measured 23". That would explain everything, wouldn't it? A 26" tire won't fit a 27.5" rim! Don't waste any more time trying.

You would need a 27.5" tire and tube for this rim. Which may or may not fit inside the bike frame.

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Re: Can't Get #@!!@ Tire On Rim

Post by LeftieBiker » May 31 2020 7:52pm

Looking at the diagram again, I have no idea how I could measure the actual BSD, as the ends of the measurement area would be on nondescript places outside the rim. I measured from the tallest points on the rim, as that is where I could catch one end of the tape, and see clearly the other end. Also, I did mention that I could get one sidewall on the rim, which I guess precludes it being a 27.5. At this point I'm going to measure the "holes" in the tires I have, and try the tire with the largest one.

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Re: Can't Get #@!!@ Tire On Rim

Post by LeftieBiker » May 31 2020 9:51pm

Ok, the BSD diameter is about 3/4" less than the rim measurement I did (3/8" x 2), making it about 22.5" I guess. Maybe 22.75". I also measured the 'mounting holes' of the tires I have on hand, and while several were less than 22" two of them were 22" or slightly more: the skinny Continental and...wait for it...the Schwalbe I couldn't mount.

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Re: Can't Get #@!!@ Tire On Rim

Post by 99t4 » May 31 2020 11:24pm

LeftieBiker wrote:
May 31 2020 9:51pm
Ok, the BSD diameter is about 3/4" less than the rim measurement I did (3/8" x 2), making it about 22.5" I guess.
22.5" = 571.5mm, the rim could be a 650 C size (571mm BSD) which is getting quite rare, makes no sense.

At this point, just take the tire and rim to your FLBS and see what they say.

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Re: Can't Get #@!!@ Tire On Rim

Post by LeftieBiker » Jun 01 2020 12:25am

Heh. If I had a FLBS the rim would be there. What we have is bike shops a 30 minute drive away, who are backed up for weeks and charge an arm and a leg for any real work. They also tend t not sell electrics. I'm going to try to mount a softer compound tire that looks like it has a lot of flex, using the bike tire mounting tool I got from Ebay. If I fail, then it's off to an unfriendly distant bike shop.

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Re: Can't Get #@!!@ Tire On Rim

Post by Balmorhea » Jun 01 2020 12:49am

LeftieBiker wrote:
Jun 01 2020 12:25am
Heh. If I had a FLBS the rim would be there. What we have is bike shops a 30 minute drive away, who are backed up for weeks and charge an arm and a leg for any real work.
I doubt they'd charge you much to tell you what size wheel you have. There wouldn't be a charge for that at my shop.

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Re: Can't Get #@!!@ Tire On Rim

Post by LeftieBiker » Jun 01 2020 2:25am

I doubt they'd charge you much to tell you what size wheel you have. There wouldn't be a charge for that at my shop.
No, but I'd really rather not drive for an hour just for that info. I'm still hoping to get ONE of my #@!@!! tires on the thing...

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Re: Can't Get #@!!@ Tire On Rim

Post by markz » Jun 02 2020 8:37pm

Balmorhea wrote:
Jun 01 2020 12:49am
I doubt they'd charge you much to tell you what size wheel you have. There wouldn't be a charge for that at my shop.
Maybe just a tip, which tip is it. Monetary tip or a tip of the hat. Good customer service either way.

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