Hunting/mountain E-Bikes

General Discussion about electric bicycles.
woodey707   10 µW

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Hunting/mountain E-Bikes

Post by woodey707 » Feb 19 2020 7:21pm

Looking at this as an option for a Ebike I can take hunting. What do you think? The price looks great compared to bikes here in the states. Comparing to the Rambo, Quietkat, or BikTrix 750W Juggernaut
Let me know if I'm going in the right direction by buying direct or ???? They are going to do a custom paint in Kryptek camo for me as well. They quoted $210 shipping to my local port for TWO bikes, that seems cheap. I will still need to pay the taxes.
Thanks

https://xfxebike.en.alibaba.com/product ... 3e5fytHFkQ

er Specification FOB price Fat boy 005
Battery: 48V 21Ah Samsung Lithium Battery $1650/PC
$1800/PC (1 pc order / as a sample)
Motor: 48V 750W Bafang Mid drive G510 motor Frame: Aluminum Alloy Tires: 26"*4.0 Maxxis Tires Brake: Tektro E725 Hydraulic Disc Brake Display: Bafang LCD display Fork: RST Renegade Air fork Rear fork: DNM Rear Air shock Gears: Shimano 8-speed-gears Color: Black etc. (Customizable)
Foldable: No Certification: CE Range: 60-80km Max load: 150kgs Charging time: 6-8 Hours Max Speed: 25-32km/h Place of Origin: Zhejiang, China N.W / G.W 26kg/35kg

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Re: Hunting/mountain E-Bikes

Post by flat tire » Feb 19 2020 7:29pm

I dunno what you hunt with (or what you're hunting) but an electric motorcycle is probably a better choice. A Zero FX or even DS would be ideal. Plenty of cargo capacity, easier to mount the weapon(s), more range, durability, ruggedness, power, speed.

Actually I guess you're on a budget. Making your own bike will have the best results in that scenario. I don't recommend any store-bought ebikes, especially cheap ones but the one you linked will probably roll around under its own power (for a while).

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Re: Hunting/mountain E-Bikes

Post by Hwy89 » Feb 20 2020 1:20am

Just my opinion but if you are buying a factory built E bike you would be better off checking out the Rad Bike models. You are still getting a Chinese bike but from an American Company with a decent reputation. Just saying.

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Re: Hunting/mountain E-Bikes

Post by John in CR » Feb 20 2020 5:55am

What are you going to do when you have to haul a kill out of the woods? Call a gasser? Build yourself a fully capable EV that can do the whole job, not just sneak you to your spot silently.

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Re: Hunting/mountain E-Bikes

Post by dogman dan » Feb 20 2020 7:22am

Yeah, curious what kind of hunting. I used to bird hunt by motorcycle. No problem to carry a few quail or doves in the hunting vests game pocket.

But I see a lot of deer, elk and turkey by e bike up in the mountains today. Don't see them on a gasser. Many trips is well worth it for a season of good eating. During an elk season, there are those who go out just to help haul back the kill with off road vehicles.

Some kind of mid drive for sure, is what you want. Able to run a trail designed for mule packing. Hub motors tend to die on old forest service built trails. Just too steep or just rocky to ride faster and keep the motor cool.

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Re: Hunting/mountain E-Bikes

Post by woodey707 » Feb 20 2020 6:05pm

John in CR wrote:
Feb 20 2020 5:55am
What are you going to do when you have to haul a kill out of the woods? Call a gasser? Build yourself a fully capable EV that can do the whole job, not just sneak you to your spot silently.
I'm planning on getting a single wheeled cargo trailer also. If the load is big I'll go back to camp & get the truck. I'm deer hunting in the Tahoe area of California. Been out 9 times for 5 day trips in the last 4 or 5 years & have yet to shoot ANYTHING. Buck only out here, I've seen plenty of doe that I would have shot if legal. I also want to us these for general biking for me & my wife. They need to be more like a bike I can ride around town then a $10K E motor cycle.
Hwy89 wrote:
Feb 20 2020 1:20am
Just my opinion but if you are buying a factory built E bike you would be better off checking out the Rad Bike models. You are still getting a Chinese bike but from an American Company with a decent reputation. Just saying.
At less then 1/2 the cost I'll take my chances & get 2 for less the then cost of 1 branded one here in the states. This looks like almost the same bike for 2x the price https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/ ... 685cdmVtkY

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Re: Hunting/mountain E-Bikes

Post by John in CR » Feb 20 2020 6:52pm

Ok I got it...hunting more for the getting out in nature than for the food that's welcome but rare. I'd still do a quad or something more motorcycle-like with a big honking battery. With used components, they can be done for not much more than an ebike, which is often better for around town riding. Plus it's better to learn building an ebike, before building that wilderness workhorse. I definitely suggest the build route as it's so easy, you can do much more for less, and there's incredible satisfaction using transportation you built. Plus you can build to match your specific needs better than what is sold to the public. I can't think of anything store-bought that I'd trust out in the wilderness on mountainous terrain that doesn't cost a fortune.

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Re: Hunting/mountain E-Bikes

Post by Balmorhea » Feb 20 2020 10:39pm

John in CR wrote:
Feb 20 2020 6:52pm
I can't think of anything store-bought that I'd trust out in the wilderness on mountainous terrain that doesn't cost a fortune.
I thought of the Surly Big Easy, which upholds your expectation in that regard.

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Re: Hunting/mountain E-Bikes

Post by markz » Feb 21 2020 12:28am

http://www.cyclone-tw.com/Coaxial.html
Tons of power, fat tires, full suspension, great price, tons of power.
4kwbikeframes.jpg
4kwbikeframes.jpg (62.36 KiB) Viewed 1058 times

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Re: Hunting/mountain E-Bikes

Post by John in CR » Feb 21 2020 3:29am

Balmorhea wrote:
Feb 20 2020 10:39pm
John in CR wrote:
Feb 20 2020 6:52pm
I can't think of anything store-bought that I'd trust out in the wilderness on mountainous terrain that doesn't cost a fortune.
I thought of the Surly Big Easy, which upholds your expectation in that regard.
Obscenely expensive. I hope all companies that charge prices like that for electric bikes are all forced out of business by the laws of supply and demand. $5000usd for $100 worth of steel frame, no suspension at all, $100 worth of battery, and a motor that should cost no more than $200 to manufacture.

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Re: Hunting/mountain E-Bikes

Post by John in CR » Feb 21 2020 3:44am

markz wrote:
Feb 21 2020 12:28am
http://www.cyclone-tw.com/Coaxial.html
Tons of power, fat tires, full suspension, great price, tons of power.

4kwbikeframes.jpg
Though I haven't tried one, Tomm's review is encouraging, so that's actually the one ebike system I was thinking might be up to the task. I'd go with the one with the left side electric drive, but use a chain instead of a belt to handle mud better, and change the rear sprocket for a very low gearing for hunting use. I don't think more than 20mph is required for hunting use, and that kind of power geared for a top end of 20 should run stress free in any terrain you dare to ride. Fill that big triangle with battery, mount tough moto tires, and swap the controller out for the precision control and greater efficiency of a Nucular 12F.

Hopefully the left side drive doesn't freewheel, because I'd consider variable force regen braking a must have for a hunting vehicle.

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Re: Hunting/mountain E-Bikes

Post by dogman dan » Feb 22 2020 8:11am

If the bike hunting gets you one, just carry a lock. Lock it to a tree, and drag the buck out. Then go back for the bike. Or do it 300 yards at a time. drag 300 yards, go back and ride the bike 600 yards, repeat. Whatever is your limit per carry dragging him out.

I used to hunt a place I called rock climbing for deer. Great place to get one, since packing one out was just about impossible. But you get one, its possible after all. somehow. I found a little piece of thin bath paneling tied to his ass helped me slide the guy over sharp rocks.

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Re: Hunting/mountain E-Bikes

Post by john61ct » Feb 22 2020 12:14pm

I've seen YTs of guys dressing it out in the woods so only the meat needs hauling out.

Depends where you are of course

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Re: Hunting/mountain E-Bikes

Post by Balmorhea » Feb 23 2020 3:22am

John in CR wrote:
Feb 21 2020 3:29am
Balmorhea wrote:
Feb 20 2020 10:39pm
Surly Big Easy
Obscenely expensive. I hope all companies that charge prices like that for electric bikes are all forced out of business by the laws of supply and demand. $5000usd for $100 worth of steel frame, no suspension at all, $100 worth of battery, and a motor that should cost no more than $200 to manufacture.
Supply and demand is at the core of the issue with a bike like this. There are only so many people in the market for one. Designing, developing, tooling up, marketing, doing quality assurance, and supporting the product represent greater per-unit cost than manufacturing the thing. And all of those costs are less than the retailer's margin, which is necessary for most buyers to find and understand the bike, get properly set up, and keep it in good running order.

Those of us who can spec, install, and maintain our own e-bike conversions stand to save quite a bit of money versus buying a ready-to-roll machine. But unpowered bikes that are comparable in layout to Big Easy aren't cheap, and the ones that might substantially reduce total cost tend to come in only one size. That's only a bargain if you're of a correspondingly average size. The things we did to get to where we are qualified to build our own e-bikes weren't cheap, either.

It should be clear to anybody who's tried one that a Bosch torque sensing motor drive is a more sophisticated and well-made piece of equipment than a bottom-dollar Chinese kit, and costs more for good reasons.

I certainly won't be laying down 5000 of my own scarce dollars for a Big Easy, but that doesn't make it an unreasonable price.

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Re: Hunting/mountain E-Bikes

Post by John in CR » Feb 23 2020 6:15am

Balmorhea wrote:
Feb 23 2020 3:22am
John in CR wrote:
Feb 21 2020 3:29am
Balmorhea wrote:
Feb 20 2020 10:39pm
Surly Big Easy
Obscenely expensive. I hope all companies that charge prices like that for electric bikes are all forced out of business by the laws of supply and demand. $5000usd for $100 worth of steel frame, no suspension at all, $100 worth of battery, and a motor that should cost no more than $200 to manufacture.
Supply and demand is at the core of the issue with a bike like this. There are only so many people in the market for one. Designing, developing, tooling up, marketing, doing quality assurance, and supporting the product represent greater per-unit cost than manufacturing the thing. And all of those costs are less than the retailer's margin, which is necessary for most buyers to find and understand the bike, get properly set up, and keep it in good running order.

Those of us who can spec, install, and maintain our own e-bike conversions stand to save quite a bit of money versus buying a ready-to-roll machine. But unpowered bikes that are comparable in layout to Big Easy aren't cheap, and the ones that might substantially reduce total cost tend to come in only one size. That's only a bargain if you're of a correspondingly average size. The things we did to get to where we are qualified to build our own e-bikes weren't cheap, either.

It should be clear to anybody who's tried one that a Bosch torque sensing motor drive is a more sophisticated and well-made piece of equipment than a bottom-dollar Chinese kit, and costs more for good reasons.

I certainly won't be laying down 5000 of my own scarce dollars for a Big Easy, but that doesn't make it an unreasonable price.
While I understand your point, in reality the only people shelling out those big bucks are the same suckers who were shelling out the same big bucks for something without a battery, motor and controller. At play is something well outside Economics 101 and the law of supply and demand. Once you get into the realm of rich people and their toys there's a whole different system determining price. That portion of the populace and the leaches that feed on them have no useful purpose on this planet AFAIC.

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Re: Hunting/mountain E-Bikes

Post by Balmorhea » Feb 23 2020 1:21pm

John in CR wrote:
Feb 23 2020 6:15am
At play is something well outside Economics 101 and the law of supply and demand. Once you get into the realm of rich people and their toys there's a whole different system determining price. That portion of the populace and the leaches that feed on them have no useful purpose on this planet AFAIC.
I'm with you re: luxury goods that are expensive for the purpose of being expensive. They're exploitive not only of Individuals who themselves belong to the rich exploiter class, but also damaging to markets for commodity goods (by attracting producers to chase easy profits with pointless goods) and promotive of a prurient obsession with money for its own sake.

The folks I know who have high quality “expensive” cargo bikes are neither rich nor vain about it, though. They spent less than the equivalent of a year’s budget to own a car, on a bike that substitutes for a car in their specific situations and costs very little to operate. They are increasingly electrifying their bikes (or buying electric versions) even though that greatly increases the cost, because it also increases the value for them. If you live in a compact enough city, with a temperate enough climate, owning an “obscenely expensive” cargo e-bike can be much more economical than the alternatives.

In most of their cases, a cheaper cargo e-bike that was less reliable and less durable would be a poor bargain overall. I think something like the Rad Wagon is reasonably as cheap as the average person can go and still yield acceptable reliability. And it will certainly require more maintenance and more frequent parts replacement than a Big Easy.

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Re: Hunting/mountain E-Bikes

Post by markz » Feb 23 2020 6:22pm

Best to learn how to cut up the moose and take what you want out, rather then moving the entire animal out. Otherwise its quite a workout!

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Re: Hunting/mountain E-Bikes

Post by stoney » Feb 23 2020 8:03pm

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Re: Hunting/mountain E-Bikes

Post by fechter » Feb 24 2020 9:06am

I have a fat bike with a G510 Bafang drive.
Img_1480B.jpg
Img_1480B.jpg (138.94 KiB) Viewed 850 times
The G510 has some advantages and some disadvantages. Overall, I like riding it as the torque sensing PAS works much better than the PAS on a BBSHD. I put the smallest chain ring I could fit on there (38t) and I think the lowest rear cog is 36, so it climbs pretty well. Mine is a hard tail but the tires and saddle take up a lot of the bumps.

I ride mainly on fairly steep fire roads and trails. Tires and brakes become as important as the motor on steep stuff.

Pulling a trailer of any kind on a steep off-road trail will be challenging. Better to have racks on the bike. Going downhill with a trailer on a dirt road would scare me unless the trailer has good brakes.

21Ahr battery is good (assuming that's really accurate).

In throttle mode, the G510 can spin the chain ring way faster than you could ever pedal. If you run it hard at full throttle for an extended period, you can melt the plastic gear or fry the motor. If you keep it at human pedal speed, it will be fine.

I find the G510 is louder than the BBSHD, but not terribly loud. Under a good load it stays pretty quiet. If the load gets near zero (going downhill) and the motor is running, it starts getting noisy.

Check out this topic:
viewtopic.php?f=28&t=101679
The Frey is very similar to the one in the first post advertisement.
"One test is worth a thousand opinions"

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Re: Hunting/mountain E-Bikes

Post by redruff » Feb 24 2020 9:53am

I have the Juggernaut Classic and use it for hunting. I have yet to haul a deer out with it, but for bouncing around the woods for grouse, sheds etc. I like it.

One of the things you will notice when doing research its there are a couple Asian companies who are supplying about 95% of the frames. So you will see the same frame with all kinds of prices and components on it from different distributors.

READ THE SPECS, and not just the main ones like battery, etc.
I wanted to get a pair of summer tires for the Juggernaut. Well they use an "outdated" spec for dropout spacing.
They use a 5mm skewer with 135mm front and 190 rear. Not impossible to find hubs in that size but MUCH more difficult. As a rookie I had no idea that this would be any kind of issue until I tried finding wheels!

Then they play the pre-order game. What that means is you pay your money, when the seller has enough to fill a shipping container, they order and you wait...and wait....

Ordering direct you are totally on your own. Shipping issues, you deal with it, damage during shipping, you deal with it. Is it worth it?
If you understand the risks, probably.

You are eliminating the middle man that really doesn't provide much for more money.

How did I solve my tire issue? Bought another bike...figured a new wheelset was around $500 so put that towards a second bike built for mountain biking. I have about $3500 into two bikes.

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Re: Hunting/mountain E-Bikes

Post by 999zip999 » Feb 24 2020 11:31am

Wow you guys like to spend his money.

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Re: Hunting/mountain E-Bikes

Post by 999zip999 » Feb 24 2020 1:00pm

The first bike looks good. But what Samsung cells they make ones for flashlights and some for vape pipes. You want the one for vape pipes. Hartd hitting. Ask them which model Samsung cell they use. If they don't tell you it's probably run-of-the-mill Samsung cell.

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Re: Hunting/mountain E-Bikes

Post by woodey707 » Feb 24 2020 1:53pm

fechter wrote:
Feb 24 2020 9:06am
I have a fat bike with a G510 Bafang drive.

Img_1480B.jpg

The G510 has some advantages and some disadvantages. Overall, I like riding it as the torque sensing PAS works much better than the PAS on a BBSHD. I put the smallest chain ring I could fit on there (38t) and I think the lowest rear cog is 36, so it climbs pretty well. Mine is a hard tail but the tires and saddle take up a lot of the bumps.

I ride mainly on fairly steep fire roads and trails. Tires and brakes become as important as the motor on steep stuff.

Pulling a trailer of any kind on a steep off-road trail will be challenging. Better to have racks on the bike. Going downhill with a trailer on a dirt road would scare me unless the trailer has good brakes.

21Ahr battery is good (assuming that's really accurate).

In throttle mode, the G510 can spin the chain ring way faster than you could ever pedal. If you run it hard at full throttle for an extended period, you can melt the plastic gear or fry the motor. If you keep it at human pedal speed, it will be fine.

I find the G510 is louder than the BBSHD, but not terribly loud. Under a good load it stays pretty quiet. If the load gets near zero (going downhill) and the motor is running, it starts getting noisy.

Check out this topic:
viewtopic.php?f=28&t=101679
The Frey is very similar to the one in the first post advertisement.
I like the the Frey but they are $1k more for what looks to be the same bike.
This one looks interesting https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/ ... 16c3PVoS8Q Up to 30ah battery would be nice. Belt drive to boot. The bike is mainly going to be used for scouting & getting deeper into the back woods.

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Re: Hunting/mountain E-Bikes

Post by john61ct » Feb 24 2020 3:02pm

Don't want to get belt drive too dirty / muddy.

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Re: Hunting/mountain E-Bikes

Post by Beebad » Feb 29 2020 8:07am

I’ve been bike hunting for about four years now. Started with 750w hub motor fat bike. It’s a game changer for this 62 year old , makes getting out there much easier. When pulling a deer out on a hub motor, you have to help a lot or you’ll toast the motor. ( ask me how I know) I moved up to a biketrix ultra 1000 mid drive. Pulls a deer on the trailer easy! Put it I first gear and hit the throttle, piece-O-cake! I have the Hawkhunting four wheeler trailer works like a champ!

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