GNG / CYC X1 Pro 3000w

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n2mb   100 W

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Re: GNG / CYC X1 Pro 3000w

Post by n2mb » Jun 28 2019 7:01pm

ScooterMan101 wrote:
Jun 28 2019 5:49pm
sI laughed when Eric was confused about the price,
early in the video he was hinting that it was not worth $ 600 , then one of his crew clicked on the GNG website and showed it is $ 800 which got Eric even more disappointed in it.

Eric , it was $ 600, $ 638 give or take a couple of U.S. dollars, but when I went to the GNG website two days ago it now is listed as $ 800 . They Raised the price ahead of this weekend meeting between the U.S. and China . Not a smart thing to do on GNG's part .

Looks like we will be seeing more U.S. Designed RC motor e-bike DIY kits in the future . ( Which is a Good Thing ! )
That seems a bit ridiculous when he sells the BBSHD for $700, plus another $40 for a color display to match, plus another $40 to upgrade the chain ring.... It's basically the same price as the BBSHD, but over twice the power, same weight or less. It seems like Eric is a bit biased on this one. Maybe CYC wasn't willing to sell to him?

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Re: GNG / CYC X1 Pro 3000w

Post by dirkdiggler » Jun 28 2019 9:57pm

I'll admit I ended up watching the whole thing for the entertainment value. For some reason Eric cracks me up. A bit too much dope smoked. He's smart and dumb at the same time. How does he not know what a stator is? How many times was he told that it wasn't a belt drive, but the gears meshed? Plus, why do you weigh the cranks as part of the package? I'll stop there. It's a good thing Jackson was there to give some real input. At least he knows his stuff.
I was hoping for much more out of this kit. I love my cyclone with all it's flaws, but keep hoping to get an improved version. Seems like the ebike market does need competition like in multimotor. It will take someone with deep pockets and vision, especially now with every bike company around making ebikes. I even saw bikesdirect has a few ebike models. Crazy! The diy market just might be dead. Don't know if that is good or bad. But it will be bad in the sense that bikes over 350 watts won't exist. Coming from the eskateboard area, I wouldn't waste time doing a diy board anymore. It's about there with bikes. I actually picked up a Haibike this year because I found myself riding the surron all the time and kind of stopped pedaling. Super frustrating to have to buy a poorly designed $800 Bosch battery that's a dog pile at 36v. Everything is proprietary on the bike.
It's nice to see videos like this though, I wish there were more. I do appreciate the tear down to see how it was designed with both the positives and negatives. I wouldn't rip my brand new $800 kit apart. (Btw, I never saw it listed for $600, was that true?) Magnets being misaligned was a big turnoff. Hope to see the follow up with the impressions of it installed.

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Re: GNG / CYC X1 Pro 3000w

Post by ScooterMan101 » Jun 28 2019 10:29pm

Also the putty/epoxy that Jackson flicked off with his finger that was put on to balance it is a Big Problem.

It would only take another 10-20 minutes to balance it properly , however until GNG balances it right they will be spending Hours dealing with pissed off customers demanding they fix the motor or get a refund .

It was about $ 640 a couple of months ago, however that was before a PAS which was somewhere around + $ 40 then another option which I have forgotten about as I write this, and then add on the nearly $ 135 in shipping costs.
So the total cost was around $ 810 with a few options and shipping.

Looks like I will be using rear hub motors until mid-drive's
get better and the prices come down .

dirkdiggler wrote:
Jun 28 2019 9:57pm

It's nice to see videos like this though, I wish there were more. I do appreciate the tear down to see how it was designed with both the positives and negatives. I wouldn't rip my brand new $800 kit apart. (Btw, I never saw it listed for $600, was that true?) Magnets being misaligned was a big turnoff. Hope to see the follow up with the impressions of it installed.
Last edited by ScooterMan101 on Jun 29 2019 3:25am, edited 1 time in total.
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It's 2018 already, ( now 2019 ) lets get some real , improved e-bike / e-velomobile / e-motorcycle designs .

knurf   100 W

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Re: GNG / CYC X1 Pro 3000w

Post by knurf » Jun 29 2019 12:57am

I think Eric looked surprisingly incompetent in that video, and it was like he decided before hand that this unit was crap. He also had a real hard time understanding the two setups and their differences. I’ve looked at the price for a few weeks now and it’s been 810 all the time, at least from my country.
Jackson(?) the mechanic was way more interesting and knowledgeable, less partial as well.
Eric is kinda afraid of this product I guess..

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Re: GNG / CYC X1 Pro 3000w

Post by Tommm » Jun 29 2019 2:29am

knurf wrote:
Jun 29 2019 12:57am
I think Eric looked surprisingly incompetent in that video, and it was like he decided before hand that this unit was crap. He also had a real hard time understanding the two setups and their differences. I’ve looked at the price for a few weeks now and it’s been 810 all the time, at least from my country.
Jackson(?) the mechanic was way more interesting and knowledgeable, less partial as well.
Eric is kinda afraid of this product I guess..
The way you watch these vids is to ignore their opinion and watch the vid like a hawk for facts you can deduce your own opinion from.

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Re: GNG / CYC X1 Pro 3000w

Post by aCeMadMod » Jun 29 2019 2:47am

I whach the whole youtube things. It a business they all need make money.

If cyclone make potted 4800 watt motor . They sould add water tubes i buy it.
This motor well made for the money
Why do think E.s ban users before ? What i know some From luna cant post here

My mod c3000 sound better then other motor i had.

My guess it a 4500 watt motor now

I just dont care up my volts.

It 2 world part inrunner outruner in sound and power



This be only post here good luck 😎 all
Last edited by aCeMadMod on Jun 29 2019 3:39am, edited 1 time in total.

knurf   100 W

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Re: GNG / CYC X1 Pro 3000w

Post by knurf » Jun 29 2019 2:56am

Tommm wrote:
Jun 29 2019 2:29am
knurf wrote:
Jun 29 2019 12:57am
I think Eric looked surprisingly incompetent in that video, and it was like he decided before hand that this unit was crap. He also had a real hard time understanding the two setups and their differences. I’ve looked at the price for a few weeks now and it’s been 810 all the time, at least from my country.
Jackson(?) the mechanic was way more interesting and knowledgeable, less partial as well.
Eric is kinda afraid of this product I guess..
The way you watch these vids is to ignore their opinion and watch the vid like a hawk for facts you can deduce your own opinion from.
Sure I am a bit critical, but this is not just entertainment, right? Supposed to be a little informative too. I really enjoyed the tear down of the unit, just did not like the incompetent comments

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Re: GNG / CYC X1 Pro 3000w

Post by Animalector » Jun 29 2019 4:26am

Well it's one provider making comments about a competitors product.

Typically you don't see Honda doing teardowns of Toyota cars and making vids or adds about it.

Interesting though..

Andy

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Lenk42602   10 kW

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Re: GNG / CYC X1 Pro 3000w

Post by Lenk42602 » Jun 29 2019 7:02pm

anyone willing to start posting up some controller settings for the stock 14s controller?

Going to have some free time next week to fiddle with it. Know I need to smooth out the throttle response (pretty much an on/off affair), smooth out the PAS transition (pretty much a delayed on off affair right now) and the config the throttle for current or power or voltage.

Parameter Settings:
Factory Battery: Factory
Battery Type: Li-ion
Series Cell Count: 14
Throttle Low Voltage Threshold (mV): 940
Throttle High Voltage Thresholld (mV): 4200
Fault Throttle Threshold (mV): 4400
Number of Poles in Wheel: 2
PAS Poles (pulse/rev): 32
Wheel Diameter (mm): 840
LVC: 46v
Low Voltage power Limit (%): 75
Threshold Temp (starts to limit power, C): 90
Max temp :100
Motor Direction: 0
Speed Unit: 2
PAS Start Rpm: 500
Motor rpm/cadence RPM: 37

Preset Setting:
PAS: On
Throttle Mode: Power
Max Speed 75kmh
Start PAS RPM: 213
Stop PAS RPM: 110
Assist Start Power: 75 W
Assist power factor (W/rpm) 40
Power Limit (w) 2800
Motor Phase Current Limit A: 80
Throttle Start Speed (km/h): 90
throttle ramp up rate mV/sec) : 4000
Throttle Ramp Down rate : 8000
Fast Ramp up Rate : 4000
Throttle auto cruise: 0s
Cruise hold range (mV) : 480
Max Rpm 7000

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Lenk42602   10 kW

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Re: GNG / CYC X1 Pro 3000w

Post by Lenk42602 » Jun 30 2019 7:19am

Alright. Here we go.

I asked Jon if there were some discussions had regarding sharing general set ups and their applications. He suggested Facebook. I suggested never.

A Beta version of the App that has been to supplied to android users has been done so because the released version did and does not work at all. Users cannot even log in after downloading.

As a solution, Jon has provided a Beta version so we can get on with fiddling. Unfortunately, even the Beta version is configured in such a way that the screen does not capture all of the sections of the the profiling page.

As a result I cant even access and update throttle settings.

Currently seeing if Jon can provide good ol fashioned software for me to use via laptop and a progrmming cable.

On a better note, I've managed to make some profile changes that have resulted in better behavior.

I'll post them up soon.

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Re: GNG / CYC X1 Pro 3000w

Post by Lenk42602 » Jun 30 2019 7:54am

Beta App view on my S8.

Cant even access the "set" button below throttle settings or the rest of the throttle ramp parameters...
Screenshot_20190629-205605_Bike (1).jpg

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Re: GNG / CYC X1 Pro 3000w

Post by Lenk42602 » Jun 30 2019 2:58pm

Just back from a run. Ran through all the throttle modes. Current/Power/Speed - all feel pretty much the same :roll:

throttle response is a little better, but still cant access ramp rates through the app.

No PAS at all now. Not sure how it stopped functioning.

anybody else have their controller set up? I'd like to compare some notes...

I'll report back in a few

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Re: GNG / CYC X1 Pro 3000w

Post by Ecyclist » Jul 01 2019 11:51am

dirkdiggler wrote:
Jun 28 2019 11:34am
Luna cycle unboxing.
I'm amazed that someone who is in business for so many years can be so ignorant.
Luna is a Chinese products store, but owner is all about buying American and he has a hat to prove it. :roll: :o
He is lucky to have Jackson on his side.
From what I can see CYC X1 is better than I expected.
I think that one way bearing sprag freewheel is the weakest link. The time will tell.
Don't expect from life to be easy and then it will be.
My builds:
Avian with hypocycloidal drive https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 2#p1318056
2016 GNG extreme drive https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 28&t=82252

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Re: GNG / CYC X1 Pro 3000w

Post by SlowCo » Jul 01 2019 12:29pm

Ecyclist wrote:
Jul 01 2019 11:51am
I'm amazed that someone who is in business for so many years can be so ignorant.
Luna is a Chinese products store, but owner is all about buying American and he has a hat to prove it. :roll: :o
:lol:
That made me laugh.
You hit the nail on the head!

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Re: GNG / CYC X1 Pro 3000w

Post by neptronix » Jul 01 2019 12:34pm

Where's our teardown? it's sad that we didn't get to it first...
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Re: GNG / CYC X1 Pro 3000w

Post by flyinmonkie » Jul 01 2019 8:16pm

Lenk, I'm in the same boat as you and also wanting to adjust some of the settingscand smooth out the throttle response. I haven't changed anything yet as i can't set the lastvsettings on the beta app as well. I did get some throttle settings to try from Jon to try with my instructions for the firmware update. I'll post them when i get a chance to look at them again.

I may try putting the beta app on my tablet to see if i can access all the settings.

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Re: GNG / CYC X1 Pro 3000w

Post by anttipaa » Jul 02 2019 2:40pm

Iphone works fine. I tested with my friends phone. But now I need good settings.. Good quality twist throttle would be nice.
Canyon Torque DHX + Cyc X1 Pro

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Re: GNG / CYC X1 Pro 3000w

Post by flyinmonkie » Jul 02 2019 6:32pm

I can log in on my android, but the app won't connect to the controller. It just doesn't show up in the app. My phone sees the controller in the bluetooth settings, but it won't pair.

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Re: GNG / CYC X1 Pro 3000w

Post by tomjasz » Jul 02 2019 11:00pm

neptronix wrote:
Jul 01 2019 12:34pm
Where's our teardown? it's sad that we didn't get to it first...
What? You want an actual tech review?
Thanks Justin_le we're here thanks to you. All the best to the mods for their tireless work keeping it on an even keel.

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Re: GNG / CYC X1 Pro 3000w

Post by flyinmonkie » Jul 03 2019 11:40am

Here are some throttle setting instruction I got from Jon. I haven't played around with them yet, but I hope it helps others.

APP setting (FAQs)
1. How to adjust the responsiveness of throttle:
e.g. when riding with PAS and use with throttle, there is a delay. To adjust, please increase the value of fast ramp up rate. (It enables the throttle to ramp up quickly when batteries current is lower than the “Fast Ramp Up Threshold” value.
Adjust the “Ramp up Rate”, “Fast Ramp Up Rate” and “Fast Ramp Up threshold” value.
2.Reduce the throttle Dead zone: Check the original and the full “Throt In” value
Adjust the “zero” and “Full” values to closer values.

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Lenk42602   10 kW

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Re: GNG / CYC X1 Pro 3000w

Post by Lenk42602 » Jul 06 2019 7:26am

Few updates / requests out to Jon regarding controller settings:

Discovered the throttle output does not operate independent of PAS level. Throttle can only operate within the power setting of assist. Conveyed to Jon why this is not optimal for certain applications. He's indicated he will incorporate it into the next batch.

Very little information on torque sensor and how it currently operates. Requested adding more torque setting to the controller profile menu to allow for better integration. Indicated this will be added to the new APP upgrade.


Throttle mode setting (current, speed, power) are not clearly defined wrt to how they operate.. I asked for clarification for each, he indicated "throttle mode is tuning now" and the responsiveness will be improved after the new firmware is ready. Feels like all the settings are the same to me....

So it seems like throttle mode, throttle ramp rates, torque sensing are all either non functional or at a very basic level of functionality. When pressed for more detail for each, Jon indicated that it will be addressed in the future with app releases, firmware upgrades, and controller upgrades.

I've asked him to give estimated dates for release of the above, will post what he says.


I'll be out today with the bike running through my latest set of changes. Starting to think the limits of this controller have to do with the limited functionality released with the first versions vs and optimization I can derive by tuning.

Len

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Re: GNG / CYC X1 Pro 3000w

Post by Tommm » Jul 06 2019 8:36am

Lenk42602 wrote:
Jul 06 2019 7:26am
Few updates / requests out to Jon regarding controller settings:
Will there be a firmware update function for the controller? Sounds like the different versions are wildly different.

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Lenk42602   10 kW

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Re: GNG / CYC X1 Pro 3000w

Post by Lenk42602 » Jul 06 2019 9:28am

Not sure but so far firmware updates have been sent to me directly for the controller. been one firmware update so far.


Here's my most recent set up - PAS is more reasonable, I have 1-5 Power settings in this preset. Each power level is distributed evenly across the 0-100% power range.

throttle is still pretty useless. Thinking of changing setting "0" to throttle only so I only have to toggle down on the lcd display to get full throttle use.

Parameter Settings:
Factory Battery: Factory
Battery Type: Li-ion
Series Cell Count: 14
Throttle Low Voltage Threshold (mV): 940
Throttle High Voltage Thresholld (mV): 4200
Fault Throttle Threshold (mV): 4400
Number of Poles in Wheel: 2
PAS Poles (pulse/rev): 32
Wheel Diameter (mm): 840, now 1425
LVC: 46v
Low Voltage power Limit (%): 75
Threshold Temp (starts to limit power, C): 90
Max temp :100
Motor Direction: 0
Speed Unit: 2
PAS Start Rpm: 100
Motor rpm/cadence RPM: 75


Preset Setting:
PAS: On
Throttle Mode: Current
Max Speed 100kmh
Start PAS RPM: 10
Stop PAS RPM: 2
Assist Start Power: 250W
Assist power factor (W/rpm) 80
Power Limit (w) 3500
Motor Phase Current Limit A: 90
Throttle Start Speed (km/h): 1
throttle ramp up rate mV/sec) : 4000
Throttle Ramp Down rate : 8000
Fast Ramp up Rate : 4000
Throttle auto cruise: 0s
Cruise hold range (mV) : 480
Max Rpm 7000


still cant access ramp rates on beta app due to S8 incompatibility issues. I'll get on that when Jon reconciles the problem.
Last edited by Lenk42602 on Jul 06 2019 11:23am, edited 1 time in total.

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Lenk42602   10 kW

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Re: GNG / CYC X1 Pro 3000w

Post by Lenk42602 » Jul 06 2019 11:21am

one more discovery today, and im done.

Despite setting the Wheel diameter to the accurate height, my reading was off by at least 50%

My wheel diameter is 724mm

I took the bike out with a GPS and measured actual speed against the lcd readout - adjusting the parameter settings until the GPS speed matched the LCD screen.

I ended up at 1425 mm for the figure that matches both actual gps and lcd readout speed.

1425/25.4 = 56.10 inches


if you are having problems getting accurate speeds from you kit, I would suggest you adjust the wheel diameter settings up based on actual gps speeds.

I'm running 27.5 x 2.8 tires.

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Re: GNG / CYC X1 Pro 3000w

Post by Föppel » Jul 14 2019 11:59am

Hey Lenk,

on my two builds, i have some of the same problems, you are dicribing. Jon sent me a controller firmware update, i installed it, and not much changed, only that i cant connect the bluetooth afer the update... thats the case on both motor(-controllers) with different phones. before the firmware update (updated via the usb-cable), everything was pretty much the same, but bluetooth connection to the phones was possible.

so my question; are you changing your setting via the "Beta-app", or does your bluetooth stil working after the firmware update?

in the beta-app (before update firmware), i was able to change settings, but they didnt change much, even when setting throttle-ramps to max.

On my two Motors (14S, medium Chainwheels), i have one secon delay when i hit the throttle --> to feel the motorpower... also it then starts at a very slow ramping speed.
You guys having the problem that your throttle hit to hard? Thats what i would like to have. This one second delay is a pretty long time, feels more like a boat then a bike at the moment.

i was able to set the amps to a higher value via the beta-app, but cant go higher then 40amp on the battery (battery fuse).
-->The amps in the app, those are the phase-amps, right? how do i know how much phase amps i can set, to not burn the fuse on the battery?

cheerio, föppel
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