GNG / CYC X1 Pro 3000w

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Tommm   10 kW

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Re: GNG / CYC X1 Pro 3000w

Post by Tommm » Dec 22 2019 9:26am

fullofdays wrote:
Dec 22 2019 9:19am
So I ordered an x1 pro and this came in the mail. Little confused!!?! Not sure what to do. Image

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk
You got the upgraded cyclone kit, pretty sweet kit by itsef, cheap too.

https://www.gngebike.com/gng-2019-3000w

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Re: GNG / CYC X1 Pro 3000w

Post by fullofdays » Dec 22 2019 9:53am

There's no display or wiring or sensors with the motor. Just a controller.

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk


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Re: GNG / CYC X1 Pro 3000w

Post by Tommm » Dec 22 2019 10:06am

fullofdays wrote:
Dec 22 2019 9:53am
There's no display or wiring or sensors with the motor. Just a controller.

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk
A lot of kits are without display. The controller has a power switch probably, a thin red wire labelled power, goes on battery + side. Put an inline 2 position switch and you
have a power switch.
If that black ring next to the throttle is a PAS ring you have pas too. If you have a bluetooth dongle hanging out the of controller, you can change settings with an app.

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Re: GNG / CYC X1 Pro 3000w

Post by ScooterMan101 » Dec 22 2019 12:21pm

They sent you the 2019 3000w Cyclone kit .

How much did you pay in U.S. Dollars for it with shipping ?

There is a thread on the GNG 2019 3000w Cyclone kit.
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... 2#p1517414

Go that thread and feel free to ask questions as to how to best install it .

B.T.W. the X1-Pro is only 2 or around 2.5 pounds lighter so do not feel too bad you did not get the X1-Pro , unless you paid the higher price , since from what I have read the 3000w cyclone is easier to get up and running .

But on the other hand the X1-Pro looks to be a little smaller in size , so if you are going to be doing technical single track trails and jumping over logs/rocks the X1-Pro would probably be better , also considering you can put the X1-Pro up into the frame.

fullofdays wrote:
Dec 22 2019 9:19am
So I ordered an x1 pro and this came in the mail. Little confused!!?! Not sure what to do. Image

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk
Last edited by ScooterMan101 on Dec 24 2019 1:15pm, edited 3 times in total.
My first conversion ... Sold

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=71378&p=1077497&hil ... 1#p1077497

It's 2018 already, ( now 2019 ) lets get some real , improved e-bike / e-velomobile / e-motorcycle designs .

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Re: GNG / CYC X1 Pro 3000w

Post by ScooterMan101 » Dec 22 2019 12:28pm

And/Or use a XT 90 Anti Spark Connector/s to connect the battery to the controller .

https://www.amazon.com/Amass-Connector- ... 312&sr=8-2

https://hobbyking.com/en_us/xt90-s-anti ... s-bag.html



Tommm wrote:
Dec 22 2019 10:06am

A lot of kits are without display. The controller has a power switch probably, a thin red wire labelled power, goes on battery + side. Put an inline 2 position switch and you
have a power switch.
If that black ring next to the throttle is a PAS ring you have pas too. If you have a bluetooth dongle hanging out the of controller, you can change settings with an app.
My first conversion ... Sold

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=71378&p=1077497&hil ... 1#p1077497

It's 2018 already, ( now 2019 ) lets get some real , improved e-bike / e-velomobile / e-motorcycle designs .

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Ecyclist   1 kW

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Re: GNG / CYC X1 Pro 3000w

Post by Ecyclist » Dec 24 2019 5:40pm

fullofdays wrote:
Dec 22 2019 9:19am
So I ordered an x1 pro and this came in the mail. Little confused!!?! Not sure what to do. Image

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk
Maybe you made a mistake and ordered wrong kit from the wrong place?
Don't expect from life to be easy and then it will be.
My builds:
Avian with hypocycloidal drive https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 2#p1318056
2016 GNG extreme drive https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 28&t=82252

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Re: GNG / CYC X1 Pro 3000w

Post by Föppel » Feb 14 2020 11:50am

Hey guys, like many of you, i still have problems with the Controller thats included with the kit.
I emaild Jon from CYC, maybe he can fit me out with a new, working software, but since the last controller update (almost 5 Month ago), the throttle dont works anymore... PAS never really worked, and since i tryed to update the display (via some apps on Android) , since then i have problem wih bluetooth, and cant make no more changes via the (Beta-) App.

I guess its time to try a new controller. Is the Phaserunner a good choice? it looks more plug and play then most controllers and looks pretty user friendly to get 2500W at 14s (50Voltx 50amps). What du you guys think?
Riding dirty since 1684
Fotos and Videos here : http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... =6&t=68182
Small-block Kits on 3000W+ here : https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 28&t=78861

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Re: GNG / CYC X1 Pro 3000w

Post by PaulD » Feb 17 2020 12:36am

Föppel wrote:
Feb 14 2020 11:50am
I guess its time to try a new controller. Is the Phaserunner a good choice? it looks more plug and play then most controllers and looks pretty user friendly to get 2500W at 14s (50Voltx 50amps). What du you guys think?
I just received a Gen 2 with a BAC800 controller, so a Phaserunner should be functionally the same. I haven't debugged everything yet, but I am only seeing about 1500W battery power. Not sure why, the BAC800 is programmed for 4000W. I'll have more time to work on this next week. I can post some of the key settings for the motor tuning.

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Re: GNG / CYC X1 Pro 3000w

Post by flat tire » Feb 18 2020 12:14am

Can anyone provide a better racing controller for the X1 rev2 (newest) than a Castle HV160 12S ESC?

The criteria:

--instant response, as fast as I twist, including quick on-offs
--instant high torque loop the bike if you're not careful start from zero, need low gear OK
--Several kw
--ideally, torque mode throttle

Right now the RC controller has been working flawlessly on 12S for over 1k miles and satisfies the first two criteria acceptably but not the third or fourth as it only makes <2kw peak and is a speed mode throttle. The stock controller is unacceptable because it is slow and shitty. I also have a bunch of BAC controllers and while they are awesome with hub motors they are unsuitable for racing the X1 due to inconsistent performance particularly on and off the freewheel.

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Re: GNG / CYC X1 Pro 3000w

Post by knurf » Feb 18 2020 3:00am

flat tire wrote:
Feb 18 2020 12:14am
Can anyone provide a better racing controller for the X1 rev2 (newest) than a Castle HV160 12S ESC?

The criteria:

--instant response, as fast as I twist, including quick on-offs
--instant high torque loop the bike if you're not careful start from zero, need low gear OK
--Several kw
--ideally, torque mode throttle

Right now the RC controller has been working flawlessly on 12S for over 1k miles and satisfies the first two criteria acceptably but not the third or fourth as it only makes <2kw peak and is a speed mode throttle. The stock controller is unacceptable because it is slow and shitty. I also have a bunch of BAC controllers and while they are awesome with hub motors they are unsuitable for racing the X1 due to inconsistent performance particularly on and off the freewheel.
That RC controller will be sufficient to provide at least 100A and many thousand more watts in theory. I use a similar setup as the one I ran on my Tangentbike and the controller definitely delivers that - as long as the battery doesn't sag to low, BMS cut out etc. I think it's more a question of if the power is needed/requested.

As soon as that 12s voltage spins the motor at the max rpm, there's not more for it to do and the power will drop. For me, on the current setup, the bike is the limiting factor. I can cram about 3.5kw out of it on this bike, but due to the short suspension travel and other bike properties, I cannot push it as hard as the full DH bike I also ride, because of my skill, notable frame flexing under power and my own ability to keep being on the bike...

Also compared to the Tangent setup, this motor produces ridiculously little waste heat, which should translate to a better liveliness at the same wattage. When I push it as hard as the bike will allow, I very rarely see a temp >30 deg C. Same activity level on a similar bike with an (earlier revision) Tangent might even drive me into overheating >120 deg C or at least well over 80 deg C any day. The final version Tangent drive still runs way hotter but overheating was never a problem for me there.

If you stay mostly on-road, how high have you tried gearing it? I can also imagine this motor will run insanely fast on a higher voltage setup, but that rules out these RC controllers. Feed it 20s and I would hesitate to ride it flat out without motorcycle gear..

Use a Cycle Analyst and set the throttle mode to current-mode, if you're not already doing that.

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Re: GNG / CYC X1 Pro 3000w

Post by flat tire » Feb 18 2020 4:33am

knurf wrote:
Feb 18 2020 3:00am
That RC controller will be sufficient to provide at least 100A and many thousand more watts in theory. I use a similar setup as the one I ran on my Tangentbike and the controller definitely delivers that - as long as the battery doesn't sag to low, BMS cut out etc. I think it's more a question of if the power is needed/requested.
Use a Cycle Analyst and set the throttle mode to current-mode, if you're not already doing that.
Unfortunately the controller does not do that with this motor. The peak torque is fine but the power is not there. It gets maybe about 2kw. The batteries are good for a lot more, the peak phase currents are high, and the logs say the throttle is opening all the way. I've tried changing the timing but that doesn't seem to do very much. I think 12S is too low voltage to make the desired power without flux weakening.

The throttle is thru a CA but in pass thru cuz I haven't had great results with the CA torque control and I'd rather use a very good speed control than a poor torque request. Maybe that one's a programming issue, but I dislike feedback controllers.

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Re: GNG / CYC X1 Pro 3000w

Post by knurf » Feb 18 2020 5:17am

flat tire wrote:
Feb 18 2020 4:33am
The throttle is thru a CA but in pass thru cuz I haven't had great results with the CA torque control and I'd rather use a very good speed control than a poor torque request. Maybe that one's a programming issue, but I dislike feedback controllers.
Ok I see. What are settings are you running on the CC controller? What gearing are you running, typically?

I get the feeling this motor/reduction very quickly ends up revving its max these lower voltages, should be especially true for 12s (I run it @14s) since the max rpm will be notably lower.

Only way to get my motor in the max is to find a stupidly steep hill and full throttle it. The hill also needs to be on-road, or there will be other problems like traction or balance (fun tho!). Otherwise, the motor quickly just maxes out the rpm, doesn't need to struggle and pull big amps, and I won't be going any faster in the current gear.

The rear triangle of this particular frame will eventually break from flexing at 80-100amps so I keep it pretty easy (I've killed one already).. When my tangent ultimately dies I'll put the CYC kit on my DH rig instead and see where the real limit is.

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Re: GNG / CYC X1 Pro 3000w

Post by SlowCo » Feb 18 2020 5:23am

Would the new 6F Nucular controller be able to run this motor?

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Re: GNG / CYC X1 Pro 3000w

Post by flat tire » Feb 18 2020 4:51pm

knurf wrote:
Feb 18 2020 5:17am
Ok I see. What are settings are you running on the CC controller? What gearing are you running, typically?
From memory, prop mode, insensitive current limit, high frequency pwm (24khz?) to minimize spikes.

When racing super tight trails I'm usually geared for a top speed around 26 mph. The sensorless autostart works great with this gearing and there is loop the bike torque off the line. But of course with only 2kw that torque drops off very fast. I need more power.

Of course I shift gears for 40 mph if it's on the road, but I get the exact same powerband just stretched out. The bike doesn't make any more power. 2kw is little enough power that the bike still sees max power in low gear.

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Re: GNG / CYC X1 Pro 3000w

Post by knurf » Feb 21 2020 10:47am

flat tire wrote:
Feb 18 2020 4:51pm
From memory, prop mode, insensitive current limit, high frequency pwm (24khz?) to minimize spikes.

When racing super tight trails I'm usually geared for a top speed around 26 mph. The sensorless autostart works great with this gearing and there is loop the bike torque off the line. But of course with only 2kw that torque drops off very fast. I need more power.

Of course I shift gears for 40 mph if it's on the road, but I get the exact same powerband just stretched out. The bike doesn't make any more power. 2kw is little enough power that the bike still sees max power in low gear.
I run the same settings on my CC. I also have high start power and high throttle response set, letting the CA control the throttle.

I have seen 3kw from mine at least. Can't push it much more due to the weak frame (and a bit worn rear cassette). But I don't think there's anything in the motor itself that will prevent more power - except the winding of it. Once it hits max rpm for supplied voltage that's the upper limit and the amps will start to drop, preventing huge watts. So up the voltage for more RPMs or gear it as heavy as practical.

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Re: GNG / CYC X1 Pro 3000w

Post by flat tire » Feb 21 2020 5:41pm

I'm also interested in the Nucular [sic] controller, and would REALLY love to try it out on this drive unfortunately their site has a 4 month lead time and presumably that's before coronavirus screwed up china production. Anyone got one for sale?
knurf wrote:
Feb 21 2020 10:47am
I have seen 3kw from mine at least.
It's a lot to ask, but would you be able to post a log? I can try one from my bike as well with whatever gearing you run.

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Re: GNG / CYC X1 Pro 3000w

Post by knurf » Feb 22 2020 5:25am

flat tire wrote:
Feb 21 2020 5:41pm
I'm also interested in the Nucular [sic] controller, and would REALLY love to try it out on this drive unfortunately their site has a 4 month lead time and presumably that's before coronavirus screwed up china production. Anyone got one for sale?
knurf wrote:
Feb 21 2020 10:47am
I have seen 3kw from mine at least.
It's a lot to ask, but would you be able to post a log? I can try one from my bike as well with whatever gearing you run.
Sure but I run a Talon 120, and I think that controller lacks the logging function other CCs have. I can check.

The last time I saw 3kw was on the BMS reporting, and CA also reports 60 amps (I have a limit set to 70, I think, and my CA is setup a bit cautious when nearing the limit).

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Re: GNG / CYC X1 Pro 3000w

Post by flat tire » Mar 18 2020 4:58am

Couple updates. I added a shunt to the CA and my motor peaks around 3kw with the Castle RC controller, commonly does 2k-2.5k.

I also fried a rev 2 running hard. Got too hot and phases shorted. Halls are toast too. But CYC has replacement motors for sale easy to buy. Back in business. Motor needs more cooling. Surprised more people haven't cooked these things. They're not invincible but do perform great.

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Re: GNG / CYC X1 Pro 3000w

Post by ScooterMan101 » Mar 18 2020 10:35am

rev 2 ?
Are you meaning the X1 Pro , Gen 2 ?

Which shunt did you put on / in line to the Cycle Analyst ? ( I think I saw 3 options on the Grin Website )

flat tire wrote:
Mar 18 2020 4:58am
Couple updates. I added a shunt to the CA and my motor peaks around 3kw with the Castle RC controller, commonly does 2k-2.5k.

I also fried a rev 2 running hard.
My first conversion ... Sold

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=71378&p=1077497&hil ... 1#p1077497

It's 2018 already, ( now 2019 ) lets get some real , improved e-bike / e-velomobile / e-motorcycle designs .

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Re: GNG / CYC X1 Pro 3000w

Post by flat tire » Mar 18 2020 6:30pm

ScooterMan101 wrote:
Mar 18 2020 10:35am
rev 2 ?
Are you meaning the X1 Pro , Gen 2 ?

Which shunt did you put on / in line to the Cycle Analyst ? ( I think I saw 3 options on the Grin Website )
Yes.

I used a 100A / 75 mv shunt off amazon. Shunts are universal. You can use any shunt with an appropriate range.

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Re: GNG / CYC X1 Pro 3000w

Post by john61ct » Mar 19 2020 9:44am

The mV rating usually needs to match the device.

Some like Bogart's let you calibrate to match the shunt resistance to current mapping, but that is rare.

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Re: GNG / CYC X1 Pro 3000w

Post by flat tire » Mar 19 2020 2:01pm

john61ct wrote:
Mar 19 2020 9:44am
The mV rating usually needs to match the device.

Some like Bogart's let you calibrate to match the shunt resistance to current mapping, but that is rare.
What a joker. It's a CA and yes wow everybody knows the CA lets you calibrate the shunt value. And you can find resistance from v drop at rated amperage using...OHM'S law.

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Re: GNG / CYC X1 Pro 3000w

Post by john61ct » Mar 19 2020 3:08pm

I was just correcting your "Shunts are universal" overgeneralization.

Only for devices that can calibrate, and thanks for the info that CA can do, that's news to this joker 8-D

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Re: GNG / CYC X1 Pro 3000w

Post by n2mb » Apr 05 2020 10:57am

What's the word on how the ASI BAC800 works with the X1 pro at 52V?

I've fried the stock Gen 1 controller now twice using the throttle. I'm looking to upgrade to a new controller. In the meantime, I might try fixing the stock controller to get it working again while we're still social distancing. Anyone have one apart and know what MOSFETs are in there yet? I'm guessing one or more of the FETs blew from bad firmware. Both have failed from using the throttle from a stop.

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Re: GNG / CYC X1 Pro 3000w

Post by flat tire » Apr 07 2020 12:28am

OK I threw a APD HV Pro 20S ESC on this bizzatch and it now is pulling good power. Steady state 3+ peak 6kw. Need to do more testing. So as far as I know this is the only tested working alternative to the ASI controllers for higher voltage.

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