My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Discussions related to motors other than hub motors.
This includes R/C motors, botttom bracket, roller and geared drives.
Tjeska   10 W

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Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by Tjeska » Jan 16 2020 8:41am

Sinbord1981 wrote:
Jan 15 2020 4:39am
Tjeska wrote:
Jan 15 2020 2:18am
Could someone check for me which kind of Rockshox token the (optional) Lyric on a AM1000 takes?

I'm kind of confused which version of the Lyric they put on the bike?
Image
I’ve got the Lyric on my AM1000 - not sure exactly what I need to look at but if you tell me I can check later and confirm you back.
You can check it by unscrewing the top cap:

https://youtu.be/HV1kIh6-0YI

Hardcore   100 W

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Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by Hardcore » Jan 16 2020 11:47am

mewanderinghome wrote:
Jan 13 2020 1:27am
Hardcore wrote:
Sep 27 2019 2:08am

Attached a video of the 2020 Frey EX bike. It's a fantastic bike to ride.
Hi @Hardcore - After viewing a couple videos, I'd say we have similar riding preferences in that I tend to ride singletrack pretty fast and love a little air but generally don't do huge drops (don't mean to imply you don't- just hadn't seen that in 2 vids). This will be my first eMTB (have only ridden a few ebikes and never on single track). Trying to decide whether to buy the AM1000, EX, or even M600. I will probably customize the bikes further (particularly with regard to drivetrain) regardless of which frame/battery/motor I get. What do you think are the pros & cons of each of those bikes, and which would you choose? What components would you upgrade/add aftermarket (major & minor components)? I probably wouldn't get the extra battery on the EX as I don't think I'd ride with it. On the AM1000 I might also choose the very base model with the smallest 48v17.5ah battery for less top-heavy weight/narrowest profile (I don't expect needing tremendous range), and just upgrade the components that need it. I will probably end up using this bike to commute some too (no need for rack & panniers though). Other riders who've ridden multiple models of Frey bikes please feel free to weigh in too.

Hi mewanderinghome, get the ultra motor.

Upgrade to the Lyrik, and I personally like to be in charge of gearing so I ride without gearsensor and use the front brake as a cutoff, and then you're all set from Frey's perspective. Unless you are looking into an EX1 groupset, with 8 good sized steps and massive 11-48 range, then this can be done at Frey as well. I've had to replace chains, but the cogs are still working perfectly except for the 11 and 15t, whom I've replaced relatively cheaply (20quid). The whole groupset itself is expensive though but I wouldnt want something with smaller stepsizes as I hate shifting gears and the bike doesn't need to, as in the middle gears it has a speed range from 10 to 25 mph due to the massive torque.

Aftermarket any part you like (grips, pedals, etc), but most def put the max size dropper you can fit and shorter cranks, then with the massive torque sensor/throttle you'll love the speed on single trails and the manoeuvrability, even though the weight is there, it has a nice and low centre of mass. You can easily control the speed even at 20+mph using the 1.5kW throttle and make light work of any jump. An ultra powered frey bike was the best purchase I've made and will do it anytime of the day again, no regrets, pure adrenaline.

I do do drops but haven't filmed anything in a long time, but I'm over 2200 miles on the am1000 and no problems with the motor or those other things that the people mentioned. And no, I do not spare the bike in any sense with massive crashes on 20+footers (practising the bigger jumps) and full-throttle emptying battery after battery at 30degC.

Ride on!
Last edited by Hardcore on Jan 16 2020 12:02pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by Hardcore » Jan 16 2020 11:55am

Tjeska wrote:
Jan 16 2020 8:41am
Sinbord1981 wrote:
Jan 15 2020 4:39am
Tjeska wrote:
Jan 15 2020 2:18am
Could someone check for me which kind of Rockshox token the (optional) Lyric on a AM1000 takes?

I'm kind of confused which version of the Lyric they put on the bike?
Image
I’ve got the Lyric on my AM1000 - not sure exactly what I need to look at but if you tell me I can check later and confirm you back.
You can check it by unscrewing the top cap:

https://youtu.be/HV1kIh6-0YI
Did they both come with the bike? I think I only had the grey one. This is what I could find about the different color tokens from Rockshox:

"Grey tokens fit in Revelation, Pike, Yari, Lyrik and BoXXer forks, while red ones are slightly wider and only fit in the Pike." - https://www.bikeradar.com/features/quic ... ss-tokens/

Tjeska   10 W

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Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by Tjeska » Jan 16 2020 12:03pm

Most of the time there is one token installed on the fork from stock, don't know if they come with the bike...

Normally they are both for a Lyric, just other damper configuration, that's why I asked if anyone knew which Lyric they put on the AM1000.

Still waiting for the bike to arrive, its almost a month to late at this point :(

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Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by guel135 » Jan 17 2020 4:02am

Tjeska wrote:
Jan 16 2020 12:03pm
Still waiting for the bike to arrive, its almost a month to late at this point :(
You will get it soon! I just got a message that mine is released from customs, paid the taxes and awaiting for loading to the transport. And I am hoping that early next week will get it delivered!

Tjeska   10 W

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Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by Tjeska » Jan 18 2020 4:35am

Got the tracking number this morning from Grace. I think we should receive the bike against the end of next week.

cscscs   10 mW

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Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by cscscs » Jan 19 2020 1:13pm

mewanderinghome wrote:
Jan 13 2020 3:09am
@Deafcat and @cscscs: did you two ever get any farther with engineering a replacement to this weak link in the Ultra? Do you still feel it's necessary? Should I order a spare part with the bike and if so can you point to which part in a photo so I can ask Frey for the replacement? Thanks for your input.
900 miles since I last replaced the clutch. I made several significant changes at that time, including converting from hardtail to full-sus and shorter cranks (152mm). Both of these changes contributed to virtually eliminating crank strikes and I am now convinced that this was the root cause for the clutch failures. The stock Bafang cranks on the G510 are 175mm and include almost 20mm of extra material outboard of the pedal spindle bore - really a horrible design for an eMTB.

That all being said, a sprag-type mechanism in the motor is a must-have criterion for my next ebike - same goes for the rear hub - sprag, IGH or at least very high POE ratchet.

Since mid-motor eMTBs have two engagement mechanisms (one in the motor and one in the rear hub), the slack experienced in getting the rear wheel driving will be the sum of the two. I recently demo'd a 2020 Specialized Levo and no question they got it all right on that bike - the engagement is seamless - using sprag in the motor and DT Swiss Star Ratchet, 54t engagement rear hub.

My understanding is that the new Bafang M600 uses a sprag-type clutch - good to see.

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Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by cscscs » Jan 19 2020 2:16pm

cscscs wrote:
Aug 09 2019 9:52pm
I've given up trying to negotiate an equitable solution, and Frey will not respond to my inquiries on Alibaba messaging (which I find highly unprofessional), so it's pointless to perpetuate the banter, except I can't ignore the blatant lies in their replies, the above statement being one example. Frey says the "don't even know what {the adapter I mentioned) is. Well here is a snapshot of the lengthy discussion I had with Frey about said adapter....you be the judge:
I've been wanting to follow-up on this post, as I have been waiting to put some miles on the bike to see if problems would develop.

In summary - I am completely satisfied and really glad to have converted my FLX Blade hardtail to Frey AM1000 full-suspension frame.

The transaction to acquire the frame was unfortunate. To recap - the frame had some defects - I'm pretty sure someone at the factory dropped the frame resulting in the distortion of the head-tube and rear drop-out. I had to put the head tube in a vise and tighten it down as hard as I could to get the steerer to slide in, and I had to loosen the derailleur hanger to get the axle to thread. I only discovered these issues at the end of the build (after many hours of work) which is why I didn't just return the frame as first recourse.

Fast forward 900 miles - all technical single track - and I am completely satisfied with the bike. I like the handling of the AM1000 frame better than the original FLX Blade - the geo is comparable but the Blade had a tendency to wash-out (understeer). So I wanted to at least give credit to Frey where due for their frame design.

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Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by barbarossa » Jan 20 2020 7:06am

mewanderinghome wrote:
Jan 13 2020 1:45am
barbarossa wrote:
Aug 13 2019 1:03pm
i have an additional cable for my GPS tracker directly connected to the battery cable and a self made connection from the controller cable (5V+/ground/motor off) to the rear brake pressure sensor and my gearsensor incl. Higo plug. the gps tracker itself is mounted at the inner plastic motor cover. the backup GPS-battery 1000mAh lipo (in case of stolen battery, charged by the main battery) is between plastic cover/gps tracker and motor (but gps tracker and backup battery i can mount after mounting the motor).
@Barbarossa I'm very interested in hard-wiring a GPS tracker too. Can you link to the tracker you bought and service you use for tracking it? Also, if you happen to be bored and want to post more photos of how you mounted it that would be awesome. But primarily I'm wondering what tracker to buy/service to use and I'm glad someone has already successfully done this. Thank you!
hi,
i have adapted the bosch biketrax gps tracker for my frey am1000 ( https://powunity.com/ ). unfortunately it covers only Europe with a built-in sim card (and flat rate for 1 year). it is a quality gps tracker not to compare with some chinese models i also tested and didnt even work. but i have seen that your location is USA :(

this summer i was riding my bosch commuter ebike (also equipped with the same GPS tracker) and stopped for a coffee break. really nice weather outside. suddenly my smartphone showed up a GPS alarm for my frey am1000. i was really shocked. i took my bosch ebike and was following my own frey am1000 per GPS - panic !!! i could see the speed and direction the thief rode my bike - strange feeling. after 20 minutes i could reach the GPS position of my frey am1000. and :thumb: there it was… yyyyuuuuhhhhuuuuu!!! i called the police but they did nothing - i had to approve that the bike is mine but hey, nothing else. the thief has locked the bike with his own abus lock - perhaps he was afraid that someone could steal the stolen bike :D
in the end i had to lift the locked rear wheel and got 20-30 meters forward, then took the bosch ebike and rode 30 meters, then again moved the frey am1000 20-30 meters and so on. many people on the street were wondering what i did - it must have looked very strange. after a while i reached the next bike shop with my two ebikes. the guy in the bike shop opened the thiefs abus lock (i had something similar) with a bosch wireless angle grinder. it took around 10 seconds to open it. anyways i know have a kryptonite lock, perhaps it will take 20 seconds to open it. terrifying, the bike was stolen directly from the basement. :evil:

anyways you'll need something really small - the plastic cover of bafang ultra motor offers not much room. with a wide input volt range or at least 40-60 volts input range. biketrax tracker has 9-90 volts input range which charges a small 1000mAh lipo battery. in case of taking the battery off the stolen bike tracking will still be active for around 2-4 days or upto a few weeks - it depends on if the bike is moved or not. another thing to consider might be the available networks. most of trackers are using 2G/GSM but more and more providers are switching off this old standard (often used as machine-to-machine network) to get free frequencies for newer network standards. perhaps you are able to find the right provider and product in the US...

biketrax tracker in a bosch motor, the thing with that "P" - it simply takes the 36 volts battery input so this tracker is usable for any bike but unfortunately only Europe is covered by the built-in sim card -:
biketrax.JPG
biketrax.JPG (43.48 KiB) Viewed 1397 times

habla   1 µW

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Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by habla » Jan 20 2020 9:55am

Thanks to all users for a thoroughly informative thread!

I'm in the process of deciding on the specs for a HT1000, and hope for your input for the choice between 48V 21Ah and 52V 17.5 Ah.

From what I could gather from this thread, the general consensus seem to lean towards 52V. A read a couple of comments from those with AM1000 who opted for 48V initially, and then bought the 52v, wish they had done this from the start. I have read descriptions of both higher speed and more stability of power, as the 48V supposedly tended to lose much of its spark when starting to get drained, while the 52V giving almost the same power till empty.

However, Grace at Freybike recommended strongly to go with 48V, because this is more stable than 52V. When pressed further on the subject, she writes that this is because the indicator is not compatible with 52V battery, it can not work on 52V battery. And also that the 52V BMS technology is not very mature, 48V BMS is better than 52V.

I'm hesitant to go against factory recommendations, but had initially decided upon the 52v in my own mind, before the correspondence with Grace. I would very much appreciate replies from the forum with your experience and recommendations.

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Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by jeron » Jan 20 2020 12:33pm

habla wrote:
Jan 20 2020 9:55am
Thanks to all users for a thoroughly informative thread!

I'm in the process of deciding on the specs for a HT1000, and hope for your input for the choice between 48V 21Ah and 52V 17.5 Ah.

From what I could gather from this thread, the general consensus seem to lean towards 52V. A read a couple of comments from those with AM1000 who opted for 48V initially, and then bought the 52v, wish they had done this from the start. I have read descriptions of both higher speed and more stability of power, as the 48V supposedly tended to lose much of its spark when starting to get drained, while the 52V giving almost the same power till empty.

However, Grace at Freybike recommended strongly to go with 48V, because this is more stable than 52V. When pressed further on the subject, she writes that this is because the indicator is not compatible with 52V battery, it can not work on 52V battery. And also that the 52V BMS technology is not very mature, 48V BMS is better than 52V.

I'm hesitant to go against factory recommendations, but had initially decided upon the 52v in my own mind, before the correspondence with Grace. I would very much appreciate replies from the forum with your experience and recommendations.
52v is awesome. Who cares about the indicator! I dont know the story about the BMS, never heart of it nor have i problems with it.

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Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by Hardcore » Jan 20 2020 5:44pm

You'll need to set the low voltage cut-off accordingly, don't care about the 4 green lights on the battery (decoration), and set the screen to show voltage instead of the percentage. Overall, I'm very happy with 52v (got two batteries). The 52v has less Wh than the 48v. For most people, 48v is perfect, but that bit extra is for the ones that really want to push the ultra.

kson   1 µW

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Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by kson » Jan 20 2020 6:22pm

I've been having the same conversation with Grace, I naturally was leaning towards 52v (short distance rides & want max power) but she is strongly suggesting the 48v.
I guess the only other factor I'm interested in is which would be easier to get /build 3rd party battery packs in the future, incase can't get them through frey.

mewanderinghome   1 mW

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Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by mewanderinghome » Jan 20 2020 11:15pm

barbarossa wrote:
Jan 20 2020 7:06am
i took my bosch ebike and was following my own frey am1000 per GPS - panic !!! i could see the speed and direction the thief rode my bike - strange feeling. after 20 minutes i could reach the GPS position of my frey am1000. and :thumb: there it was… yyyyuuuuhhhhuuuuu!!!
Thanks for the GPS info :) That's a crazy story! Glad you got your bike back :thumb:

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Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by mewanderinghome » Jan 20 2020 11:18pm

cscscs wrote:
Jan 19 2020 1:13pm
including converting from hardtail to full-sus and shorter cranks (152mm). Both of these changes contributed to virtually eliminating crank strikes and I am now convinced that this was the root cause for the clutch failures. The stock Bafang cranks on the G510 are 175mm and include almost 20mm of extra material outboard of the pedal spindle bore
Thanks for the feeback- I see several people suggesting the Miranda Delta0 150mm crank so I'm putting that on as soon as I get my bike :)

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Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by kson » Jan 21 2020 12:13am

I'm a little confused between the EX and AM1000 now.
They are both dual suspension bikes and similar prices, has anyone from Frey outlined what is different / improved on the EX apart from the dual battery system? The two bikes seem very similar in terms of feature set.

Simonten   10 mW

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Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by Simonten » Jan 21 2020 3:01am

I asked about this on a youtube Chanel regarding the EX and the Am1000. hrd cr was kind enough to reply he had been on the frey bike exchange tour. Below is a video with him jumping the the EX

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8h7wMU3hbic&t=93s[/youtube]

Below were his comments on the EX
I played around for a few days with the M600, AM1000, and the EX and I would recommend the EX. The EX combines integrated looks like the M600, but still with the power the AM1000 delivers (ultra motor). I did not notice the extra weight, on the contrary, gravity-assisted it was easier to gain speed. On the downhill course I rode the bike without a chain without any problems. If you are physically fit to do jumps, then the extra weight of the EX should be no problem for you to handle.
I've been having arguments back and forth about weight with several people. My take is, and I answered the same on your other question, if you are fit enough to do jumps, bunny hops, etc, then the added weight is not a problem. I jumped both with and without the additional battery and honestly, I didn't notice the extra 4 kg. The speed these bikes can assist you up to will always be enough to clear the jumps.

Comparing the two motors, in my opinion, the M600 motor lacked the power to bring me up extreme hills, while the ultra motor can outperform me when it comes to climbing. Basically, I fall on my back before I notice the EX/AM runs out of juice (see for instance my climbing stairs video). The one major benefit of the EX is that, while it weighs in at 30kg or more with two batteries, it does always assist you (up to 60kmh and beyond).

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Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by formula101 » Jan 21 2020 3:55am

kson wrote:
Jan 21 2020 12:13am
I'm a little confused between the EX and AM1000 now.
They are both dual suspension bikes and similar prices, has anyone from Frey outlined what is different / improved on the EX apart from the dual battery system? The two bikes seem very similar in terms of feature set.
There are small differences in frame geometry, but the main difference is that the EX has 180/160 travel vs 160/160 travel for the AM. The EX gives you the option of marathon rides with two batteries and near DH level travel. The EX is also nearly $400 more in stock configuration before extras like a second battery. These bikes are a cheat code as long travel bikes usually don't pedal well, but with 1500 watts peak and 160nm of torque, the old rules don't apply anymore. You can have the best of both worlds: max power and max travel.

Both offer excellent value at their respective price points, but prices on competing bikes from traditional manufacturers are dropping, and offer far "better" geometry (i.e., modern geometry). For example, the frey bikes have 473 mm chainstays whereas the specialized kenevo have 443 mm chainstays. The frey bikes, and almost all emtb's from direct to consumer brands have ridiculously long chainstays by modern standards.

Then again, the big brands will never offer a motor like the bafang ultra on their bikes. So you have to choose between the latest geometry or the most powerful motor.

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Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by Hardcore » Jan 21 2020 7:48am

With 1.5kW and 160Nm, give me the long chainstay as I´ll be climbing steeper stuff than ever.

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Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by cscscs » Jan 21 2020 11:48am

mewanderinghome wrote:
Jan 13 2020 3:09am
Should I order a spare part with the bike and if so can you point to which part in a photo?
Hopefully you won't need to replace the primary gear, but if you do - here is a great source for that part https://wattwagons.com/collections/acce ... imary-gear
Pushkar at wattwagons is great to work with and I was able to get this part quickly. I'm nervous about getting critical parts in the future so I did order an extra primary gear (also spare circlips for the crank shaft).

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Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by cscscs » Jan 21 2020 12:00pm

mewanderinghome wrote:
Jan 20 2020 11:18pm
cscscs wrote:
Jan 19 2020 1:13pm
including converting from hardtail to full-sus and shorter cranks (152mm). Both of these changes contributed to virtually eliminating crank strikes and I am now convinced that this was the root cause for the clutch failures. The stock Bafang cranks on the G510 are 175mm and include almost 20mm of extra material outboard of the pedal spindle bore
Thanks for the feeback- I see several people suggesting the Miranda Delta0 150mm crank so I'm putting that on as soon as I get my bike :)
From what I have seen, the shorter cranks (152, 160) are hard to find and not currently available from Miranda. I wanted to see if I could find them again in case I needed a replacement and after a lot of searching the following link is the only source I could find: http://www.flidistribution.co.uk/mirand ... anks-170mm
The link says 170mm but on the page you can select 152 or 160 - and it has the correct Q16 factor. They are made for KTM just like the ones I originally ordered. You'll have to actually place the order to confirm availability - if you want these I would suggest you don't wait as who knows how much longer they will be available.

Update - just for the heck of it I checked Miranda and it looks like the delta cranks are in-stock in all lengths for Q16 (even a 150mm option!) - again you would have to actually place the order to confirm but if true that is great news to me in case I need to replace a crank (probably can only order as a set and they're not cheap but also not too bad and as I have said previously without question IMO the best upgrade I have made)
https://mirandabikeparts.com/en/shop/e-bike/delta/
Let us know if you place the order and are able to confirm availability
Last edited by cscscs on Jan 21 2020 4:42pm, edited 1 time in total.

jeron   100 mW

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Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by jeron » Jan 21 2020 3:04pm

cscscs wrote:
Jan 21 2020 12:00pm
Update - just for the heck of it I checked Miranda and it looks like the delta cranks are in-stock in all lengths for Q16 (even a 150mm option!) - again you would have to actually place the order to confirm but if true that is great news to me in case I need to replace a crank (probably can only order as a set and there not cheap but also not too bad and as I have said previously without question IMO the best upgrade I have made)
https://mirandabikeparts.com/en/shop/e-bike/delta/
Let us know if you place the order and are able to confirm availability
Do i we need the isis interface? I want to order them

edit: isis it it, now stupid question: i need 2 quantities i guess, it is not a pack of 2 :)

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Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by Tjeska » Jan 21 2020 3:27pm

There are 2 cranks in one pack.

I have the 150mm ones here, isis interface it is.

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Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by jeron » Jan 21 2020 4:44pm

Tjeska wrote:
Jan 21 2020 3:27pm
There are 2 cranks in one pack.

I have the 150mm ones here, isis interface it is.
It's 20 dollar for the shipment to Belgium. That's just stupid and god know how much import duty...

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Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by Tjeska » Jan 22 2020 11:11am

jeron wrote:
Jan 21 2020 4:44pm
Tjeska wrote:
Jan 21 2020 3:27pm
There are 2 cranks in one pack.

I have the 150mm ones here, isis interface it is.
It's 20 dollar for the shipment to Belgium. That's just stupid and god know how much import duty...
I payed no import duty on mine and i'm also from Belgium.

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