Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

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Gnistregn   1 µW

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by Gnistregn » May 03 2020 7:07am

Hello everyone. Sur-ron/forum newb here. Been trying to figure out what kind of tyres I can fit on the stock rims. I ride almost 100% street, and the knobby stock tyres don't feel all that great on asphalt. Been seeing some dimensions other than 70/100 mentioned here, but not entirely sure what other ones would work on the stock rims. Would greatly appreciate any insights before I make a costly mispurchase :)

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by SlowCo » May 03 2020 7:19am

Gnistregn wrote:
May 03 2020 7:07am
Hello everyone. Sur-ron/forum newb here. Been trying to figure out what kind of tyres I can fit on the stock rims. I ride almost 100% street, and the knobby stock tyres don't feel all that great on asphalt. Been seeing some dimensions other than 70/100 mentioned here, but not entirely sure what other ones would work on the stock rims. Would greatly appreciate any insights before I make a costly mispurchase :)

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by Gnistregn » May 03 2020 9:20am

Yeah, I saw that post, but I was a little confused about not all of the tips you gave being 2.75 inches (or 70 mm) wide, and I guessed running wider or thinner tires on the stock rims wouldn't be possible. Or is there a margin that allows for example 2.5" or 3.0" tires to run well?

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by SlowCo » May 03 2020 10:48am

This one might be even better: https://en.reifenwerk-heidenau.com/modu ... l=2&pic=78
It's a classic 2.25-19 moped tire so will probably be lighter than the 19" motorcycle tires. If you search online for moped tires for classic mopeds (Kreidler, Zündapp etc.) you'll probably find more brands. I think CST and Mitas have them also.

Edit to add:
https://www.amazon.de/VEE-RUBBER-Reifen ... ive&sr=1-5

https://www.oponeo.nl/motorbanden-detai ... #291642240 (Continental KKS 10 2.25-19)

https://www.oponeo.nl/motorbanden-detai ... #288059600 (Mitas H-02 2.50-19)

etc...

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by Offroader » May 03 2020 11:12am

thoroughbred wrote:
May 03 2020 6:08am
I would pay someone a $200 premium for a 24f now and also give you first right of refusal to the 24f I'm in line to receive from February order.

As for the throttle issue, my old Zero dirtbikes are like that, throttle does less and less the faster you go. Usually I don't need as much fine control at higher speeds offroad. I can see how it would be annoying trying to maintain a cruise speed with your thumb the whole time. I'll pay more attention riding with the X controller to compare...
What do you mean first right of refusal?

I wonder if the zero dritbikes had the same control as the nuclear, by controlling with phase amps.

The reason you get less control with the nuclear controller is that the throttle works like this when using phase amps to control the motor. When you twist your throttle it will give you a voltage range. From about 1 volts to 5 volts, the more you twist it the voltage rises from 1 volt to 5 volts.

That voltage range will determine how many phase amps it sends to your motor. Assuming you set your maximum phase amps at 500. You will get a graph like this.

1 volt = 0 phase amps
2 volt = 125 phase amps allowed to be sent to the motor
3 volt = 250 phase amps "
4 volt = 375 phase amps "
5 volt = 500 phase amps "


What happens is your motor can only use so many phase amps depending on your speed. It is something like this:

0-5 MPH 500 phase amps
10 MPH 400 phase amps
20 mph 300 phase amps
30 MPH 200 phase amps
40 MPH 100 phase amps

If you see the the problem here is that at higher speeds your motor only can use 100-200 phase amps even though the controller is allowing it to to use up to 500 phase amps.

This is why you have a dead range in the throttle. At 40 MPH your motor can only use 100 phase amps. At that speeds you lose 80% of your throttle range, only the first 20% of your throttle movement will give you the 100 phase amps.

Its all in the math and controller programming how this works. There is no getting around it unless they revise the programming to change how the throttle works at varying speeds which I recommended to nuclear controller developer.

I have made some changes to the voltage of my throttle to try and lessen this effect which has helped, but nothing will make it right until they revise the programming.

The controller is usable like this, it may not bother you that much, and they may always revise it in the future. So if you or anyone wants this controller then please buy it. I'm just saying that at higher speeds you will be controlling your bike with just the first 25% of movement of the throttle, the rest of the throttle movement will not do a thing. You may be able to control it with just a small amount of throttle range, but it will be twitchy.

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by Ttwinsupra » May 03 2020 11:36am

tolkaNo wrote:
May 02 2020 11:34pm
Does anyone ride the sur-ron as supermoto on 16" wheels with some bigger tires?


Why not 17"? Isn't that standard supermoto size? Is it cuz the sur ron is smaller itself?
Ive been thinking about goin supermoto, i find myself riding street alot due to where i live, and i haven't even ridden my SMR since i got the sur ron...

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by Gnistregn » May 03 2020 3:12pm

SlowCo wrote:
May 03 2020 10:48am
This one might be even better: https://en.reifenwerk-heidenau.com/modu ... l=2&pic=78
It's a classic 2.25-19 moped tire so will probably be lighter than the 19" motorcycle tires. If you search online for moped tires for classic mopeds (Kreidler, Zündapp etc.) you'll probably find more brands. I think CST and Mitas have them also.

Edit to add:
https://www.amazon.de/VEE-RUBBER-Reifen ... ive&sr=1-5

https://www.oponeo.nl/motorbanden-detai ... #291642240 (Continental KKS 10 2.25-19)

https://www.oponeo.nl/motorbanden-detai ... #288059600 (Mitas H-02 2.50-19)

etc...
Thanks for all the links! Those all look great, but is there a way to know if the tire sits well on the rim? The 2.25-19 moped tire looks really lean and nice, but I'm (maybe unfounded) worrying about the tire beads not pushing up enough against at the rim? How much margin does one have when going for smaller sizes? Would a 2.0-19 be too thin, for example?
Thanks again!

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by tolkaNo » May 03 2020 5:28pm

Ttwinsupra wrote:
May 03 2020 11:36am
Why not 17"? Isn't that standard supermoto size? Is it cuz the sur ron is smaller itself?
Ive been thinking about goin supermoto, i find myself riding street alot due to where i live, and i haven't even ridden my SMR since i got the sur ron...
17" looks ok if you run fairly skinny tires, saw some pics on FB of people running bigger tires on the 17" wheel set and it just looked enormous to me

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by Rix » May 03 2020 6:51pm

SlowCo wrote:
May 03 2020 7:19am
Gnistregn wrote:
May 03 2020 7:07am
Hello everyone. Sur-ron/forum newb here. Been trying to figure out what kind of tyres I can fit on the stock rims. I ride almost 100% street, and the knobby stock tyres don't feel all that great on asphalt. Been seeing some dimensions other than 70/100 mentioned here, but not entirely sure what other ones would work on the stock rims. Would greatly appreciate any insights before I make a costly mispurchase :)
/view.php?lang=en&point=3&rtyp=19&profil=132&pic=16[/url]
[/quote]

Any tire you can find in the 19" sizes from 2.25 to 3.25" wide will fit on the SurRon 1.40 X 19 rim without much drama.

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by efMX Trials Electric Freeride » May 03 2020 7:07pm

tire fitting on the rim versus fitting into the front fork width are two different things of course.. >2.75 - 3"+ may not fit in the fork depending on how the manufacturer measures tire width..
some ride & sk8 videos:
metacafe.com/channels/NATAS666DAMIEN
http://www.youtube.com/natas666damien
i have nothing for sale.. :)

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by SlowCo » May 04 2020 3:45am

I think (rotational) weight wise a narrow 19" tire in 2.25 or 2.5 width will work best for on road use. And that are mostly tires meant for classic mopeds as I linked to last.

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by SCM » May 04 2020 6:44am

Offroader wrote:
May 02 2020 12:42am
I finally got my new 24 fet nuclear controller hooked up and will need more time to fully give my opinion about this controller. This is supposedly the best and most recommended controller for this bike. It does give a lot more power, great display screen, and controlability to the bike even with using the stock battery, with one major flaw.

The controller is still a "work in progress", meaning it works well, but is still in development. It definitely is not a plug and play controller like the x-controller is. You have to really do a lot of reading/research and program it for your bike. You can upload other peoples controller settings so that could simplify things, but nobody really does this yet. It also just doesn't attach to the bike very easily, you will have to deal with mounting it and dealing with the phase and battery wires. Not that big of a deal but its not plug and play, I had to even zip tie the controller down at two locations.......
Thanks for sharing your thoughts on this topic Offroader! I am also in the waiting list for one, it's good to know what to expect in terms of assembly etc. For me, seems like I need to bring in some help for this. :) I would also, like you say, appreciate if I could download a preset config-file that has been tweaked already for a Surron. Not sure how easy it is to auto-setup, seems that some people run into issues with it. Well, still some months left on the list for me, perhaps most things have been sorted out until then as more and more people get their controllers and share experience here with them.

Thanks to all for sharing, it's really helpful for a newbie to e-bikes like me! :bigthumb:

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by Offroader » May 04 2020 1:14pm

It isn't too bad to install it, it will just take a lot of time. I'll post some pictures on how I did it which will really help. I asked around and some people shared pictures on how they mounted it. Take pictures on how you remove everything because you will want them if you have to install your x-controller. Try to keep track of where all the bolts you remove go and how the brackets were positioned.

It was a pretty big project though to be honest. Just getting everything setup, there are so many programming parameters to set. Even stuff like figuring out how to make the unit turn on and off with the key will make time. Or how to set the kickstand to turn off motor.

Best to start reading the manual before you get the controller to give you an idea of all the settings. It takes me sometimes 5 minutes to find certain settings and where they are as there are so many. Sometimes I have to go through everything numerous times to figure out where the setting I need to change is located, only to forget a few days later where I made that change.

It should go smoothly but just expect a lot of time to do everything.

I fixed my throttle issues somewhat with some voltage changes to my throttle and now my throttle control is much better to the point it is not an issue really. The controller is really great. It gives a lot of additional power over the x-controller. Plus you get regen. It does add a lot more fun into the bike.

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by Rix » May 04 2020 4:43pm

efMX Trials Electric Freeride wrote:
May 03 2020 7:07pm
tire fitting on the rim versus fitting into the front fork width are two different things of course.. >2.75 - 3"+ may not fit in the fork depending on how the manufacturer measures tire width..
Thats a good point Natas, I can fit, some forks, due to design, can't fit a a 3.25 tire. Some can. This is something the end user needs to pay attention to when pushing the wider sizes.

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by Allex » May 04 2020 5:32pm

Allex wrote:
Jan 18 2020 6:18pm
Rix wrote:
Jan 17 2020 10:33pm
Got my new X Lightbee in. Its a bit better than the first generation. Put some trials tires on and got Motomoto's 55T sprocket and chain on. Thanks Kim for cutting the chain to length. Haven't ridden it yet, maybe this weekend.
Wzup Rix! Missed this small bee too much?
Have not posted it here but:
Just got got my modded controller fixed now. We fitted 24F Nuc inside.
Thx team Nucular!
Image

Worth it for me, because it is plug and play, screw on using original mounts without hassling with new mounts and besides, it looks stock even though it is tuned!
This bike is so sick now! Belt drive and 12kW pops wheelies just like that at 50km/h
Tops at around 100km/h did not have time to experiment much with settings yet though.
16s13p 30q (39Ah vs stock 32Ah) pack in original battery casing too!

It will be brutal with 20s
You should test drive one Rick ;)

Yeah Hopefully I will offer kit containing battery and controller
Controller spec:
Maximum power 20 000W
Nominal power 10 000W
Voltage range 20-90V
Phase max 500A
Battery max ~300A

With above battery I can only run 195A so I am limited to about 12kW
And now it is time for the battery
72V 35Ah with 300A BT BMS inside the original battery casing makes the bike look like stock and no need for a battery cover or frame modification like other packs require. It takes a lot of time to fit everything, this build is really tight!
Pack can do 300Amps discharge but I would not recommend pushing it for long as stock surron wiring is not sized for it.

I will make these to the public but in this case they will be 32Ah and 270A discharge as it is extremely time consuming to make it 35Ah. No prices yet.

Charging can be done through the controller using a PSU if you have a NUCular or a regular 72V li-ion charger if you have another controller.
You can monitor the cell status, do balancing and see some other info about cells and current using your phone
Attachments
DSC00262.JPG
DSC00262.JPG (246.06 KiB) Viewed 1013 times
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Last edited by Allex on May 08 2020 3:24am, edited 1 time in total.

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efMX Trials Electric Freeride   1 MW

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by efMX Trials Electric Freeride » May 04 2020 7:05pm

Rix wrote:
May 04 2020 4:43pm
efMX Trials Electric Freeride wrote:
May 03 2020 7:07pm
tire fitting on the rim versus fitting into the front fork width are two different things of course.. >2.75 - 3"+ may not fit in the fork depending on how the manufacturer measures tire width..
Thats a good point Natas, I can fit, some forks, due to design, can't fit a a 3.25 tire. Some can. This is something the end user needs to pay attention to when pushing the wider sizes.
roger dodger.. 3.0 shinko 241 did not fit my dnm fork well bc of the narrower width at the usd seals.. but it did fit in my marz cross brace fork, just tight.. :thumb:
some ride & sk8 videos:
metacafe.com/channels/NATAS666DAMIEN
http://www.youtube.com/natas666damien
i have nothing for sale.. :)

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by sens_dep » May 05 2020 3:21pm

Allex wrote:
May 04 2020 5:32pm
Allex wrote:
Jan 18 2020 6:18pm
Rix wrote:
Jan 17 2020 10:33pm
Got my new X Lightbee in. Its a bit better than the first generation. Put some trials tires on and got Motomoto's 55T sprocket and chain on. Thanks Kim for cutting the chain to length. Haven't ridden it yet, maybe this weekend.
Wzup Rix! Missed this small bee too much?
Have not posted it here but:
Just got got my modded controller fixed now. We fitted 24F Nuc inside.
Thx team Nucular!
Image

Worth it for me, because it is plug and play, screw on using original mounts without hassling with new mounts and besides, it looks stock even though it is tuned!
This bike is so sick now! Belt drive and 12kW pops wheelies just like that at 50km/h
Tops at around 100km/h did not have time to experiment much with settings yet though.
16s13p 30q (39Ah vs stock 32Ah) pack in original battery casing too!

It will be brutal with 20s
You should test drive one Rick ;)

Yeah Hopefully I will offer kit containing battery and controller
Controller spec:
Maximum power 20 000W
Nominal power 10 000W
Voltage range 20-90V
Phase max 500A
Battery max ~300A

With above battery I can only run 195A so I am limited to about 12kW
And now it is time for the battery
72V 35Ah with 300A BT BMS inside the original battery casing makes the bike look like stock and no need for a battery cover or frame modification like other packs require. It takes a lot of time to fit everything, this build is really tight!
Pack can do 300Amps discharge but I would not recommend pushing it for long as stock surron wiring is not sized for it.

I will make these to the public but in this case they will be 32Ah and 270A discharge as it is extremely time consuming to make it 35Ah. No prices yet.

Charging can be done through the controller using a PSU if you have a NUCular or a rehular 72V li-ion charger if you have another controller.
You can monitor the cell status, do balancing and see some other info about cells and current using your phone
Pics of the inside? How did you fit all that into the original case? What cells?! Amazing!

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Offroader   100 MW

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by Offroader » May 05 2020 6:00pm

sens_dep wrote:
May 05 2020 3:21pm

Pics of the inside? How did you fit all that into the original case? What cells?! Amazing!
I'll fill you in because I tried to get the same service done with my controller.

You can forget about the nuclear controller being installed the way Allex had it done in the post above. They had to design the controller in a way to mount the fets inside the case. Normally the fets are positioned to fit inside the nuclear case, but to mount it inside the sur-ron case they need to lay flat.

When I went and asked about the nuclear controller designer/owner, I got a big "NO" because it was too time consuming. I had a heated discussion with him about this and he would not be convinced even after offering him a good sum of money for it to be done like that. Unless things change in the future, and don't expect them to because they are like 3-5 months behind in getting the controllers out, they will not spend anytime mounting the controller in the Sur-Ron case like that. I guess you can't blame them.

I even asked about having the controller sent to me with the fets mounted differently and I would install it in the sur-ron controller myself, gut the internals, and tap the holes. Nope, not going to happen.

It is too time consuming for them because you have to first remove the original sur-ron controller internals from the sur-ron case that is potted into the case, and then drill and tap a bunch of holes in the sur-ron case, then mount it inside. They did a few like this and then decided it was too time consuming.

What people are doing instead, which I decided against, is just removing the sur-ron controller from the sur-ron case and then just putting the whole nuclear 24 fet controller, case included, inside the sur-ron controller case. A controller case in a controller case. I decided not to do this for a few reasons.

1) It will not cool as quickly if you just mounted it on the bike. Although, many nuclear 24 owners said that it doesn't matter the controller doesn't overheat. Remember, you are mounting a controller case inside a controller case here.

2) It will add extra weight, but may not be that much after you remove the sur-ron internals from the case. The x-controller weighs about 4 lbs 8 oz. So how ever much it weighs after you gut the internals that is how much weight you will be adding to the bike.

3) Removing the sur-ron case completly will allow better air flow across the motor as the sur-ron controller blocks the air-flow from directly blowing through the motor. This will give you an air gap for air to better enter and blow through the motor.

4) And the biggest reason was that I just felt it was stupid to put a case inside a case, just for the stupid sur-ron controller case. To me it was like buying a lamborghini body and putting a Peugeot motor inside.

I installed my nuclear controller without the case and I was worried it would not look good. But you will not really notice any difference between the x-controller and the nuclear controller. They both look good installed. They both are black. Unless you are doing a photo shoot for best looking bike it won't make that much of a difference. The nuclear controller also mounts pretty well and sturdy to the sur-ron, no reason to use the sur-ron case to mount it.

But you may still want to do it that way, its up to you. You really would only want to do this for the looks in my opinion, as that is the only benefit.

Image

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by LightBeeCommuter » May 05 2020 6:52pm

Been getting shitty milage per charge lately, only ~20miles from a full charge. Also when I brake I can hear a clicky or electrical kinda noise like tis tis tis tis. Anyone know what could be up? Also battery starts cutting out at 20%

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by sens_dep » May 05 2020 7:01pm

Offroader wrote:
May 05 2020 6:00pm
sens_dep wrote:
May 05 2020 3:21pm

Pics of the inside? How did you fit all that into the original case? What cells?! Amazing!
I'll fill you in because I tried to get the same service done with my controller.
I meant the battery! (Although this post is super informative, thanks!)

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by Offroader » May 06 2020 9:55am

:lol: Yes I see that now. Part of the post Allex had the nuclear controller in the sur-ron case.

Not a big deal, many people will have to make that decision on how they are going to mount it. There are probably lots of people on the waiting list for the nuclear 24 fet controller.

Just an update on the nuclear 24 controller for those interested as I said I would give my opinion. I had a few rides with it setup and the throttle issues finally worked out so I can comment on the controller.

I really like the nuclear 24 fet, its worth the upgrade if you want extra power and even more fun from the bike. After I worked out my throttle issues the controller works really well now even with the stock battery. They still have plans to give us more control of the throttle, at least with calibrating the voltage curve of the throttle.

You will get much better acceleration with the nuclear, the bike really pulls much better. Even things like climbing stairs, the x-controller seemed to just have enough power to climb stairs holding the throttle fully, with the nuclear controller if I full throttle the bike climbing stairs I will just spin the wheels, it has that much extra power with the stock battery.

It functions nicely on the bike, the key switch will turn the controller on and off, the kickstand switch will stop the motor. You can set up what they do, motor disconnect, throttle disconnect, off, etc. SO it is fully integrated with the sur-ron, which is good because it would suck if the key switch didn't turn it on and off, or the kickstand safety didn't work. I didn't even think about this before ordering and was surprised they actually worked.

The regen works great, depending on how powerful you set it, it will lock up the rear wheel easily at almost any speed. You do have to play it cautious because the max charge amps is like 15 amps with the stock battery, but you can probably safely use 30-50 battery amps for regen. This means you will not have to wear the brakes on your bike as mostly you can always use the regen to quickly stop.

If you do decide to upgrade the battery on the bike the controller will even be more ridiculous in how much extra power you will get. When I first started using the nuclear controller, I was shocked at the extra power it gave me over the x-controller. I can just imagine it with a battery upgrade. I personally do not really care for more power because I will wind up killing myself with it to be honest. I'm 130lbs so stock battery and nuclear 24 fet controller = plenty of power for me.

The nuclear display is very good, very clear and easy to navigate all the settings. Although there are so many settings it will take some time for you to learn everything. Much better display than the adaptto max-e. Actually when I went over to use the adaptto max-e, I was surprised just how bad the max-e display was in comparison.

The controller calibrates very well, just a 30 second calibration and the motor will be running smoothly. I think it is even much better than the adaptto max-e.

Definitely well worth the upgrade if you want more power and regen control, even when using the stock battery.

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by synics » May 06 2020 11:41am

How does that Nuclear compare to the Sabvoton 72200?

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by macribs » May 06 2020 5:44pm

Offroader wrote:
May 03 2020 11:12am

The reason you get less control with the nuclear controller is that the throttle works like this when using phase amps to control the motor. When you twist your throttle it will give you a voltage range. From about 1 volts to 5 volts, the more you twist it the voltage rises from 1 volt to 5 volts.

That voltage range will determine how many phase amps it sends to your motor. Assuming you set your maximum phase amps at 500. You will get a graph like this.

1 volt = 0 phase amps
2 volt = 125 phase amps allowed to be sent to the motor
3 volt = 250 phase amps "
4 volt = 375 phase amps "
5 volt = 500 phase amps "


What happens is your motor can only use so many phase amps depending on your speed. It is something like this:

0-5 MPH 500 phase amps
10 MPH 400 phase amps
20 mph 300 phase amps
30 MPH 200 phase amps
40 MPH 100 phase amps

If you see the the problem here is that at higher speeds your motor only can use 100-200 phase amps even though the controller is allowing it to to use up to 500 phase amps.

This is why you have a dead range in the throttle. At 40 MPH your motor can only use 100 phase amps. At that speeds you lose 80% of your throttle range, only the first 20% of your throttle movement will give you the 100 phase amps.

Its all in the math and controller programming how this works. There is no getting around it unless they revise the programming to change how the throttle works at varying speeds which I recommended to nuclear controller developer.

I have made some changes to the voltage of my throttle to try and lessen this effect which has helped, but nothing will make it right until they revise the programming.

The controller is usable like this, it may not bother you that much, and they may always revise it in the future. So if you or anyone wants this controller then please buy it. I'm just saying that at higher speeds you will be controlling your bike with just the first 25% of movement of the throttle, the rest of the throttle movement will not do a thing. You may be able to control it with just a small amount of throttle range, but it will be twitchy.
Are you sure that it is actually linear that range? I haven't read up on it all on the NUC thread but from the top of my head I can't remember reading that people who tun the 24f nuc have complained about bike being jerky. I am sure there is some clever programming or setting that will smooth out the throttle ramp letting you have really soft and gentle control ie in "walking speed" for technical riding in tight spaces. You might get more luck if you ask in the nuc thread, or try to contact vasili. Have you considered the domino slow twist throttle Rix linked for you? Those might do the trick?


Edited: Sorry I was behind on the "reading up part", I saw you last post after I posted this so I didn't know you worked it all out. Great to hear you are pleased with the 24f. Enjoy your new controller.
Last edited by macribs on May 06 2020 6:00pm, edited 1 time in total.

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macribs   1.21 GW

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by macribs » May 06 2020 5:52pm

Rix wrote:
May 04 2020 4:43pm
efMX Trials Electric Freeride wrote:
May 03 2020 7:07pm
tire fitting on the rim versus fitting into the front fork width are two different things of course.. >2.75 - 3"+ may not fit in the fork depending on how the manufacturer measures tire width..
Thats a good point Natas, I can fit, some forks, due to design, can't fit a a 3.25 tire. Some can. This is something the end user needs to pay attention to when pushing the wider sizes.
Depending on the fork of course the solution would be to to get custom made triple clamps and axle. Ie the fox 40 will not work with just a triple clamp swap but manitou will.

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by Offroader » May 06 2020 11:07pm

macribs wrote:
May 06 2020 5:44pm


Edited: Sorry I was behind on the "reading up part", I saw you last post after I posted this so I didn't know you worked it all out. Great to hear you are pleased with the 24f. Enjoy your new controller.
Just to let you know how I fixed it. If you look at the curve in the picture, that is my throttle curve. You will see how it jumps up to 2.00 volts really fast from about 0.8 volts, then is very flat to about 3.0 volts, then spikes to about 4.6 volts very fast at the end.

Luckily, the nuclear controller allows you to change the minimum and maximum voltage of your throttle.

What I did was change and increased the minimum voltage of my throttle from .8 volts to 2.1 volts, so that that initial spike in the graph is bypassed completely. That initial spike, or just about 5-10% of throttle press, would send 100 phase amps to my motor. This made it extremely twitchy at higher speeds when 100 phase amps is enough get full battery amps. This also made it twitchy at low speeds because just about 5-10% of throttle movement would quickly send 100 phase amps to the motor.

By increasing the voltage to 2.1 volts, this also starts my throttle in the flat curve of the graph, which gives me very good control at low speeds because I have more range in my throttle.

Basically, I fixed most of my throttle issues, but it isn't a perfect fix unless they implement a throttle program that allows you to change the phase amps at different speeds. I am hoping they will offer this, but it isn't a big deal because I get around 60-70% of my throttle range now at higher speeds, much better than the probably 15% I was getting before I fixed it. The nuclear owner did say they are going to make a program that will help with the throttle curve at least.

I would still like 100% of my throttle range at higher speeds, because I like to feel the throttle power my bike at all ranges, just like a gas pedal works. I don't want any dead zones in my throttle.

Throttle voltage curve of bike, .8 volts to 4.6 volts
Image

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