Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Discussions related to motors other than hub motors.
This includes R/C motors, botttom bracket, roller and geared drives.
User avatar
Allex   1 GW

1 GW
Posts: 3258
Joined: Dec 05 2011 8:46am
Location: Stockholm, Sweden

Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by Allex » Apr 17 2020 3:58am

Rix wrote:
Apr 16 2020 6:57pm
Allex wrote:
Apr 16 2020 2:56pm
Rix wrote:
Apr 16 2020 11:12am
Allex wrote:
Apr 15 2020 3:32pm
That Avon is awful looking. NOthing else? Vrubber feels like sr241
She Shinko SR244 2.75-19 is a little bit more road friendly than the SR241, but its definitely rated as a "dual purpose" tire.
Yeah those look familiar as well, one of those two would do then, need to check which of them are lighter
The 244 weighs 7-9 ounces more than the 241 in the 2.75-19 size. I took these measurements on my bathroom scale, its not exact, but the 241 consistently weighed less.
What about:
804 / 805 Adventure Trail
705 Trail Master - this one looks like a better road tire?
255 Trail Pro

User avatar
Rix   100 GW

100 GW
Posts: 6962
Joined: Mar 29 2012 11:26am
Location: Fallon NV USA

Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by Rix » Apr 17 2020 1:11pm

Allex wrote:
Apr 17 2020 3:58am
Rix wrote:
Apr 16 2020 6:57pm
Allex wrote:
Apr 16 2020 2:56pm
Rix wrote:
Apr 16 2020 11:12am


She Shinko SR244 2.75-19 is a little bit more road friendly than the SR241, but its definitely rated as a "dual purpose" tire.
Yeah those look familiar as well, one of those two would do then, need to check which of them are lighter
The 244 weighs 7-9 ounces more than the 241 in the 2.75-19 size. I took these measurements on my bathroom scale, its not exact, but the 241 consistently weighed less.
What about:
804 / 805 Adventure Trail
705 Trail Master - this one looks like a better road tire?
255 Trail Pro
All of these tires in the 19" rims sizes are WAY TOO BIG for the SurRon 19x1.40 rims. These size tires need a 19x1.85" wide rim at the minimum. The 804 trailmaster is the smallest at 100/90-19 and 4 ply, probably weighs 10 pounds. The 255 trail pro is basically a large version of the Shinko SR241 series. Stick with the 2.75-19 SR244 or 241 for the SurRon stock rims.

Ttwinsupra   1 mW

1 mW
Posts: 13
Joined: Mar 12 2020 10:10pm

Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by Ttwinsupra » Apr 17 2020 7:39pm

Ummmmmmm... green wire mod no more??? Soooo i just received my 2020 surron and im a little confused.... so i took it out on its maden voyage and it was quicker than i expected and topped out at exactly 50kph u could tell it has more to give but just stops at 50kph so i decided to do the green wire mod, i looked up the vid and looked at forum, the first weird thing is there was no loop at all it was just a straight wire so it had me 2nd guessing right off the bat, but i cut it anyway since the luna website still says it ships limited aaaannnd now, cut, its exactly the same stops exactly at 50kph and actually feels sliiightly qucker with it put back together but honestly its about exactly the same acceleration and top speed weather i have it cut or connected... ive done a few runs with them both and its really hard to tell any difference at all if there is any at all... but for sure limited to 50kph either way... also there is no difference in coasting between ev mode and sport mode i thought that ev mode didn't use regen? But honestly they both feel pretty coasty.... like im not sure if the regen is working at all...

User avatar
efMX Trials Electric Freeride   1 MW

1 MW
Posts: 1736
Joined: Feb 15 2013 4:43pm

Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by efMX Trials Electric Freeride » Apr 17 2020 7:46pm

where did you get the bike, since your using metric units I'm guessing it's not from luna??
some ride & sk8 videos:
metacafe.com/channels/NATAS666DAMIEN
http://www.youtube.com/natas666damien
i have nothing for sale.. :)

Ttwinsupra   1 mW

1 mW
Posts: 13
Joined: Mar 12 2020 10:10pm

Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by Ttwinsupra » Apr 17 2020 8:03pm

efMX Trials Electric Freeride wrote:
Apr 17 2020 7:46pm
where did you get the bike, since your using metric units I'm guessing it's not from luna??
Its from luna im just going by the screen. I emailed them but haven't gotten a reply yet im just seeing if anyone else here who sees this is expecting this or knows whats goin on at all.
Shouldn't the top speed be faster than exactly 50kph at any angle or is that normal?

User avatar
efMX Trials Electric Freeride   1 MW

1 MW
Posts: 1736
Joined: Feb 15 2013 4:43pm

Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by efMX Trials Electric Freeride » Apr 17 2020 8:22pm

exactly what did you cut or connect, pics??.. 30mph top speed derestricted doesn't sound normal for off-road version.. (how much do you weigh?)
some ride & sk8 videos:
metacafe.com/channels/NATAS666DAMIEN
http://www.youtube.com/natas666damien
i have nothing for sale.. :)

Ttwinsupra   1 mW

1 mW
Posts: 13
Joined: Mar 12 2020 10:10pm

Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by Ttwinsupra » Apr 17 2020 9:54pm

Im a husky dude, but im pretty positive its limited i mean it totally rips up to 50km, im super happy with the acceleration but the second it hits 50km its just stops... exactly at 50 every time even steep downhill it just totally backs out all power.
I cut the only green wire in my harness, its the middle wire in the back row facing the breaker.

User avatar
X-Nitro   1 W

1 W
Posts: 57
Joined: Jan 19 2020 7:18am
Location: Pacific NW

Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by X-Nitro » Apr 17 2020 11:06pm

Ttwinsupra wrote:
Apr 17 2020 9:54pm
its the middle wire in the back row facing the breaker.
The breaker is in front of the battery on the bike, so middle wire front row of batt plug (only green wire)? No that's not the right wire, the valet circuit wire is green with black stripe (on my 2018) & not connected to the plug at all but usually tucked back inside the plastic sheathing.
Last edited by X-Nitro on Apr 17 2020 11:12pm, edited 1 time in total.
:shock: 48v 1500w Custom 1/2 fatty bannaseat hardtail hub streetbike - The modern electric "stingray" mullet bike :bolt: E-Goat Sur-Ron

User avatar
Rix   100 GW

100 GW
Posts: 6962
Joined: Mar 29 2012 11:26am
Location: Fallon NV USA

Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by Rix » Apr 17 2020 11:12pm

Ttwinsupra wrote:
Apr 17 2020 7:39pm
Ummmmmmm... green wire mod no more??? Soooo i just received my 2020 surron and im a little confused.... so i took it out on its maden voyage and it was quicker than i expected and topped out at exactly 50kph u could tell it has more to give but just stops at 50kph so i decided to do the green wire mod, i looked up the vid and looked at forum, the first weird thing is there was no loop at all it was just a straight wire so it had me 2nd guessing right off the bat, but i cut it anyway since the luna website still says it ships limited aaaannnd now, cut, its exactly the same stops exactly at 50kph and actually feels sliiightly qucker with it put back together but honestly its about exactly the same acceleration and top speed weather i have it cut or connected... ive done a few runs with them both and its really hard to tell any difference at all if there is any at all... but for sure limited to 50kph either way... also there is no difference in coasting between ev mode and sport mode i thought that ev mode didn't use regen? But honestly they both feel pretty coasty.... like im not sure if the regen is working at all...
Its a green and black wire, and its under the heat shrink tubing, you have to cut a way a little of the tubing to see it, then, pull it out and there will be enough to cut. I am probably "huskier" than you, at 5'10" 250 with riding gear and my SurRon revs out to 80km/h indicated no problem with quick acceleration.

Ttwinsupra   1 mW

1 mW
Posts: 13
Joined: Mar 12 2020 10:10pm

Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by Ttwinsupra » Apr 17 2020 11:56pm

X-Nitro wrote:
Apr 17 2020 11:06pm
Ttwinsupra wrote:
Apr 17 2020 9:54pm
its the middle wire in the back row facing the breaker.
The breaker is in front of the battery on the bike, so middle wire front row of batt plug (only green wire)? No that's not the right wire, the valet circuit wire is green with black stripe (on my 2018) & not connected to the plug at all but usually tucked back inside the plastic sheathing.
Oh man ya if the wire doesn't actually go to the plug then must have been wrong. My wires are totally different colors, i cut the plastic sheathing waay back and didn't see any other green wires or loops or exra wire, maybe is even deeper, but i seriously cut about 4" of sheathing (almost all of the showing sheathing) i did notice that my wires were totally different colors, except for the one green wire placement, then the one i saw in the DIY but i thought i cut the same one they did.. ill go dig into that harness right now and see if that loop is deeeep in there. Its kinda odd it went up to 50km form factory i did think it would be around 20mph

Update: yes i found it! Thanks for the help guys, it was sooo far back i have no idea why but its all the way up near the actual breaker.. i see two green wire black line loops now... do i cut both? I only remember one in the diy..
Attachments
received_276513546694148.jpeg
received_276513546694148.jpeg (296.76 KiB) Viewed 506 times

User avatar
X-Nitro   1 W

1 W
Posts: 57
Joined: Jan 19 2020 7:18am
Location: Pacific NW

Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by X-Nitro » Apr 18 2020 12:55am

Strange but I think maybe the wire is looped & that is why it's so far back? You can try to see if the wires pull out longer but anyway just cut where you want & enjoy.
:shock: 48v 1500w Custom 1/2 fatty bannaseat hardtail hub streetbike - The modern electric "stingray" mullet bike :bolt: E-Goat Sur-Ron

Ttwinsupra   1 mW

1 mW
Posts: 13
Joined: Mar 12 2020 10:10pm

Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by Ttwinsupra » Apr 18 2020 2:07am

X-Nitro wrote:
Apr 18 2020 12:55am
Strange but I think maybe the wire is looped & that is why it's so far back? You can try to see if the wires pull out longer but anyway just cut where you want & enjoy.
Yep it was double looped way up in there, i made one cut, tested it, and the thing is flyin. Thanks again guys

User avatar
Rix   100 GW

100 GW
Posts: 6962
Joined: Mar 29 2012 11:26am
Location: Fallon NV USA

Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by Rix » Apr 18 2020 3:00pm

Ttwinsupra wrote:
Apr 17 2020 11:56pm
X-Nitro wrote:
Apr 17 2020 11:06pm
Ttwinsupra wrote:
Apr 17 2020 9:54pm
its the middle wire in the back row facing the breaker.
The breaker is in front of the battery on the bike, so middle wire front row of batt plug (only green wire)? No that's not the right wire, the valet circuit wire is green with black stripe (on my 2018) & not connected to the plug at all but usually tucked back inside the plastic sheathing.
Oh man ya if the wire doesn't actually go to the plug then must have been wrong. My wires are totally different colors, i cut the plastic sheathing waay back and didn't see any other green wires or loops or exra wire, maybe is even deeper, but i seriously cut about 4" of sheathing (almost all of the showing sheathing) i did notice that my wires were totally different colors, except for the one green wire placement, then the one i saw in the DIY but i thought i cut the same one they did.. ill go dig into that harness right now and see if that loop is deeeep in there. Its kinda odd it went up to 50km form factory i did think it would be around 20mph

Update: yes i found it! Thanks for the help guys, it was sooo far back i have no idea why but its all the way up near the actual breaker.. i see two green wire black line loops now... do i cut both? I only remember one in the diy..
Its actually the same wire, they are looped around and if you pull on it enough, you will see. Just cut the loop of your choice, and hang on.

User avatar
Rix   100 GW

100 GW
Posts: 6962
Joined: Mar 29 2012 11:26am
Location: Fallon NV USA

Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by Rix » Apr 18 2020 3:03pm

Is there any doubt the best parts made for the SurRon come from Kim Reeg (aka Motomoto) SurRon USA? Thank you Kim for getting this too me. I broke my Killah fork so I will replace that with a Zoch today, get this mounted later tomorrow and try it out.
Attachments
64T.jpg
64T.jpg (401.94 KiB) Viewed 463 times

Kauaiguy   10 mW

10 mW
Posts: 34
Joined: Dec 30 2019 9:47pm

Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by Kauaiguy » Apr 18 2020 3:35pm

I bought the 55t from him but on chain I went with X-ring chain,same stiction as roller chain.Niche X-ring chain from Ebay$37.95 delivered by Fedx.He does make the best sprockets,works of art.

thoroughbred   100 W

100 W
Posts: 142
Joined: Apr 11 2018 6:18pm
Location: virginia

Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by thoroughbred » Apr 18 2020 7:17pm

L1E Euro headlight issue: I left my key on for few hours by mistake. One of the headlight LEDs faded to a barely perceptible glow.

I took the headlight apart to find the top LED is driven at 12.4 volts. The housing is marked "5 W". That is the one that burned out. The bottom LED was driven at less than 4 volts. The 6 small LEDs on the sides of the light are driven at 8 volts. (Obviously there is a small board that drives the separate LEDs in there)

the headlight assembly is for sale (overseas) for 45 pounds, Luna doesn't offer it.

https://surron.co.uk/collections/sur-ro ... 2953234502

The LEDs used look exactly like these 5W units so I bought a pack of five for $5

https://www.ebay.com/itm/High-Power-1W- ... 2749.l2648

I got the old one out with difficulty and a new one soldered in but I chose the wrong color "natural white". The stock Sur Ron bulb is a colder blue color. Time will tell if this light is garbage given the price I paid for it.

How big a light would the DC to Dc converter support? Time to do some night riding...

User avatar
Rix   100 GW

100 GW
Posts: 6962
Joined: Mar 29 2012 11:26am
Location: Fallon NV USA

Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by Rix » Apr 18 2020 10:24pm

Kauaiguy wrote:
Apr 18 2020 3:35pm
I bought the 55t from him but on chain I went with X-ring chain,same stiction as roller chain.Niche X-ring chain from Ebay$37.95 delivered by Fedx.He does make the best sprockets,works of art.
I think the 55T is the best overall performance sprocket for everything. I got the 64 because of the this one area I ride that is massive hill climbs galore.

User avatar
speedmd   100 MW

100 MW
Posts: 2966
Joined: Nov 14 2012 12:16pm
Location: new england

Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by speedmd » Apr 19 2020 7:47am

The LEDs used look exactly like these 5W units so I bought a pack of five for $5
https://www.ebay.com/itm/High-Power-1W- ... 2749.l2648
I got the old one out with difficulty and a new one soldered in but I chose the wrong color "natural white". The stock Sur Ron bulb is a colder blue color. Time will tell if this light is garbage given the price I paid for it.
How big a light would the DC to Dc converter support? Time to do some night riding...
I have used "drivers" for them. That way you control the current that is going to each or each group of them. Something like these.
https://power.sager.com/ldd-700l-271957 ... gKX2fD_BwE

User avatar
Offroader   100 MW

100 MW
Posts: 2604
Joined: Sep 08 2013 9:03pm
Location: USA

Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by Offroader » Apr 19 2020 9:41am

Rix wrote:
Apr 18 2020 10:24pm
Kauaiguy wrote:
Apr 18 2020 3:35pm
I bought the 55t from him but on chain I went with X-ring chain,same stiction as roller chain.Niche X-ring chain from Ebay$37.95 delivered by Fedx.He does make the best sprockets,works of art.
I think the 55T is the best overall performance sprocket for everything. I got the 64 because of the this one area I ride that is massive hill climbs galore.
What are your thoughts on that x-ring chain vs the one you bought? Does it matter? I know nothing about chains.

Kauaiguy   10 mW

10 mW
Posts: 34
Joined: Dec 30 2019 9:47pm

Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by Kauaiguy » Apr 19 2020 9:54am

Regular oring chain has a lot of friction until it breaks in.Xring uses a type of oring in the shape of an X which has less contact and friction.Roller chain and Xring have about the same friction but no need to lube the Xring except for corrosion.Niche chain is made in Canada and is quality chain at a bargain price.

User avatar
Rix   100 GW

100 GW
Posts: 6962
Joined: Mar 29 2012 11:26am
Location: Fallon NV USA

Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by Rix » Apr 19 2020 1:48pm

Offroader wrote:
Apr 19 2020 9:41am
Rix wrote:
Apr 18 2020 10:24pm
Kauaiguy wrote:
Apr 18 2020 3:35pm
I bought the 55t from him but on chain I went with X-ring chain,same stiction as roller chain.Niche X-ring chain from Ebay$37.95 delivered by Fedx.He does make the best sprockets,works of art.
I think the 55T is the best overall performance sprocket for everything. I got the 64 because of the this one area I ride that is massive hill climbs galore.
What are your thoughts on that x-ring chain vs the one you bought? Does it matter? I know nothing about chains.
The biggest difference between X Ring, O Ring, Z Ring, and any other chain with rubber between the link plates and the rollers is they trap chain lube longer, and there for can go longer in between lubing frequencies. Back in my Enduro and Desert racing days, I ran O Ring chains because I needed to for chain and sprocket life. Being that I ride the SurRon way shorter distances, and I am not riding in the same type of crappy conditions as I rode my gassers, I run a non O Ring chain to reduce parasitic drive train loss and its easy to lube and stay on top of. Because I am always on top of my chain maintenance, I don't think an O Ring chain would last any longer than a Non O Ring chain for me given the quality of the chains being equal.

User avatar
Rix   100 GW

100 GW
Posts: 6962
Joined: Mar 29 2012 11:26am
Location: Fallon NV USA

Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by Rix » Apr 19 2020 5:21pm

Got the 64T on and tested, still hit 38-39MPH, almost as fast as my old SurRon with the 55T sprocket which was a solid 39mph on the radar trailer. Thank you field weakening. And this will loop my ass over backwards if hit the throttle from start. Also got my high rise bars on. This was a huge difference, it makes the whole bike feel just a bit bigger.
Attachments
sur.jpg
sur.jpg (341.95 KiB) Viewed 314 times
sur1.jpg
sur1.jpg (328.55 KiB) Viewed 314 times

User avatar
Offroader   100 MW

100 MW
Posts: 2604
Joined: Sep 08 2013 9:03pm
Location: USA

Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by Offroader » Apr 19 2020 5:26pm

Nice, yes the high rise bars was probably the best first upgrade you can do on this bike.

For me I think I would go with the x-chain because I don't like to be bothered lubing the chain, I will deal with more friction than bother spraying down the chain with oil.

Rix, I missed it where you decided to go back to the sur-ron. The last thing I remember is you sold your sur-ron to go with that larger electric dirt bike. I see you are back to a sur-ron again.

User avatar
Rix   100 GW

100 GW
Posts: 6962
Joined: Mar 29 2012 11:26am
Location: Fallon NV USA

Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by Rix » Apr 19 2020 5:31pm

Offroader wrote:
Apr 19 2020 5:26pm
Nice, yes the high rise bars was probably the best first upgrade you can do on this bike.

For me I think I would go with the x-chain because I don't like to be bothered lubing the chain, I will deal with more friction than bother spraying down the chain with oil.

Rix, I missed it where you decided to go back to the sur-ron. The last thing I remember is you sold your sur-ron to go with that larger electric dirt bike. I see you are back to a sur-ron again.
Yah, I sold the green one and bought an Alta EXR right before Alta went under. I loved that bike. Then I had total knee replacement surgery, and was having some issues with the knee, so I sold the Alta because it was getting to the point that I couldn't load it to get it to the trail head to ride. I went back to the SurRon mainly because it is light and I can move it around and handle it without any issues. I almost went wit the Cake OR, but it was more than my Alta, and I could buy 3 SurRons for the price of Cake OR and still have 1k or more left over.

User avatar
Offroader   100 MW

100 MW
Posts: 2604
Joined: Sep 08 2013 9:03pm
Location: USA

Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by Offroader » Apr 19 2020 6:01pm

Did another ride with my new tire and I'm really like thing Shinko 241 tire. I lowered the PSI to around 10 and really rode the bike hard today. At 10 PSI the tire feels as soft as the Sur-Ron tire at 15PSI. I rode some stairs and I think stairs are the most likely place the tire would spin on the rim and rip out a valve. I think 10 PSI is a non-issue for the tire spinning on the rim.

I also like that the tire doesn't rip up the grass and dirt like the sur-ron tire. I could feel the narrowness of the 19" tire slipping and ripping up the dirt and grass. The 3" shinko 241 feels much more planted in the ground, doesn't feel narrow, and doesn't spin out all that much.

Best part is now I can ride on the street without constantly thinking about how its wearing out my tires. I think one small drawback is that with the lower PSI it seems like the bike may lose a little bit of top speed?



Image

Image

Post Reply