High power ebike means none of the rules apply to me

General Discussion about electric bicycles.
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Sunder   100 MW

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Re: High power ebike means none of the rules apply to me

Post by Sunder » Oct 21 2019 9:50pm

dustNbone wrote:
Oct 06 2019 7:37pm
Yeah I don't see anything especially dangerous to the public at large there. He's even using a deadman strap!
Dangerous to their physical health or their mental health? There are a LOT of points in there, that he's trusting other drivers not to suddenly change lanes, or other things they are within their rights to do (Under standardised Australian Road Rules anyway, that video looks like it's shot in the UK somewhere).

Saying he's not doing anything dangerous, is a bit like saying suiciders who jump in front of trains aren't harming anyone else. I read a stat ages ago like 80% of train drivers who kill a suicider, aren't back at work after 12 months.

I've been riding motorbikes for nearly 20 years now. I've found there's two types of riders who think they are good - Those that can control their bikes at high speed, and never make mistakes... And those that know the stupid things other drivers do that make perfect riders crash.

The first group tend to lose members. The second group don't.
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dogman dan   100 GW

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Re: High power ebike means none of the rules apply to me

Post by dogman dan » Oct 27 2019 8:56am

Amen,, proud to be in group 2.. Not that I didn't spend too long in group one.. :roll: I was good enough to nearly die every single ride, but survive. I was riding stupid as hell.

I quit motorcycles for 30 years, till I could be in group 2. I took to safer things, like jumping off 100 foot cliffs on skis, vs riding motorcycles at 90 mph in the city.

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MadRhino   100 GW

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Re: High power ebike means none of the rules apply to me

Post by MadRhino » Oct 28 2019 2:21am

Those who categorize people in two groups, always forget a third.
Make it fool-proof, and I will make a better fool.
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Re: High power ebike means none of the rules apply to me

Post by Bigwheel » Oct 28 2019 8:00am

The other side is that the rules don't stop idiots from being idiots....https://road.cc/content/news/267863-lon ... us-driving

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Re: High power ebike means none of the rules apply to me

Post by donn » Oct 28 2019 8:51am

MadRhino wrote:
Oct 28 2019 2:21am
Those who categorize people in two groups, always forget a third.
There's two kinds of people: 1) the people who believe there are two kinds of people, and 2) the people who don't believe that.
Bigwheel wrote:
Oct 28 2019 8:00am
The other side is that the rules don't stop idiots from being idiots...
Indeed, it's always the best for everyone, if everyone can govern themselves.

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Re: High power ebike means none of the rules apply to me

Post by dustNbone » Oct 28 2019 5:26pm

Most of the lane splitting I saw in the video was done properly, as in he was going between occupied lanes. The vehicles in that case have no lane to change into, because there's already a vehicle there. It doesn't look safe at a glance but in reality there's little danger of having a vehicle change lanes into him.

This is the only circumstance under which lane splitting is safe, literally directly in between 2 vehicles travelling nearly the exact same speed. It does make some motorists nervous, because they usually aren't watching their side view mirrors and don't see it coming, but that doesn't make it dangerous.

Which brings me to general awareness of other motorists. In the UK there are quite a few motorcycles on the road, in comparison to NA and Australia at least. Looking for them is part of driving there, you are expected to make them part of the equation, as opposed to here where you can squish one with your pickup truck and just say you didn't see it. Why you failed to see it is rarely at issue.

The place I've ridden in my life where I felt the safest being a total jackass was Indonesia. So many bikes on the road, being aware of them is a huge part of successfully navigating the streets. Plus the fact that most things bigger than a bike are driven by professionals. We really need to raise the bar on who gets to drive 3 ton missles on the streets, especially when it comes to how to be aware of/interact with bikes. Most "qualified" drivers have no idea.

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Re: High power ebike means none of the rules apply to me

Post by LeftieBiker » Oct 29 2019 2:27am

Most of the lane splitting I saw in the video was done properly, as in he was going between occupied lanes. The vehicles in that case have no lane to change into, because there's already a vehicle there. It doesn't look safe at a glance but in reality there's little danger of having a vehicle change lanes into him.

This is the only circumstance under which lane splitting is safe, literally directly in between 2 vehicles travelling nearly the exact same speed. It does make some motorists nervous, because they usually aren't watching their side view mirrors and don't see it coming, but that doesn't make it dangerous.

It is dangerous exactly because it can startle other motorists into swerving. This really shouldn't have to be explained. The above is akin to the common fallacy that high speed isn't dangerous on highways, only large differences in speed between vehicles. (The laws of physics haven't been updated to reflect this theory, I'm afraid.) The need to rationalize dangerous behavior seems to be hardwired into people...

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Re: High power ebike means none of the rules apply to me

Post by john61ct » Oct 29 2019 2:33am

If safety is a high priority, and people "having fun" none at all,

everyone proceeds pretty much at the same leisurely pace.

If you believe safety should be sacrificed even a tiny bit so that some people can get a thrill like this in a built-up high traffic area,

well then I just do not know how to have a civil discussion about that.

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dogman dan   100 GW

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Re: High power ebike means none of the rules apply to me

Post by dogman dan » Oct 29 2019 7:35am

Of course, there are a thousand groups. I just spent time in the two of them mentioned. I quit riding till I got some self control. So I skipped over all those other groups in between before I would let myself own a motorcycle again. I just had to mature, to ride street with any hope of survival.

Some say lane splitting is safe, others not. I do it all the time. I split the lane every time cars drive into my lane, trying to kill me. I'm good at it, still alive. But I don't split lanes to get past cars just to get there faster. That was group 1 behavior. Passing cars to get there faster just means you rely on that car staying on that side of his lane. I DO NOT trust any car to stay in its lane at all, let alone drive in a straight line in a lane. If cars were stopped on the freeway, I would not trust a car then. Some fu--head would open a door to empty his ashtray, or cup of ice. The time I spent in group 1 stripped away all my trust. But when cars start stopping on the freeway unexpectedly, I immediately split a lane so that guy watching his phone will hit the car next to me, instead of me. I watched a guy on a Harley get sandwiched once, it was real bad.

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Re: High power ebike means none of the rules apply to me

Post by khorse » Oct 30 2019 11:54pm

LeftieBiker wrote:
Oct 29 2019 2:27am
It is dangerous exactly because it can startle other motorists into swerving. This really shouldn't have to be explained.
It sounds like you're used to the extremely low standard of skill typical of third world failed states like african warzones or the USA.

If you were the kind of person to swerve your car about because someone overtook you on a bike, you'd never ever get a British driving licence. Never ever ever. Your driving instructor would fire you as a student and warn others about you.

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Re: High power ebike means none of the rules apply to me

Post by LeftieBiker » Oct 31 2019 6:23am

khorse wrote:
Oct 30 2019 11:54pm
LeftieBiker wrote:
Oct 29 2019 2:27am
It is dangerous exactly because it can startle other motorists into swerving. This really shouldn't have to be explained.
It sounds like you're used to the extremely low standard of skill typical of third world failed states like african warzones or the USA.

If you were the kind of person to swerve your car about because someone overtook you on a bike, you'd never ever get a British driving licence. Never ever ever. Your driving instructor would fire you as a student and warn others about you.

Those of us who have survived to old age riding bicycles and motorcycles do it by following a philosophy already mentioned above: assume that everyone else on the road is trying to kill you, and is just waiting for the right moment to catch you off guard. Those who rely on the driving skills and attentiveness of others are usually disappointed at some point - often fatally disappointed.

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dogman dan   100 GW

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Re: High power ebike means none of the rules apply to me

Post by dogman dan » Oct 31 2019 8:36am

More likely they swerved because they were texting, and never saw you here in the USA. But you do see a lot of people get startled by something, swerve, and then roll the car.

When I was 18 I visited London for a month. People were astonished that I had a drivers license that young. Definitely a different standard, but you can still see lots of video of stupid drivers in England, or anywhere.

But have to admit, here, its there is a lot of stupid drivers, which is why I lost all trust at all. Trust = death.


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Re: High power ebike means none of the rules apply to me

Post by Ianhill » Oct 31 2019 10:07am

khorse wrote:
Oct 30 2019 11:54pm
LeftieBiker wrote:
Oct 29 2019 2:27am
It is dangerous exactly because it can startle other motorists into swerving. This really shouldn't have to be explained.
It sounds like you're used to the extremely low standard of skill typical of third world failed states like african warzones or the USA.

If you were the kind of person to swerve your car about because someone overtook you on a bike, you'd never ever get a British driving licence. Never ever ever. Your driving instructor would fire you as a student and warn others about you.
True but people don't go Into a chase with a learner vehicle they tend to use their own after gaining a sence of security in the metal box they then want to rage at anyone that gets in it's way there plenty of video evidence of poor driving in the UK I live there and see it daily.

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MadRhino   100 GW

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Re: High power ebike means none of the rules apply to me

Post by MadRhino » Oct 31 2019 10:52am

Drivers licence means nothing. People are killed by licensed drivers, two per minute in the world. A lot of drivers should never be allowed to drive, but none of the tests to obtain a drivers licence are about psychology.
Make it fool-proof, and I will make a better fool.
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Re: High power ebike means none of the rules apply to me

Post by Balmorhea » Oct 31 2019 11:25am

MadRhino wrote:
Oct 31 2019 10:52am
A lot of drivers should never be allowed to drive,
Fixed that for you.

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Re: High power ebike means none of the rules apply to me

Post by MadRhino » Oct 31 2019 11:39am

Balmorhea wrote:
Oct 31 2019 11:25am
MadRhino wrote:
Oct 31 2019 10:52am
A lot of drivers should never be allowed to drive,
Fixed that for you.
:D
Good point

Only a planetary scale cataclysm could make it happen.
Make it fool-proof, and I will make a better fool.
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Re: High power ebike means none of the rules apply to me

Post by khorse » Nov 01 2019 2:03am

dogman dan wrote:
Oct 31 2019 8:36am
More likely they swerved because they were texting, and never saw you here in the USA. But you do see a lot of people get startled by something, swerve, and then roll the car.

When I was 18 I visited London for a month. People were astonished that I had a drivers license that young. Definitely a different standard, but you can still see lots of video of stupid drivers in England, or anywhere.

But have to admit, here, its there is a lot of stupid drivers, which is why I lost all trust at all. Trust = death.
Out of curiosity I went and looked up if any americans had done a UK test and found this video

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JFiU_jPNkiI

This is a man who's got a USA licence but he never even so much as uses his mirrors, nevermind his indicators. If this is typical then I don't want to hear a yanks opinion on traffic safety ever again. Like asking harold shipman about looking after the elderly

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Re: High power ebike means none of the rules apply to me

Post by markz » Nov 01 2019 3:58am

That is because he never legitimately did not pass a test, just bribed the driving school or the tester, its been known to happen. Also in India or Pakistan all they have to do is start the car, drive 8 feet and they have passed the test, and their license is transferable. It was literally a contestant on Canada's Worst Driver tv show where they discussed that. Even then, you could probably just slip the 3rd world tester a $1usd and you wouldnt have to do anything else. $1usd is like $1000usd to them. You could even have a passport for two countries, yet still get an International drivers license from said 3rd world country and call it a day. Heck if you are Jewish, you could even change your name on that passport, saw that on a tv show of the biggest dead beat dad in the world who skipped the country. He owed millions, court lasted decades, I think he was a pyschologist or a pyschiatrist to the rock stars. There are other ways to drive without having nothing at all, fake plates though in the UK they have plate scanners, not so in North America, aside the parking maids rover.
khorse wrote:
Nov 01 2019 2:03am
This is a man who's got a USA licence but he never even so much as uses his mirrors, nevermind his indicators. If this is typical then I don't want to hear a yanks opinion on traffic safety ever again. Like asking harold shipman about looking after the elderly

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Re: High power ebike means none of the rules apply to me

Post by wturber » Nov 01 2019 8:57am

khorse wrote:
Nov 01 2019 2:03am

This is a man who's got a USA licence but he never even so much as uses his mirrors, nevermind his indicators. If this is typical then I don't want to hear a yanks opinion on traffic safety ever again. Like asking harold shipman about looking after the elderly
I've seen a video from the UK where a driver intentionally rear ends a cyclist that he found annoying. So I'd be careful about generalizing from one example.
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Re: High power ebike means none of the rules apply to me

Post by Ianhill » Nov 01 2019 8:59am

Shall we tall about the us woman that just run a young kid on a motorbike down killed him claimed diplomatic immunity and fled the country.

You can be senna for all I care no one can escape death it's coming to us all, but some try to stare it out, dare it into having a bash.

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Re: High power ebike means none of the rules apply to me

Post by dustNbone » Nov 01 2019 9:44pm

wturber wrote:
Nov 01 2019 8:57am


I've seen a video from the UK where a driver intentionally rear ends a cyclist that he found annoying. So I'd be careful about generalizing from one example.
There is a difference between careless driving and intentional assault with a deadly weapon.

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Re: High power ebike means none of the rules apply to me

Post by wturber » Nov 02 2019 10:29am

dustNbone wrote:
Nov 01 2019 9:44pm
wturber wrote:
Nov 01 2019 8:57am


I've seen a video from the UK where a driver intentionally rear ends a cyclist that he found annoying. So I'd be careful about generalizing from one example.
There is a difference between careless driving and intentional assault with a deadly weapon.
The point of the anecdote was the dangers of generalizing, not the particulars of the behavior.
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Re: High power ebike means none of the rules apply to me

Post by Ianhill » Nov 02 2019 4:03pm

I Drifts my bmx like Ken block through the downtown traffics I do cuz my skill level is like well off the chart beyond yours lmao.

The best race driver is the one that never presses the brake and acts like a lemming PMSL.

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Re: High power ebike means none of the rules apply to me

Post by wturber » Nov 02 2019 4:47pm

Ianhill wrote:
Nov 02 2019 4:03pm
The best race driver is the one that never presses the brake and acts like a lemming PMSL.
Sure. And they build race tracks for that or partition streets from regular traffic when they race on streets. Racing and regular day-to-day driving do not mix well.
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