help with powervelocity controller

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mrcashback   10 mW

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help with powervelocity controller

Post by mrcashback » Apr 27 2020 4:35am

i have a controller i bought in 2017 and never hooked up, trying to get it working, but failing, cant recall details but i bought the biggest that was available at the time, maybe 15kw im thinking and based on prior messages i sent i believe i had to have a 48v minimum

it has a sticker that say rShunt 1.14 mOm

a black module that says "reachfar" which i think is the bluetooth module, though, the two cables that blug into it are labled "alarm" and a gps reciever and alarm connectvinto that black module

ive downloaded the app, hooked it up to a 48v power supply, and nothing?

no bluetooth signal, no wheel movement.

before i plugged the battery in, if i spun the mottor manually, the alarm chirped sadly but doesnt seem to do that now.
any ideas?

the black module that i think is BT feels like its a little warm but i could be dreaming about that

doesnt seem to be any lights or any other signs that its on/off or otherwise

would love to get this thing working if any1 has any ideas???
Last edited by mrcashback on May 06 2020 12:08am, edited 1 time in total.

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E-HP   100 kW

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Re: how to use powervelocity bt controller?

Post by E-HP » Apr 27 2020 1:27pm

mrcashback wrote:
Apr 27 2020 4:35am


doesnt seem to be any lights or any other signs that its on/off or otherwise

would love to get this thing working if any1 has any ideas???
do you have battery voltage going to the ignition connection?

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Re: how to use powervelocity bt controller?

Post by 999zip999 » Apr 27 2020 4:08pm

You have two red wires that's a ignition they need to hook your switch or you can short them.

mrcashback   10 mW

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Re: how to use powervelocity bt controller?

Post by mrcashback » Apr 27 2020 7:45pm

ok, so out the main silver unit, I have:
- Red/black/blue/green/yellow - heavy guage, I assume these are for the motor and power input

green, black, red - labled throttle

blue, black, green, yellow, red - unlabled goes to a connector

dark blue, white, red, yellow, green - labled CA to a connector, im guessing cycle analyst

black and yellow - labled cruise

Brown and black - abled brake

A single red wire with a banana clip fitting unlabled

a white wire that's chopped off and unlabled

theres a pair of plugs that are both labled "alarm"
one is black and red (thes are piggy backed onto a seperate heat shrink wrapped module)
the other is pink brown orange
these both are plugged into the smaller black plastic box


Off the seperate black box theres;
- a grey cable that goes to a connector that has a black and red wire going into the heat shrink wraped module I noted above

- two brown cables to an unlabled clip

- an orange, blue, yellow (which plugs into the orange brown pink on the main unit)

Theres also a green lose wire that looks like an antennae wire


At a guess from noting above comments, I would think to short the lone red wire to +'ve power input?
or maybe the 2x brown terminals?

I cannot find a pair of red wires, any suggestions based on the above??

mrcashback   10 mW

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Re: how to use powervelocity bt controller?

Post by mrcashback » Apr 27 2020 8:47pm

ok, scratch that above - i nonected the lone red to power and now have a bluetooth connection.

The app says "new firmware available please update" - it doesnt seem to read anything, how do i update?

When i click "update now" I just get a "please try again" message

If i try read in the program or settings it says "oops"

I've tried updating again about 50x this morning closing and restarting the app, recconecting bluetooth each time, is there a trick to it?

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MadRhino   100 GW

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Re: how to use powervelocity bt controller?

Post by MadRhino » Apr 28 2020 1:08am

The software does require an internet connection, in order to update.

This software was defective for me on IOS. I did update with success then, but still wouldn't access all the functions. And, since I was not satisfied with the power of the controller anyway, I’ve let it collecting dust on a shelf.
Make it fool-proof, and I will make a better fool.
Current bikes
Street:
Trek Session 10 mod. Variable geometry. 70mph
Dirt:
Santa Cruz V10. 50mph

mrcashback   10 mW

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Who's in Adelaide to get me set up?

Post by mrcashback » Apr 28 2020 3:18am

Who's in Adelaide that can get my build completed and up and running?
I'm running DJ Distancing & the Pandemic Pushbike, (you adelaide peeps may have already heard of this) and trying to get my guy some power up front, but failing!

If anyone local can help out with prompt service, we'll be happy to plug the carp out of your business across our socials (happy discuss deeper endorsement deals too on any relevant businesses, but that's another discussion)

Here's what I have and I'll list my failings:
Image
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I cannot get the powervelocity controller to respond - i can connect via bt, it tells me to update firmware, but that fails - i cant seem to get motor to do anything, and controller app tells me oops, and other signs of failed anything.
This is a 2017 purchase, never installed or attempted used untill now, im guessing somewhere around 15kw capacity

Hub Motor described as: 5000w Electric bike Motor
1x 19inch moped wheel with 5000w motor
Spec. for the 19inch 5000w ebike motor wheelRated Power: 5000W
Voltage : 48V-120v
KV : 9.3kv
Max torque : > 190N.M
Efficiency : > 90%
Hall sensor : yes, have two sets, one is for spare
Temperature : Yes
Drop out : 147mm


Throttle was described as: 24-72V eBikeTwist Throttle Speed Throttle HalloMotor Twist Speed Throttle Electric Scooter ebike Throttle Grip Accelerator

I was never able to press the front forks in properly so will need that done
I butchered the brakes and cables, the hand grips & cables should probs be replaced before i ride it
freewheel rusted out needs replacing


Who can help me get this show on the road quickly without killing my budget completeley?

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MadRhino   100 GW

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Re: Who's in Adelaide to get me set up?

Post by MadRhino » Apr 28 2020 4:12am

There are some ES members in Adelaide. Not sure if any of them is reading this section of the forum. You might want to check the member map, although few of them had registered on it.
https://www.google.com/maps/d/edit?mid= ... Jwxw8Mdz3o

Still, until you can find someone nearby to do it for you, I believe that you shouldn’t give up.

Your batteries: From pics I guess they are in a series for 48v 12A/h. For max 30A supply.
They need to be fully charged, to eliminate as much as possible the possibility that voltage could be lower than controller LVC actual setting. Even then, I hope that you realize that they are not up to the task for the power of this controller. They will run, but settings will need to be lowered to 20A continuous, 30A peak.

Check, and try phases and halls color matching combos. Check throttle matching pos, neg, signal. Check controller 5v supply on hall wire red. Unplug ebrakes for now, if you have any.

Contact powervelocity for software update. They might have changed the web address, or you might have to re-install the software from a new version link.

Good luck. Most who have a problem setting up their ebike, find a solution if they persist trying.
Make it fool-proof, and I will make a better fool.
Current bikes
Street:
Trek Session 10 mod. Variable geometry. 70mph
Dirt:
Santa Cruz V10. 50mph

mrcashback   10 mW

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Re: Who's in Adelaide to get me set up?

Post by mrcashback » Apr 28 2020 6:27am

Thankyou - yes, I will deffiniteley keep persisting untill I locate a local, but the realisation that someone else already in the know could probably do it far quicker than I could, means I'm happy to hand over the reigns.

I didnt realise that these batteries werent really up to the task, I was of the understanding that as long as I had 48v, I was good, but I guess no?
I at this point wont be using the full potential of the motor, and will be limiting it to down around the 500w mark, possibly lower for the interim, what I'm planning on using it for already attracts an abundance of police attention, so it may even have to be a 250w job for now at around 5A - a more dedicated custom battery was going to be a later job, I just found a more iminent usage need.

Yes I will be using them in series for 48v, but would finding a way to fit a 5th battery be more desirable? I was going to try increase the total V in time, just wanted to get it up and running on as little as possible at first

I Did try switching through the colour matching combos for each different brand motor on the phase wires, I'd not hooked up the halls (i assume this doesnt matter) I have no ebrakes atm, but will check to see if there is a 5v output on that red hall wire. what would it indicate if there is not??

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MadRhino   100 GW

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Re: Who's in Adelaide to get me set up?

Post by MadRhino » Apr 28 2020 8:00am

The controller, once switched on, must feed 5v to the controls and hall circuits. Then, plug the halls and make sure the throttle is plugged correctly.

What OS are you using to connect the controller BT? Cell phone? Android or Iphone? Computer?
Have you contacted powervelocity for the latest sofware link?

Mine had software problems, but I got it running right away with the proper hall and phase combination. I just couldn’t change the settings. After I upgraded the software, I got some access to settings but partial only. Normally, this should be solved now, if someone is still working on it.
Make it fool-proof, and I will make a better fool.
Current bikes
Street:
Trek Session 10 mod. Variable geometry. 70mph
Dirt:
Santa Cruz V10. 50mph

mrcashback   10 mW

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Re: Who's in Adelaide to get me set up?

Post by mrcashback » Apr 28 2020 8:57am

i sent an email to power velocity and asked on thier own forum. I actually purchased the controller off this site, so pm'd the seller here too, but given the covid restrictions im not anticipating any fast replies from anyone not currently working.

I've tried using a couple of android phones and an ipad.
one android device says fw is up to date already at version 1. but the other two say it needs to be upgraded to 1.24 and then fail to upgrade.
The ipad doesnt seem to have a button to upgrade, but other parts of the app seem to be functional where they aren't on the android version (just the site/forum support links) none appear to be able to read or write settings unfortunateley, so im guessing theres a trick to it.

I havent tried computer, but not sure how i would go about that.
The website suggests theyre still being made with upgrades obvious since my purchase and a plan for a newer model in the works too, but, how fresh that info is i dont actually know

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Sunder   100 MW

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Re: Who's in Adelaide to get me set up?

Post by Sunder » Apr 29 2020 2:50am

Bluetooth can be pretty picky for anything that was designed for serial output, then had bluetooth added to make it wireless (i.e. anything on an eBike). If not being able to get onto the app is your main problem, I'd see if the manufacturer has a usb or serial cable.

Also, dont assume that you don't need halls. Many controllers will go to a "fault" state if it detects anything odd. Like a totally zero volt throttle. (Most throttles will return donething like 0.5v at 0% throttle, so the controller knows its there)

I had a BMS with a wonderful feature that it wouldn't turn on thd Bluetooth module, if the battery was in a fault state. Of course, it was a programmable BMS, and had been programmed to a bigger battery, so when I attached it to mine, the voltage was too low and there were cells "missing". No problem, I'll just use Bluetooth to... oh wait. Yes, I had to build a temporary bigger battery to get the Bluetooth module to turn on, so I could program it for a smaller battery.

Plug everything in as if you were expecting it to work first go, then diagnose from there. With a mulitmeter if you can't get into the App.

Good luck finding a local to help. There are heaps of helpful people on this forum. But I gotta say though, if you're paying in exposure, you probably want to at least narrow down the problem you're having, as a lot of people don't like taking on open ended projects, where some of your parts may be faulty, or you're missing something etc.
eBike: Q100H on 16S with Phaserunner FOC Controller
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eCar: Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV... Warramty expired. Still not game!
eHouse: 6.2kw On-grid solar with battery backup coming soon!

After 5 builds, the best advice I can give, is start with high quality products. I prefer http://www.ebikes.ca

john61ct   100 GW

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Re: Who's in Adelaide to get me set up?

Post by john61ct » Apr 29 2020 3:29am

"paying in exposure" LOL

it's fine to ask for volunteer help, but a bit rich to look for the equivalent of paid service (with urgency yet!)

without actually paying the going rate

mrcashback   10 mW

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Re: Who's in Adelaide to get me set up?

Post by mrcashback » Apr 29 2020 3:54am

Settle down johnnie,
I didn't say "Pay in exposure" (though, I am currently working for exposure myself), and I didn't ask for a "volunteer"
I DID say I'd plug the shit out of you if you can do it PROMPTLY.
I DID ask who can get it done quickly and cheaply without killing my budget.
Nowhere did I suggest I wasn't prepared to pay "the going rate", so settle petal!
Not to mention, most people are out of work at the moment, so I'm very happy to help someone out with the work, infact, the whole reason I am completing this build now and promptly is so I can assist local community and help promote local businesses as much as possible.
Speed/Turnover time was my concern if you read before judging.

I did also say I was happy to discuss endorsement deals though which is a SEPARATE discussion - people in Adelaide would have a good chance of having heard what this is, and as the only entertainment running atm in a covid environment has proven worthwhile to other endorsees that actually pay us for the the "exposure".... but like I said, that's a different story.... I'm just looking for someone whom I can make a purchase from with the skills, and tools to get me runing quickly so we can ditch the regular treddly asap and do more km on the road visiting more kids, makin more peeps smile, and plugging more local businesses in the process before the rain sets in :)

mrcashback   10 mW

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Phase wires /halls colour matching - Which Way?

Post by mrcashback » Apr 29 2020 4:05am

I've tried a few combos and not sure which one is right, cant figure out if one was smoother than the other, so not sure what is the correct way of wiring it.

These are the combos I tried and the results I got

MXUS 3000 - partially worked, seemed to groan/jolty
Phase Y-y, B-b, G-g
Hall Y-y, B-b, G-g

Crystalyte H35 - Worked smoothly in reverse
Phase G-y, Y-b, B-g
Hall G-b, Y-G, B-Y

I reversed the Crystalite settings - Worked Rough / Jolty forwards
Phase Y-g, B-y, G-b
Hall B-G, G-y, Y-b

QS205 - Worked Smoothly
Phase Y-y, B-g, G-B
Hall Y-y, B-g, G-b

Cromotor - Worked Smoothly
Phase B-y, G-g, Y-b
Hall B-y, G-g, Y-b


So, it's between the QS205 settings and the Cromotor settings, Is there a way I can figure out which I should be using for best results and lowest battery usage?

Im not actually sure what the motor is, I thought it was a chinese cromotor rip off, its a 4t hub motor, 5kw, thats all i know about it

The controller is a powervelocity controller that I cannot for the life of me get to read or write any settings over BT

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MadRhino   100 GW

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Re: Phase wires /halls colour matching - Which Way?

Post by MadRhino » Apr 29 2020 6:04am

Your motor is a QS205H50. I remember seeing it in your other thread. Both combinations are working fine because a cromotor is a qs205 that had been modified, mostly to make it lighter.

It is normal that those 2 combos are working perfect, for they are a cycle of the same.
Try
Phase B-b, G-y, Y-g
Hall B-b, G-y, Y-g

Remember before riding. This controller is probably pre-set to much higher power than your battery is able to supply, and this motor can pull a lot of power in hard acceleration. Since your lifepo4 battery is rated only 30A peak, you have to be very conservative in your power usage until you can successfully program the controller to match the limits of the battery.
Make it fool-proof, and I will make a better fool.
Current bikes
Street:
Trek Session 10 mod. Variable geometry. 70mph
Dirt:
Santa Cruz V10. 50mph

HK12K   10 kW

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Re: Phase wires /halls colour matching - Which Way?

Post by HK12K » Apr 29 2020 9:12am

A QS205 50H with a 30 amp battery behind it? That's not nearly enough to motivate that motor. If it gets pointed uphill it will probably labor so hard it overheats before you reach the top, if it doesn't sap the pack to LVC first.

mrcashback   10 mW

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Re: Phase wires /halls colour matching - Which Way?

Post by mrcashback » Apr 29 2020 9:16am

Perfect, thank's so much :)
I added an extra battery pack to make it a 56v setup with 5x12.8v in series based on your observation in my last thread, hopefully this will help with that anticipated problem?

What would you suggest is ideal here? should I be running twice as many packs so that I can parralell groups of two for faster discharge rates, or just adding extras in series as I expand it ?

- I noticed immediately that dropping one of the batteries made it stutter with the default settings with 48v of supply available, wher-as it spun smooth with the 5th pack.

I'm *assuming* that the default settings have programmed the 3 selector switch to have the first position as the most economical, so will deffiniteley try run that mode until I can figure out how to get access to the programming, but failing that, any tricks to manually limit the signal from the throttle via an inline resister or similar perhaps?

Thanks so much for your input :)

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Re: Phase wires /halls colour matching - Which Way?

Post by HK12K » Apr 29 2020 9:30am

In a nutshell:

Voltage = speed
Amperage = torque
Amp Hours = range

If what you have now will provide 30 amps and you double the number of cells by adding the same number in parallel you'll have 60 amps peak on tap. Still woefully underpowered for that motor, but getting closer. 80-100 amps would be better. 150-300 would be more like it though.

Keep trying to get that controller programmed. If you try and run it as-is you're pretty much guaranteed to overdraw your current pack. Since I have no idea what if any bms you're using it may end in either random shutdown, cell damage, or possibly even random meltdown.

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MadRhino   100 GW

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Re: Phase wires /halls colour matching - Which Way?

Post by MadRhino » Apr 29 2020 10:35am

Those batteries are made to replace lead acid car batteries with lifepo4. Their rating is 20A continuous, 30 peak. They are safe and long lasting, but poor performance.

This controller that you have is normally 85A. The motor can take very high peak power (25+ kw), and conservatively 3 kw continuous.

We normally feed that motor with higher power controllers, using powerful RC lipo or big assembly of lico round cells.

Still, the qs205h50 is very efficient and will run a low power bike NP. Only, that is a lot of weight for a low performance build.
Make it fool-proof, and I will make a better fool.
Current bikes
Street:
Trek Session 10 mod. Variable geometry. 70mph
Dirt:
Santa Cruz V10. 50mph

mrcashback   10 mW

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Re: Phase wires /halls colour matching - Which Way?

Post by mrcashback » Apr 29 2020 10:49am

bummer, had no clue.
I assumed the motor would only suck down what the controller would let it (which i guess is moot when the controller isnt working right)

So, given that there's nowhere near enough room to fit 40x packs in there for 300A, would it make more sence from a *not blowing anything up* standpoint to aim to run 12 packs as 3parrallel 4 series, @ 48v (if i can squeeze them in somehow), instead of 2 parrellel 6 series @72v?
I can get 8-10 in there after unpacking the cases, an extra couple will be quite the squeeze!

each pack has its own bms... initially i would be parallelling them all for charging until i can find a suitable solution.
Prior, when i first started building it, everything i tried to buy that i liked the sound of was always sold out, unavailable, unresponsive sellers, under development....... so far not much has changed in the ebike world over the last 5yrs it seems though?

I dont need alot of serious power initially, this is a quick, get it finished *now* job, but, i dont wanna blow things up in the process either, so simply being aware of what to be careful of with this setup, and whats gonna die first if i screw up will go a long way to making sure i avoid that I guess

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Re: Phase wires /halls colour matching - Which Way?

Post by HK12K » Apr 29 2020 11:36am

MadRhino wrote:
Apr 29 2020 10:35am
.

Still, the qs205h50 is very efficient and will run a low power bike NP. Only, that is a lot of weight for a low performance build.
fwiw I have the same motor on a similar bike. When I first started using it I tried being quasi-legal and dialing back the power to as low as 60a (Battery). Not only was it lethargic but the motor heated going uphill more than I would have ever expected at the time.

It'll send me up hills as steep as I dare climb if I give it the juice to do it quickly, but if it's lugging and laboring at slow speeds it can get warm with a quickness. At least in the mountains of BC with my weighty self aboard anyway, and doubly so on a 30c day.

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Re: Phase wires /halls colour matching - Which Way?

Post by HK12K » Apr 29 2020 11:55am

mrcashback wrote:
Apr 29 2020 10:49am
bummer, had no clue.
I assumed the motor would only suck down what the controller would let it (which i guess is moot when the controller isnt working right)
Accurate, but if the controller is set to draw 85a from a pack designed to provide 20a it's going to trip the bms as soon as you roll on the throttle or go up a hill.

So, given that there's nowhere near enough room to fit 40x packs in there for 300A, would it make more sence from a *not blowing anything up* standpoint to aim to run 12 packs as 3parrallel 4 series, @ 48v (if i can squeeze them in somehow), instead of 2 parrellel 6 series @72v?
I can get 8-10 in there after unpacking the cases, an extra couple will be quite the squeeze!
Your best bet would possibly be to unload those batteries and get something more appropriate for the task at hand. Barring that, 48v should be fine if it'll get you more cells in parallel. 60a is tenable. 20a isn't worth the effort on that bike imho.

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MadRhino   100 GW

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Re: Phase wires /halls colour matching - Which Way?

Post by MadRhino » Apr 29 2020 2:36pm

Agreed. If you feed a motor low power as to make it stall up a hill, you are killing it. You want to get out of inefficiency zone quickly.
Make it fool-proof, and I will make a better fool.
Current bikes
Street:
Trek Session 10 mod. Variable geometry. 70mph
Dirt:
Santa Cruz V10. 50mph

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Sunder   100 MW

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Re: Phase wires /halls colour matching - Which Way?

Post by Sunder » Apr 29 2020 10:56pm

In response to your original question, I found this chart when building my first eBike, and it has served me well since:

Image

It's also worth getting a multimeter to check the no load power usage. If it's more than you would expect to spin a wheel of your weight (10-20w for most eBike motors, more for heavier eMotorcycle motors), then you probably have it in the wrong order and are just not notiching the rough rotation.
eBike: Q100H on 16S with Phaserunner FOC Controller
eMotorscooter: Vectrix VX-1 Died... Electrified Ninja in Progress!
eCar: Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV... Warramty expired. Still not game!
eHouse: 6.2kw On-grid solar with battery backup coming soon!

After 5 builds, the best advice I can give, is start with high quality products. I prefer http://www.ebikes.ca

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