Ebike kit advice.

General Discussion about electric bicycles.
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Pemalite   1 mW

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Ebike kit advice.

Post by Pemalite » Mar 22 2020 4:00am

After a month or so ago, my home got broken into and my Ebike stolen while I was asleep. (Giant Boulder 1 + 26" 1000w dillenger ebike kit)
Mostly was my main form of transport, used it for shopping, used it for attending Fire Station callouts and SES rescues, so my ability to respond to rescues in a timely manner is severely compromised at the moment... And there is only so much pedaling I can tolerate. :lol:

At the moment Dillenger doesn't have any kits that look attractive to me at the price I want... Arc Electric Bikes seems to have gone, Hyena seems to have gone... So almost at a loss.
I am just looking for something, simple, clean, with waterproof wiring... And not overly expensive from an outlet which doesn't have a shit reputation... And offers Afterpay or Zippay.

At the moment I am using a Giant Stance 27.5" bicycle... But I intend to get a hard tail within the next few months. (Hence the need for Afterpay or Zippay to make ends meet.)

Thankfully the fire season in Australia is closing down, but I will likely have an uptick in Marine Rescues, Storm jobs and so forth, so would rather get something up and running before winter...

I also do like the look of the Surron, mostly the dirt-bike styling, is there anything similar that I can pedal and isn't overly expensive? Maybe $2,000 total, tops?

Cheers in advance.

markz   100 GW

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Re: Ebike kit advice.

Post by markz » Mar 22 2020 6:33pm

A solid kit to buy would be a rear hub motor Leaf 1500W if the power suits your needs, it can go much higher then that. If you require more power in a rear hub motor then a MXUS 3000W would do you just fine. If you require a mid drive then a BBSHD or CycloneTW would do you just fine as well.

Then you grab a battery, and a controller a few throttles for spares, torque arms for hub motors and call it a day.

But, it sounds to me like you want a store bought ebike, which case there is help here at ES but the people over at MTBR forums like to pay thousands and thousands and thousands of dollars for store bought proprietary ebike with proprietary parts at a high cost to replace.
You can and will do will with the motors I mentioned.

flat tire   1 MW

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Re: Ebike kit advice.

Post by flat tire » Mar 22 2020 6:43pm

If you insist on a store bought ebike there is nothing at your price point that doesn't blow.

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Pemalite   1 mW

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Re: Ebike kit advice.

Post by Pemalite » Mar 22 2020 10:24pm

Nah. Not wanting a store brought ebike.

A kit is sufficient.
Or at-least an outlet that will let me pick and choose the components without having a birds-nest for wiring. :lol:

Dillenger was my normal port of call, but they have stuffed me around more than once, so I would rather not give them a 3rd chance. (Not to mention they don't have a 1000w or greater hub motor kit anyway.)

Happy to spend upwards of $2,000 on just the kit. I will get the bike itself locally as they do Lay buy, probably a Giant Trance or something.

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Re: Ebike kit advice.

Post by flat tire » Mar 23 2020 1:01am

The Leaf is a good choice. QS motor is also a good choice. I think both companies will supply all the trimmings except a battery (and maybe that too).

Make absolutely sure to get so-called torque arms from somewhere like ebikes.ca or your dropouts may be destroyed with unpleasant consequences for you and the bike.

Waterproof anything not sufficiently covered by the factory with mastic and electric tape.

ScooterMan101   10 MW

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Re: Ebike kit advice.

Post by ScooterMan101 » Mar 23 2020 1:02am

A EEB frame from Em3ev.com , along with a dd rear hub or the mac rear hub depending on which style you like better .
12 or 18 fet controller . and one of their battery packs.

With a budget of up to $ 2, 000 that is about all I can think of .

Are you sure you want to go with a hard tail ?
Suspension is so much better.

Option 2 ) Just the Giant Stance for your bike with a rear hub , I think the Stance still has dropouts ?
My first conversion ... Sold

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=71378&p=1077497&hil ... 1#p1077497

It's 2018 already, ( now 2019 ) lets get some real , improved e-bike / e-velomobile / e-motorcycle designs .

999zip999   100 GW

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Re: Ebike kit advice.

Post by 999zip999 » Mar 23 2020 12:08pm

How did the dillenger kit work ? How fast and how well did it climb for you ?

MikeSSS   100 W

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Re: Ebike kit advice.

Post by MikeSSS » Mar 23 2020 6:54pm

My torque arms from Grin in Canada are far better than the torque arm looking objects from Luna.

Edit to add: the Grin arms are thicker and more carefully and precisely made. They are just better.

My Luna battery is 3.5 years old and working very well.

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Pemalite   1 mW

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Re: Ebike kit advice.

Post by Pemalite » Mar 26 2020 8:29pm

Yeah. The Stance has drop outs. I did run with torque arms on my Giant Boulder and the old 1000w kit before it got stolen.
I would prefer a hard tail, so I can install a rear rack with panniers, then I can do the shopping and so on without much drama... Not aware of a rear-rack that would be okay with dual suspension while supporting 80kg or more?

Still indecisive. Haha

Rev electric bikes has a 1500w kit, but seems it's not just a simple, single plug to keep everything neat and tidy.
https://rev-electricbikekits.com.au/pro ... motor-kit/

Plus it's a cool $2,000... Plus they want to fit the kit themselves... And of course not Afterpay or Zippay.

Did notice Pirez has a Bafang BBSHD... I have always shied away from a mid drive... But it seems they might be the way to go now over a Hub? Plus they have Zip and it's cheaper than Dillenger... While having a 26Ah battery option.

https://pirez.com.au/120mm-bbshd-48v100 ... drive-kit/

Although, pretty clueless about installing a Bafang drive though.

markz   100 GW

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Re: Ebike kit advice.

Post by markz » Mar 26 2020 9:13pm

Pemalite wrote:
Mar 22 2020 10:24pm
Nah. Not wanting a store brought ebike.

A kit is sufficient.
Or at-least an outlet that will let me pick and choose the components without having a birds-nest for wiring. :lol:
Well if you buy a sensorless controller then that will have 3 phase wires, plus a throttle with 3. You also want matching connectors to match controller and battery, phase connectors, throttle connector(s).

www.EM3EV.com
MAC geared rear hub 1500W motor
or their 3000W motor, probably direct drive mxus 3kw clone.
All looks to be decent pricing. S/H will be a cool $100 to $150 which is normal.
Get them to lace the hub into a rim you want.
Get the battery there too.
Matching connectors

Done deal.
Throw in some N95 masks while your at it!

Bullfrog   100 W

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Re: Ebike kit advice.

Post by Bullfrog » Mar 27 2020 7:01pm

IMO Markz has the best ideas.

Buy everything from one vendor.

I have had great results with everything I have bought from EM3ev. Customer service is a little slow to respond but reliable and they stand behind everything. Best batteries around IMO.

I personally would go with a 10T MAC, a 12 FET 3077 controller, and a 14s 5p or 6p battery with probably 25R cells. The MAC will out accelerate most bikes running 72v batteries from 0-20 mph.

If you don't like the MAC, EM3ev currently offers a 3,000w direct drive kit that is a really good deal IMO but you'll need to run a moped tire since it only comes laced to a 17" or 19" rim. That can be good because they are more puncture resistant than a bicycle tire.

The MAC is 135 mm wide and also comes in a Fat Bike version that is 170 mm. The 3,000w motor is 150 mm wide so depending on what frame you use, that might make the decision for you.

Grin Tech is another very reliable vendor and provides this forum...they would be worth checking out as well. They have Ready to Roll kits that include everything you need but are a few bucks more depending on what you get and shipping...they also offer great customer service.

If weight is an issue, my steel framed mongoose terrex with a MAc and a 14s6p battery weighs 64 lbs. Tough to beat the power and weight of a MAC...or the GMAC that Grin Tech sells which is the same motor with regen :D .

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Pemalite   1 mW

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Re: Ebike kit advice.

Post by Pemalite » Mar 28 2020 8:34pm

With the USD to AUD conversion rate... Probably not the best time to be buying from the USA. (0.62cents to the dollar!)
$1,000 USD would equate to $1,600 at the moment.

So that makes EM3ev and Grin Tech seem less attractive from a price perspective. (Plus they don't have Zippay/Afterpay either.)

Bullfrog   100 W

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Re: Ebike kit advice.

Post by Bullfrog » Mar 28 2020 8:37pm

EM3ev is a China based company owned and operated by a gentleman from the UK.

Grin Tech is Canadian.

john61ct   100 GW

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Re: Ebike kit advice.

Post by john61ct » Mar 28 2020 11:40pm

Never heard of Zippay/Afterpay

Bullfrog   100 W

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Re: Ebike kit advice.

Post by Bullfrog » Mar 29 2020 4:49am

Bullfrog wrote:
Mar 28 2020 8:37pm
EM3ev is a China based company owned and operated by a gentleman from the UK.

Grin Tech is Canadian.
Both accept Paypal.

cavi   10 W

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Re: Ebike kit advice.

Post by cavi » Mar 30 2020 5:26pm

First off decide if you are going offroad or not. If you are going offroad then go with a Bfang BBSHD mid drive kit. If it is like 90% onroad then the hub motor is fine, even though I have having a large controller hanging off the bike, bad enough that I have a battery hanging off it. I will make no secret that I like buying Bfang from Lunacycle as they have customer support and they upgrade the controllers so they actually last.....

cem   10 µW

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Re: Ebike kit advice.

Post by cem » Mar 30 2020 10:10pm

I feel your pain had my bike with a Dillinger kit stolen in 2018 from inside the locked bike cage at my local train station had two good locks on it and you need to use your travel pass to get into the cage the cops caught the prick but didn’t get my bike back.

Have you looked at luna mate and volt bike here in oz, they both do bbshd kits. Volt bike have done some mods to their version which you might like.

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Pemalite   1 mW

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Re: Ebike kit advice.

Post by Pemalite » Mar 31 2020 12:42am

john61ct wrote:
Mar 28 2020 11:40pm
Never heard of Zippay/Afterpay
Payment/Finance methods in Australia which are super convenient. I don't earn enough to have thousands of dollars sitting in a bank somewhere. :lol:

Afterpay spreads the payment over 4x installment, Zippay can allow up to $1,500 purchases... And it's parent company Zipmoney can allow up to $5,000.

Pirez does allow for Zippay if anyone has heard of them?
Can get a Bafang HD 1000w with a 26.4Ah battery for $2,370 AUD...
https://pirez.com.au/100mm-bbshd-48v100 ... drive-kit/

And I was thinking of dropping it onto a size XL Giant Talon 3 which I can throw onto Afterpay for only $699 AUD.
https://www.bicyclesuperstore.com.au/gi ... -2020.html

Not sure what size bracket I need yet for that bike(68mm vs 100mm vs 120mm etc'), just seeing whats around.

Mostly just roads and lots of hills, occasional offroad... Took my old Dillenger 1000w hub kit on the trail a fair bit for a good 5+ years without much drama, so hard tails are fine for me.

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Re: Ebike kit advice.

Post by john61ct » Mar 31 2020 2:35am

I have over USD $20K rolling credit at PayPal, zero interest if you pay it down in six months

Bullfrog   100 W

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Re: Ebike kit advice.

Post by Bullfrog » Mar 31 2020 8:47am

MAC for relatively smooth roads, BBSHD for off road or if you plan to ride over some harsh bumps. The MAC has little springs that keep the rollers in place in the clutch and they will get knocked out of place if you hit stuff really hard...it happened to me riding over big roots. Only thing that happened when the springs were out of place is the clutch would not freewheel...still transmitted power just fine AND I got regen :) .

BBSHD transmits power through the chain/sprockets so they will wear if you do a lot of mileage where the MAC internal gears last forever and no wear on your chain/sprockets. The MAC gears are really tough now and EM3ev includes grease to lube them...doesn't take much. I have been running my 12T MAC on a 14s/52v battery and 40A battery amperage with 112 phase amps using a 12 FET 3077 controller...no problems whatsoever with the motor other than the springs mentioned above. Acceleration is phenomenal and with a 29" Hookworm tire, top speed is about 25 mph. Seriously considering going to a 10T for a little higher top speed.

MAC or BBSHD...just depends on how you plan to use your bike. Direct Drive motors only have one moving part and are very simple and would be a good choice for high mileage on relatively flat surfaces IMO since they are heavier and have less torque per amp so again it all depends on how you are going to use your bike.

If you are in Australia, the shipping from EM3ev (they are in China) may not be too bad...you can put stuff in your cart and it will give you the total cost without having to purchase anything. If you buy from someone else, make sure you include the total cost when doing a cost comparison. I haven't been able to find anybody that has better total prices except some fly by night places :lol: . Nothing wrong with the Bafang BBS02 and they can be had for less money than the BBSHD...the BBSHD has more power and more power potential.

Regardless of whether you go with a MAC or BBSHD, I'd recommend a 14s/52v battery...you get better throttle response than a 13s/48v or lower voltages and a 14s6p has more capacity than a 13s6p just because there are more cells :D .

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