The joy of causing despair and confusion

General Discussion about electric bicycles.
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Sunder   100 MW

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The joy of causing despair and confusion

Post by Sunder » Feb 13 2020 5:59am

This is my bike:
my bike.jpg
my bike.jpg (433.55 KiB) Viewed 1131 times
It's nothing special. Built on a cheap Orbea frame, with a mix of cheap Unbranded, low end, and high end Shimano gear.

Oh. And Q100H, oil cooled, pumped by a Phaserunner pushing 1100W.

I never designed it to be stealthy. Only to avoid being a theft target, and police asking awkward questions. As they say "Ask me no questions, and I'll tell you no lies". The left hand pannier holds all the electronics. The right hand one holds my change of clothes for when I get to work (Office worker). The Q100H is hidden between them, and with a 42mm wide tire at the rear - almost impossible to see from behind either.

I've been riding in 3-4 days a week for 5 weeks now. And aside from the 40km/h cruising through parks, and sometimes up the left side of stopped traffic, I've found another joy. The despair I cause to some arrogant "purists" and the confusion I cause to other eBike users. You see, eBikes are now EXTREMELY popular in Sydney. Almost 1 in 3 bikes. But 90% of them are mid-drive, the other 9.9% of them are front hubs, but pretty much all of them use a shark style battery. In other words, almost all cyclists "know" what to look for to identify an electric bike... Unless you build it like me.

So in the last 5 weeks, I've had:

1. A woman, looking like Sarah Connor in Terminator 2. Sponsored jersy, riding a high end carbon Giant with Deep V wheels, the kind of bike that costs $10k+ AUD (>7k USD). Flies past me down a hill, at least 20km/h faster than my already high 40ish km/h. No problem. It's not a race, I'm commuting, not competing. But on the flats, I'm slowly catching up, and on the hill, I decide I would rather not slow to 30ish. I'm well past her. At the next lights, she pulls up next to me. Doesn't say a word, but she's not hiding that she's eyeballing my ride. Looks at the handle bar. Ordinary bike computer, no voltage, current, or energy consumption meters. Looks at the centre triangle. No battery. Looks at the rear rack, no battery. Looks at the front wheel. No motor. Looks at my bottom bracket - Cheap set of Alivio pedals, no mid-drive. With every glance, the frown on her face looks more and more like a scowl.

All she had to do was ask, and I would have told her it was electric, but the growing frown on her face was priceless.

2. A few days later, two gents riding off the shelf mid-drives pull up to me while I was on the road (Small section I don't have a dedicated bike path.) One politely asks "Mind if we cut ahead? We're both on electrics". Faced with such politeness, of course, it's "Be my guest". But within 300 meters, I am of course passing them, as they hit their 25km/h assist cut off, and I'm still pulling hard.

3. Finally, a couple weeks after that, someone clues on. There's a guy with an obviously home made bike - neat, but no way is it factory made. At first I don't want to pass him. He's doing mid 30s, and smashing up hills almost as well as I am. But finally, there's a very long straight section, no pedestrians, no drive ways, no cross roads. It's safe to take my time to inch past. Again, he catches up to me at a lights. One glance, and he says; "That's gotta be electric mate... Where's the battery and motor?" I point them out to him, and he marvels how small the whole thing is. "My build added about 14 kilos, what's yours?", "About 6", I reply. We chat a bit about oil cooling, and how using LTO battery means I don't need to worry about draining too deep, or using too high a C-Rate, so I can size my battery tiny. After 5 mins, we part ways with him hoping we run into each other again so he can ask more questions.

But anyway... The first electric bike I built used a large Golden Circle hub motor, and a bit rear rack battery. That was about 9 years ago. The amount of negative attention I got, especially from lycra riders treating the road/footpath as the Paris-Roubaix, or setting their personal best every morning... I preferred to keep a low profile. This time, I'm not saying anything unless they do first. :mrgreen:
eBike: Q100H on 16S with Phaserunner FOC Controller
eMotorscooter: Vectrix VX-1 on 36S
eCar: Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV... Waiting for warranty to expire
eHouse: 5.5kw On-grid solar with battery backup coming soon!

After 5 builds, the best advice I can give, is start with high quality products. I prefer http://www.ebikes.ca

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jonescg   1.21 GW

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Re: The joy of causing despair and confusion

Post by jonescg » Feb 13 2020 6:14am

Haha, awesome. They're coming around ;)

SlowCo   100 kW

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Re: The joy of causing despair and confusion

Post by SlowCo » Feb 13 2020 8:40am

:lol: Great read!

2old   100 kW

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Re: The joy of causing despair and confusion

Post by 2old » Feb 13 2020 10:44am

Fun! Keep the stories of consternation coming. Oh, and retain your gentlemanly attitude.

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MadRhino   100 GW

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Re: The joy of causing despair and confusion

Post by MadRhino » Feb 14 2020 4:54am

Now imagine you can see this consternation on the face of motorcycle riders. :twisted:
Make it fool-proof, and I will make a better fool.
Current bikes
Street: https://s20.postimg.org/ewrvugywt/Session_04_2015.jpg
Dirt: https://s20.postimg.org/lbqwr55ml/IMG_0157.jpg

whereswally606   100 kW

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Re: The joy of causing despair and confusion

Post by whereswally606 » Feb 14 2020 5:18am

Ha that's funny, i still have dh bikes with the aforementioned heavy magic pie hub motor. thing is i'm usually running the cute white husky so people are often more interested in her than the bike. I also often have one or two of my sons either in a towed trailer or on the crossbar child seat between my arms. again more distraction for onlookers.

The weight thing is of interest of late. I am looking to put both mine and my wife's bikes on the back of our Nissan Leaf. With the heavy hubs and down hill frames you quickly approach weight limit of bike carriers which attach to the rear window/bumper. Now i have a curt hitch from america on order to which i will attach a type approved cycle carrier but if i went down to an oil filled 100h i wouldn't have to. Still the tow hitch is also for other things like luggage racks.

I also think if i was gonna go the for a 100h id do a plastic printed directed air blast with a high through put fan.
Distributing "Lebowski" FOC Controller PCB (Through hole) since 2016
Moped: Emax 110s 2009

John in CR   100 GW

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Re: The joy of causing despair and confusion

Post by John in CR » Feb 14 2020 7:36am

MadRhino wrote:
Feb 14 2020 4:54am
Now imagine you can see this consternation on the face of motorcycle riders. :twisted:
That's what I love doing, especially when they show disrespect and squeeze up in front of me at red lights. I feel sorry for the guys feeling the need to hide that they have an electric motor. I want everyone to know while I demonstrate what is possible right in front of police as you'll notice to my right at the beginning of the clip.

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dogman dan   100 GW

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Re: The joy of causing despair and confusion

Post by dogman dan » Feb 14 2020 9:05am

Love it. Looks like my old death race vid, except you don't just kill em on the start, but in the straight as well.

You can see the guy looking at your shit, going wtf? Then, see ya.

Re stealth, my cruiser is very much not obviously an e bike. But as faster guys training for a race pass me, they clearly know I am not pedaling that 100 pound monstrosity 20 mph on my own. And there's never any doubt, if I pass them going 35 mph.

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MadRhino   100 GW

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Re: The joy of causing despair and confusion

Post by MadRhino » Feb 14 2020 8:52pm

John in CR wrote:
Feb 14 2020 7:36am
MadRhino wrote:
Feb 14 2020 4:54am
Now imagine you can see this consternation on the face of motorcycle riders. :twisted:
That's what I love doing, especially when they show disrespect...
We enjoy the same fun John, except for the kind of music. I guess I am just half a century older. :mrgreen:
Make it fool-proof, and I will make a better fool.
Current bikes
Street: https://s20.postimg.org/ewrvugywt/Session_04_2015.jpg
Dirt: https://s20.postimg.org/lbqwr55ml/IMG_0157.jpg

John in CR   100 GW

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Re: The joy of causing despair and confusion

Post by John in CR » Feb 14 2020 11:59pm

MadRhino wrote:
Feb 14 2020 8:52pm
John in CR wrote:
Feb 14 2020 7:36am
MadRhino wrote:
Feb 14 2020 4:54am
Now imagine you can see this consternation on the face of motorcycle riders. :twisted:
That's what I love doing, especially when they show disrespect...
We enjoy the same fun John, except for the kind of music. I guess I am just half a century older. :mrgreen:
When did you turn 109? That was the closest thing to music on the free youtube stuff that my son the clip editor found. They copyright block anything I put regardless of including full credit to the artists.

john61ct   1.21 GW

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Re: The joy of causing despair and confusion

Post by john61ct » Feb 15 2020 12:15pm

yes i hated that music even as a teen

HK12K   10 kW

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Re: The joy of causing despair and confusion

Post by HK12K » Feb 15 2020 12:57pm

John in CR wrote:
Feb 14 2020 11:59pm
MadRhino wrote:
Feb 14 2020 8:52pm
John in CR wrote:
Feb 14 2020 7:36am
MadRhino wrote:
Feb 14 2020 4:54am
Now imagine you can see this consternation on the face of motorcycle riders. :twisted:
That's what I love doing, especially when they show disrespect...
We enjoy the same fun John, except for the kind of music. I guess I am just half a century older. :mrgreen:
When did you turn 109? That was the closest thing to music on the free youtube stuff that my son the clip editor found. They copyright block anything I put regardless of including full credit to the artists.
I believe you can get past that by speeding or slowing the song by x%.

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Sunder   100 MW

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Re: The joy of causing despair and confusion

Post by Sunder » Feb 15 2020 7:00pm

MadRhino wrote:
Feb 14 2020 4:54am
Now imagine you can see this consternation on the face of motorcycle riders. :twisted:
That's coming :)

Got a Ninja conversion in the works.

John in CR wrote:
Feb 14 2020 7:36am
I feel sorry for the guys feeling the need to hide that they have an electric motor. I want everyone to know while I demonstrate what is possible right in front of police as you'll notice to my right at the beginning of the clip.
As above, I'm happy to show people what's "possible" with DIY electric, but I'd still prefer to avoid the grief. With the Ninja, it will have full engineering papers showing it meets every Australian Design Rules, and not only will I not hide it, I'm intending to use electroluminescent wire and stickers to show off the fact.

Thing is for push bikes, there's "always one" that ruin it for the rest of us. A few years ago, there were a couple DIY electric bike deaths, and there was a lot of media attention and police crack downs on DIY electric bikes. Hasn't been any deaths or crackdowns for at least 3 years now though.

However, I see a lot of eBikes on UberEats/Foodora delivery services going helter skelter down packed foot paths, on cargo bikes, and seeing everyone have to dodge out of the way. Sooner or later, an elderly lady is going to dodge left, then change her mind last moment and dodge right, and get hit, and her death will be the catalyst for banning electric bikes, just like it happened for 3 or 4 years in New York. We're just a few years behind the US, so i prefer to keep a lower profile.
eBike: Q100H on 16S with Phaserunner FOC Controller
eMotorscooter: Vectrix VX-1 on 36S
eCar: Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV... Waiting for warranty to expire
eHouse: 5.5kw On-grid solar with battery backup coming soon!

After 5 builds, the best advice I can give, is start with high quality products. I prefer http://www.ebikes.ca

markz   100 GW

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Re: The joy of causing despair and confusion

Post by markz » Feb 15 2020 11:23pm

Yeah sometimes people want stealth for many different reason.
I prefer to be left alone, dont talk to me about how fast does it go, how far can you go, how much does it cost, "wow, oh neat bike"
frock off
you see me, I got my tunes, Im sitting down on the train, waiting for the train, relaxing, tapping my foot, leave me alone.
you get the glarers standing feet away, standing purposely close, walking towards and standing right there.
you get the far away glarers say 8' away
some clue in
some dont

I used to like the head turners, I still do sometimes, but its hard to stay stealthy when your going up hills faster then a human powered bicycle.

Then there are the people who want to stay stealthy from authority. Like NYC or DUI'ers or National Park riders ;)

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MadRhino   100 GW

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Re: The joy of causing despair and confusion

Post by MadRhino » Feb 15 2020 11:52pm

markz wrote:
Feb 15 2020 11:23pm
Yeah sometimes people want stealth for many different reason.
I prefer to be left alone...
Difficult to be stealthy on a powerful bike. I still make the effort to look like a bike. In the mountain I am stealth because people around are saying: ‘something just passed over there! What was it?’
:twisted:
John in CR wrote:
Feb 14 2020 11:59pm

When did you turn 109?
I remember very well John, that you are about the age of my older son. I was referring to half a century, musically speaking, because I had believed that it was your choice of sound track. :wink:
Make it fool-proof, and I will make a better fool.
Current bikes
Street: https://s20.postimg.org/ewrvugywt/Session_04_2015.jpg
Dirt: https://s20.postimg.org/lbqwr55ml/IMG_0157.jpg

John in CR   100 GW

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Re: The joy of causing despair and confusion

Post by John in CR » Feb 16 2020 5:58pm

MadRhino wrote:
Feb 15 2020 11:52pm
I was referring to half a century, musically speaking, because I had believed that it was your choice of sound track. :wink:
I like lots of good music from the 50's on, but I'm definitely a classic rocker.

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