DIY vs. Commercial: How/ Why(not)?

General Discussion about electric bicycles.
markz   100 GW

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Re: DIY vs. Commercial: How/ Why(not)?

Post by markz » Apr 02 2020 2:48pm

Havent read the thread, just a few counter points to whats been said.


DIY kits - Sellers sell same motor as 250W and 500W and 750W so they can sell same motor to scared Britons (250W) and scared Americans (500W), Canadians 750W.

Not sure about OP self promo comment. OP seems genuine to me. I thought maybe your comment was that the OP had a commercial ebike rip-off skew to them, perhaps a MTBR forum mole. Maybe I am wrong, but I didnt find that. Just wants to get out and ride. Like I said I didnt read much, I thought too maybe he/she was scared and didnt want to go beyond 251W otherwise imprisonment. There are plenty of those type of people. Yet I bet they still speed in their tin cans and litter their cigs.

Commercial ebikes have their place, though they are expensive, have proprietary parts that are expensive.
DIY is cheaper, yet still as durable and reliable, and you can buy affordable parts immediately from anywhere in the world.

donn   1 kW

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Re: DIY vs. Commercial: How/ Why(not)?

Post by donn » Apr 02 2020 4:45pm

markz wrote:
Apr 02 2020 2:48pm
Not sure about OP self promo comment. OP seems genuine to me.
Literally that was "the author", which could mean the OP but more likely referred to the previous post, an ad for TSDZ2 controller software. Advertising in a forum. If you probably know ads aren't appropriate, but you don't care and put one up anyway, does that reduce your credibility? If you really don't know any better? I don't know. Maybe credibility isn't the right word.

flat tire   1 MW

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Re: DIY vs. Commercial: How/ Why(not)?

Post by flat tire » Apr 02 2020 5:04pm

casainho wrote:
Apr 02 2020 5:33am
Here the power that comes with the flexibility on DIY and OpenSource on TSDZ2:
That dude and his posts are annoying. The open source firmware is very cool, but who the hell pushes it like a used car salesman AND puts pictures of himself and his family in the same post? I'm confused and wondering what kind of pathology may have lead to him doing this crap in all kinds of random threads.

markz   100 GW

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Re: DIY vs. Commercial: How/ Why(not)?

Post by markz » Apr 02 2020 5:35pm

donn wrote:
Apr 02 2020 4:45pm
markz wrote:
Apr 02 2020 2:48pm
Not sure about OP self promo comment. OP seems genuine to me.
Literally that was "the author", which could mean the OP but more likely referred to the previous post, an ad for TSDZ2 controller software. Advertising in a forum. If you probably know ads aren't appropriate, but you don't care and put one up anyway, does that reduce your credibility? If you really don't know any better? I don't know. Maybe credibility isn't the right word.
Yeah I did read that, somewhere on ES today, I think. But maybe it was a different thread. But it did sound like adv. I havent checked to see if what I'm thinking of was this thread, but it probably is. I wont bother double checking. From memory: adv post had user with 3k posts, which threw me off as well. I know what you are saying now.

john61ct   100 GW

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Re: DIY vs. Commercial: How/ Why(not)?

Post by john61ct » Apr 02 2020 8:21pm

flat tire wrote:
casainho wrote:
Apr 02 2020 5:33am
Here the power that comes with the flexibility on DIY and OpenSource on TSDZ2:
That dude and his posts are annoying. The open source firmware is very cool, but who the hell pushes it like a used car salesman AND puts pictures of himself and his family in the same post? I'm confused and wondering what kind of pathology may have lead to him doing this crap in all kinds of random threads.
I have no problem with family pics, personal touch is in the spirit of FOSS.

Crass promotion as if you want to one day make money, is a big red flag though.

donn   1 kW

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Re: DIY vs. Commercial: How/ Why(not)?

Post by donn » Apr 03 2020 12:11am

Open source has turned out to be a viable commercial strategy, right? If it looks like advertising, it is; open source or not is irrelevant.

If it's clearly in violation of something, then it's probably going to disappear shortly. If it isn't ... I would have to agree it seems slightly crass by my ever so refined standards, but then maybe if they were a little more refined yet, I'd think it was crass to say so.

casainho   10 GW

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Re: DIY vs. Commercial: How/ Why(not)?

Post by casainho » Apr 03 2020 2:28am

john61ct wrote:
Apr 02 2020 8:21pm
flat tire wrote:
casainho wrote:
Apr 02 2020 5:33am
Here the power that comes with the flexibility on DIY and OpenSource on TSDZ2:
That dude and his posts are annoying. The open source firmware is very cool, but who the hell pushes it like a used car salesman AND puts pictures of himself and his family in the same post? I'm confused and wondering what kind of pathology may have lead to him doing this crap in all kinds of random threads.
I have no problem with family pics, personal touch is in the spirit of FOSS.

Crass promotion as if you want to one day make money, is a big red flag though.
The project was develop with participation of many users and other developers, it is a community project far from being commercial product - and the developers are not winning any money, only winning the value of they can take out of using a special bicycle - you see, my kid with 7 years old, I would not be able to go to market and buy an ebike for him!! Or that hand cycles, I think it would be impossible to buy on the market for that price and customization/adaptation to the specifics of the user.

There are 2 shops selling this kit with this firmware and potentially winning money and they provide mostly hardware for me to keep developing. I am very happy to have shops selling because many users are no technical and prefer to pay and have support - still all the sources, documentation and knowledgment are free and OpenSource for the others that prefer DIY.

The promotion I do is due to my passion with this project, because I use every day my ebike as also my family so I took a lot of value out of it, that is why is so important, it is a pleasure and fitness machine, it is something really special!! I promote because I want to give for free, as much as possible to others.
- TSDZ2 FAQ: issues and repairs, etc
- TSDZ2 OpenSource firmware

Developer of the Flexible OpenSource firmware for EBikes: TSDZ2 mid drive motor, KT motor controllers and displays: Bafang 850C color, SW102 Bluetooth and KT-LCD3.

If you like my work, please consider making a donation. I am being using the donations to buy needed resources for my developments. My paypal: casainho AT gmail.com.

john61ct   100 GW

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Re: DIY vs. Commercial: How/ Why(not)?

Post by john61ct » Apr 03 2020 2:50am

Personally I'm satisfied, for myself, but in the spirit of helping you, I stand by what I wrote, even if your intentions are pure.
john61ct wrote:Don't take this wrong, do what you like

but IMO such an enthusiastic promotional tone by the author reduces the credibility of the project.

Timelord   10 W

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Re: DIY vs. Commercial: How/ Why(not)?

Post by Timelord » Apr 04 2020 7:14pm

Relax, John. Casainho is okay. I got annoyed with all the software development discussions he poured into the general TSDZ2 topic, but the open source firmware is legit and they've all put a lot of work into it. If he thinks that firmware is great (and quite a few users seem to agree), then he can be forgiven for tooting his own horn every once in a while.

john61ct   100 GW

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Re: DIY vs. Commercial: How/ Why(not)?

Post by john61ct » Apr 04 2020 8:57pm

I have stated that I do not doubt anything at all.

That does not change my advice, in order to help ensure the success of the project as it grows and matures.

He can take it or leave it of course.

And thanks for **your** concern for my state of mind, but am perfectly relaxed.


markz   100 GW

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Re: DIY vs. Commercial: How/ Why(not)?

Post by markz » Apr 04 2020 9:05pm

Lets stay on topic to help out the Original Poster.
We get lots of these questions here on Endless Sphere, every....single.....day same questions.

3 diy choices
direct drive hub motor, front or rear
geared hub motor, front or rear
mid drive

More choices, store bought. We've been through it already. Proprietary parts are expensive. Some here are rich and ride store ebikes. Save your money and build your own, build what suits you, not the masses.

donn   1 kW

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Re: DIY vs. Commercial: How/ Why(not)?

Post by donn » Apr 07 2020 9:58am

markz wrote:
Apr 04 2020 9:05pm
More choices, store bought. We've been through it already. Proprietary parts are expensive. Some here are rich and ride store ebikes. Save your money and build your own, build what suits you, not the masses.
You're right that we've been through it; not so sure about the rest.

I used a kit, so somewhere in between - never spent a minute thinking about matching the controller to the motor and configuring it, and I didn't miss a thing there - if it was any extra money, it was well spent. I bought batteries separately, didn't weld one up out of a sack of cells. Just had to bolt the stuff on. I ride recumbents, so there wasn't any real choice there. That's a factor - if you want a particular ride that you can't get off the electric shelf. Also a factor is whether you like messing around with this stuff.

The lady of the house occasionally professes to want one. If that happens, it's going to be off the shelf, or she's going to get someone else to put it together. Another factor - whether you like riding a homemade contraption that someone else made.

Not so much of a factor: whether you're "rich". From what I can see, if you can afford to mess around with electric bicycles at this point, in the west, you're doing OK. There are some examples that are pretty spendy, but the guy I know of who rides one is not rich by anyone's definition - last summer I believe he was living in the park and catching and eating rabbits. I believe it's a Bianchi Aria. He spent the money and got what suited him.

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