My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Discussions related to motors other than hub motors.
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Hardcore   100 W

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Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by Hardcore » Nov 01 2019 1:50am

As said before, I had a hub break on me on an earlier model of the am1000 (I believe it had a different hub than the quanta you mention) and FREY was very helpful in resolving the issue after I contacted them with the pictures. I decided also to get refunded for the rear hub and I would buy myself a more expensive locally sourced wheelset. That's more leniency than most sellers have shown me.

That said, I read this thread and I can understand the frustration when parts fail, but it happens and good that you let the community know. It is, however, more effective to go through the warranty process of any failed product with the seller. Most likely your internals are broken, hence you can't take a picture what's broken without opening it. I am curious to see how it looks, please upload the pictures once you get them.

Considering that Frey says they sold many bikes and only a few cases of broken hubs these are adequate hubs. In fact, I'm buying myself another frey bike and I am not worried about the quality of the bikes. At this price point there's no alternative ultra powered bike with these components and for a china based company I'm extremely satisfied with the prompt handling of warranties and after sales service I received for the few cases I had in the last 18 months.

FlyingFinn   10 W

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Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by FlyingFinn » Nov 01 2019 8:08am

Hardcore wrote:
Nov 01 2019 1:50am
As said before, I had a hub break on me on an earlier model of the am1000 (I believe it had a different hub than the quanta you mention) and FREY was very helpful in resolving the issue after I contacted them with the pictures. I decided also to get refunded for the rear hub and I would buy myself a more expensive locally sourced wheelset. That's more leniency than most sellers have shown me.

That said, I read this thread and I can understand the frustration when parts fail, but it happens and good that you let the community know. It is, however, more effective to go through the warranty process of any failed product with the seller. Most likely your internals are broken, hence you can't take a picture what's broken without opening it. I am curious to see how it looks, please upload the pictures once you get them.

Considering that Frey says they sold many bikes and only a few cases of broken hubs these are adequate hubs. In fact, I'm buying myself another frey bike and I am not worried about the quality of the bikes. At this price point there's no alternative ultra powered bike with these components and for a china based company I'm extremely satisfied with the prompt handling of warranties and after sales service I received for the few cases I had in the last 18 months.
Thx for your insight! As I've understood Quanta is just a generic chinese brand sold mainly in AliBaba. I don't know if it's ''a real company''.

Picture of the opened hub: https://aijaa.com/1LT8CB

I'm not the first one facing this issue with Quanta 190mm https://forums.mtbr.com/fat-bikes/quant ... 60470.html
Last edited by FlyingFinn on Nov 01 2019 9:29am, edited 1 time in total.

Hardcore   100 W

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Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by Hardcore » Nov 01 2019 8:50am

I tried to look for a thread on how I can remedy my hub without buying a new one and found no such thing. Hence I assumed it wasn't too common of a failure or not worthwhile to repair.

That thread seems a few years old and gives a possible reason for the failure. Premature failure usually indicates wrong machining or assembly and luckily an uncommon event.

I am sure that your new hub will be more than adequate and wish you many enjoyfull miles. These bikes are supposed to give smiles on our faces.

Qwurdi   1 µW

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Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by Qwurdi » Nov 01 2019 3:54pm

FREYebikes wrote:
Mar 10 2018 4:02am

About IGH, we will follow it and maybe try some on our bike in the near future, after confirm some suitable model. as I known, it should be customized to match the frame. At present, belt is impossible to use, as bafang supply the specific strengthen crank wheel not fit for belt. only for chain.

Hi Ivy!
Have a look at this bike, it does have the bafang ultra max, rohloff and gates belt! It is possible!
https://www.orangebc.com/de/produkte/fa ... ssung.html

Posting this here, although id love to see it on the Frey EX bike
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image

Surely it would be a major price bump, but it would also be a Supernice quality improvement.

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scrambler   100 W

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Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by scrambler » Nov 01 2019 4:44pm

That is my ideal combination :)
If Frey could do that at a more reasonable price, it would be very exciting :)

coolminty   100 µW

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Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by coolminty » Nov 01 2019 5:23pm

I am also still waiting for a Belt + IGH combo. It also appears that the competition is also slowing stepping into Freys territory with their higher torque & higher speed offerings that were one of the reasons I considered Frey to begin with. I am happy to pass on a Rohloff hub for cost reasons but there are plenty more known brand offerings out there. Enviolo for example.

I have paused buying a new bike until this offering is available.

I also think the price bump wouldn't be to far off it is now if paired with a reasonably priced IGH.
Qwurdi wrote:
Nov 01 2019 3:54pm
FREYebikes wrote:
Mar 10 2018 4:02am

About IGH, we will follow it and maybe try some on our bike in the near future, after confirm some suitable model. as I known, it should be customized to match the frame. At present, belt is impossible to use, as bafang supply the specific strengthen crank wheel not fit for belt. only for chain.

Hi Ivy!
Have a look at this bike, it does have the bafang ultra max, rohloff and gates belt! It is possible!
https://www.orangebc.com/de/produkte/fa ... ssung.html

Posting this here, although id love to see it on the Frey EX bike
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image

Surely it would be a major price bump, but it would also be a Supernice quality improvement.

cscscs   10 mW

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Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by cscscs » Nov 01 2019 6:33pm

[/quote]
Have a look at this bike, it does have the bafang ultra max, rohloff and gates belt! It is possible!
[/quote]

Ironically, in the context of the OPs rear hub failure, the Ultra motor has a clutch on the primary gear assembly that couples the pedal-crank to the output that is essentially just a basic 3-pawl freewheel. I know because I have had to replace two of them in my Ultra motor within the first 1500 miles. I now believe that the root cause was crank-strikes which I have now remedied by replacing the horribly long Bafang cranks with 155mm Miranda and have not had that problem since. The point being, I would be hesitant to commit to a bike mating the Rohloff to the Ultra, preferring instead to see an IGH mated to a more contemporary design using a sprag type clutch on the pedal-crank as in the m600 (but then the m600 has a proprietary crank - which is a discussion in another topic in this forum). Also, in addition to the strength (or lack thereof) of a basic pawl-type hub, another major consideration is the low points-of-engagement. One of the benefits of the Rohloff is the high engagement. So even a high-quality hub with sprag-type mechanism or very high POE is going to be a big improvement on a 3-pawl unit. For example check these out: https://onyxrp.com/product-category/mtb-hubs/

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Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by FREYebikes » Nov 01 2019 10:05pm

Hi,

QUANTA is a Taiwan based hub company also supply higher level hubs for MTB.
Just checked your pictures, can't see obvious problem or damage from the picture, but I trust that you thought something problem in the hub so you sent your bike check and repair in bike shop. I noticed that your hub is with 32holes, we have strengthen both mountain bike hub and fat bike hub inside and come with 36 holes following instead of earlier 32 holes.
if 36 holes updated hub to you is OK, we can offer a replacement hub for you to change. or refund reasonable cost you replace some other hub you think reliable is also OK.
About the link you put, that is in 2015, more than 4 years ago, not same hub, it is not comparable.

Anyway, we are always keeping improving details in all factors. any problem or issue is also improving possibility location.
Thank you for your attention and your feedback.
FlyingFinn wrote:
Nov 01 2019 8:08am
Hardcore wrote:
Nov 01 2019 1:50am
As said before, I had a hub break on me on an earlier model of the am1000 (I believe it had a different hub than the quanta you mention) and FREY was very helpful in resolving the issue after I contacted them with the pictures. I decided also to get refunded for the rear hub and I would buy myself a more expensive locally sourced wheelset. That's more leniency than most sellers have shown me.

That said, I read this thread and I can understand the frustration when parts fail, but it happens and good that you let the community know. It is, however, more effective to go through the warranty process of any failed product with the seller. Most likely your internals are broken, hence you can't take a picture what's broken without opening it. I am curious to see how it looks, please upload the pictures once you get them.

Considering that Frey says they sold many bikes and only a few cases of broken hubs these are adequate hubs. In fact, I'm buying myself another frey bike and I am not worried about the quality of the bikes. At this price point there's no alternative ultra powered bike with these components and for a china based company I'm extremely satisfied with the prompt handling of warranties and after sales service I received for the few cases I had in the last 18 months.
Thx for your insight! As I've understood Quanta is just a generic chinese brand sold mainly in AliBaba. I don't know if it's ''a real company''.

Picture of the opened hub: https://aijaa.com/1LT8CB

I'm not the first one facing this issue with Quanta 190mm https://forums.mtbr.com/fat-bikes/quant ... 60470.html

FREYebikes   100 W

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Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by FREYebikes » Nov 01 2019 10:24pm

I see the link, thank you.
We will check something more to see what is possible to proceed in the near future about this kind of request.
Qwurdi wrote:
Nov 01 2019 3:54pm
FREYebikes wrote:
Mar 10 2018 4:02am

About IGH, we will follow it and maybe try some on our bike in the near future, after confirm some suitable model. as I known, it should be customized to match the frame. At present, belt is impossible to use, as bafang supply the specific strengthen crank wheel not fit for belt. only for chain.

Hi Ivy!
Have a look at this bike, it does have the bafang ultra max, rohloff and gates belt! It is possible!
https://www.orangebc.com/de/produkte/fa ... ssung.html

Posting this here, although id love to see it on the Frey EX bike
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image

Surely it would be a major price bump, but it would also be a Supernice quality improvement.

Sinbord1981   100 W

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Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by Sinbord1981 » Nov 02 2019 7:58am

Removal, strip down, re-grease and reassembly of the Bafang Ultra GS510.1000 motor in my Frey AM1000 eBike in a bid to reduce noise. Don't try this at home! It will invalidate your warranty for one and your eBike might not work again when you put it all back together. Not sure if this link will work for you to my FaceBook page otherwise the YouTube link further below should do:

https://www.facebook.com/AdrenalineEbik ... 154165020/



I did this for three main reasons:
1. I wanted to see what it was like inside. I've always loved taking things apart and putting them back together. I do normally end up with a few bits left over though but I should point out I'm a qualified engineer (Masters degree in Electronic & Electrical Engineering).
2. On one of my earlier videos a few people said Bafang don't particularly grease the motor very well in the factory and it needs cleaning out and re-filling with Mobile SHC100. Well that's rubbish in my opinion. I've been to the factory and seen them make their motors. I spoke to the Bafang engineers; they test every one and they are essentially sealed for life. They just don't go wrong. I stripped mine down and did it anyway though.
3. I did it for you! The video demonstrates I can drop a motor out of the frame and reinstall it. If there are ever any warranty issues with motors for my customers in the UK, I can deal with it and replace it (however unlikely that is).

You really do NOT need to do this. My motor is now really super quiet however. A lot of the noise picked up in video depends on where and how you mount the video camera. I had mine mounted on the handlebars which picks up a lot of inductive noise through the frame of the bike that you simply don't hear in the real world when riding.
Watch it all the same as it's still interesting to see it inside.

FlyingFinn   10 W

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Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by FlyingFinn » Nov 02 2019 8:31am

Sinbord1981 wrote:
Nov 02 2019 7:58am
Removal, strip down, re-grease and reassembly of the Bafang Ultra GS510.1000 motor in my Frey AM1000 eBike in a bid to reduce noise. Don't try this at home! It will invalidate your warranty for one and your eBike might not work again when you put it all back together. Not sure if this link will work for you to my FaceBook page otherwise the YouTube link further below should do:

https://www.facebook.com/AdrenalineEbik ... 154165020/



I did this for three main reasons:
1. I wanted to see what it was like inside. I've always loved taking things apart and putting them back together. I do normally end up with a few bits left over though but I should point out I'm a qualified engineer (Masters degree in Electronic & Electrical Engineering).
2. On one of my earlier videos a few people said Bafang don't particularly grease the motor very well in the factory and it needs cleaning out and re-filling with Mobile SHC100. Well that's rubbish in my opinion. I've been to the factory and seen them make their motors. I spoke to the Bafang engineers; they test every one and they are essentially sealed for life. They just don't go wrong. I stripped mine down and did it anyway though.
3. I did it for you! The video demonstrates I can drop a motor out of the frame and reinstall it. If there are ever any warranty issues with motors for my customers in the UK, I can deal with it and replace it (however unlikely that is).

You really do NOT need to do this. My motor is now really super quiet however. A lot of the noise picked up in video depends on where and how you mount the video camera. I had mine mounted on the handlebars which picks up a lot of inductive noise through the frame of the bike that you simply don't hear in the real world when riding.
Watch it all the same as it's still interesting to see it inside.
An interesting hack and a well made video. Now I can estimate the amount of grease without opening my own motor. Most likely this amount the motor comes with won’t cause any trouble in cold. For people who use their bikes in sub-zero conditions might want rather to remove or lessen the amount of grease and possibly replace it with silicone oil or any other runny lubricant. Grease becomes like a playdough in -10 C.

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Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by FlyingFinn » Nov 02 2019 11:25am

FREYebikes wrote:
Nov 01 2019 10:05pm
Hi,

QUANTA is a Taiwan based hub company also supply higher level hubs for MTB.
Just checked your pictures, can't see obvious problem or damage from the picture, but I trust that you thought something problem in the hub so you sent your bike check and repair in bike shop. I noticed that your hub is with 32holes, we have strengthen both mountain bike hub and fat bike hub inside and come with 36 holes following instead of earlier 32 holes.
if 36 holes updated hub to you is OK, we can offer a replacement hub for you to change. or refund reasonable cost you replace some other hub you think reliable is also OK.
About the link you put, that is in 2015, more than 4 years ago, not same hub, it is not comparable.

Anyway, we are always keeping improving details in all factors. any problem or issue is also improving possibility location.
Thank you for your attention and your feedback.
I don’t know if installing a 36-hole hub to a 32-hole rim is even possible? I would have to buy a new rim as well...

Since I have already bought a new hub for 259€ and replacement work for 78€(receipt provided to you in AliBaba). I’m proposing a refund of 200€/224$.

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Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by Tjeska » Nov 02 2019 11:44am

Sinbord1981 wrote:
Nov 02 2019 7:58am
Removal, strip down, re-grease and reassembly of the Bafang Ultra GS510.1000 motor in my Frey AM1000 eBike in a bid to reduce noise.
Thx, for making the video nicely done!

By the looks of it I don't think that the motor is "under lubricated", it looks right.
The one thing thats difficult to say is, what kind of quality grease they use...

Will change mine out after some months of riding just to be sure.

FlyingFinn   10 W

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Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by FlyingFinn » Nov 05 2019 3:18am

Frey provided a resolution of 130$. For total costs of 311$ this is more like a joke. Dispute escalated to AliBaba. Now you can see what the real ”Frey warranty” means. At best after thorough negotiations they might offer a partial refund...

The best was in a message above when they offered a 36-hole hub as a replacement in a 32-hole rim :lol:

Receipt of the new hub:
Attachments
E8CF468A-CE97-4F68-89C7-71D152356340.jpeg
E8CF468A-CE97-4F68-89C7-71D152356340.jpeg (63.22 KiB) Viewed 1809 times
Last edited by FlyingFinn on Nov 05 2019 3:30am, edited 1 time in total.

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robocam   10 kW

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Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by robocam » Nov 05 2019 3:28am

Hold on a second here. You asked for $130 (which is probably a lot more than what that hub is worth), got your $130, and now you’re complaining and want more? That doesn’t sound very reasonable or fair.

They gave you EXACTLY what you asked for, and now you’re escalating it to Ali even though you already filed a claim?

I think Frey has already been more than fair giving you $130 for something they probably paid $10 for, and replacing a hub should cost somewhere around $60.
FlyingFinn wrote:
Nov 05 2019 3:18am
Frey provided a resolution of 130$. For total costs of 311$ this is more like a joke. Dispute escalated to AliBaba. Now you can see what the real ”Frey warranty” means.

The best was in a message above when they offered a 36-hole hub as a replacement in a 32-hole rim :lol:

Receipt of the new hub:
Last edited by robocam on Nov 05 2019 12:43pm, edited 9 times in total.

FlyingFinn   10 W

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Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by FlyingFinn » Nov 05 2019 3:33am

double
Last edited by FlyingFinn on Nov 05 2019 3:37am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by FlyingFinn » Nov 05 2019 3:34am

robocam wrote:
Nov 05 2019 3:28am
Hold on a second here. You asked for $130, got your $130, and now you’re complaining and want more? That doesn’t sound very reasonable or fair.
This was well before the total cost of the replacement was known. If it would have been only the freehub it would have been $130. The claim was changed accordingly in Alibaba when the real extent of the issue that the whole rear wheel must be re-built was discovered.

Secondly the bike was almost new. 2 weeks, 200km’s. Thus it’s reasonable that Frey covers all the costs.

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robocam   10 kW

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Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by robocam » Nov 05 2019 3:47am

Are you in private communication with Frey about this? Did you even give them a chance to respond?

What I think would be fair is to have them either send you a new wheel (we’er past that in this case), or if they’re ok with it, pay a reasonable cost to cover the labor to install your own hub (~$60) and pay you the actual cost (what they pay) of the Quanta hub.

I have no doubt Frey would want to make this right because it’s in their best interest to do so but you have to be reasonable.
FlyingFinn wrote:
Nov 05 2019 3:34am
robocam wrote:
Nov 05 2019 3:28am
Hold on a second here. You asked for $130, got your $130, and now you’re complaining and want more? That doesn’t sound very reasonable or fair.
This was well before the total cost of the replacement was known. If it would have been only the freehub it would have been $130. The claim was changed accordingly in Alibaba when the real extent of the issue that the whole rear wheel must be re-built was discovered.
Last edited by robocam on Nov 05 2019 10:28pm, edited 3 times in total.

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Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by FlyingFinn » Nov 05 2019 4:08am

robocam wrote:
Nov 05 2019 3:47am
Are you in private communication with Frey about this? Did you even give them a chance to respond?

What I think would be fair is to have them either send you a new wheel (we’er past that in this case), or if they’re ok with it, pay a reasonable cost to cover the labor to install your own hub (~$60) and pay you the actual cost (what they pay) of the Quanta hub.

I have no doubt Frey would want to make this right because it’s in their best interest to do so but you have to be reasonable.
FlyingFinn wrote:
Nov 05 2019 3:34am
robocam wrote:
Nov 05 2019 3:28am
Hold on a second here. You asked for $130, got your $130, and now you’re complaining and want more? That doesn’t sound very reasonable or fair.
This was well before the total cost of the replacement was known. If it would have been only the freehub it would have been $130. The claim was changed accordingly in Alibaba when the real extent of the issue that the whole rear wheel must be re-built was discovered.
Yes I’ve been in full contact to them in AliBaba messages. They’ve responded there as well except to my last messages. I’ve provided the full arsenal of photos to them as attached to the refund claim.

They’ve made the decision to decline my 311$ refund application so we can assume they’ve had enough time to respond. The time to respond in Alibaba is around 7 days.

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robocam   10 kW

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Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by robocam » Nov 05 2019 4:15am

Why do you think they owe you $311? I mean, it sucks that this happened to you but let’s see if we’re being reasonable customers here.
FlyingFinn wrote:
Nov 05 2019 4:08am
...They’ve made the decision to decline my 311$ refund application...

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Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by FlyingFinn » Nov 05 2019 4:25am

robocam wrote:
Nov 05 2019 4:15am
Why do you think they owe you $311? I mean, it sucks that this happened to you but let’s see if we’re being reasonable customers here.
FlyingFinn wrote:
Nov 05 2019 4:08am
...They’ve made the decision to decline my 311$ refund application...
Because that’s the price how much it cost for me to put the bike back to working order. 224$ for parts and 87$ for work.

I don’t know how you define warranty but to my knowledge it means fixing stuff back to working order at the expense of the seller.

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Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by robocam » Nov 05 2019 4:27am

What did the $224 in parts cover? What specific parts did you buy? Was it an upgraded/different hub?
FlyingFinn wrote:
Nov 05 2019 4:25am
Because that’s the price how much it cost for me to put the bike back to working order. 224$ for parts and 87$ for work.

I don’t know how you define warranty but to my knowledge it means fixing stuff back to working order at the expense of the seller.

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Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by FlyingFinn » Nov 05 2019 4:54am

robocam wrote:
Nov 05 2019 4:27am
What did the $224 in parts cover? What specific parts did you buy? Was it an upgraded/different hub?
FlyingFinn wrote:
Nov 05 2019 4:25am
Because that’s the price how much it cost for me to put the bike back to working order. 224$ for parts and 87$ for work.

I don’t know how you define warranty but to my knowledge it means fixing stuff back to working order at the expense of the seller.
I bought a DT Swiss 190mm rear hub. As it was the last example of 190mm rear hub with thru-axle in the whole of Finland (only 5.5M inhabitants) and the rear wheel was already sitting dismantled in a different bikeshop I understandably didn’t have much choice. The receipt of the hub is in the message above.

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robocam   10 kW

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Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by robocam » Nov 05 2019 5:01am

So you think it’s fair to ask Frey to pay the full cost of your upgraded DT Swiss hub?
FlyingFinn wrote:
Nov 05 2019 4:54am
It was a DT Swiss 190mm rear hub. As it was the last example of 190mm rear hub with thru-axle in the whole of Finland (only 5.5M inhabitants) and the rear wheel was already sitting dismantled in a different bikeshop I understandably didn’t have much choice. The receipt of the hub is in a message above.

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Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by Hardcore » Nov 05 2019 5:31am

Just for your information, i accepted the 130USD hub replacement money in my case, which is far more than the value/actual costs. Then I bought an upgraded DT swiss wheel myself. Going around the warranty process and start replacing your broken parts and then expecting them to pay is not reasonable nor agreed upon beforehand from what I read. Them sending a new rear wheel would have been the warranty coverage you're talking about or sending a hub and pay for the costs of changing/rebuilding.

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