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Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Posted: Nov 05 2019 3:18am
by FlyingFinn
Frey provided a resolution of 130$. For total costs of 311$ this is more like a joke. Dispute escalated to AliBaba. Now you can see what the real ”Frey warranty” means. At best after thorough negotiations they might offer a partial refund...

The best was in a message above when they offered a 36-hole hub as a replacement in a 32-hole rim :lol:

Receipt of the new hub:

Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Posted: Nov 05 2019 3:28am
by robocam
Hold on a second here. You asked for $130 (which is probably a lot more than what that hub is worth), got your $130, and now you’re complaining and want more? That doesn’t sound very reasonable or fair.

They gave you EXACTLY what you asked for, and now you’re escalating it to Ali even though you already filed a claim?

I think Frey has already been more than fair giving you $130 for something they probably paid $10 for, and replacing a hub should cost somewhere around $60.
FlyingFinn wrote:
Nov 05 2019 3:18am
Frey provided a resolution of 130$. For total costs of 311$ this is more like a joke. Dispute escalated to AliBaba. Now you can see what the real ”Frey warranty” means.

The best was in a message above when they offered a 36-hole hub as a replacement in a 32-hole rim :lol:

Receipt of the new hub:

Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Posted: Nov 05 2019 3:33am
by FlyingFinn
double

Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Posted: Nov 05 2019 3:34am
by FlyingFinn
robocam wrote:
Nov 05 2019 3:28am
Hold on a second here. You asked for $130, got your $130, and now you’re complaining and want more? That doesn’t sound very reasonable or fair.
This was well before the total cost of the replacement was known. If it would have been only the freehub it would have been $130. The claim was changed accordingly in Alibaba when the real extent of the issue that the whole rear wheel must be re-built was discovered.

Secondly the bike was almost new. 2 weeks, 200km’s. Thus it’s reasonable that Frey covers all the costs.

Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Posted: Nov 05 2019 3:47am
by robocam
Are you in private communication with Frey about this? Did you even give them a chance to respond?

What I think would be fair is to have them either send you a new wheel (we’er past that in this case), or if they’re ok with it, pay a reasonable cost to cover the labor to install your own hub (~$60) and pay you the actual cost (what they pay) of the Quanta hub.

I have no doubt Frey would want to make this right because it’s in their best interest to do so but you have to be reasonable.
FlyingFinn wrote:
Nov 05 2019 3:34am
robocam wrote:
Nov 05 2019 3:28am
Hold on a second here. You asked for $130, got your $130, and now you’re complaining and want more? That doesn’t sound very reasonable or fair.
This was well before the total cost of the replacement was known. If it would have been only the freehub it would have been $130. The claim was changed accordingly in Alibaba when the real extent of the issue that the whole rear wheel must be re-built was discovered.

Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Posted: Nov 05 2019 4:08am
by FlyingFinn
robocam wrote:
Nov 05 2019 3:47am
Are you in private communication with Frey about this? Did you even give them a chance to respond?

What I think would be fair is to have them either send you a new wheel (we’er past that in this case), or if they’re ok with it, pay a reasonable cost to cover the labor to install your own hub (~$60) and pay you the actual cost (what they pay) of the Quanta hub.

I have no doubt Frey would want to make this right because it’s in their best interest to do so but you have to be reasonable.
FlyingFinn wrote:
Nov 05 2019 3:34am
robocam wrote:
Nov 05 2019 3:28am
Hold on a second here. You asked for $130, got your $130, and now you’re complaining and want more? That doesn’t sound very reasonable or fair.
This was well before the total cost of the replacement was known. If it would have been only the freehub it would have been $130. The claim was changed accordingly in Alibaba when the real extent of the issue that the whole rear wheel must be re-built was discovered.
Yes I’ve been in full contact to them in AliBaba messages. They’ve responded there as well except to my last messages. I’ve provided the full arsenal of photos to them as attached to the refund claim.

They’ve made the decision to decline my 311$ refund application so we can assume they’ve had enough time to respond. The time to respond in Alibaba is around 7 days.

Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Posted: Nov 05 2019 4:15am
by robocam
Why do you think they owe you $311? I mean, it sucks that this happened to you but let’s see if we’re being reasonable customers here.
FlyingFinn wrote:
Nov 05 2019 4:08am
...They’ve made the decision to decline my 311$ refund application...

Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Posted: Nov 05 2019 4:25am
by FlyingFinn
robocam wrote:
Nov 05 2019 4:15am
Why do you think they owe you $311? I mean, it sucks that this happened to you but let’s see if we’re being reasonable customers here.
FlyingFinn wrote:
Nov 05 2019 4:08am
...They’ve made the decision to decline my 311$ refund application...
Because that’s the price how much it cost for me to put the bike back to working order. 224$ for parts and 87$ for work.

I don’t know how you define warranty but to my knowledge it means fixing stuff back to working order at the expense of the seller.

Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Posted: Nov 05 2019 4:27am
by robocam
What did the $224 in parts cover? What specific parts did you buy? Was it an upgraded/different hub?
FlyingFinn wrote:
Nov 05 2019 4:25am
Because that’s the price how much it cost for me to put the bike back to working order. 224$ for parts and 87$ for work.

I don’t know how you define warranty but to my knowledge it means fixing stuff back to working order at the expense of the seller.

Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Posted: Nov 05 2019 4:54am
by FlyingFinn
robocam wrote:
Nov 05 2019 4:27am
What did the $224 in parts cover? What specific parts did you buy? Was it an upgraded/different hub?
FlyingFinn wrote:
Nov 05 2019 4:25am
Because that’s the price how much it cost for me to put the bike back to working order. 224$ for parts and 87$ for work.

I don’t know how you define warranty but to my knowledge it means fixing stuff back to working order at the expense of the seller.
I bought a DT Swiss 190mm rear hub. As it was the last example of 190mm rear hub with thru-axle in the whole of Finland (only 5.5M inhabitants) and the rear wheel was already sitting dismantled in a different bikeshop I understandably didn’t have much choice. The receipt of the hub is in the message above.

Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Posted: Nov 05 2019 5:01am
by robocam
So you think it’s fair to ask Frey to pay the full cost of your upgraded DT Swiss hub?
FlyingFinn wrote:
Nov 05 2019 4:54am
It was a DT Swiss 190mm rear hub. As it was the last example of 190mm rear hub with thru-axle in the whole of Finland (only 5.5M inhabitants) and the rear wheel was already sitting dismantled in a different bikeshop I understandably didn’t have much choice. The receipt of the hub is in a message above.

Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Posted: Nov 05 2019 5:31am
by Hardcore
Just for your information, i accepted the 130USD hub replacement money in my case, which is far more than the value/actual costs. Then I bought an upgraded DT swiss wheel myself. Going around the warranty process and start replacing your broken parts and then expecting them to pay is not reasonable nor agreed upon beforehand from what I read. Them sending a new rear wheel would have been the warranty coverage you're talking about or sending a hub and pay for the costs of changing/rebuilding.

Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Posted: Nov 05 2019 7:06am
by FlyingFinn
Hardcore wrote:
Nov 05 2019 5:31am
Just for your information, i accepted the 130USD hub replacement money in my case, which is far more than the value/actual costs. Then I bought an upgraded DT swiss wheel myself. Going around the warranty process and start replacing your broken parts and then expecting them to pay is not reasonable nor agreed upon beforehand from what I read. Them sending a new rear wheel would have been the warranty coverage you're talking about or sending a hub and pay for the costs of changing/rebuilding.
Well atleast to pay the value of the orginal hub 100$? and replacement work 87$.

Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Posted: Nov 05 2019 12:02pm
by Hardcore
I have no idea about the costs of things, nor did I expect them to pay the replacement costs fully in my case as in Switzerland the hourly rate is simply too high compared to, for instance, China. So I was happy with my resolution as I got the bike up and running within 3 days. I don't know what else you can expect from them. If you believe you deserve a better deal by all means

Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Posted: Nov 06 2019 12:14am
by FlyingFinn
Hardcore wrote:
Nov 05 2019 12:02pm
I have no idea about the costs of things, nor did I expect them to pay the replacement costs fully in my case as in Switzerland the hourly rate is simply too high compared to, for instance, China. So I was happy with my resolution as I got the bike up and running within 3 days. I don't know what else you can expect from them. If you believe you deserve a better deal by all means
As I was told that this was the first case involving this particular issue after hundreds of sold bikes and you can’t afford to pay 300$ to cover your f*ck-up, I think you’re in the wrong business.

I do retail myself and would never treat my customers like this if the fault has been at my end. The key priority is to get the end product fixed asap and the client happy. If it involves more expensive labour then it does. In the end the client hasn’t chosen where it breaks. Client chooses only where he buys...

If you’re only covering to pay rates for an Asian wrench-wielding flip flop masterpiece then don’t call it a warranty. Then it’s something else like: Free spare parts for a limited time and the new part arrives after a month! Meanwhile you can enjoy walking...

Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Posted: Nov 06 2019 12:21am
by robocam
When you contacted Frey, what options did they give you?
FlyingFinn wrote:
Nov 06 2019 12:14am
As I was told that this was the first case involving this particular issue after hundreds of sold bikes and you can’t afford to pay 300$ to cover your f*ck-up, I think you’re in the wrong business.

I do retail myself and would never treat my customers like this if the fault has been at my end. The key priority is to get the end product fixed asap and the client happy. If it involves more expensive labour then it does. In the end the client hasn’t chosen where it breaks. Client chooses only where he buys...

If you’re only covering to pay rates from an Asian wrench-wielding flip flop masterpiece then don’t call it a warranty. Then it’s something else like: Free spare parts for a limited time and the new part arrives after a month! Meanwhile you can enjoy walking...

Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Posted: Nov 06 2019 12:33am
by robocam
Just curious about your opinion on how this is being handled.
formula101 wrote:
Oct 31 2019 10:10pm
LOL, I sure hope for their sake Frey doesn't scam you on customer service. It would prove my point, but....

Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Posted: Nov 06 2019 1:54am
by FlyingFinn
robocam wrote:
Nov 06 2019 12:21am
When you contacted Frey, what options did they give you?
Offered a new 36-hole hub to be installed on a 32-hole rim. Only a true genius would try something like that. Would had had to buy another rim on my own...

Or

130$ cash which I escalated to AliBaba.

Or

A new rear wheel which I don’t need since I already bought the new hub.

Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Posted: Nov 06 2019 4:01am
by Elinx
FlyingFinn wrote:
Nov 06 2019 1:54am

Offered a ......
130$ cash which I escalated to AliBaba.
.....
Please I really don't understand why you are dissapointed in Frey. You have reason to be dissapointed of the quality of (some) parts, but IMHO Frey has given your reasonable offers. That you didn't want two of these offers I can imagine.
Here in your first post you announced this problem:
FlyingFinn wrote:
Oct 29 2019 5:07pm
]........
Had to buy a DT Swiss rear hub for 259€!!! ........
I opened a partial refund case for $130 in AliBaba. This episode is going to cost me atleast 350€ replacement work included!........
They offered this asked amount to you too and you have escalate it to a dispute.
I don't understand why there must be a dispute if Frey is giving you what your asking for.

Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Posted: Nov 06 2019 4:27am
by FlyingFinn
Elinx wrote:
Nov 06 2019 4:01am
FlyingFinn wrote:
Nov 06 2019 1:54am

Offered a ......
130$ cash which I escalated to AliBaba.
.....
Please I really don't understand why you are dissapointed in Frey. You have reason to be dissapointed of the quality of (some) parts, but IMHO Frey has given your reasonable offers. That you didn't want two of these offers I can imagine.
Here in your first post you announced this problem:
FlyingFinn wrote:
Oct 29 2019 5:07pm
]........
Had to buy a DT Swiss rear hub for 259€!!! ........
I opened a partial refund case for $130 in AliBaba. This episode is going to cost me atleast 350€ replacement work included!........
They offered this asked amount to you too and you have escalate it to a dispute.
I don't understand why there must be a dispute if Frey is giving you what your asking for.
They refused to pay that amount at first. Now when the real extent of the issue was discovered I’m not happy with that amount anymore.

Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Posted: Nov 06 2019 7:58am
by Elinx
FlyingFinn wrote:
Nov 06 2019 4:27am
...
They refused to pay that amount at first. Now when the real extent of the issue was discovered I’m not happy with that amount anymore.
OK, that explains something, but I can imagine that Alibaba conclude the same as I did first.
I hope for you it will be different.

Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Posted: Nov 06 2019 11:25am
by robocam
When they refused to pay that amount, was this through the Ali messaging system or here in this thread? Was it before or after you showed them pictures?
FlyingFinn wrote:
Nov 06 2019 4:27am
Elinx wrote:
Nov 06 2019 4:01am
FlyingFinn wrote:
Nov 06 2019 1:54am

Offered a ......
130$ cash which I escalated to AliBaba.
.....
Please I really don't understand why you are dissapointed in Frey. You have reason to be dissapointed of the quality of (some) parts, but IMHO Frey has given your reasonable offers. That you didn't want two of these offers I can imagine.
Here in your first post you announced this problem:
FlyingFinn wrote:
Oct 29 2019 5:07pm
]........
Had to buy a DT Swiss rear hub for 259€!!! ........
I opened a partial refund case for $130 in AliBaba. This episode is going to cost me atleast 350€ replacement work included!........
They offered this asked amount to you too and you have escalate it to a dispute.
I don't understand why there must be a dispute if Frey is giving you what your asking for.
They refused to pay that amount at first. Now when the real extent of the issue was discovered I’m not happy with that amount anymore.

Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Posted: Nov 06 2019 11:32am
by robocam
I checked with a square this time (to make sure the ruler markings line up), and it is closer to 28-3/4" at the lowest point. The bike is flat on the ground unloaded. That's just about where you would be if you got off your seat. This is a medium framed X-1. Batboy, I'll try to measure my AM1000 for you soon.
IMG_0956 - standover-s.jpg
IMG_0956 - standover-s.jpg (103.96 KiB) Viewed 2822 times
formula101 wrote:
Oct 29 2019 6:50pm
Do you mind posting a photo? The question is what is the standover at the point where someone would actually stand over the bicycle not the lowest possible standover measurement obtainable.

In bicycle shoes, someone with a 28" inseam might improve their standover by half an inch.

Bikes these days (27.5, 29, 26 with fat tires) with suspension, aren't really designed to have much more than 29" of standover in a best case scenario...

Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Posted: Nov 06 2019 11:37am
by FlyingFinn
robocam wrote:
Nov 06 2019 11:25am
When they refused to pay that amount, was this through the Ali messaging system or here in this thread? Was it before or after you showed them pictures?
FlyingFinn wrote:
Nov 06 2019 4:27am
Elinx wrote:
Nov 06 2019 4:01am
FlyingFinn wrote:
Nov 06 2019 1:54am

Offered a ......
130$ cash which I escalated to AliBaba.
.....
Please I really don't understand why you are dissapointed in Frey. You have reason to be dissapointed of the quality of (some) parts, but IMHO Frey has given your reasonable offers. That you didn't want two of these offers I can imagine.
Here in your first post you announced this problem:
FlyingFinn wrote:
Oct 29 2019 5:07pm
]........
Had to buy a DT Swiss rear hub for 259€!!! ........
I opened a partial refund case for $130 in AliBaba. This episode is going to cost me atleast 350€ replacement work included!........
They offered this asked amount to you too and you have escalate it to a dispute.
I don't understand why there must be a dispute if Frey is giving you what your asking for.
They refused to pay that amount at first. Now when the real extent of the issue was discovered I’m not happy with that amount anymore.
It was in Alibaba before the pictures when the bikeshop wrongfully informed me that only the freehub needs to be changed.

Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Posted: Nov 06 2019 1:19pm
by robocam
So initially you wanted Frey to give you $130 when you thought it just needed a new freehub?
FlyingFinn wrote:
Nov 06 2019 11:37am
It was in Alibaba before the pictures when the bikeshop wrongfully informed me that only the freehub needs to be changed.