My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

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Tom   100 W

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Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by Tom » Mar 14 2020 3:41pm

Not sure, it says it's "a modulating controller as opposed to a fast switching on/off style controller. [snip] As a result of moving to the new modulating controller, we were able to gain nearly 20% - as in some cases as high as 25% efficiency in the motor."

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Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by FREYebikes » Mar 14 2020 10:08pm

Hi,

About your battery concern question, here I answer for you and correct one point about your communication with Grace.
That is our cooperation battery supplier custom battery for us, we do not produce battery ourselves. maybe there is a little misunderstanding on it. hope it is clear now.

And we confirm you that the strips between cells are pure nickel in our batteries now.

And if apply for 48V17.5Ah battery with 3500mA cells, we still need to use the Dorado Plus case for our AM1000. because there is not enough space to fit the 35A currect BMS inside of the flat Dorado case.

Best Regards,
Ivy Wang
barbarossa wrote:
Mar 06 2020 2:05am
mewanderinghome wrote:
Mar 05 2020 11:37pm
barbarossa wrote:
Feb 26 2020 6:39am
i made the battery teardown of my original 48 volts 13s6p battery (LG MJ1 cells).
i am disappointed about the original built.
several strips had a little rust:
rust.JPG
this means this strip is not pure nickel but nickel plated steel.
nickel plated steel is a horrible conductor and for that reason gets really hot.
yep, the top isolation melted a little. of course it melted at the serial connections because the serial connections i have seen inside the battery were only 2 nickel strips (sometimes more layers per strip connection but not always). 15 amps per strip thats too much for a normal pure nickel strip in that size. but it is dangerous using nickel plated steel (!) :(
Thanks Barbarossa as always for your detailed findings regarding this bike. I bought one in the group buy in early January, and so I'm still waiting for it (production has been delayed by production slowdowns due to covid-19). It doesn't seem like Ivy or Grace monitor this thread as closely as Ivy used to, so I brought this potentially dangerous finding to Grace's attention. I asked Grace if Frey builds their own battery, and if so would they fix this inexpensively resolved issue for the bikes to be delivered in the group buy. Her response:

"we build the battery. Well, after check with our Tech Department, the issue you mentioned don't have now, that is our old AM1000 version 2.0 or 3.0, now we already updated the frame and battery case in 5.0 version, the compatibility and the precision are very good, so don't worry about it."

I've asked her about 1 bazillion questions since placing my order, so don't really want to bug her any further about it, but I do wish I knew for sure she fully understood the question and specifically addressed whether the strips are now solid nickel or still the inadequate nickel-plated steel. If anyone else wants to call her attention to it too (and ask that specific question), it might help make sure Frey addresses this potentially dangerous but inexpensively resolved issue, since they do build their own batteries.

PS- since they build their own batteries I also asked Grace if I could get the smaller 48v 17.4ah battery in the slimmer-profile Reention Dorado Plus case instead of the bulbous Dorado Max, and Grace said they're now using the Dorado Plus case for the smaller battery. So I'm hopeful I won't have that unnecessarily-wide Dorado Max case that sticks out from the frame on the left side. I'll let you know when I get the bike (end of May probably :( ) so that mystery can finally be resolved :)
hi again, mewanderinghome !

mmmhhhh... i know what you mean: is this problem really addressed ? Or it is even considered as a problem ?
design of the battery case did not really change since years - meaning my old battery is identical to my new battery case that i bought a few months ago. except some minor changes concerning the upper plastic end.
but hey it is not a rocket science.
i would say 3 inexpensive things are important:

1) of course only pure nickel strips should be used.
2) serial connections should be 3 layers of pure nickel for each cell group instead of one. here 2 original serial connections - connecting 2 battery blocks with each other:
serial.JPG

3) negative and positive pole should be 3 or 4 layers. have a look at my negative and positive pole of my original 48v battery, the negative pole's PVC melted a little, too hot for all current going through :
positive_negative_pole.JPG

after all it is a solid handmade battery - no obvious risks of short circuits or something like that - only the weak connections are not really nice. i can forgive many problems but these little cells are not toys. maybe the risk is not really high but doing things a little better is never the wrong way. and that is the advantage of Frey i think - Frey communicates and is willing to learn - nobody is perfect.

but hey, you will get your desired smaller battery :bigthumb:

only downside, with Reention Dorado plus the Speedict Neptune 15 BMS might not fit - as most (even small) BMS won't. it would be interesting to see which BMS Frey uses with that smaller Reention Dorado plus. there is not much room inside. Neptune 15 has the same dimensions as the original BMS of my 48v battery had - only difference it is a little thicker. and even with Dorado Max battery it is a tight fit.
bms.JPG

FlyingFinn   100 W

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Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by FlyingFinn » Mar 15 2020 5:04am

In cold climate usage you will get more range without nickel strips. Steel-nickel strips will keep the battery warmer.

Setup for optimal range would be nickel strips and a battery pouch.

john61ct   10 GW

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Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by john61ct » Mar 15 2020 6:51am

Cold enough, active warming, especially charging over 0.1C rate.


FlyingFinn   100 W

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Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by FlyingFinn » Mar 15 2020 7:14am

Everything is closed but atleast you can enjoy the spring and nice weather.

I’ve never been happier owning my FAT1000. This is one of the last forms of sport you can enjoy at the moment which makes it even more nicer.
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barbarossa   1 W

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Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by barbarossa » Mar 15 2020 7:48am

i think it is vice versa for extrem cold environments. modern cells can withstand cold environments very good - especially the LG MJ1. each cell gets warmer based on the chemical discharging process after a while. if cell is very cold it is even more stressed because the motor pulls its amps and the resistance of nickel plated steel is worse - that's when the cell loses extreme capacity and alters extremely. during your ride you also always lose the watts - no matter if cells are heated up to normal operation temperature. and of course sooner or later it will rust.
also for hot environments it is not good because in that case heat is your enemy.
Normally the only purpose of nickel plated steel strips is for low amp applications.
my opinion… :D

anyways, Europe's society is -how should I say- "shutting down" caused by Corona. but yeah : it is a wonderful day to ride !!!!! :bigthumb:
@FlyingFinn: nice photo & nice bike !!!!!!!
RIDE ON !!!!!

john61ct   10 GW

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Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by john61ct » Mar 15 2020 8:12am


barbarossa wrote:i think it is vice versa for extrem cold environments.
I was talking about **charging**, if too cold will destroy the cells, instant scrap.

Especially at too high a rate.

Cannot rely on harmful internally generated heat, need to warm the cells from the outside.

Bringing inside to charge is also an easy solution.

Yes of course while **not** in use, colder is better, but that's an entirely different subject



bugnut   10 mW

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Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by bugnut » Mar 15 2020 8:20am

Skankhuntr wrote:
Mar 12 2020 6:31pm
Tom wrote:
Mar 12 2020 5:57pm
Full price up front. If you pay with CC you go thru Alibaba's payment processing which includes an extra % fee (in my case pretty much a wash against my credit card rewards). With other methods I wouldn't want to pay twice as you'd get zinged with flat fees for wire or money transfer twice.
Thanks Tom!

I'm debating on whether to get this in large or XL. I'm 1.87 cm (~6.2 ft). Anyone here around the same height that can give me an idea which size would fit best? Someone said the Frey bikes ran fairly large.
Skankhuntr,

I am 6'2" also, I went with the XL. At first I was worried but now I am glad that I did.

barbarossa   1 W

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Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by barbarossa » Mar 15 2020 8:39am

john61ct wrote:
Mar 15 2020 8:12am
barbarossa wrote:i think it is vice versa for extrem cold environments.
I was talking about **charging**, if too cold will destroy the cells, instant scrap.

Especially at too high a rate.

Cannot rely on harmful internally generated heat, need to warm the cells from the outside.

Bringing inside to charge is also an easy solution.

Yes of course while **not** in use, colder is better, but that's an entirely different subject
Ah...my post was related to flyingFinn‘s post about discharge range.
The real problem is charging at low temperatures- i totally agree.

FREYebikes   100 W

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Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by FREYebikes » Mar 21 2020 4:24am

Hi friends,

Hope everyone is good enough in your side and take care yourself!
We are trying to do something to support our orginal and new FREY customers. see our latest news below:
http://www.frey.bike/article/FREY-is-with-you.htm

If there is something we can support, please feel free contact us.

Best Regards,
Ivy Wang

Gizzygone   1 mW

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Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by Gizzygone » Mar 21 2020 8:14pm

I’m interested in ordering a FREY, but I’m curious how communication has been with others? I’ve heard good things; but it might be 2 days before I get a response.

I know time zones are an issue, along with corona; but the lack of communication concerns me (should I run into issues if I made a purchase!)

bugnut   10 mW

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Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by bugnut » Mar 22 2020 7:01am

Gizzygone wrote:
Mar 21 2020 8:14pm
I’m interested in ordering a FREY, but I’m curious how communication has been with others? I’ve heard good things; but it might be 2 days before I get a response.

I know time zones are an issue, along with corona; but the lack of communication concerns me (should I run into issues if I made a purchase!)
I have a AM1000. Let me tell you that FREY has been outstanding in standing behind their Bikes. I couldn't be happier with my dealings with them. Yes sometimes it may take 2 days, sometimes one, but they will get back to you.
All I can say is, Fear Not.

Tom   100 W

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Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by Tom » Mar 22 2020 6:02pm

bugnut wrote:
Mar 22 2020 7:01am
I have a AM1000. Let me tell you that FREY has been outstanding in standing behind their Bikes. I couldn't be happier with my dealings with them. Yes sometimes it may take 2 days, sometimes one, but they will get back to you.
All I can say is, Fear Not.
They have gotten quite busy as of late. I'm not so concerned about the delay in responding as much as whether they can maintain the same level of quality as they scale. For example, I heard they switched battery suppliers (original 'supplier couldn't scale) and saw one recent report of a user getting very disappointing range (and similarly for spare battery). Another CC user reported bolts showing rust. It is making me hesitant to recommend until I get my CC.

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robocam   10 kW

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Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by robocam » Mar 23 2020 3:51am

Wow, that is so kind of you. Thank you Ivy :)
FREYebikes wrote:
Mar 21 2020 4:24am
Hi friends,

Hope everyone is good enough in your side and take care yourself!
We are trying to do something to support our orginal and new FREY customers. see our latest news below:
http://www.frey.bike/article/FREY-is-with-you.htm

If there is something we can support, please feel free contact us.

Best Regards,
Ivy Wang

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Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by db5304 » Mar 23 2020 9:08am

Gizzygone wrote:
Mar 21 2020 8:14pm
I’m interested in ordering a FREY, but I’m curious how communication has been with others? I’ve heard good things; but it might be 2 days before I get a response.

I know time zones are an issue, along with corona; but the lack of communication concerns me (should I run into issues if I made a purchase!)
I've had pretty good experience with direct contact via Alibaba messaging or even email. However I do not seem to get email updates from Frey without contacting them first. Apparently there was an email that went out on the 18th that I did not get about order status. But when I reached out and asked for a status, I had a very prompt response from grace. They are not 24/7 so they do work local hours, so keep that in mind. If you are online during their hours I'm sure you get a very quick response, otherwise like stated it is about a day delay.

They've mentioned they wills end emails out on builds, but I haven't seen this. Curious if anyone else has gotten these emails?

cscscs   100 mW

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Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by cscscs » Mar 23 2020 10:09pm

I've lost one of the nuts on the rear linkage from my AM1000 frame. I sent an email to Frey to ask for a replacement. Wondering if anyone has had similar experience, if anyone knows the thread size/pitch (so I can get a temporary nut until I get a replacement), or if by chance anyone has a spare. And of course, a heads-up to check those on your frame and perhaps remove and reinstall with some thread locking compound. Picture attached for reference.
AM1000_MISSING_NUT.jpg
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cscscs   100 mW

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Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by cscscs » Mar 27 2020 2:38am

Temp replacement found at Ace hardware. Frey sending replacement (thanks Frey!) Ride on
AM1000_MISSING_NUT_temp.jpg
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mewanderinghome   1 mW

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Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by mewanderinghome » Mar 28 2020 1:17am

FREYebikes wrote:
Mar 14 2020 10:08pm
And we confirm you that the strips between cells are pure nickel in our batteries now.
And if apply for 48V17.5Ah battery with 3500mA cells, we still need to use the Dorado Plus case for our AM1000. because there is not enough space to fit the 35A currect BMS inside of the flat Dorado case.
Best Regards,
Ivy Wang
Ivy good to see you back on this thread :) And thank you for clarifying. Bummer to hear the flat case won't work for the smaller battery even though the cells would fit, but I understand the BMS won't (which is what barbarossa was curious about). One more thing that might lead to less confusion: the 'flat' case is the Dorado Plus, and the wider one that you're using is the Dorado Max.

Another question is the warranty. I see someone posted here about it. One of the major reasons I ordered the bike was because of your post Ivy that the warranty was 2 years..?

Thanks for your responses and I hope your family and friends are healthy, and that business is doing well. I just got the pictures of my built bike- thank you for getting things done as quickly as possible in these challenging times :)

cvin   10 W

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Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by cvin » Mar 28 2020 5:27pm

since this is the biggest ultra thread thought i would ask here

does anyone know of a bash guard for sale for the ultra motor?

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Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by db5304 » Mar 28 2020 6:33pm

[/quote]

I've had pretty good experience with direct contact via Alibaba messaging or even email. However I do not seem to get email updates from Frey without contacting them first. Apparently there was an email that went out on the 18th that I did not get about order status. But when I reached out and asked for a status, I had a very prompt response from grace. They are not 24/7 so they do work local hours, so keep that in mind. If you are online during their hours I'm sure you get a very quick response, otherwise like stated it is about a day delay.

They've mentioned they wills end emails out on builds, but I haven't seen this. Curious if anyone else has gotten these emails?
[/quote]

For some reasons my initial emails were going through with Frey, but they started to go to spam. Luckily Grace emailed me from a gmail account to follow up, and I was able to catch the email in my junk folder and remove them from junk. It is looking pretty good:
Image

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Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by FlyingFinn » Mar 31 2020 11:18am

Hi!

Have you encountered issues with the gear shift sensor jamming the cable? For me this issue repeats itself once in three months.

Solution is easy as though. When the cable jams in the sensor it lifts the cable housing away from the sensor. Just spray some silicone oil in there and the problem is solved. This mainly occurs when temps hover near freezing.

smov   100 µW

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Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by smov » Mar 31 2020 2:50pm

FlyingFinn wrote:
Mar 01 2020 10:09am
wiRider wrote:
Mar 01 2020 9:53am
FlyingFinn wrote:
Feb 25 2020 9:40am
scrambler wrote:
Feb 20 2020 2:00pm
Hi there,
Has anyone attempted to install a Rohloff on a Frey AM1000 or CC?
Thanks
To my understanding installing a Rohloff to the AM1000-frame would require a severe amount of high precision modding of the frame. Given that the value of the frame alone isn’t that high, around $500, I don’t deem it profitable. There is and will be Rohloff-compatible frames on the market that are ready from the box.
I think the “high precision modding of the frame” is only the case when pairing with a belt drive. You should be able to do a Rohloff with a standard chain. Since it is full suspension they can use a derailleur to take up the slack.
I didn’t know Rohloff makes those as well. I’ve only worked with belt driven Rohloffs. Thx for clarification!
Verify the maximal input torque of the rhloffs! I read 130 nm somewhere. With the 160 from the motor plus you pedalling hard... they are tough, but the ultra might be a bit too much?

john61ct   10 GW

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Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by john61ct » Mar 31 2020 3:18pm

Yes 130 N.m is the spec limit, obviously the max torque right at the shear pins.

But some designers measure their system work / torque in ways that produces much higher numbers overall.

FlyingFinn   100 W

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Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by FlyingFinn » Apr 04 2020 8:45am

I have my FAT1000 running 27.5 x 3.0 wheelset now.

Planning to upgrade to this:

27.5 is much better than 26 x 4-5 for summer usage in fatbikes. Everything ranging from 27.5 x 3.0 to 4.0.

Sinbord1981   100 W

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Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by Sinbord1981 » Apr 04 2020 10:30pm

My latest video, out riding on my >year old Frey AM1000.



Please let me know if you have any questions on the bikes as ai am more than happy to help answer them for you!

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