Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Discussions related to motors other than hub motors.
This includes R/C motors, botttom bracket, roller and geared drives.
User avatar
Rix   100 GW

100 GW
Posts: 6962
Joined: Mar 29 2012 11:26am
Location: Fallon NV USA

Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by Rix » Apr 21 2020 9:56am

motomoto wrote:
Apr 21 2020 9:32am
Rix wrote: ↑Apr 19 2020 3:21pm
Got the 64T on and tested, still hit 38-39MPH, almost as fast as my old SurRon with the 55T sprocket which was a solid 39mph on the radar trailer. Thank you field weakening. And this will loop my ass over backwards if hit the throttle from start. Also got my high rise bars on. This was a huge difference, it makes the whole bike feel just a bit bigger.
I get a lot of calls from people asking which sprocket to get. I tell them that I have tried all of them and the 64t is my favorite.
It still does 35+ because the motor isn't loaded and revs more. I took off the 64t once and put on the stocker because I was
going to do some higher speed stuff. The stock 48 made the bike so slow (accelerating) that I hated it. It was such a pig.
Makes sense, I was hitting 38MPH hoc and once I saw the radar trailer blip 39 before displaying 38MPH. I still think the best all around sprocket is your 55t, and any size from 52 to 58 is better than the 45 in my opinion. This 64t is really sweet taking off the though. I will have some real off road riding this weekend to see how it works in the proper environment, which is really hilly stuff.

User avatar
BCTECH   1 kW

1 kW
Posts: 305
Joined: Oct 24 2014 2:04pm

Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by BCTECH » Apr 21 2020 10:36am

Rix wrote:
Apr 19 2020 1:48pm
Offroader wrote:
Apr 19 2020 9:41am
Rix wrote:
Apr 18 2020 10:24pm
Kauaiguy wrote:
Apr 18 2020 3:35pm
I bought the 55t from him but on chain I went with X-ring chain,same stiction as roller chain.Niche X-ring chain from Ebay$37.95 delivered by Fedx.He does make the best sprockets,works of art.
I think the 55T is the best overall performance sprocket for everything. I got the 64 because of the this one area I ride that is massive hill climbs galore.
What are your thoughts on that x-ring chain vs the one you bought? Does it matter? I know nothing about chains.
The biggest difference between X Ring, O Ring, Z Ring, and any other chain with rubber between the link plates and the rollers is they trap chain lube longer, and there for can go longer in between lubing frequencies. Back in my Enduro and Desert racing days, I ran O Ring chains because I needed to for chain and sprocket life. Being that I ride the SurRon way shorter distances, and I am not riding in the same type of crappy conditions as I rode my gassers, I run a non O Ring chain to reduce parasitic drive train loss and its easy to lube and stay on top of. Because I am always on top of my chain maintenance, I don't think an O Ring chain would last any longer than a Non O Ring chain for me given the quality of the chains being equal.
Rix, what is the noise level comparison between the stock Oring vs non Oring you have? I assume the non O-ring chain generates more noise, but how much % more ?
tks

User avatar
Rix   100 GW

100 GW
Posts: 6962
Joined: Mar 29 2012 11:26am
Location: Fallon NV USA

Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by Rix » Apr 21 2020 11:09am

BCTECH wrote:
Apr 21 2020 10:36am
Rix wrote:
Apr 19 2020 1:48pm
Offroader wrote:
Apr 19 2020 9:41am
Rix wrote:
Apr 18 2020 10:24pm


I think the 55T is the best overall performance sprocket for everything. I got the 64 because of the this one area I ride that is massive hill climbs galore.
What are your thoughts on that x-ring chain vs the one you bought? Does it matter? I know nothing about chains.
The biggest difference between X Ring, O Ring, Z Ring, and any other chain with rubber between the link plates and the rollers is they trap chain lube longer, and there for can go longer in between lubing frequencies. Back in my Enduro and Desert racing days, I ran O Ring chains because I needed to for chain and sprocket life. Being that I ride the SurRon way shorter distances, and I am not riding in the same type of crappy conditions as I rode my gassers, I run a non O Ring chain to reduce parasitic drive train loss and its easy to lube and stay on top of. Because I am always on top of my chain maintenance, I don't think an O Ring chain would last any longer than a Non O Ring chain for me given the quality of the chains being equal.
Rix, what is the noise level comparison between the stock Oring vs non Oring you have? I assume the non O-ring chain generates more noise, but how much % more ?
tks
I can't tell any difference in drive train noise between the O Ring and non O Ring. After 15MPH, the wind is louder. If there is a difference noise wise, it would be minuscule.

crazy_dave   10 mW

10 mW
Posts: 22
Joined: Feb 06 2019 7:52am
Location: Upstate NY

Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by crazy_dave » Apr 21 2020 11:55am

Rix wrote:
Apr 21 2020 9:53am
crazy_dave wrote:
Apr 21 2020 8:14am
pipeking wrote:
Apr 20 2020 6:24am
Hey guys, having problems with my sur ron was wondering if anyone else has had similar issues?

Its cutting out, first few times was from a standstill there was nothing, but now its cutting out at full gas and dying... an unplug battery seems to fix it for about 5km then it quits again.

I have an x controller that was upgrade from the original controller, I am thinking about swapping it back on to see if this goes away.

sucks balls cos its sooo good for stealthing round during this lockdown bs
If you have already eliminated the brake and kickstand switches........
Get rid of the (tip-over) sensor. I had the same problem after I in stalled my X-controller. I thought I got my sensor right but that damn thing must be touchy. Kept randomly cutting out, eliminated the (tip-over) and have not had a problem since. Its tight under the controller and hard to get everything back exactly right.

Damn, never-mind, just saw that you removed it already. Long shot but....... You said that you have an older model. Is the motor compatible with the X-controller.
In the picture I posted above, can you see the lean angle sensor and point it out?
Sorry, cant see in that pic. But its under the upper half of the controller. Its held on by a metal bracket with two screws that needs to be remove to access more wire length when installing the X. Its a U bracket (Mine is silver) with a black rubber (grommet) that acts like a shock absorber that holds the tip-over switch. Unplug it and remove it from the bracket. fill the wiring harness with dielectric grease and find a way to cover the open port. Ill see if I can find a pic.
It’s better to apologize than it is to ask permission.

crazy_dave   10 mW

10 mW
Posts: 22
Joined: Feb 06 2019 7:52am
Location: Upstate NY

Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by crazy_dave » Apr 21 2020 1:52pm

Is part of your battery box tipped back or is it just the way it looks in the pic? Anyhow, I cannot see the tip-over switch in your pic but It kinda looks like it hiding behind the tie-down latch. Ill get you a pic of the one I took off my bike when I get home tonight.
Also, you will need to keep the bracket that the TP switch is hooked to as the controller bolts to it. Pay attention to the bracket orientation. if its no backwards the controler holes wont lineup.
Attachments
TOS.jpg
TOS.jpg (140.44 KiB) Viewed 875 times
It’s better to apologize than it is to ask permission.

User avatar
Rix   100 GW

100 GW
Posts: 6962
Joined: Mar 29 2012 11:26am
Location: Fallon NV USA

Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by Rix » Apr 21 2020 2:29pm

crazy_dave wrote:
Apr 21 2020 1:52pm
Is part of your battery box tipped back or is it just the way it looks in the pic? Anyhow, I cannot see the tip-over switch in your pic but It kinda looks like it hiding behind the tie-down latch. Ill get you a pic of the one I took off my bike when I get home tonight.
Also, you will need to keep the bracket that the TP switch is hooked to as the controller bolts to it. Pay attention to the bracket orientation. if its no backwards the controler holes wont lineup.
Its un bolted and tipped back so I could access the harness and connectors. Thanks Dave for pointing this out to me. Much appreciated.

User avatar
pipeking   100 mW

100 mW
Posts: 49
Joined: May 02 2018 3:27pm

Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by pipeking » Apr 21 2020 6:44pm

Ok, so I pulled the bash plate off yesterday and fully unplugged the kickstand sensor (I pulled the stand off but just folded up the sensor and zip tied it up) so I will take it out for another run today and see it it faults again.

I have been riding it like this for well over a 1000 km so I really doubt its that, but will give it a lash...

Adam says it sounds like BMS issue, and to try the 'BMS hack'... I did a little searching and all I could find was page 43? of this thread, is this what Adam would be talking about?

I am reasonably handy with a soldering iron but have no resistors or anything like that, could someone possibly explain what I would need to do here??

Also, if the battery is the issue, would I be better off upgrading the battery and possibly controller too? 72V + BAC 4000 something like that?

User avatar
pipeking   100 mW

100 mW
Posts: 49
Joined: May 02 2018 3:27pm

Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by pipeking » Apr 21 2020 6:44pm

oh, btw the X controller has been fitted for a long time, with zero issues

User avatar
efMX Trials Electric Freeride   1 MW

1 MW
Posts: 1736
Joined: Feb 15 2013 4:43pm

Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by efMX Trials Electric Freeride » Apr 21 2020 6:59pm

some ride & sk8 videos:
metacafe.com/channels/NATAS666DAMIEN
http://www.youtube.com/natas666damien
i have nothing for sale.. :)

User avatar
pipeking   100 mW

100 mW
Posts: 49
Joined: May 02 2018 3:27pm

Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by pipeking » Apr 22 2020 2:57am

haha yea first place I always start, but the thing is you see google is only as good as the person who's driving it.. as in I searched "sur ron problems" and "sur ron cuts out" etc etc of course... this place, and a few other similar sites are usually the best resource.

I think this is what Adam said to try, cheers for that bro I might have to give it a crack...only thing is I'm not sure the display flashed five times before it quit, tbh I don't look at it much, it could have :mrgreen:

User avatar
efMX Trials Electric Freeride   1 MW

1 MW
Posts: 1736
Joined: Feb 15 2013 4:43pm

Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by efMX Trials Electric Freeride » Apr 22 2020 6:31am

since Adam mentioned "bms hack" that's what I searched and Mark was top of results.. not sure if it helps but good luck..

and here's another google search for your interest: "sur-ron BMS bypass" .. (proceed with extreme caution and at your own risk;)..
some ride & sk8 videos:
metacafe.com/channels/NATAS666DAMIEN
http://www.youtube.com/natas666damien
i have nothing for sale.. :)

User avatar
Rix   100 GW

100 GW
Posts: 6962
Joined: Mar 29 2012 11:26am
Location: Fallon NV USA

Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by Rix » Apr 22 2020 10:40am

Hey Allex, I stumbled across this time, it may fit. It will fit the rear, but don't know about fork clearance. https://www.bikebandit.com/tires-tubes/ ... re/p/52773

SlowCo   100 kW

100 kW
Posts: 1471
Joined: Jan 05 2015 5:43pm
Location: The Netherlands

Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by SlowCo » Apr 22 2020 11:02am


User avatar
macribs   1.21 GW

1.21 GW
Posts: 3664
Joined: Jul 22 2014 5:59pm

Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by macribs » Apr 22 2020 1:44pm

Rix wrote:
Apr 21 2020 9:49am


I am running the stock "X" controller....for now. If my gopro battery still holds a charge, I will take it with me and make some hill climbing videos. One area I am looking at comparing was the one I rode with the 55T and 58T. But with those on, I had to help the bike up the climb. I don't think that will be the case with the 64t.
That would be very nice. If you make it up on 64T that will be something. Do you remember top speed on 58T? Seems 64T tops out at 38-39 mph.

smdub   1 mW

1 mW
Posts: 16
Joined: Sep 15 2019 5:51pm
Location: Maryland

Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by smdub » Apr 22 2020 10:03pm

The PO I bought my bike from had already ordered the Luna 60T sprocket and non-o-ring chain combo but not installed yet. When I installed them, it was quite a bit louder than the stock o-ring setup. I now have a SRT o-ring chain to try. (didn't know about the Niche x-ring)

User avatar
Allex   1 GW

1 GW
Posts: 3258
Joined: Dec 05 2011 8:46am
Location: Stockholm, Sweden

Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by Allex » Apr 23 2020 2:34am

Heidenau! Thats right...thx!

User avatar
zrnv   1 µW

1 µW
Posts: 1
Joined: Apr 22 2020 6:07am

Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by zrnv » Apr 23 2020 5:44am

Ttwinsupra wrote:
Apr 12 2020 6:16pm
received_901288840308511.jpegreceived_240145610514270.jpeg

Anyone know who made these seat extensions? I cant get ahold of the person who was selling the bike to ask, and i cant see the makers mark clearly in pictures, i searched Google but couldn't find anything... im pretty sure this will help with fitment for me alot.
In Moscow, Russia
https://www.avito.ru/moskva/zapchasti_i ... 774994612

User avatar
3DTOPO   1 kW

1 kW
Posts: 415
Joined: Apr 11 2018 2:21am

Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by 3DTOPO » Apr 24 2020 2:35am

macribs wrote:
Apr 16 2020 4:22am
@3DTOPO @Offroader

Kudos for the stamina and never cave mentality. This battle have been going on for pages upon pages. I tip my hat to both of you for the rock hard triathlon stamina. ;)
:lol:
macribs wrote:
Apr 16 2020 4:22am
That vid posted about hybrid tires made me wanna try a sticky hybrid, but still with a little bite to it. And tubeliss. That's is a must. Not to mention co2 cartridge and tubleless tire repair kit makes a flat tire a 1 minute fix.
Tubeliss? Or tubeless?

nardcox   10 mW

10 mW
Posts: 28
Joined: Apr 14 2020 7:20am

Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by nardcox » Apr 24 2020 6:54am

3DTOPO wrote:
Apr 24 2020 2:35am
Tubeliss? Or tubeless?
Tubliss probably.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SUpqm8O6kOc&t

User avatar
macribs   1.21 GW

1.21 GW
Posts: 3664
Joined: Jul 22 2014 5:59pm

Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by macribs » Apr 24 2020 10:50am

3DTOPO wrote:
Apr 24 2020 2:35am
macribs wrote:
Apr 16 2020 4:22am
@3DTOPO @Offroader

Kudos for the stamina and never cave mentality. This battle have been going on for pages upon pages. I tip my hat to both of you for the rock hard triathlon stamina. ;)
:lol:
macribs wrote:
Apr 16 2020 4:22am
That vid posted about hybrid tires made me wanna try a sticky hybrid, but still with a little bite to it. And tubeliss. That's is a must. Not to mention co2 cartridge and tubleless tire repair kit makes a flat tire a 1 minute fix.
Tubeliss? Or tubeless?
Tubeliss yes. I run that on several bikes. Tubeliss is perfect and way better then ghetto tubeless, because of the ultra low psi possibilities with the tubeliss. It just locks the tires to the rim, and keep you from banging up your rims on low pressure.

User avatar
Offroader   100 MW

100 MW
Posts: 2604
Joined: Sep 08 2013 9:03pm
Location: USA

Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by Offroader » Apr 24 2020 12:53pm

A while back when I replaced my throttle, I was looking to buy a replacement sur-ron connector, I couldn't find it and nobody knew what they were called. Recently someone actually found it and sent me the link. I then looked up the rest of the connectors.

Here are most of them, I forgot if there is a 2 pin connector. Just in case someone needs to actually replace them.

3 Pin FW-C-3M-B FW-C-3F-B
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/3300504 ... 9R0sB&mp=1

4 Pin FW-C-4M-B FW-C-4F-B
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/3300287 ... BBajx&mp=1

6 Pin FW-C-6M-B FW-C-6F-B
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000120 ... BBajx&mp=1

8 Pin Female Male Waterproof Wire Harness Connector
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/3300475 ... BBajx&mp=1

9 Pin Female Male Waterproof Electric Wire Socket Automotive Plug For Car
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/3300362 ... 9R0sB&mp=1

User avatar
Rix   100 GW

100 GW
Posts: 6962
Joined: Mar 29 2012 11:26am
Location: Fallon NV USA

Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by Rix » Apr 24 2020 1:55pm

macribs wrote:
Apr 21 2020 2:05am

Got the 64T on and tested, still hit 38-39MPH, almost as fast as my old SurRon with the 55T sprocket which was a solid 39mph on the radar trailer. Thank you field weakening. And this will loop my ass over backwards if hit the throttle from start. Also got my high rise bars on. This was a huge difference, it makes the whole bike feel just a bit bigger.



That 64T looks like a perfect match. Have you gotten a chance to try it in the rough and up still climbs? You on stock controller btw?
Going to take it to "Carol Summit" this weekend and put it through the paces and see how it goes. I rode the green SurRon in this area before, but I didn't have the power to climb a couple of hills. With the X and 64T, I am betting I will.
[/quote]


I hope your knee is healing the right way and you are back to old self really soon. Nice to see you are back onto sur ron. That whole Alta situation and how it ended for Alta was sad really. Such a great product ending up on the shelf of can-am. Hopefully they will bring some cool EV's to the market based on the Alta.

Try to make a vid if you manage to climb stuff you previously didn't to try to put that 64T sprocket into context. Are you running the stock controller on the sur ron or have you upgraded?
[/quote]

Hey Mac, put this bike through some hill climbs yesterday. The 64T is staying on. There was this one hill that I couldn't make with either the 55t or 58t. I would get close to the top and have to get off and push the bike over it. Way steep, north of 50 degrees at the top. The 64T bogged down and made it. I got video of it. But I forgot my helmet and gloves. So rather than put together a video and deal with a bunch of comments about riding with no helmet or gear, I decided to scrap the editing of the video. I will get some video with riding gear on.

User avatar
Rix   100 GW

100 GW
Posts: 6962
Joined: Mar 29 2012 11:26am
Location: Fallon NV USA

Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by Rix » Apr 24 2020 1:58pm

Offroader wrote:
Apr 19 2020 6:01pm
Did another ride with my new tire and I'm really like thing Shinko 241 tire. I lowered the PSI to around 10 and really rode the bike hard today. At 10 PSI the tire feels as soft as the Sur-Ron tire at 15PSI. I rode some stairs and I think stairs are the most likely place the tire would spin on the rim and rip out a valve. I think 10 PSI is a non-issue for the tire spinning on the rim.

I also like that the tire doesn't rip up the grass and dirt like the sur-ron tire. I could feel the narrowness of the 19" tire slipping and ripping up the dirt and grass. The 3" shinko 241 feels much more planted in the ground, doesn't feel narrow, and doesn't spin out all that much.

Best part is now I can ride on the street without constantly thinking about how its wearing out my tires. I think one small drawback is that with the lower PSI it seems like the bike may lose a little bit of top speed?



Image

Image
Can you show a picture of your 3.00x18 SR241 and chain clearance? I am thinking about going with a 17x1.20 rim, yes, a 1.20 wide rim and running a 3.00x17 SR241. I know the 3.00 SR241 in 17 and 18 inches are the exact same width, so a picture of your tire and chain clearance will give me a great idea of what I got to work with.

User avatar
Offroader   100 MW

100 MW
Posts: 2604
Joined: Sep 08 2013 9:03pm
Location: USA

Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by Offroader » Apr 24 2020 2:17pm

I could measure it if you want but here is a picture.

Image

User avatar
Rix   100 GW

100 GW
Posts: 6962
Joined: Mar 29 2012 11:26am
Location: Fallon NV USA

Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by Rix » Apr 24 2020 2:49pm

Offroader wrote:
Apr 24 2020 2:17pm
I could measure it if you want but here is a picture.

Image
That is pretty close, just enough room. So my intention of going with a wider tire is not going to happen, 3.00 SR241 it is.

Post Reply