GNG / CYC X1 Pro 3000w

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n2mb   100 W

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Re: GNG / CYC X1 Pro 3000w

Post by n2mb » May 27 2020 12:54pm

Ham wrote:
May 27 2020 12:46pm
Why do you not use the standard cyc controller for those kind of power requirement? I am very close to getting one of these kits with the standard controller for mostly PAS use and some throttle for fun up the hills
I have the gen 1 kit and the gen 1 controller is pretty bad. You can't use the throttle reliably. Eventually, you'll blow up the controller using the throttle to start from a stop. There's some bug in the latest firmware.

I think the gen 2 (current) controller is better, but still has a lot of throttle lag. Hopefully they will fix that eventually. The gen 2 controller isn't really compatible with the gen 1 kit, unless you upgrade to the torque sensing BB. I'm fine with keeping PAS.

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Re: GNG / CYC X1 Pro 3000w

Post by jjstripes » May 27 2020 1:27pm

Looking at batteries for a gen 2, can anyone provide me advice on what type of connector the battery should have? I see the Anderson Powerpole is a common one available online. I'd like to be able to remove the battery from the bike easily so I can bring it inside to charge. Thanks

n2mb   100 W

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Re: GNG / CYC X1 Pro 3000w

Post by n2mb » May 27 2020 1:37pm

Battery should have xt90s female.

VizineVizion   1 mW

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Re: GNG / CYC X1 Pro 3000w

Post by VizineVizion » May 27 2020 2:29pm

jjstripes wrote:
May 27 2020 1:27pm
Looking at batteries for a gen 2, can anyone provide me advice on what type of connector the battery should have? I see the Anderson Powerpole is a common one available online. I'd like to be able to remove the battery from the bike easily so I can bring it inside to charge. Thanks
Just get a hailong shark of some short. I have a 12ah 20s4p shark pack from Eco Cycles and it rips.

Typical XT-90 connector

n2mb   100 W

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Re: GNG / CYC X1 Pro 3000w

Post by n2mb » May 27 2020 6:12pm

VizineVizion wrote:
May 27 2020 2:29pm
jjstripes wrote:
May 27 2020 1:27pm
Looking at batteries for a gen 2, can anyone provide me advice on what type of connector the battery should have? I see the Anderson Powerpole is a common one available online. I'd like to be able to remove the battery from the bike easily so I can bring it inside to charge. Thanks
Just get a hailong shark of some short. I have a 12ah 20s4p shark pack from Eco Cycles and it rips.

Typical XT-90 connector
Nice. Or this:
https://bicyclemotorworks.com/product/7 ... e-battery/

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Re: GNG / CYC X1 Pro 3000w

Post by 999zip999 » May 27 2020 7:05pm

N2mb do you have this battery ? And what you use it with ?

n2mb   100 W

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Re: GNG / CYC X1 Pro 3000w

Post by n2mb » May 27 2020 7:11pm

999zip999 wrote:
May 27 2020 7:05pm
N2mb do you have this battery ? And what you use it with ?
I don't have it, but I've thought about getting it to use with the BAC 855. The Samsung 40T cells put out huge amps (35/45A peak each), so it should have plenty of power for the BAC 855 or stock Gen 2 controller.

flat tire   1 MW

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Re: GNG / CYC X1 Pro 3000w

Post by flat tire » May 28 2020 5:09pm

n2mb wrote:
May 27 2020 6:11am
How much power are you running?
Peak power is only around 3kw. But drivetrain stress is determined not so much by power, but by torque and how fast that torque comes on.

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Re: GNG / CYC X1 Pro 3000w

Post by n2mb » May 29 2020 8:32am

flat tire wrote:
May 28 2020 5:09pm
n2mb wrote:
May 27 2020 6:11am
How much power are you running?
Peak power is only around 3kw. But drivetrain stress is determined not so much by power, but by torque and how fast that torque comes on.
I guess it's the extra phase current you have. I haven't seen any of that wear with the stock controller.

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Re: GNG / CYC X1 Pro 3000w

Post by flat tire » May 29 2020 7:28pm

n2mb wrote:
May 29 2020 8:32am
I guess it's the extra phase current you have. I haven't seen any of that wear with the stock controller.
Yes. The phase current is basically uncontrolled it says like 300 amps. Even though it engages smoothly, there is a CRAPTON of torque available during the short plateau. It's actually excessive and an experienced motorcyclist looped one of my X1 bikes on takeoff cuz had never ridden one before and didn't believe the warnings not to pin the throttle lol. It went flying.

filth   10 mW

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Re: GNG / CYC X1 Pro 3000w

Post by filth » Jun 05 2020 5:57am

Anyone got a wiring diagramm for the 2-1 / 4-1 loom on the CYC X1 pro gen2? I accidentally ordered the 2-1 but need to add at least one brake contact.

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Re: GNG / CYC X1 Pro 3000w

Post by arka » Jun 08 2020 8:03am

A request to people who have had CYC Motor for a long time or have more experience. Could you share your CODE SETTINGS by adding them to this thread? The next people could add something from themselves and together we will create better settings. I know we have different drives and different batteries, so it's good to add this to the thread.

People who, like me, are just beginning their adventure with this drive should write what parameters they are looking for.
- Felt redemption 3 HUB:
Sabvoton SVMC72100 (M)
Mxus v3 3K-Turbo 16x4T
67V 16s16p Sanio GA
EV Computer
- Giant Yukon FX 2 MID:
TSDZ2 750W
13s5p 48V 17,5Ah 840Wh Sanyo NCR18650GA

arka   10 mW

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Re: GNG / CYC X1 Pro 3000w

Post by arka » Jun 08 2020 8:05am

arka wrote:
Jun 08 2020 8:03am
A request to people who have had CYC Motor for a long time or have more experience. Could you share your CODE SETTINGS by adding them to this thread? The next people could add something from themselves and together we will create better settings. I know we have different drives and different batteries, so it's good to add this to the thread.

People who, like me, are just beginning their adventure with this drive should write what parameters they are looking for.
I'll start with myself. I've had GEN 2 for a few days now. My bike is downhill Mondraker Summum 27.5' whell. I have a 52V 17.5Ah Sanyo GA 840Wh 14S5P battery. The rear gear is dedicated for electricians Sram EX1 / 11-48s, in front I had 11/63T with a 38T sprocket but I changed the sprocket to custom 34T.
My driving style is aggressive in the mountains or in the forest. I am looking for two settings:

MODE 1. driving with maximum power at maximum speeds, mainly on the thumb trottle.
MODE 2: As close as possible to the serial ebike with a Torque Sensor like Bosch. Where speed is not limited. But 100% of the ride is on the Torque Sensor, derailleur gears are often flipped. I need this MODE to ride with people in the mountains who ride a serial ebike.
- Felt redemption 3 HUB:
Sabvoton SVMC72100 (M)
Mxus v3 3K-Turbo 16x4T
67V 16s16p Sanio GA
EV Computer
- Giant Yukon FX 2 MID:
TSDZ2 750W
13s5p 48V 17,5Ah 840Wh Sanyo NCR18650GA

filth   10 mW

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Re: GNG / CYC X1 Pro 3000w

Post by filth » Jun 08 2020 8:52am

Is it actually possible to drive the X1 Pro with the torque sensor in PAS only mode? If yes, how do I set it up?

joshuahuang   1 mW

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Re: GNG / CYC X1 Pro 3000w

Post by joshuahuang » Jun 08 2020 6:42pm

arka wrote:
Jun 08 2020 8:05am
arka wrote:
Jun 08 2020 8:03am
A request to people who have had CYC Motor for a long time or have more experience. Could you share your CODE SETTINGS by adding them to this thread? The next people could add something from themselves and together we will create better settings. I know we have different drives and different batteries, so it's good to add this to the thread.

People who, like me, are just beginning their adventure with this drive should write what parameters they are looking for.
I'll start with myself. I've had GEN 2 for a few days now. My bike is downhill Mondraker Summum 27.5' whell. I have a 52V 17.5Ah Sanyo GA 840Wh 14S5P battery. The rear gear is dedicated for electricians Sram EX1 / 11-48s, in front I had 11/63T with a 38T sprocket but I changed the sprocket to custom 34T.
My driving style is aggressive in the mountains or in the forest. I am looking for two settings:

MODE 1. driving with maximum power at maximum speeds, mainly on the thumb trottle.
MODE 2: As close as possible to the serial ebike with a Torque Sensor like Bosch. Where speed is not limited. But 100% of the ride is on the Torque Sensor, derailleur gears are often flipped. I need this MODE to ride with people in the mountains who ride a serial ebike.
how many watt hrs of cells can you fit in the mondraker frame? or do you use a backpack battery?

arka   10 mW

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Re: GNG / CYC X1 Pro 3000w

Post by arka » Jun 09 2020 3:51am

joshuahuang wrote:
Jun 08 2020 6:42pm
arka wrote:
Jun 08 2020 8:05am
arka wrote:
Jun 08 2020 8:03am
A request to people who have had CYC Motor for a long time or have more experience. Could you share your CODE SETTINGS by adding them to this thread? The next people could add something from themselves and together we will create better settings. I know we have different drives and different batteries, so it's good to add this to the thread.

People who, like me, are just beginning their adventure with this drive should write what parameters they are looking for.
I'll start with myself. I've had GEN 2 for a few days now. My bike is downhill Mondraker Summum 27.5' whell. I have a 52V 17.5Ah Sanyo GA 840Wh 14S5P battery. The rear gear is dedicated for electricians Sram EX1 / 11-48s, in front I had 11/63T with a 38T sprocket but I changed the sprocket to custom 34T.
My driving style is aggressive in the mountains or in the forest. I am looking for two settings:

MODE 1. driving with maximum power at maximum speeds, mainly on the thumb trottle.
MODE 2: As close as possible to the serial ebike with a Torque Sensor like Bosch. Where speed is not limited. But 100% of the ride is on the Torque Sensor, derailleur gears are often flipped. I need this MODE to ride with people in the mountains who ride a serial ebike.
how many watt hrs of cells can you fit in the mondraker frame? or do you use a backpack battery?
70 or 140 if you put them in 2 rows.
- Felt redemption 3 HUB:
Sabvoton SVMC72100 (M)
Mxus v3 3K-Turbo 16x4T
67V 16s16p Sanio GA
EV Computer
- Giant Yukon FX 2 MID:
TSDZ2 750W
13s5p 48V 17,5Ah 840Wh Sanyo NCR18650GA

knurf   100 W

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Re: GNG / CYC X1 Pro 3000w

Post by knurf » Jun 09 2020 12:36pm

I'm experimenting and aiming to push peak 100 amps at 52v through the gen 1 motor using a CC Talon 120 controller. I only run offroad and more interested in torque than top speed at this point.

Take-off is super smooth and full throttle with wheel in the air is also flawless, however when under real driving the amps start to creep up around 55 I get violent jumping behaviour, like the motor repeatedly throwing itself in reverse for a split second and then going forward.

This controller used to drive my Tangent motor (and even played the main part in literally tearing it apart..) to well over 120 amps with no such jerkiness, never seen that before. Anyone know what could cause this? Is the motor just not fit for currents larger than around 50 amps?

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Re: GNG / CYC X1 Pro 3000w

Post by Tommm » Jun 09 2020 1:59pm

knurf wrote:
Jun 09 2020 12:36pm
I'm experimenting and aiming to push peak 100 amps at 52v through the gen 1 motor using a CC Talon 120 controller. I only run offroad and more interested in torque than top speed at this point.

Take-off is super smooth and full throttle with wheel in the air is also flawless, however when under real driving the amps start to creep up around 55 I get violent jumping behaviour, like the motor repeatedly throwing itself in reverse for a split second and then going forward.

This controller used to drive my Tangent motor (and even played the main part in literally tearing it apart..) to well over 120 amps with no such jerkiness, never seen that before. Anyone know what could cause this? Is the motor just not fit for currents larger than around 50 amps?
Interesting, the motor does that starting from 0 for me up to 5kph, no matter the power. So I got a different controller.

filth   10 mW

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Re: GNG / CYC X1 Pro 3000w

Post by filth » Jun 09 2020 2:13pm

Does the Talon controller support 14s?

knurf   100 W

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Re: GNG / CYC X1 Pro 3000w

Post by knurf » Jun 09 2020 2:29pm

Yeah officially it’s 12s only but it survives 57.4v without any hassle. At full 58.8v it may complain and warn tho, but I rarely go that high. Same goes for the HV80 and probably other CC ESC.

filth   10 mW

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Re: GNG / CYC X1 Pro 3000w

Post by filth » Jun 09 2020 2:41pm

How does it perform compared to the stock controller?

knurf   100 W

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Re: GNG / CYC X1 Pro 3000w

Post by knurf » Jun 09 2020 2:43pm

Throttle response is damn near perfect and startup excellent with the Talon and HV80. I just can't seem to break through to the higher amps without the violent shaking (bike almost self destructs).

--

Actually, now that I think about it, I get the almost same kind of problem driving this motor with a Phaserunner (sensored). As soon as the real fun starts (2000w+) @52v, I get phase overcurrent errors and the Phaserunner requires a power cycle to play ball again.

I've dialed the settings for hours and tried everything but can't seem to fully escape those phase over current stops. Just realised it seems to occur at the same battery amp level. But the Phaserunner also seems to suffer these stops when the rear wheel suddenly gets some air while being under high load.

As it looks now, the only way to get some high power from this motor is going for voltage and appropriate gearing, rather than raw amps. So I'm thinking my best bet might be the Phaserunner, keeping the amps low (<50 A) but run 20-21s voltage. Any thoughts?

flat tire   1 MW

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Re: GNG / CYC X1 Pro 3000w

Post by flat tire » Jun 09 2020 6:16pm

knurf wrote:
Jun 09 2020 2:43pm
Throttle response is damn near perfect and startup excellent with the Talon and HV80. I just can't seem to break through to the higher amps without the violent shaking (bike almost self destructs).

...

As it looks now, the only way to get some high power from this motor is going for voltage and appropriate gearing, rather than raw amps. So I'm thinking my best bet might be the Phaserunner, keeping the amps low (<50 A) but run 20-21s voltage. Any thoughts?
How are you running your throttle? I use HV160 and no shaking or problems. Full current allowed, 12S. Gen1 and 2 work fine.

To get high power from the motor you can forget about it. Yes, higher voltage and more reduction is the way to get high power but you will run into overheating issues. There is no beating physics and the motor is probably under 90% efficient with a real world workload. Take 10%+ of your input power and that will be turned into heat, no matter if that power is high voltage low current or vice versa. To see some numbers on this look up a heat sink calculator, and start crying when you plug in your 300-600 watts waste heat and the very small volume of the X1 heatsink.

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Re: GNG / CYC X1 Pro 3000w

Post by knurf » Jun 10 2020 12:27am

flat tire wrote:
Jun 09 2020 6:16pm
knurf wrote:
Jun 09 2020 2:43pm
Throttle response is damn near perfect and startup excellent with the Talon and HV80. I just can't seem to break through to the higher amps without the violent shaking (bike almost self destructs).

...

As it looks now, the only way to get some high power from this motor is going for voltage and appropriate gearing, rather than raw amps. So I'm thinking my best bet might be the Phaserunner, keeping the amps low (<50 A) but run 20-21s voltage. Any thoughts?
How are you running your throttle? I use HV160 and no shaking or problems. Full current allowed, 12S. Gen1 and 2 work fine.

To get high power from the motor you can forget about it. Yes, higher voltage and more reduction is the way to get high power but you will run into overheating issues. There is no beating physics and the motor is probably under 90% efficient with a real world workload. Take 10%+ of your input power and that will be turned into heat, no matter if that power is high voltage low current or vice versa. To see some numbers on this look up a heat sink calculator, and start crying when you plug in your 300-600 watts waste heat and the very small volume of the X1 heatsink.
Via a cycle analyst. But it's not a problem with full throttle, that works just fine. Its only a problem when the amps get serious. Didn't you use to have problems reaching higher amps?

All these small motors heat up quick, but it seems way better than the Tangent was. Just spinning that gearbox at full speed, without any load was like 250-300W. Anyway, I'm only looking for bursts of 100 amps, so heat would be managable, if I could just get there.

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Re: GNG / CYC X1 Pro 3000w

Post by knurf » Jun 10 2020 12:28am

knurf wrote:
Jun 10 2020 12:27am
flat tire wrote:
Jun 09 2020 6:16pm
knurf wrote:
Jun 09 2020 2:43pm
Throttle response is damn near perfect and startup excellent with the Talon and HV80. I just can't seem to break through to the higher amps without the violent shaking (bike almost self destructs).

...

As it looks now, the only way to get some high power from this motor is going for voltage and appropriate gearing, rather than raw amps. So I'm thinking my best bet might be the Phaserunner, keeping the amps low (<50 A) but run 20-21s voltage. Any thoughts?
How are you running your throttle? I use HV160 and no shaking or problems. Full current allowed, 12S. Gen1 and 2 work fine.

To get high power from the motor you can forget about it. Yes, higher voltage and more reduction is the way to get high power but you will run into overheating issues. There is no beating physics and the motor is probably under 90% efficient with a real world workload. Take 10%+ of your input power and that will be turned into heat, no matter if that power is high voltage low current or vice versa. To see some numbers on this look up a heat sink calculator, and start crying when you plug in your 300-600 watts waste heat and the very small volume of the X1 heatsink.
Via a cycle analyst. But it's not a problem with full throttle, that works just fine. Its only a problem when the amps and rpm get serious. Didn't you use to have problems reaching higher amps?

All these small motors heat up quick, but it seems way better than the Tangent was. Just spinning that gearbox at full speed, without any load was like 250-300W. Anyway, I'm only looking for bursts of 100 amps, so heat would be managable, if I could just get there.

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